Bon Voyage dissatisfaction

[bowrain]

If you have more to say on an old topic, it makes sense to continue the old thread for two reasons:-
1.  All the info about the topic stays in one place rather than being spread all over the board
2.  Anyone who was interested in the subject first time round has tools to see there's something new there - "notify" (if it works) and "show new replies to your posts".

People who see the necromancy warning and still post without a good reason are just annoying.  If you want to get draconian, can you fix it so that people with less than X posts, physically CAN'T re-open a closed thread? 

Well, an old thread doesn't necessarily means closed. I believe nobody can reopen a closed thread except admins and mods.

[J. M. Pescado]

Literally, it means divination by means of the dead (séance, ouija board,) but S&S stories of the '20s and '30s turned it into "raising the dead". There's also a little side-trip where some people thought the word was derived from the Latin word for "black", thus spawning the term "The Black Arts" or "Dark Arts", which pretty much covers anything unwholesome, especially magic that uses parts of dead people (like the hand of glory.)

My favorite classical-mancy is "Chronomancy", the art of divining the future by waiting to see what happens.

[witch]

I'm awesome at that, plus I have 20/20 hindsight.

[Ellatrue]

I just use the "new" button that pops up whenever there's a new post in the thread. If it drops off the front page, then it is dead to me.

I still think you can't expect people to read the FAQ. If you want people to care, then make it shorter and not an actual joke. If it isn't something that would be obvious to a stranger or someone new to the game, then we have no business expecting people to know it. Also with the lurking: pointless. People are either going to say retarded things, or they won't, and no amount of lurking will make someone less annoying.   

The only point in lurking before posting is to try and "fit in." Fitting in is for tools. Baaaah!

[talysman]

I thought the point was *not* to have an easy-to-find, easy-to-understand FAQ, so that you can point-and-laugh?

[witch]

The only point in lurking before posting is to try and "fit in." Fitting in is for tools. Baaaah!

Bollocks. It's sheer politeness. If I walk off the street into someone's home, I don't change the topic of conversation, pinch the best TV chair or attempt to dictate the social conventions of the place. I watch - do these people drink tea or beer? Do they like rugby or litterature^TM? Is that atmosphere casual or formal? Is swearing OK or not?

We have a series of ads here for Sky, a television provider. The ads show a couple of socially moronic guys, without Sky, trying to fit in with various random strangers so they can watch TV. One example I remember, is they've walked into a cosa nostra house and ruffled the Don's toupee. Many of the first time posters remind me of these two blokes.

[seelindarun]

Well, your example actually supports the first part of Ellatrue's point, which was that lurking first helps a person fit in.  If the person in question wants something from the group, obviously it's going to help if they fit in.  Whatever you may think about the value of fitting in, it is the prerogative of any group to refuse aid to those who won't fit in.  Simple.

Ruffling feathers has a social value all its own, but it's frankly moronic to expect that to be a practical way of getting a bunch of people to help you solve a problem.

[witch]

I see your point, though I contend I'm coming from a slightly different slant. It's not about what people can do for me but merely a common courtesy I would extend to any place where I don't set the mores. It is not so much about changing oneself to fit in, but more about sussing out if the place is a good fit. Having said that, I also don't go to any place that is alien to my own mores.

[seelindarun]

I agree with you, and obviously I follow the same practice.  However, I don't assume that everyone who shows up here wants or expects to join in socially.  I think there are many ways to go about that, and causing a stir may serve your cause.  Maybe it depends on personality; for example, spunky types who can give as good as they get might win some respect even if they flout the rules at first.  Fitting in isn't the only way of joining in, if you get my meaning?

I just chose to limit my contribution to the case that came to mind, where a show of courtesy is undoubtedly useful.  I think MATY extracts a notably high price for not fitting in, but I still think it's within the prerogative of this group to do so.  Personally, I like it.  It keeps the noise down. 

[witch]

I'm still agreeing with you, this may be a MATY first. 

Yes, there are exceptions, B, Assmitten, Lorelei, Zazazu and many more have bounced into the place and made themselves known. Some MATYans like this, some don't.

I also like that MATY has high standards, it does keep the noise down and that can only be good from my point of view.

[Lorelei]

Yes, there are exceptions, B, Assmitten, Lorelei, Zazazu and many more have bounced into the place and made themselves known. Some MATYans like this, some don't.

But Lorelei...er, I mean, "I"...used the age-old technique of LURK MOAR before posting. 

ETA: I also read the goddamned FAQ. Kids these days, no manners.

...can you fix it so that people with less than X posts, physically CAN'T re-open a closed thread?

I wouldn't call this draconian, I'd consider it an option the owner of the forum could adopt to encourage n00bz to LURK MOAR, READ THE FAQ, and not commit necromancy. All of which, when not done, annoy long-time posters.

These are not new concepts. I've been online almost since I could reach a keyboard to type. That's roughly twenty years. These rules have been around since the beginning.

Translations:

1. Hang around and get used to the culture of a particular site / board / newsgroup / forum / mailing list before wasting bandwidth by irritating people who were there first.
2. If there are helpful "house rules" or guidelines or posting tips, read them. Someone wrote them because these were issues that irritated people who were there first, or which were deemed helpful to new people.
3. Old topic is old. Old topic may even be so old that everyone is completely pissed off when they have their time wasted by a request to rehash it all over again. If you are new, the first action you should take on a new site / forum / BBS / whatever should NOT be to revive an old thread, horn in on a fight, claim to be an expert, demand anything (freebies, help, WCIF, n00dz, torrents, HALP!, friendship) from people who were there before you.

See also an ancient thread about how this is like behaving like a small child running into a cocktail party (where everyone is peacefully discussing adult topics) and waving a filthy frog around and shouting that everyone should drop what they are doing to look at it. "See Mah FROGGIE!" behavior will get n00bz smacked. Believe it or not. as much as MATY likes MOAR FIGHT!, we tend to prefer juicy new fight to sporking hordes of clueless froggie-wavers.

The only quibble here re: necromancy is that it is sometimes difficult to determine which threads are OK to necromance (e.g., hack and mod threads) and which are not (opinion threads, old fight, old chit-chat). The angry lich guy message could potentially be restricted to areas that always hate necromancy, and a different "are you absolutely sure you want to contribute to this old thread and that there are no other more current or more relevant threads on this topic?" message for threads where necromancy is discouraged but not completely forbidden.

I'd welcome an admin decision to restrict n00bz to lurking for several hours, and then only posting in certain areas for a while. I'd even welcome a quiz that requires knowledge that can only be gained by reading the entire FAQ, with this quiz being a gateway between a horde of n00bz and the old guard.

[witch]

You didn't lurk LONG though, did you? 

For which I am truly grateful, incidentally.

[Zazazu]

Yes, there are exceptions, B, Assmitten, Lorelei, Zazazu and many more have bounced into the place and made themselves known. Some MATYans like this, some don't.

But Lorelei...er, I mean, "I"...used the age-old technique of LURK MOAR before posting. 

ETA: I also read the goddamned FAQ. Kids these days, no manners.

I joined April 3, 2007 at 8:55. I posted April 3, 2007 at 9:01. I still somehow managed not to make too much of an ass out of myself, at least for the first couple of days. I'm also pretty sure I didn't read the FAQ for a good week.

Shockingly, having some level of common courtesy gets you far in life. That's really what the FAQ is...a general guide to terms and how not to look like an annoying tween.

[Emma]

Date Registered:  2005 July 24, 18:16:49
First post on: 2005 July 30, 07:24:12

Wow, I waited a whole 6 days before posting FYI, I haven't ever read the FAQ.

[Milhouse Trixibelle Saltfucker III]

FYI, I haven't ever read the FAQ.

You do realise that saying that will no doubt lead to a "Death to EMMA" style comment, right?
'Cause it seemed obvious to me. 

[Emma]

FYI, I haven't ever read the FAQ.

You do realise that saying that will no doubt lead to a "Death to EMMA" style comment, right?
'Cause it seemed obvious to me. 

Been there, done that, still here to tell the tale.

[Milhouse Trixibelle Saltfucker III]

Come to think of it, anything you say would lead to that result, so it doesn't matter 
(And I read the FAQ! And I also lurked quite a bit, both before and after registering! My lurk-gotten knowledge of this forum, let me show you it  )

(Also, this is the most smilies I've ever used in one post. I really need a life.)

[morriganrant]

The FAQs used to have FAQS in the title. It's title was changed in an attempt to get the wandering noobz to pay attention to it. This has not worked, but it hasn't seemed to make a differance one way or the other, they didn't take a look when it was labeled FAQs either. A Noob who is not going to read the stickies, is just not going to read the stickies, regardless of what the title is.

[Milhouse Trixibelle Saltfucker III]

So I've read...

I have to say that it worked on me. I was sitting there thinking "WTF? I have to know." so I clicked.

[Lorelei]

You didn't lurk LONG though, did you? 

For which I am truly grateful, incidentally.

Eh, read before taking the plunge and registering, read the FAQ first, joined, then read all active and inactive threads dating back 3-4 months. This didn't take too long, but I read fast. Seems like some fora aren't viewable until you register, IIRC. Looks like I took another 11-12 hours to read forums available after registration.

Also, followed a link to a specific thread for a mod, and had no idea there was a homepage for months, as I immediately set up a locked tab for "unread posts".


ETA: A T. My stupid T key is fucking up.

[Milhouse Trixibelle Saltfucker III]

Yeah, I know made-up animals can't be accessed while unregistered (I was confused, once, when Firefox failed to automagically log me in as usual.)

[Zazazu]

Also RetardoLand.

I was forwarded here from TSR for something or other. I want to say comm-skilling, or it could have been abortbedmaking. Then clicked the handy-dandy "Have you destroyed a paysite today?". Funny how TSR led me to downloading their booty.

[Milhouse Trixibelle Saltfucker III]

I got here from SimLogical.
There's a link to here, for the visitor controller, and another link to the right place, at the Kitten-Killing site, which were a mere one paragraph away from each other.
As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the broken link is still there.

[BastDawn]

I think I wound up here in search of hacks that had disappeared from MTS2.  I picked up my hacks and left, but came back a few times for updates, and eventually became interested enough to register so I could post.

[notveryawesome]

That's pretty much how I wound up here, too, BastDawn. I never even knew, until recently, about the fake homepage, because the links from MTS2 led directly to the 'real' index page.