Bon Voyage dissatisfaction

[Ellatrue]

I'd rather people just be themselves, and either they'll do well here, or they won't. If they are retards, they'll get a beating for it.

The house example is a terrible one. A house is a private space, and you need an invitation to be there, so entering a house without being invited is incredibly rude in the first place. A website is a public space, like a park. Is it appropriate to set restrictions on who can use a public park, aside from expecting general politeness and minimum standards of behavior? Expecting people to lurk before posting and brush up on MATY jokes, acronyms, and the general forum culture to the extent you are talking about is like trying to limit access in a public park to your own, private, exclusive party. And personally, I am irritated at how we've gone from poking at actual trolls and actual morons who wouldn't bother with a search, for example, to poking at noobs in general for any excuse at all. It's unreasonable to expect someone to know if a similar joke was posted over 2 years ago in retardoland (the forum warrior thread). You can't expect everyone on the site to have an equal knowledge of the game. If someone JUST BOUGHT TS2, has never been to the BBS, and asks about Bella or other premade characters, is it fair to give them hell for it? No. A reasonable response would be to gently point out that such topics are not much liked here, FYI, instead of just ripping them to shreds. Someone would have had to lurk for over 2 years to know something like the Bella thing, since it's been so long since anyone posted a Bella thread.

Lurking is not necessary for politeness. Being polite is not hard. Lurking is necessary if you want to follow the crowd. "Fitting in" is not necessary to get along, unless the people you are trying to fit in with are being a bunch of close-minded fucktards. And if we want the FAQ to be taken seriously, we have to change it so it isn't a joke. You can't have it both ways. People will pick up the culture over time, if they like the site enough to stick around. In my opinion it's rude to require a certain level of conformity to participate in a public forum that is still fundamentally about the actual game itself, and not about our little forum culture.

[karmalkiss]

You can't expect everyone on the site to have an equal knowledge of the game. If someone JUST BOUGHT TS2, has never been to the BBS, and asks about Bella or other premade characters, is it fair to give them hell for it? No. A reasonable response would be to gently point out that such topics are not much liked here, FYI, instead of just ripping them to shreds. Someone would have had to lurk for over 2 years to know something like the Bella thing, since it's been so long since anyone posted a Bella thread.

Well, if someone just bought TS2, then they're just starting to play the game. By playing the game, you're naturally gonna find out about the Bella thing or the Nervous Subject thing. I mean, it takes a month or two of playing before you realize that there are some things about the game that really suck or absolutely annoy the hell out of you. Most folks don't start immediately downloading hacks the day after purchasing the base game. There is a natural evolution of steps one takes of trying to make the game better. Ususally, the first step is getting on that sorry-ass EA site and doing posts/searches on the BBS. Then you find out about MTS2 and lurk around there for a bit. MTS2 is probably the best jumping off point for some of the more fancier stuff like inSIM and inTEEN. So I guess my point is that yes, folks should know all about the premade characters. They should play and explore their game before going on a "more advanced" site and asking dumbass questions that everyone knew the answer to 4 years ago.

[Jack Rudd]

You can't expect everyone on the site to have an equal knowledge of the game. If someone JUST BOUGHT TS2, has never been to the BBS, and asks about Bella or other premade characters, is it fair to give them hell for it? No. A reasonable response would be to gently point out that such topics are not much liked here, FYI, instead of just ripping them to shreds. Someone would have had to lurk for over 2 years to know something like the Bella thing, since it's been so long since anyone posted a Bella thread.

Well, if someone just bought TS2, then they're just starting to play the game. By playing the game, you're naturally gonna find out about the Bella thing or the Nervous Subject thing. I mean, it takes a month or two of playing before you realize that there are some things about the game that really suck or absolutely annoy the hell out of you. Most folks don't start immediately downloading hacks the day after purchasing the base game. There is a natural evolution of steps one takes of trying to make the game better. Ususally, the first step is getting on that sorry-ass EA site and doing posts/searches on the BBS. Then you find out about MTS2 and lurk around there for a bit. MTS2 is probably the best jumping off point for some of the more fancier stuff like inSIM and inTEEN. So I guess my point is that yes, folks should know all about the premade characters. They should play and explore their game before going on a "more advanced" site and asking dumbass questions that everyone knew the answer to 4 years ago.

And if they don't, they should be prepared for this sort of response.

[J. M. Pescado]

Yeah, I know made-up animals can't be accessed while unregistered (I was confused, once, when Firefox failed to automagically log me in as usual.)

If you're not a MATY member at all, why would you want a made-up animal? Made-Up Animals are thus available only to members, and since there's no reason you would want a made-up animal otherwise, the section is not advertised to nonmembers. Everything of USE is available to everyone.

If someone JUST BOUGHT TS2, has never been to the BBS, and asks about Bella or other premade characters, is it fair to give them hell for it? No. A reasonable response would be to gently point out that such topics are not much liked here, FYI, instead of just ripping them to shreds. Someone would have had to lurk for over 2 years to know something like the Bella thing, since it's been so long since anyone posted a Bella thread.

How does someone like that even *GET* here? And MATY isn't like a public park. It's more like a biker bar. Technically, it's a public venue, but it's not exactly advertised and there are clearly regulars with expected norms of behavior. If you show up as a stranger at a biker bar, then proceed to annoy the regulars, you're asking for a beating.

[Ellatrue]

Google. And I think a lot of people these days go to forums and start downloading stuff for the game pretty quick.

A person playing the game would probably know who the premade characters ARE, for example. That doesn't mean they understand how the game was developed. They might want to "re-unite" the Goths, but have no fucking clue how much that pisses people off at MATY. So they ask what a normal person would consider a reasonable question, and get eaten for breakfast. This is only an example.

I don't think lurking in a situation like that would actually help. People here just need to get their heads out of their asses. If nothing else, at least be honest: the problem often isn't lack of lurking or whatever. It's just that something they posted pissed you off, for whatever reason, and it's stupid to try and justify it as something else entirely.

Does the post pass a "reasonable person" test? Is the post polite? Is the question something a reasonable person, new to the site, might ask? Did they search first? Otherwise, get over yourself. Basic etiquette is one thing. Having an in-depth understanding of this forum's "special culture" is ridiculous to expect of people.

 Lurking is pointless, n00b! Just do a search before asking a question, and be polite. No one can reasonably expect anything else, and this place would be boring as hell if everyone went out of their way to "fit in."

[karmalkiss]

A biker bar?!? I didn't realize leather chaps were worn here....

[bowrain]

I can't even remember how I found this site, or MTS2, or any other site/board I joined. I think it's because most of the times I stumbled across awesome sites from Google

[J. M. Pescado]

Google. And I think a lot of people these days go to forums and start downloading stuff for the game pretty quick.

What exactly do you Google that gets you HERE? The only things you can Google that would get you here are obscure in-jokes and the site name itself. We don't exactly show up at RANDOM.

[talysman]

Google. And I think a lot of people these days go to forums and start downloading stuff for the game pretty quick.

What exactly do you Google that gets you HERE? The only things you can Google that would get you here are obscure in-jokes and the site name itself. We don't exactly show up at RANDOM.

If someone just got The Sims 2, hasn't been on the forums, but heard through word of mouth (in the real world, *GASP!*) that "someone made this thing that turns your sims game into a zombie apocalypse" or something similar, they might find the site (googling "sims 2 zombie apocalypse" brings up MATY at number six.) There might also be a couple searches that would bring up MATY as a false positive, or bring up a site that links to MATY.

Now, me, I came here through a different route. I haven't done any real hacking because I'm not good at it yet, but I've been interested in Sims hacking since the previous version. I forget exactly what I searched for, but I was looking for BHAV info.

[seelindarun]

Ellatrue, you really need to give it up.  Even if you insist that this is a public park, JMP is the groundskeeper if you will.  He plants and grows the trees, which is why people come here in the first place.  He is MEAN.  And he likes it that way.  That's inevitably going to make people feel free to be equally mean.

I feel safe in pointing out the obvious: his example trumps anyone else's.

[Ellatrue]

It isn't about being mean or not so much as trying to impose rules on anarchy, and I'd like to see a healthy perspective about the site and a bit of honesty. Belonging to the site does not make you "more awesome," and our inside jokes are not so amazing that we should expect everyone to know them and learn them. If you want to poke someone, don't try and justify it with something unreasonable. Just admit that you felt like being a dick to a newcomer for fun.

I just think telling someone to LURK MOAR is fucking retarded. THEY don't need to lurk more--YOU need to get over yourself. If the person is a retard, no amount of lurking will help. If they aren't, then you are just trying to enforce a kind of conformity.

[morriganrant]

If you are going to use google as a way they got here to ask their stupid question, couldn't we defend the other side by saying that they could have used that same search engine to actually find the answer to how to reunite the Goths without actually having someone give them the info on a spoon?

JMs using the biker bar as an example makes a lot of sense. Bikers are a fun group of people, if you are their type of person or are at least not objectionable enough to get the shit beaten out of you. Sure you can go in a biker bar and order a drink, but if you get on their nerves, obviously do not belong there or are just an ass, at worst you may be killed on accident\purpose, at best you will be stared at in an intimidating manner until you leave.

I lurked until I decided that this place wasn't objectionable to who I am. Why go barging into a place without knowing just a little about where you are going? Why stick around when you decide that it's not your kind of place?

[jolrei]

Google. And I think a lot of people these days go to forums and start downloading stuff for the game pretty quick.

What exactly do you Google that gets you HERE? The only things you can Google that would get you here are obscure in-jokes and the site name itself. We don't exactly show up at RANDOM.

If I recall, I found MATY via Google.  I was having some sort of problem (I think it was fugly townies and what to do about them) and did a search on a number of keywords.  This got me to a post somewhere which referred to the Base game overpopulation problem.  That post used the expression BFBVFS.  I googled that and got to MATY.  (Supports the "in joke" hypothesis, I suppose)

Within a day or two of finding MATY, I had the director's cut loaded.  I didn't actually post on MATY until about a month after reading the FAQ.

The biker bar analogy seems apt.

[Ryslin]

I forgot how I found this.. I know I found it a long time ago. I didn't feel the desire to log in till whenever the heck it was. I have always enjoyed the biker bar mentality here. It felt down right homey.

Course my distinct desire not to get involved warring with my desire to blather on for no apparent reason often shows in my posts. That is when I post.

[Jelenedra]

I think I followed a link from MST2 to here. It might've been a link from the FOJ's signature, because I remember him from there before I came here.

[Lorelei]

Welcome to MATY!



O hai, n00bz! MATY loves answering the same questions over and over again for people who won't use the Search feature!

Wait...HU SED DAT?!!



MATY's Original Biker Bar-B-Q and Saloon--two wheels good, four wheels bad.

Saddle up! (If you can read the back of my shirt, the bitch fell off, etcetera.)

[Solowren]

I came here for Theo's hair binning SimPE plug-in.

And, for the record, I waited a whole hour before I first posted. However, doing a lot of lurking is my style. So I made up for that.

[Jelenedra]

I lurked for awhile too... I think. Then I came out of the woodwork to BAH at Pescado for No Playable Shoppers. =p