Upgrading RAM

[Orikes]

I need a little help in figuring out exactly what to buy to upgrade the RAM on my computer. I currently have 1GB Dual Channel memory (specifically " Crucial 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory"), and I want to upgrade to at least 2GB, but I'm not quite sure what to go for.

I'm guessing that the 184-Pin is the part I need to make sure is consistent, since that's how it fits into the machine, correct? What about the 400(PC 3200) part? Do I stick to that exactly, or can that be 'upped' as well? From what I understand, dual channel is pretty good, so I want to stick with that. But otherwise than wanting at least 2GB... I don't know what I can change.

Advice?

[KatEnigma]

You have to get the same type so PC 3200 is the important part. If you have Dual Channel, you MUST buy dual channel again.  I like OCZ's RAM and it tends to be less expensive than others, but still quality RAM (and they have good customer service) How many slots do you have, 2 or 4? If you have 4, you can buy another 2x512 set.  If you only have 2, then you'll need a 2x1024 set.

[Magicmoon]

I build and repair computers for a living.

First you need the motherboard manual. It's that little booklet that you only get if you bought your motherboard separately and installed it yourself. So for most people, you need to look up the info on the net.

All motherboards have a maximum capacity for RAM. Each motherboard also has a different number of slots available. Some have 2, others have 3 or 4. Since you are running dual channel, I am guessing you have 2 or 4 slots.

Each slot can only hold a maximum RAM amount. If the motherboard has 4 slots with a maximum capacity of 4 GB, then each slot can hold 1 GB. Some motherboards only allow a maximum of 512 MB in each slot, some older ones, only 256. It is very important to find out this info about your motherboard.

The manual will also tell you your bus speed. Thats where the PC 3200 (400) type numbers come in. You can buy any speed of RAM and as long as it is the proper RAM type, and it will work. BUT you should always buy RAM that is equal or greater in speed than the bus. If you buy a slower one than your motherboard can handle, then the RAM will work but it won't be as fast as it should be. If you buy RAM that is faster than your bus speed, then it will work at the same speed as your bus.

For example, I had a computer that had a 2600 bus that I placed PC 3200 RAM in. It worked fine. But the computer will only run it at the 2600 speed because that is all it can handle. Why would you buy a faster one then? Because you can always pull your memory later when you are done with this computer and put it in another. If on the other hand I had a computer with a 3200 bus and I placed 2600 RAM in it, it will still work but it will only run at 2600 which would be slower than your computer allows.

For dual channel, you must be using 2 slots, and the amount of memory in each slot must be the same, (for every slot pair) and should have the same bus speed as each other. You can use other combinations, and it will work, but it will no longer run as dual channel, so I highly recommend that your memory modules match one another. If you have 4 memory slots, you could put in 2 pieces of 512 and 2 pieces of 1 GB for a total of 3 GB. That's assuming that your motherboard's slots will actually accept 1 GB memory modules. If you motherboard will only accept 512 MB in each slot, then you cannot place 1 GB pieces in there or it won't work.

So currently you have 2 slots filled (you may have more slots but they are just empty). You can find this info in the manual or opening the computer and counting the slots. Each filled slot currently is holding 512 MB, which gives you a total of 1 GB. Now, if you have 2 more slots available, you can just buy 2 more memory modules of 512 MB and add them to the 2 empty slots, giving you a total of 2 GB. I have read that it is better to use two 1 GB modules rather than 4 512 MB modules because it will run faster. I have not been able to confirm this. It may be one of those things that shows up with testing equipment, but is not noticeable when actually running the computer. I recommend whichever option costs you the least.

The important info about your particular RAM is 184-Pin DDR SDRAM . You must buy DDR SDRAM or it won't work at all even if the number of pins is correct. The 184 pin is a standard size so that is usually something that you don't have to worry about.

You mentioned that you currently have Crucial brand memory. Brand name is not important, however, how they obtain their memory modules IS important. Some companies pull memory from other computers and reuse them (usually from computers leased to businesses). Those that don't will usually announce it on their site because they are proud of it. The memory usually costs slightly more because it is actually new.

Crucial memory is nice because it has a lifetime warranty on it and they always use New memory rather than "pulls". Tigerdirect.com also prides itself on only selling new memory, and they have several brands to choose from. How can Crucial afford a lifetime warranty? Because usually your memory will become obsolete long before it actually goes bad. I have replaced very few bad memory modules in my lifetime. Those that "went bad" usually did so as a result of lightning strikes and/or repeated power outages, and is why it is recommended to disconnect your computer from the power source during a lightning storm. Surge protectors can only protect against normal surges that come periodically from the power company. They cannot protect against lightning strikes.

By now you should be thoroughly confused. If so, my job here is done.

Actually, once you locate the motherboard manual, I'll be happy to tell you EXACTLY what to buy as I'm sure that I probably left something out that I should have told you.

ETA: One thing I forgot. Some motherboards use the first 2 slots together to achieve dual channel (slots 0 and 1 for the first pair, then slots 2 & 3 for the 2nd pair) , and others use every other slot (0 and 2, then slots 1 & 3). Again, your motherboard manual will tell you which ones to use. Of course if you have 4 slots filled with exactly the same thing, then you can't get it wrong.

[Orikes]

I was pretty sure I only had two slots for memory, but the manual on the Asus site says otherwise. Here's the info on my mobo from Asus: http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=207&l4=0&model=596&modelmenu=1

(I think that link will work. Either way, it's an ASUS mother board: A8N5X)

The manual says I have four slots that can have up to 1GB 'unbuffered ECC or non-ECC DDR DIMMs' using the proscribed memory configurations.

Does this mean I can have 2 sets of dual channel ram totally 4GB?

EDIT: I'm at work right now, so I can't be 100% sure I have the right manual. I can hopefully dig that up tonight or tomorrow during the day. The computer was new last year and built from parts bought on New Egg which I had a friend put together for me.

[KatEnigma]

Yes, you can put 2 2x1024 sets in. 

[J. M. Pescado]

You can put 4 GB, but no program is allowed to use more than 2 GB even with the latest Windoze patches. The remaining 2 GB is used by Windoze, because Windoze always consumes half of your RAM at minimum, no matter how much you have.

[Orikes]

So does that mean I shouldn't bother getting 4GB? Or would that actually allow other programs and games to have access to 2GB, whereas less will mean the other stuff will have access to less?

Ultimately, if I can, I'll probably go with a matching set of the Crucial 2x512MB sticks to match what I have. That'll raise it to 2GB, which should be fine for now. I also know that the RAM is about $20 cheaper now than it was when I bought eighteen months ago.

[KatEnigma]

If you're running XP, 4 GB is more than you need unless you're doing a lot of video editing. 

If you're running Vista, go for the 4 GB. 

[Magicmoon]

The manual says I have four slots that can have up to 1GB 'unbuffered ECC or non-ECC DDR DIMMs' using the proscribed memory configurations.

Does this mean I can have 2 sets of dual channel ram totally 4GB?

I looked at the specifications and as pointed out by katenigma, assuming that this is actually your motherboard, yes. Pescado is also right in the fact that that much isn't really needed.

I'm curious as to why you feel the need for so much memory. If it is because you believe that Sims will run faster, then you are barking up the wrong tree. While you will see slight improvement in speed, you are much better off spending your money on a high quality video card with as much memory on the card as you can afford. How much memory does your video card have?

For example, my personal computer is using 1 GB RAM with a Radeon 9550 (256 MB RAM). Another computer in my household with the same processor speed is running the same configuration except that the video card has 512 MB RAM on it. Sims runs smoother on the 2nd computer. This 2nd computer was given the better video card because the operator runs many video intensive programs such as Half Life 2 and Oblivion. On the other hand, Sims 2 is my most video intensive program.

Whatever you decide, I'll help you get the right thing.

Also as katenigma pointed out, Vista is a bloated memory hog and will require more memory than XP.

[J. M. Pescado]

So does that mean I shouldn't bother getting 4GB? Or would that actually allow other programs and games to have access to 2GB, whereas less will mean the other stuff will have access to less?

Other programs and games would not enable you to have access to more than your 4 GB, because Windoze takes up the other 2 already. How much memory you need depends on how much CC crap you have. By default, a standard TS2 loadout (no CC) appears to load about 500 MBs of crap. This means that having 2 GBs free (because you have 4) will enable you to load another 1.5 GBs without a real performance hit. If you had only 2 GBs, you'd only be able to load 500 MBs of crap, as Windoze would take up half your RAM, leaving you with about 500 MB MBs free after TS2. If you had only 1 GB, you would not be able to load anything other than TS2, and no CC other than perhaps overrides, and it would struggle. If you had even less, TS2 itself would thrash, since you'd have less than the minimum 500 MBs of RAM needed to load an empty install.

[Magicmoon]

If you had only 1 GB, you would not be able to load anything other than TS2, and no CC other than perhaps overrides, and it would struggle. If you had even less, TS2 itself would thrash, since you'd have less than the minimum 500 MB of RAM needed to load an empty install.

At the risk of having my lips ripped from my face, I'm going to have to disagree a little. I have 1 GB RAM. At one time I had 10 GB of CC and was definitely getting a performance hit. I pared this down to 4 GB and I am only getting a slight hit now as compared to a clean game. The CC I have now adds approx 4 minutes to loading time whereas I was getting a 20 min loading time when I had 10 GB CC. CC tends to affect loading time more than it does game performance.

Is it possible that the type of CC has more to do with it than the amount of CC? For example, I would expect mods to cause more slowdowns than clothing since mods must keep running and checking things to make their decisions. If I load in 200 dresses, all 200 do not have to stay in the memory at all times. Just the one that your Sim is wearing needs to stay in the memory. (Otherwise there wouldn't be a load time when you go into CAS or attempt to buy new clothes) But the mod has to keep asking, "does this Sim need to pee? Is it time to woohoo? Should I bring a friend home on the bus? Even when the answer to the question is "no", it still had to use memory to do the checks. Since these checks are always going on in the background, unlike the dress, they have to stay in the active memory.

The biggest slowdown I have at the moment is when it rains or snows. It is only slightly more sluggish with the CC in place than without it. On lots with very few items (CC or Maxis) and few Sims, there is no slowdown at all compared to a clean game. Using Jordi's more Sims mod I have some lots that have 2 adults and 7 kids. These lots absolutely DO take a performance hit, especially when several visitors are also there. The computer with the higher memory on the video card performs better during bad weather although it still takes a hit when too many Sims are on the lot, which makes sense since each Sim has to have the checks run on them.

One difference that I can see is how much crap is on any given lot. I tend to make lots with just the items that the Sims need. My daughter crams as much stuff into a lot as she can. Her game is always more sluggish than mine although she plays her game on my computer so the configuration and CC is the same.

[J. M. Pescado]

Is it possible that the type of CC has more to do with it than the amount of CC? For example, I would expect mods to cause more slowdowns than clothing since mods must keep running and checking things to make their decisions. If I load in 200 dresses, all 200 do not have to stay in the memory at all times. Just the one that your Sim is wearing needs to stay in the memory. (Otherwise there wouldn't be a load time when you go into CAS or attempt to buy new clothes) But the mod has to keep asking, "does this Sim need to pee? Is it time to woohoo? Should I bring a friend home on the bus? Even when the answer to the question is "no", it still had to use memory to do the checks. Since these checks are always going on in the background, unlike the dress, they have to stay in the active memory.

The exact performance hit imposed by any given item depends on your computer and the item. Some items may not have any visible hit, others, even a single item inexplicably slows your computer to a crawl, like those damn ladybug houses.

[Magicmoon]

I think the ladybug houses make such a big impact because of the constant animation. I downloaded more sensible ladybugs from Simwardrobe. Now they only swarm occasionally during the day and never at night although it works the same as it always did. That simple mod stopped a ton of sluggishness.

[ZiggyDoodle]

There is no such object at Paladin's Place.  I think you mean Jfade's Sensible Ladybug Swarms at djssims.com/

[B]

So does that mean I shouldn't bother getting 4GB?

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but if you don't have a 64 bit OS it's kind of pointless to have 4 GB of RAM.  32 bit versions of windows can only map to 4 gigs of address space, and since things like your video card need to be mapped somewhere, you generally will only have about 3-3.25 GB of memory for the OS to use.  Supposedly, you're supposed to be able to map past 4 gigs on Vista Ultimate, but I still haven't been able to (I've got 8 gigs for my Linux, but Ultimate only sees 3 gigs). 

[Orikes]

I'm curious as to why you feel the need for so much memory. If it is because you believe that Sims will run faster, then you are barking up the wrong tree. While you will see slight improvement in speed, you are much better off spending your money on a high quality video card with as much memory on the card as you can afford. How much memory does your video card have?

Honestly, I wasn't aiming to get 4GB of RAM. It was more that I was seriously considering upgrading to 2GB, but with the comments that were made, I was curious.

As for why RAM over video card, I figured the ram would actually be a cheaper upgrade than the video card. The card I have isn't half bad, though I have had problems with the BSOD since it is Nvidia. Hopefully the new beta drivers will help with that. There was also the cc considerations, though I'm seeing different opinions on that here as well.

Either way, my video card is:      eVGA Geforce 6800GS 256MB PCI Express x16

If I have four slots for ram and can add in another set of dual channel ram, I can double my ram for about $80. I'm guessing it would cost me close to $200 to really make upgrading my video card worth it.

[Magicmoon]

There is no such object at Paladin's Place.  I think you mean Jfade's Sensible Ladybug Swarms at djssims.com/

You are absolutely correct.

If I have four slots for ram and can add in another set of dual channel ram, I can double my ram for about $80. I'm guessing it would cost me close to $200 to really make upgrading my video card worth it.

You are right. Everyone here has posted a wealth of good info, and although on the surface some things appear to contradict other things, they are all valid points.

Do some experimenting. First upgrade that video driver. Then check the amount of CC that you have now. Are there frequent slowdowns at the moment? If so, divide the CC in half. How about now? Keep doing it until you don't see a difference between a clean game and the one with CC. (Not counting load times as load times will always be longer with CC no matter how much updating you do). This will give you a ballpark figure on how much CC you can have in your game at the moment, although as mentioned earlier, not all CC is equal.

If you find out that removing CC makes a huge impact on the speed of gameplay, then go for the additional RAM. If you find that there is very little difference, then you should probably save up the money for a higher end video card, although your current card is really not out of date yet.

I know this won't be easy for you to decide, but there is enough info on this page for you to at least make a well informed decision. Good luck.

[Orikes]

Thanks for all the advice.

[KatEnigma]

This may not apply to you, since you obviously have at least an AMD 64/FX, if not an X2, but sometimes the problem isn't  video card or RAM.  The game relies heavily on the processor, as well. It's basically a game of what element is the one holding you back.  If it's the processor, no amount of RAM or the shiniest newest video card would do much to improve your gameplay. (The new card will make it look very pretty, but won't necessarily make the game faster)

Then too, the biggest thing that made a difference to my game was switching to the 10,000 RPM hard drive. TS2 reads/writes to the disk a LOT. Oh, and the cheat "vsync off" will gain you about 10 FPS, too, but that makes more difference on a system that's struggling with the game itself, more than one that's just bogged down with CC (only 1.3 GB right now- I've pared down)

[Orikes]

I'm not really experiencing any major problems (other than the Nvidia BSOD, which the beta drivers may have fixed). The game is often a little slow on first starting the game up - not the load screen times, but when I actually first enter a lot. Also, I do get a decent freeze when certain events happen (like frostbite or heat stroke). It's nothing that's a deal breaker for me, but it would be nice if I could get it to run a little smoother.

Here's the specs of what's in the machine:
 - ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Motherboard
 - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 2.0GHz Socket 939 Processor
 - Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
 - 1GB Crucial (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel
 - eVGA 256-P2-N389-AX Geforce 6800GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16
 - BenQ 16X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe
 - COOLMAX "EZ Wire" CU-400T ATX 400W Power Supply

(I included the last two bits of info on the dvd player and the power supply, just in case) It's running WinXP. Home Edition. Service Pack 2.

[Magicmoon]

I think everyone, including those running without any CC have the freezes when Sims change their skin tone due to frostbite or whatever.

In my case, I had a pretty big freeze for each skin tone the first time it happened. It was more like a long pause when that same skin tone froze again later.

You really have decent stats on your computer. Nothing really sticks out as a problem. Along with what katenigma said, an overfull hard drive can also cause slowdowns because it needs a pretty good size area to keep writing to for the game's cache. But with a 160 GB hard drive, that shouldn't be a problem unless you put a bunch of stuff on it. Also be sure that your hard drive doesn't need defragging.

[Orikes]

I think my harddrive is getting close to 1/2 full. This surprised me, because until this computer, I was surviving on a 30GB hard drive. I'm guessing it's the images, since I've got all my photographs on it, as well as music and three gazillion screencaps from Sims2. (I end up with upwards of 1000 images for each episode of my legacy.. I'm a little obsessive with the picture taking).

I also try and remember to do maintenance on a mostly monthly basis. I know I did a disk cleanup and a defrag a few weeks ago, so that stuff isn't too much of a worry.

I've been pretty happy with the machine, but when I'd always wished I'd gotten a little more ram when I got it.