Question about SimPE and Sim altering

[Aggie]

I know, I know, I should ask this at the SimPE forum, but I can never seem to get questions answered there at all. I was hoping the smart folks here would be able to help me out.

I was wondering if it were possible to alter the appearance and DNA of an existing Sim by using the DNA info for a Sim that hasn't been installed in your game. I'm fairly certain the DNA can be changed easily enough (and I know how to do this), but I'm wondering how it would be possible to alter a Sim's physical appearance without using Sim Surgery (if it even is possible). Any ideas?

[Gwill]

Theo has an alternate sim surgery tool that does exactly that.
It is of course possible to do it manually as well, but I don't have a tutorial handy at the moment.

[Aggie]

Does this alternate Sim Surgery tool require there to be a physical copy of the Sim you want the existing one to look like? Because I'm wondering if it's possible to change their appearance without having to install an actual Sim to clone their appearance from.

ETA: I read Theo's thread and it appears his mod does require a physical copy of the Sim template. Maybe he'd be the one to ask about something like this, though.

[Gwill]

It doesn't need a sim character, just a sim package.  You can use a bodyshop packaged sim as the template.
I'll see if I can find some links to genetic editing over at MTS2; I know I've seen some.

Edit: This was all I could find right now: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=162648
I'll look some more later.

[Aggie]

Ahhh, I see. But you do know what I'm asking, right? I'm wondering if it's possible to alter an NPC's appearance as well as DNA with only the DNA information. I'm guessing this is a no?

Example:

Person A has an NPC they wish to change: Kaylynn. Person A then spots a Sim that they'd rather Kaylynn look like (let's say Betty) and they request the creator to post Betty's DNA info. The creator does so. Can person A manually change Kaylynn's physical appearance without a package file using only the DNA info that looks something like this:

c7cfe4ed-4a5a-4b11-178c-fbb586779ef3
brow,mouth,eyes,
00000002-0000-0000-0000-000000000000
00000001-0000-0000-0000-000000000000
00000001-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

[J. M. Pescado]

You'd need to replace the LXNR as well, which is what contains the facial structure. The SDNA only holds inheritance information, so unless you were changing hair/eyes/skintone, you wouldn't need to touch it.

[Aggie]

Is it possible to replace the LXNR (  ) using that information?

If anyone's wondering why the hell I'm asking a question like this, I was thinking that if there were a way to 'fix' an updated Self Sim simply by editing the one currently in the game by using SimPE to change the DNA and appearance without having to install another package file.

[J. M. Pescado]

Yes, just swap the LXNR in the character file (not nXXX.package), and then change appearance. The new face should immediately manifest.

[Aggie]

Please pardon my unawesomeness, but how do I swap the file?  I've opened up the character file in SimPE, and I've selected the LXNR file. What view would I go to: Package, resource, wrapper, Plugin view or Hex?

[J. M. Pescado]

Rightclick, "replace", with one that you exported? I dunno if Newfangled SimPE can. I only use Ye Olde SimPE.

[Aggie]

Is that possible to do if you don't have a package file or an exported file at all? Remember, I'm asking if it's possible to change their physical appearance using only the five lines of DNA I displayed earlier.

I'm starting to think it's not possible to do this without having to install a package file. I know the inherited DNA can be altered, but the physical appearance may not be able to. I'm assuming merely going into the game and having said Sim use Change Appearance on a mirror wouldn't do squat. *goes to confirm*

ETA: As expected, using the mirror will only make the eye, hair and skintone change, not the facial features.

[Gwill]

The facial features, such as the shape of the nose and the size of the chin, are in the LxNR resource.  There isn't anything very tangible to edit in that resource (nothing at all in plugin view in fact), just a lot of HEX.  So although you can mess with the numbers, it would be pretty much impossible to find out exactly what you are changing.
So yes, you need someting to copy from.

[BastDawn]

The attached text file is a post by Pescado from this site (pretty close to what he's saying here) and a post from someone named Nukael at MTS2.  I searched around for this information months ago, and I've use this file as a guidline ever since when I need to to edit a sim.  If you need screenshots, I think Nukael had a bunch to visually explain the process, but it isn't hard.

[Aggie]

Thanks for the .txt file, BastDawn. That's going to be very helpful.

And thank you for your assistance as well, Gwill. That pretty much kills my hope that I could change the appearance of an NPC to a Sim that I only had the DNA info for, but I knew that was most likely anyways. I was hoping to avoid having to create unnecessary characters in the game just to change the appearance of one already there, but it looks like there may be no avoiding that at all.

On a similar (but not completely related) note, I'm thinking...I do know that I could change the inherited DNA of a Sim by using those DNA lines of info. I wonder if I could copy the DNA of a female Sim from one 'hood, replace the genetics of an NPC with it in a different one and then impregnate said NPC with a clone of itself and come up with a perfect copy of said female Sim. I can't see how this procedure would be useful in any way at all, but it'd be interesting to see if I could do it. 

[Sleepycat]

Thanks for the .txt file, BastDawn. That's going to be very helpful.

And thank you for your assistance as well, Gwill. That pretty much kills my hope that I could change the appearance of an NPC to a Sim that I only had the DNA info for, but I knew that was most likely anyways. I was hoping to avoid having to create unnecessary characters in the game just to change the appearance of one already there, but it looks like there may be no avoiding that at all.

you could make a neighborhood just for this kind of thing, put the characters in that hood. then you could get the info from them in SimPE and then open your real hood and do what you want to do with that info.

[BastDawn]

Yes, you use a junk 'hood to create the donor sim and trash it when you're done.  No muss, no fuss, no problem.   

[Aggie]

Yup, that sounds like the best plan. Thanks everyone.

[Zeljka]

Rightclick, "replace", with one that you exported? I dunno if Newfangled SimPE can. I only use Ye Olde SimPE.

Call me stupid and unawesome but, say for example:
I had someone's self Sim in the game (we'll say Denimjo's)
She updates her Sim and re-posts it for upload, but I already have her in my game and she's doing great so I don't want to dowload another and start all over.
I ask her to export her new Sim's LXNR and use that file to replace the one in my current 'Denimjo'.
Couldn't it work?

Or am I completely misunderstanding and simplifying?

I do realize the question was 'with DNA only' and the answer is 'no', but now I'm curious if it could be done without creating new Sims.
Downloading an LXNR to replace a Sim would be more appealing than downloading the whole thing.

*shrugs

[J. M. Pescado]

Denimjo's DNA is very unlikely to have changed, so all you'd need to do is replace th LXNR. However, if Denimjo has any spawn, all those spawn will be the spawn of Denimjo 1.0. You will need to then "rebreed" these spawn by extracting the new Denimjo, and whoever you bred Denimjo with, into CAS templates, and create them in a seperate neighborhood, then using CAS, generate the spawn (only faces matter, personality irrelevant), extract the LXNRs from the spawn in the junk hood, and put them LXNRs BACK into the main hood versions. The procedure gets increasingly involved for more generations of the affected sim, like with, say, Brynnes.

[Zeljka]

Glad to hear no spawn = no problem

heh heh, it was actually Brynne I was thinking of because there have been many versions of her and I have one of the earliest because it was compatible with EPs I had.
Haven't actually bred her though, so all's good.

(I may be the only person who finds playing SelfSims of people I know well through the community too weird.)

[Gwill]

Zeljka > That's exactly the kind of thing Theo's alternate sim surgery is perfect for.

[flowerchile]

Glad to hear no spawn = no problem

heh heh, it was actually Brynne I was thinking of because there have been many versions of her and I have one of the earliest because it was compatible with EPs I had.
Haven't actually bred her though, so all's good.

(I may be the only person who finds playing SelfSims of people I know well through the community too weird.)

I find it weird playing my self self-Sim, but others I can live with, as I don't really play as such.  Begs the question though, where is a Sim-Zel hidin'?  Hmm? 
*flowerchile neeeeeeeeeeeeeds a Zel  

[Zeljka]

Zeljka > That's exactly the kind of thing Theo's alternate sim surgery is perfect for.

yes, I have the plug in -but thanks for mentioning it in case I didn't
(-oops, did I say thanks here? I meant... baaaaa )

I actually used it to replace an entire neighbourhood's downtownies ( seemed like a good idea at the time)
Using the plug-in to replace them was the easy part, fixing up wardrobes for each was more than a little tedious and even after several hours of work, I occasionally find townies turning bald and nekkid instead of spinning into swimwear on a community lot. It's scary because even their eye colour goes blank...

I know, I know, he didn't design the tool with replacing whole ugly neighbourhoods in mind, but it was so easy I had to try...heh heh



flower, I've tried so many times to make a self-sim that it's not even funny, I suck at making sims.
Val made me one and though the features are perfect, as a whole, it just doesn't look like me !? I tweaked it a bit to look more like me and it spawned Q-tip shaped offspring with eyes that rested on shelves...

*fears for future real-world children     

Will give it another go sometime and let you know how I do... 

[flowerchile]

   Yay!  Don't take too long, I ain't getting any younger ya know 
Oh, and I wasn't planning on breeding you, so never fear, your offspring will never see the light of day 


I hate, hate, hate, HATE these emoties