HUZZAH! Banned from Rentech.com!

[Sandilou]

They say seeing is believing; I had my eyes opened wide when I saw just how much Ritalin can alter a child's behaviour;

We had a 6 year old kiddie who literally came into school at 9.00 and by 9.05 was throwing chairs at anyone who walked through the hall, then tried to climb up the pipework onto a low level roof.  His eyes were moving around wildly and he was incapable of speaking to us because he couldn't focus.  He was moving around constantly and had to be talked down by his parents and taken home.

After the subsequent exclusion from school, his parents felt they had no choice but to give him his prescribed Ritalin.  They were worried about side effects so wouldn't give it on non-school days. (As it takes a few hours to kick in, Monday mornings were always potentially eventful).  Later in the week, we were amazed to watch the same child, eyes heavily glazed from medication, take the lead in organising and playing a circle game with most of the members of his class.  It truly was a camera moment!

Off medication, that child returned to his usual persona.  He was hyperactive; I honestly believed that if he changed his diet, it would have helped considerably. because he consumed a high number of additives in his daily diet, which seemed to be made up predominantly of fast, snack foods.  Bit ironic when you consider the parents concerns regarding the long term effects of Ritalin.

[J. M. Pescado]

Why on earth didn't I think of that astoundingly wonderful idea before? I'll just ignore all of my problems and they'll go away!

You'd be surprised how well this works. Humans are equipped with boundless capacity for repression and denial for a reason.

Unfortunately, JM, it doesn't work that way. Like most problems with a physical cause - even if you are talking mechanical objects and not living things - ignoring a mental problem does not make it easier to deal with, as the problem will continue to worsen, and the person often ends up self-medicating with substances or behaviours that compound the problem still further. Furthermore, some mental issues (schizophrenia comes immediately to mind) when left untreated can lead to irreversable brain damage.

If at first it doesn't work, force it. If it breaks, it needed to be replaced anyway. More importantly, "self-medicating" is not IGNORING the issue. Didn't I mention to *IGNORE* it? Pretend that it does not exist. Ignore. Deny. Repress. Got it?

I suspect that what's missing from JM's analysis is that wetware can be misconfigured and damaged just like any other system.    It's the most complex system in the human body, with more failure modes and effects than any other system.

By its nature, wetware is open to software damage through its sensory channels.  There doesn't seem to be any virus scanners on the input channels, either.  (Though it might help to disable the buttons for CNN and HBO on your television remote.)

Sensory channels frequently malfunction. I myself hallucinate on a regular basis. But do you know how I deal with this? Simple. I ignore it! They're hallucinations, they're not real. There is no hair-haired toothy monster that is chewing my leg off. The room is not on fire and there are no strobing lights. It's just an equipment malfunction. It's not really there. Nothing is wrong. Ignore, ignore, ignore. Why's this such a hard concept to grasp?

[ZephyrZodiac]

Most kids thrive on attention, so what was positive for him may well still have been negative for you!  I have a neighbour whose son was permanently excluded during his final year (15-16) which meant he couldn't take his GCSE's, all because the teachers found him too challenging!  When I was teaching, if I had a kid like that in my class, who had ideas about things, I would think, great, this is a kid with a brain!  But nowadays, teachers have to be concerned with getting the greatest number through their exams as possible, which means they no longer have time to deal with individual questions which will derail the lesson plan!  This is Victorian training, not the creative, whole child approach which I learned at college!

You son is lucky that you are an educated person and have the ability to home-school him.  In this country it's not easy for anyone unless they have a degree and/or teaching qualification to do this, but for some kids it's the only answer. and a darn sight more positive than putting them on drugs.

[J. M. Pescado]

We had a 6 year old kiddie who literally came into school at 9.00 and by 9.05 was throwing chairs at anyone who walked through the hall, then tried to climb up the pipework onto a low level roof.  His eyes were moving around wildly and he was incapable of speaking to us because he couldn't focus.  He was moving around constantly and had to be talked down by his parents and taken home.

This sounds like a kid who isn't beaten enough and is given too much sugar. Kids are like this when they don't receive proper discipline and are fed too much energy. Cut his food intake and paddle him.

[Renatus]

*nods* I don't know a huge amount about Ritalin, but cases like your son's, SimsHost, is why is really bothers me. When I was in my teens I only knew of one kid - friend of mine - on it. He did definitely have some problems as he was born with a mild case of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and was diagnosed with ADD as well, and his father claimed he would go into violent tantrums without it.

At one point when our families were on a camping trip, and when we were preparing to go home he was getting out of hand I was told not to talk to him or he would get violent - but I talked him out of a tantrum anyhow, because I spoke to him like an intelligent human being who I respected, and he responded accordingly. I was shocked that me, at the time a 16 year old kid, could 'control' a supposedly violent 13 year old boy.

I'm sure there was more to it than that, but from the time I was in contact with that family it seemed that the single father was a milksop of a guy and didn't do much in the way of discipline. This had unfortunate results later, I'm sad to say...

After living with someone with a classic case of ADHD for five years, I really doubted how much the kid's problems were due to ADD and how much due to never learning much impulse control.

At any rate, I'm glad your son got something positive out of the whole experience. It sounds like he may have learned more about the inner workings of his mind, which is never wasted knowledge.

ZZ, you bring up some very good points and of course you are right. I think there might be some differences between schizophrenics that do get violent when they are delusional and those that don't, but I don't have any data on it so I can't really say. A delusional schizophrenic is rather frightening regardless, and the rush rush rush of cities certainly doesn't help.

Ah, so you don't have any data, JM. I'm not at all surprised. 

[veilchen]

Sandilou, I hear you loud and clear. I am amazed at the junk people feed their children and then wonder why they short-circuit. I firmly believe that diet has a massive influence on behavior, especially in children.

My son was also very active; he challenged his teachers constantly, and the worst part was, he was right 98% of the time. I was told to have him evaluated and medicated (all of my son's education took place in the US, my daughter is educated in Europe and the US). I politely declined. We had reached a deadlock with the school authorities, I would medicate my child over my dead body. He was lively, intelligent, and strong minded, in other words, perfectly normal.

Luckily his 8th grade teacher was a woman that took pedagogy at its pure form. She suggested we enroll him in the technical/vocational program. We did, and everything came up roses. He got a head-start on his career in electrical engineering, he was hired by the US coast guard as a civilian employee, and they are paying his way through college to achieve his goal (both my children have dual citizenship).

My daughter, after coming back to the US, so I can finish up my own education, was enrolled in my son's old high school. She is the same as he is; intelligent, outspoken, etc. I had to laugh though; I received a call from the teacher who had such a big hand in my son's rescue from the system. She said that my daughter's behavior is never questioned. The teachers just nod their heads, saying: "Oh, it's Ben's sister!"

[Sandilou]

This sounds like a kid who isn't beaten enough and is given too much sugar. Kids are like this when they don't receive proper discipline and are fed too much energy. Cut his food intake and paddle him.

JM, after what feels like centuries of teaching sometimes, I have to say you are so right!  However, Renatus also points in the right direction:  

I talked him out of a tantrum anyhow, because I spoke to him like an intelligent human being who I respected, and he responded accordingly. I was shocked that me, at the time a 16 year old kid, could 'control' a supposedly violent 13 year old boy

Most children need firm and consistent boundaries - hence JM's demand that they get a good paddling.  All children need to be treated with respect so that they repeat that behaviour.  That particular 6 year old's parents were at their wits end with him.  They had tried a good paddle - but he was so hyper he could easily outrun them!  Plus, just like ZZ and others have pointed out, there was a chemical imbalance which was not his own fault.  His parents needed as much help as he did.

I am far from being  a perfect parent and I'm not one of those teachers who constantly blame parents for the shortcomings of their children, however, I do recognise that many of the conditions that children 'develop' in their teenaged years had their seeds sown in earlier childhood, be it down to poor diet or lack of firm boundaries.  I have an overcompensated for, overindulged 15 year old of my own that backs up my theory.

[laeshanin]

Ah, to medicate or not to? A lot of the kids I see are heavily medicated and not just with good old speed (Ritalin), but heavy duty psychotropic drugs such as Haloperidol, Risperdol among others. Many anti-epileptics are good at sedation too, and see those used regularly. To be fair, Methylphenidate is not a regular drug of choice as it is controlled and the diagnosis has to be just right. It's effects on an immature body are astounding, and I have seen totally uncontrollable behaviour brought to manageable with its use. There does, however, remain the sicko parent who wants the child drugged so they can have a life, and because they're so inadequate they can't cope with what is within "normal" range (I hate the word "normal", cos I know I'm bloody well not!).

Stop feeding kids junk! Couldn't agree more. What's happened to good homely skills like giving a kid a decent meal instead of some crap from a poison manufacturer like McDee's?

Regarding diet, I work with this lad who is autistic, hyperactive (I mean, hanging off the ceiling by his toes stuff and wall of death!),learning disability and also on a restrictive diet: no gluten, no dairy (casein intolerant). Some bright spark let him have a bag of doughnuts...I swear to all that's holy if I find out who I will put their organs in a vice.

J.M. I've spent a lifetime ignoring and repressing, and still the f**ckers bite me on the arse every now and again. Perhaps I need drugs?

[Danni]

It's scary that they're giving kids medication just for being normal high spirited kids (something I prefer to see than a child who sits still all day personally... and I have hyperactive siblings!) I know how psychotropic drugs can change your whole personality - Haloperidol made me paranoid, anxious, and I used to wake up in the middle of the night with my heart beating twice it's normal speed and that was on 1mg a day. Venlafaxine (antidepressant) made me violent, and Prozac sedated me to the point I could barely get out of bed, and I was always on very low doses, and physically mature.

I agree diet plays a huge part in how children act - my daughter eats a lot of fruit (as well as veg at mealtimes), and I try to limit the amount of additives and sugar she takes in (I know fruit has sugar in it, but it doesn't seem to affect her). Most of the time she's a well behaved toddler, who will play for hours by herself if she wants to. Give her a pack of additive laden sweets and she's bouncing off the walls.

Same with my sisters - give them sweets (especially those with E102 in it) and they wouldn't sit down for the next few hours.

[laeshanin]

Children must have boundaries, and they need to feel secure. Loving them is not enough. So many well meaning parents have demon spawn as children because they can't bring themselves to give discipline. I'm not an advocate of the good thrashing but I do believe that an occasional slap when a child is very young and places itself in a DANGEROUS situation is useful, as is shouting their name crisply. It attracts attention, shocks, and stops them from proceeding with whatever they are about to do. Then you can intervene. Always reward good behaviour with attention and bad by withdrawing it. As a society we are too keen to give outrageous behaviour attention when all it needs is a child to be placed in a room for a few minutes, be IGNORED then have an explanation given as to why they should not behave that way. How many of us hold memories of being lavished with affection for something we did that was good, or of our parents joining us when we were well behaved, but recall the shouting, screaming and rows following a misdemenour?

This sounds a lot like training your dog, but it does work and is a very powerful tool.

[Shivani]

Regarding diet, I work with this lad who is autistic, hyperactive (I mean, hanging off the ceiling by his toes stuff and wall of death!),learning disability and also on a restrictive diet: no gluten, no dairy (casein intolerant). Some bright spark let him have a bag of doughnuts...I swear to all that's holy if I find out who I will put their organs in a vice.

Celiac disease?  Nasty.  Mum has that and keeps trying to convince me I also have it (even though I've been checked, and wasn't that an uncomfortable experience).  Of course, if she eats anything with gluten, she's in one sort of agony or another within an hour, though I understand the more immediate effects differ from person to person.

Mind you, if that is why the guy is gluten-restricted, whoever fed him doughnuts really ought to be smacked.  CD can kill you if you don't adhere to the restriction.

I was put on beta blockers once as a preventative measure for migraines--what a mistake.  They turned me into the meanest bitch within a couple of weeks, so I stopped taking them and went back to stuff like Fiorocet (now Imatrex).  I've also noticed some of the drugs to help you sleep (prescription) can really change a person's personality for the worse as well.

[SimsHost]

Sensory channels frequently malfunction. I myself hallucinate on a regular basis. But do you know how I deal with this? Simple. I ignore it! They're hallucinations, they're not real. There is no hair-haired toothy monster that is chewing my leg off. The room is not on fire and there are no strobing lights. It's just an equipment malfunction. It's not really there. Nothing is wrong. Ignore, ignore, ignore. Why's this such a hard concept to grasp?

I was thinking more of situations where the inputs from the sensory channels are real.  Even a low-level threat, such as an abusive parent (or self-inflicted abuse such as watching CNN or trying to get the quotes to come out right when replying to a SMF message), can permanently damage a human brain if the abuse is repeated daily for several years.

In the case of ignoring false inputs, you're assuming that the person has a fully functional reasoning capacity backed up by an IQ sufficient to overcome the impulses being fed to the cerebrum from that little lizard brain stem we all have.  Based on the number of people who actually seek to watch CNN and figure out how to get quotes to work in a Simple Machines Forum, I would conclude that this is not a valid assumption for the general case. 

Well, seriously, I know folks who suffer from all sorts of strange psychological phenomena such as agoraphobia and panic attacks.  (And, oddly, I've met most of them through the Sims community.  There's probably a master's thesis in pshrinkology in that fact alone, for someone who cares to pursue it.)  A few years ago I wouldn't have known what people were talking about when they brought up these things, but I can't deny the first-hand experience that demonstrated to me that these syndromes are very real.

These problems can be overcome, but in every case I know of, only with external help.  The brain is too damaged to deal with the problems on its own.

[J. M. Pescado]

I've also noticed some of the drugs to help you sleep (prescription) can really change a person's personality for the worse as well.

If people are having trouble sleeping, they should do what I do. Don't!

Now, if somebody you really *WANT* to go to sleep isn't sleeping, I suggest the classic approach involving a sock, sand, and some metal pellets, like shot or BBs. Fill the sock with the sand and pellets. Apply to back of head liberally. Repeat until unconciousness results. Problem solved.

[veilchen]

Well JM, most of us don't have your cast-iron stomach to ingest caffeine in its raw form; so the only alternative for us is to try and get some sleep, preferably without application of physical force .

But as far as dietary concerns go, I agree. All these food items with high chemical content can't possibly be good for a child. And I'm not even speaking of the bad habit of junk food ingestion, and the seemingly ever-present soda. Doesn't anyone ever read what goes into that stuff?  My friends (and my kids) hate going grocery shopping with me - before it goes in the cart, I read the label very carefully, while my daughter stands around with a stance and an expression that only 16 year olds can somehow obtain. That is, until I had her read the ingredients in some of the stuff. Now she is just as careful as I am. We prefer fresh, and if we can't get it fresh, we buy frozen.

Oh how I miss my mother's huge garden and the fruit trees. I swear, everything she plants grows, even tomatoes, and that is quite a feat in our climate.

[Shivani]

If people are having trouble sleeping, they should do what I do. Don't!

Now, if somebody you really *WANT* to go to sleep isn't sleeping, I suggest the classic approach involving a sock, sand, and some metal pellets, like shot or BBs. Fill the sock with the sand and pellets. Apply to back of head liberally. Repeat until unconciousness results. Problem solved.

Nonono.  I don't like violence unless it involves shooting intruders.  Now if only I knew where hubby stored his guns...

Actually, he was prescribed Valium once for vertigo.  I found it kind of odd that a tranquilizer could also have such negative effects.

As far as sleep goes, Insomnia is my middle name. I just live with it.

[laeshanin]

I like sleep, and the ingestion of caffeine makes me twitch. A lot. So much so that I look like I'm performing some sort of dance and being poked by a cattle prod. Not to mention what it does to my bladder and the accumulation of cellulite that I'm storing for a crisis. However, J.M. does make a good point about assisting other people to sleep, though I would try to use more subtle methods.

[J. M. Pescado]

Well JM, most of us don't have your cast-iron stomach to ingest caffeine in its raw form; so the only alternative for us is to try and get some sleep, preferably without application of physical force .

Ingest? I snort it.

[laeshanin]

Surely not, oh godlike one. Wouldn't a drip on continuous feed be better?

[RainbowTigress]

I didn't know you could snort caffeine too.  I thought coke was the only drug that was snorted.

[laeshanin]

Nope. Speed too as it's a faster hit

[RainbowTigress]

Oh ok.  See, I didn't know that.   Very educational!

[Danni]

Bah... I live in too small of a village - speed is very hard to come by (unless it's cars going down School Lane). Caffiene makes me ill... so what am I left with?

[Bane~Child]

I've also noticed some of the drugs to help you sleep (prescription) can really change a person's personality for the worse as well.

It doesn't change the personality, only releases what was already lurking there.

If people are having trouble sleeping, they should do what I do. Don't!

That's exactly what I do and I don't know why everyone keeps bugging me about it either.

[Hairfish]

Bah... I live in too small of a village - speed is very hard to come by (unless it's cars going down School Lane). Caffiene makes me ill... so what am I left with?

You could try Sudafed (pseudoephedrine). Not if you have any heart ailments, though, as it does increase heart rate, just like its cousin ephedrine.

I gave up on the idea of regular sleep a long time ago. In fact...that was about the time I was able to go off psychotropic meds entirely. Well, except caffeine and nicotine.  "Go with the flow" has worked well for the past few years, longer than any prescribed medication has ever worked, so I'm sticking with it.

JMP, you're such a funny guy! Every time you talk about how medication is so bad and unnecessary, and then in the next virtual breath write about snorting caffeine... Oh, thank you so much for the genuine laughter! I sure can use it lately!!

[J. M. Pescado]

JMP, you're such a funny guy! Every time you talk about how medication is so bad and unnecessary, and then in the next virtual breath write about snorting caffeine... Oh, thank you so much for the genuine laughter! I sure can use it lately!!

Well, think about it. That crap don't do squat, but caffeine, now caffeine is good. It keeps you from passing out. Caffeine is life. Eventually I'll have to start receiving it from a neck tube like those StarTrek alien soldiers do.