The scarecrow

[gjam]

I may be wrong here, but judging from Ellatrue's post and the part of amjoie's post that Ellatrue quoted, I think her problem was more the implication that there's something wrong with people that like the deaths in the game:

Not all of the MaxisEA target audience is +/- twenty-something looking for any kind of excitement to validate their existence. Not all of us think death is a kick

That was amjoie's response to the people who jumped all over his/her original comment:

They must either be smoking something, or just be warped. I have seriously wondered about the creaters of the Sims 2. ...

I also don't appreciate their sadistic fetish about killing off my Sims. Especially killing them with things that should normally be wonderful parts of life, like sitting in front of a warm fire on a cold night, or gathering around a Christmas tree to celebrate. I customize and mod everything to bits -- all so I can play a decent game, pleasing to my eye, without burying most of my Sims before their very short lifespan has been fulfilled. If I wanted some adreniline pumping slaughter, I'd buy a shooter. I play the Sims to relax and enjoy myself.

As well as the implication that people who enjoy the deaths in the game haven't encountered much suffering in real life, that was what bugged me about amjoie's post, and I thought that was what Ellatrue was trying to say.

 
The second comment did come across somewhat that way, but I took it in the context of amjoie getting defensive about all the negative responses to his/her first comment.

I also should have made it clear I was responding to the collective dogpiling, not just Ellatrue alone.

[amjoie]

I should probably clarify, since my post has obviously been misunderstood.

I wasn't saying that actually being twenty-something predisposes someone to the "death is a kick" perspective. No, not at all. I was saying that MaxisEA seems to have made the *generalization* that its target audience of twenty-something prefers to see lots of accidental death in the game -- ala the same generalization that twenty-somethings prefer to engage in shooters because they think death is a kick. It was a commentary on the game industry *generalizations,* and not on an age group. It's the whole "violence sells" mentality, when aimed at the youth market.

I was making a comment that the target audience of the Sims 2 should be aimed at a much wider and more diverse group of people, some of whom want the *option* of playing a different type of game. I don't really believe the hype that the Sims 2 creators have a wacky or offbeat sense of humor. I think they were told exactly what to create because of marketing goals, so that's what they created. I think the marketing goals are warped, not the artists. I may be wrong, of course.

My other comment was reactive. It was in response to all the posts that said, "I want more death, I want more death" -- not just in this thread, but throughout several forums over a period of time. That's hard to hear, when you personally wish death never existed. So I responded with, basically, "you want more death, then experience death IRL, and see if you still like it." I realize I am sensitive in that area, because I have struggled with recent loss, etc. And I know you are all talking about a game function, not the real thing. It's just hard to hear, sometimes, and this was one of those times  ....

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
............

Kyna, we all play the Sims 2 so differently. That is why the game is wildly popular, because (especially with the use of mods) the game allows for so much variance in gameplay. Your boredom threshold is different than mine. What amuses me, and entertains me, is different from what you need to stay amused and entertained. That is to be expected.

It really isn't an issue of me being attached to a Sim or Sims. Right now, I'm starting all over with brand new Sims in a new hood -- or will be once I am done with my testing in the test hood. So there is no level of attachment. Rather, it is more on a philosophical level. I'm really not an emotional basket-case, and definitely not a bleeding heart -- but I do hate death, for a whole variety of reasons. I do not want death to pop up unexpectedly in a game, ending my enjoyment of whatever I was doing. I want more control than that. In a sense, I don't want to have to "fear" something in a game. I don't enjoy that, and don't find it exciting. I find it wearing and annoying. It is more the philosophical attitude of : "This is supposed to be a 'god' game, so let me be a god. Don't set parameters on my godhead capabilities. Give me the options to make the game the way I want it."

I used to routinely save copies of houses and "remove" the copied occupants via nefarious means, in order to have an empty but fully furnished house for another hood. Back then, I used the pink flamingo to do the deed. Sims are pixels, and I had no problem with deleting pixels. Now that I have other options, I don't kill off Sims, because it's easier and better for the game to do it another way.

So please understand that it doesn't bother me if you feel the need to arrange for the death of a Sim in order to spark some drama and not be bored with your game. It doesn't bother me that MaxisEA put that capability into the code. However, it does bother me that they forced me to "live" in an environment filled with the increasing possibility of accidental death, if I would prefer it to be different. So, if it comes right down to base motives, this is more a control issue than anything else, I guess.

[Liss]

wow, Amjoie...I think you have bad game karma. :p  I've only ever had one accidental death and that was when uni first came out and a roomie went upstairs to repair a computer and got electrocuted when I wasn't looking. 

[Orikes]

List of improbable deaths that occured in game

I'm sorry, but you're either wildly exaggerating, have hacks in your game that encourage sudden, random deaths, or your game is corrupt. There is no way half the deaths you described could actually happen in a normal game.

[Nec]

I have to agree with Orikes, and like most people here, I have had very few accidental deaths in my game. Maybe 3  or 4 since I bought the game in Dec 2004.

[Liss]

I could see it happening, though.  How many of you actually send your sims cloud watching?  Also with the insanity of the body thermometer in Seasons I can see a lot of death by combustion happening, which pisses me off...I don't die if I sit in the hot tub too long.

[Orikes]

The spontaenous combustion is annoying, but is also relatively new. That's one that I did download a hack for because it was a little too silly how extremely easy it was. The rest, though... I mean, unless a kitchen is poorly designed, there's no way a sim could go up in flames before the fire truck gets there. I've had sims catch fire when the stove didn't and the fire truck got there in plenty of time. Same thing with pregnancy deaths. Who has ever seen a sim suddenly just keel over because they're pregnant? The only accidental deaths I ever had were when I first started playing and I had pregnant sims starve to death. If a sim had their needs bars mostly full and still keeled over, something else was going on.

[Lorelei]

If you constantly have Sim Stove Death, your architectural design is lacking. Make kitchens with two doors, make them large enough so panicking Sims don't trap other Sims, install your alarm, and try not to let Sims with no cooking skill make anything.

I have had some Sims cloud-watching because it got them out of my hair while skillinating or micromanaging other Sims. On the other hand, I was open to the chance they'd get mashed by space debris. It didn't happen.

For those of you clamouring for more wacky deaths, I just found Death By Swarm Of Angry Beez!

http://www.pc-sims.com/smb/showthread.php?t=6158

Of course, you have to select it. The main purpose of this item is to add a working honeybee hive to the game, with edible honey.

To prevent some kinds of motive decay / potential death / illness, this same site has sleeping pills, a first aid kit, a visiting doctor, diet pills, and more.

Anyone else found any Wacky Death Objects or, conversely, mods that prevent Wacky Deaths? That way the thread can become a resource for both types of player.

[amjoie]

List of improbable deaths that occured in game

I'm sorry, but you're either wildly exaggerating, have hacks in your game that encourage sudden, random deaths, or your game is corrupt. There is no way half the deaths you described could actually happen in a normal game.

1. Bad netiquette: Your quote of me above makes it look like I wrote the phrase you quoted, which I did not. If you want to say the list is improbable, fine, but don't make it look like I said it.
2. Flame bait: "... you're either wildly exaggerating or ... [and] There is no way half the deaths you described could actually happen in a normal game."

There was a recent thread about accessories blinking blue since Pets. The person who started the thread has had no end to problems with it. I have not had the problem. So, do I immediately tell that person they are wildly exaggerating or their game is corrupt, because no way could the game do it? Is that a reasonable response, just because their game is acting different than mine?

Besides, this game is known to be bonkers when it comes to probabilities, because they are coded very strangely. A string of deaths in my game should come as no surprise, even if you never had any in yours. If deaths are coded into the game, and set with probabilities, anything could happen. Since seasons, some people have had a penguin on every lot until it becomes a nuisance -- and some people have yet to see a penguin. Go figure.

For the record, I started playing this game the day it came out. There were no mods, in the beginning. Some of the deaths happened then. Others happened when I was testing a fresh install of the base game/old expansions, along with an added new expansion. I don't use mods when I test a new expansion. I had no indications of the fresh installs being corrupted, so you can rule that out. Others, like the Sim dropping my instruction to go to bed, and deciding to go swimming instead (resulting in death), can be chalked up to "stupid sims."

Some deaths are just quirks in the game. The pregnancy thing happened to other people, too. It might have been before the first patch, I can't remember the timing that well. But I remember reading about other people who had it happen to their Sims. It was explained, at the time. Something to do with the way disease deaths are on probabilities and that the game sees pregnancy as a disease. That was when I started looking for the first "no disease" mod.

One reason I may have had more deaths is because I have probably played the game for many more hours than most (not all) of you, who have a life. I have been confined to my bed for almost three years, and before that I was not able to stand for very long, so I spent a good deal of time at my desk. The things I can do on a computer have filled my days. I do have many programs on my computers (Mac and PC), so I don't play the Sims nonstop or anything; but they do give me a more engaging way to occupy my hours than watching TV all day long, and I enjoy the game.

The other reason I could be experiencing more accidental deaths is playing style. The type of house, type of furnishings, type of Sim, number of Sims on one lot, etc, could all affect probablilites. And, when I test a game, I poke and prod it to see what's under the hood. That might also have something to do with it.

One thing for sure, I really thought my experiences were the norm. It has come as a real surprise that the people posting have not experienced the same thing in their games. Of course, others may be having my experiences, but not be reading this thread or posting. That is also possible.

[Nec]

Then you have exceptionally stupid sims, and a knack for rolling the least likely odds. I play an average of 15 hours a day, every day, myself. Last accidental death I had was the hot tub with a visiting sim before Pescado posted a fix for that about 3 weeks ago. Before that...um. Been over a year. I can't figure out for the life of me how you got a sim to die in a pool without removing the ladder.

[Venusy]

But I have had them die of pregnancy, with hunger still in the green. Just acted weird for a second or two and then keeled over dead.

This is (was?) a Maxis bug.

I have had them die from trying to fix an appliance when their skill was at max. I even had a repairman work on an appliance and get killed.

First time I've heard of that happening in TS2 (the repairman dieing), but I seem to remember it happening in TS1.

I've had a Sim autonomously go swimming instead of going to bed as I had directed, and drown, while the partner was busy doing something (which I was watching).

Sims are normally smart enough to autonomously get out of the pool as well.

I've had a Sim who was autonomously poking a fire in the fireplace. catch on fire and die. I've had a Sim who was cooking, with about 3/4 of the cooking skill completed, die from a flash stove fire -- instantly swallowed him up in flames -- and that was with the alarm installed. He was engulfed in flames long before the fireman arrived.

How low were these Sims motives at the time?

I've had a romance Sim keel over after too much whoohoo, before I realized that it could happen.

This can't happen, unless hunger was really low before it started the woohoo interaction.

I've had a Sim watch the clouds, because I love watching clouds, only to get hit by a fallen satellite. Sure, it happened before I realized you can't watch clouds in safety. But watching clouds *should* be an enjoyable experience, not a potential death sentence!

This is extremely rare.

Spontaneous combustion, new with Seasons, can and does happen after getting too hot from *any* cause. And I have had Sims dangerously hot from too much making out -- which my Sims often do autonomously. I never thought to stop them from kissing. Who would have guessed you could die from kissing? I had a Sim dangerously hot from sitting in the hot tub too long on a Sim owned business. Whether or not they combust after overheating is a roll of the dice. And that is too much of a chance, for me. Because no one should ever die from kissing or soaking in a hot tub.

Get warmthfix to fix retarded Maxis logic.

I had a Sim die from disease, even after lots of bed rest, which is not supposed to happen but did happen in my game.

I have no idea how you managed this, the plague normally cures itself before killing the sim.

I've had a Sim get "paralyzed" (looked like a zombie) from eating food which was fine when he took it from the serving plate and started eating, but which spoiled part way through his meal. (I restarted that game, so I don't know if the paralyzing would have resulted ultimately in death or in recovery.)

No clue about this one. You could've tried forcing an error though, and seeing if that would've fixed it.

My Sims very first elevator ride resulted in "the plunge."

Which is not normally fatal. Are you keeping the motives really low for some reason?

I've had a tree hit by lightning, very close to my Sim. As quick as that storm came on, my Sim would never have had a chance to get to safety before the lightning struck, if there had not been a tree in the yard and it had targeted him instead. And for sure, he could never have gotten out of a hot tub or pool quick enough to avoid a strike. So I built a greenhouse around all my Sims outdoor activities to entirely prevent the possibility.

Can lightning hit a sim in the hot tub or the pool?

I started getting mods to prevent accidental death, because it was happening in my game way more than I wanted it to happen. I'm not complaining needlessly. I have been disturbed by the degree of accidental death in my game. I don't appreciate how the game was coded. That's my perspective, because that has been my experience. Your mileage may vary. Shrug.

Most of these seem to result from you not taking care of your sims' motives properly. Only a few are actually sadorandom.

For those of you who want more accidental death in your game, try IRL burying a son, an aunt and uncle, a best friends husband, and then watch your elderly parents struggling with disease, all within a few years time. Add a few trips to the hospital for yourself, being confined to bed between trips, with your own life in uncertain balance -- then tell me how much fun it is to watch death in a game that is supposed to be played for fun and relaxation.

Not all of the MaxisEA target audience is +/- twenty-something looking for any kind of excitement to validate their existence. Not all of us think death is a kick. Some of us have lived long enough to know from experience how short life can be, and know that death isn't fun when it causes the deepest and longest lasting pain a human can feel.

Some people either have no experience with death, or take the opinion of "they're only pixels made out of binary data wrapped into a package format", and so see the difference between a Sim's life, a real life, and, in BlueSoup's case, a Second Life.

That being said, I do enjoy the Sims, immensely. That's why I play. But I enjoy the game in spite of MaxisEA, not because of them. The game is only enjoyable because of the mods I chose to put in it, not because of the orginal coding. The game should have been coded so that the risks could have been adjusted to the game play style, on a sliding scale of risk at the whim of the player. If that had been the goal, it could have been easily coded for customization. That would have made everyone happy. But MaxisEA is saying on one hand that the game is "for however you want to play it" and then forcing a certain style of play on the other hand. And that was my original objection. My perspective, and IMHO. You are free to disagree ....

I think most players share your feelings about the original coding, and I am fairly sure that most people would've quit playing around the time that Uni came out if they were still running on purely Maxis code. However, EA made the game as modifiable as you like it: with the proper tools, it should theoretically be possible to completely disable all death using an extremely dangerous INSTALLDIR hack.

[witch]

For those of you who want more accidental death in your game, try IRL burying a son, an aunt and uncle, a best friends husband, and then watch your elderly parents struggling with disease, all within a few years time. Add a few trips to the hospital for yourself, being confined to bed between trips, with your own life in uncertain balance -- then tell me how much fun it is to watch death in a game that is supposed to be played for fun and relaxation.

Not all of the MaxisEA target audience is +/- twenty-something looking for any kind of excitement to validate their existence. Not all of us think death is a kick. Some of us have lived long enough to know from experience how short life can be, and know that death isn't fun when it causes the deepest and longest lasting pain a human can feel.

OK, you want less accidental death. Fine.

However don't try to justify your opinion with a bleat about how hard and miserable your life is currently, the assumption being that others don't suffer illness, bereavement or hardship to the level you do, guilt tripping anyone won't make you right, it's still just your opinion.

Nice try at a save about Maxis' goals for twenty-somethings, but these are your words, not the words of Maxis. I am fifty this year and don't need pixellated excitement to validate my existence, I do enjoy playing a realistic sims game, though sim deaths do not trigger the grief I may feel for real life people who have died.

I am sorry you're grieving and ill, maybe take a break from the sims if it triggers uncomfortable stuff for you.

[Orikes]

1. Bad netiquette: Your quote of me above makes it look like I wrote the phrase you quoted, which I did not. If you want to say the list is improbable, fine, but don't make it look like I said it.
2. Flame bait: "... you're either wildly exaggerating or ... [and] There is no way half the deaths you described could actually happen in a normal game."

1. It's usually good netiquette to edit down extensively large quotes so that you're not spamming other readers with stuff they've already seen. My bad, though, for not being more clear that it was a cut.

2. It's not flame bait. It's an honest opinion. You also verified it with the rest of the text in your last post. Most of the deaths you described were the result of a variety of early game glitches, were not intended to be part of the code.

As for the comparison between the blue flashy accessories and this, you're comparing apples and oranges. I never doubt someone when they say they're experiencing a glitch. With the sheer variety and scope of the types of computers out there, what people put on computers, and the weird way software can act when put in those myriad environments, I never ever doubt a glitch. What I do doubt is someone claiming that the code is doing, and INTENDED to do X when everyone else has seen it do Y.

You *ARE* exaggerating, or you are misunderstanding most of your glitched deaths for intended code proper deaths, which they are not by your own admission.

[amjoie]

I can't figure out for the life of me how you got a sim to die in a pool without removing the ladder.

He was tired almost to the point of dropping over. I instructed him to go to bed, and turned my attention back to the other Sim, expecting him to do as he was told. Well, he didn't. He went swimming. I found out he did that only when I saw his thumbnail change and double clicked to see why. There was a tombstone instead of my sim, next to the pool. So I quit without saving. When I reopened the game, I wanted to see it for myself. I directed him to go swimming. Sure enough, almost as soon as he entered the water he got to the "fall asleep standing up" stage. He curled up in the water, and Ol' Grimmy came. This was either in the base game or with Nightlife. I don't know if it would still happen after more expansions. I haven't checked. Test it out, if you want to.

With the stove fire, I was on a big lot, with a deep set back (large pond in front of the house, and a big garden area around a long fancy walkway. The Sim was engulfed by flames immediately. The stove didn't catch on fire. The stupid fireman started near the sidewalk, and by the time he made it all the way across the lot, my Sim was ashes. I learned to set houses closer to the sidewalk, with a clear access to the door. But that was before the "no fire" mods I have now. I use no stove fire, no BBQ fire, ever burning fireplaces that don't kill, no Christmas tree fires, no reindeer fires, etc. Now I can build any way I want.

The fireplace death was before I knew fireplaces could kill a Sim poking them. I had all the objects far enough away from the fireplace itself, so I thought the fireplace was safe. My Sim got up off the couch to poke the fire, which I thought was a harmless activity, and I turned my attention to another Sim in the family. Suddenly I see the fire thought bubble, and the Sim I was watching ran to the living room. It was a good sized fire by then, and the Sim who had been poking the fire was ashes. I quit without saving. I almost always quit without saving, so I wasn't losing Sims, but I still didn't like them dying by accident.

The only death I still don't understand was the disease death (he got sick when a bunch of balloons popped and left an invisible trash heap on my property and I had roaches everywhere). I had done everything I was supposed to do in order for the Sim to recover. But I guess the disease code is really strange, with a lot of random wackiness. And the fact that I kept calling the exterminator, but the roaches kept coming back, might have had something to do with it. I had discovered the invisible trash heap before the death, though (the maid kept going out to the yard, and I was curious why so I followed her -- she took a garbage bag out of clear air where the balloons had been), and removed it, so at the time of death the lot wasn't corrupt.

The one that really made me mad was the repair of the dishwasher, when he was maxed out in mechanical skills. I had maxed him out specifically so it was safe to make repairs. And then he got toasted. I was not a happy camper. I do have to admit that I laughed when the repairman died in another house, though. That was kinda funny. I thought the repairmen were immune to it. I felt better about my Sim when I found out even a professional could get killed trying to make repairs.

With the kissing, be sure to prevent your Sims from making out when they are already getting hot from being outside or exercising or something else that has raised heat like being in a hot tub together. I haven't had many couples that autonomously make out (most will kiss tender or hug, kiss up the arm, or serenade each other) but I have had a few loving couples who do a lot of autonomous making out. This was one of those couples. If he instigates a make out, and then she immediately instigages another make out, and one was hot to begin with, it can result in combustion.

The hot tub temp goes up really fast, even in winter. So unless you mod, watch them in that. It can be nasty.

I will admit readily that most of the deaths were due to my not understanding what could kill in the game. But that is moot. It doesn't come with instructions, for the most part, concerning these death traps. So until it happens or you hear of it happening to someone else, you don't know. And when warnings are given, like "be sure to give your Sim mechanical skills before making repairs," and those warnings are heeded, the Sim should be safe. It was the same with stove fires. They can still occur with skilled Sims, and with Nannys (over whom you are supposed to have no control). The game is designed for the possibility of accidental deaths. Period. No matter what you do.

I was ready to post this when it told me there were three other posts. So I'll answer those, too:

Venusy:

I'm glad to hear the pregnancy thing was a bug. Last I heard it was just part of the disease randomness. I hope they fixed it.

My Sim got out of bed after whoohoo and died. That's all I know. Maybe he was low on motives. I coudn't swear he wasn't. I honestly don't remember. It was a few expansions ago.

I already talked about the pool. He fell asleep. No time to get out. And I talked about the stove fire. I already talked about the plague, too. Might have been the presence of roaches. Dunno.

I have the fixes I need to enjoy my game, but I wish MaxisEA had given me the option originally. I am really grateful for the fixes.

My Sim didn't die from the plunge. I didn't say he did, and didn't mean to leave that impression. Sorry that wasn't clear. But the plunge happened on his first elevator ride, so I took out the elevators because I realized death by elevator was possible. I had been looking forward to elevators, so this did not make me happy.

I know the game can be modified. That wasn't ever the issue. I wanted MaxisEA to give us the option, and not dictate accidental death, that's all.

Witch and Orikes:

I don't care for flaming, or forum fighting. Please stay on topic and don't get personal. Thank you.

...................

You know, I really never expected this kind of grilling. I didn't like Maxis EA code, and said so. I shared my game experience. I found out my experience has not matched some other people's experience. But I sure didn't expect people to raise their eyebrows in disbelief. And I do think this is the first time I have ever seen anyone actually defending MaxisEA code. LOL
 

[Lerf]

Personally I'm getting so tired of all my Sims dying in Platinum of old age that I'm thinking of using this:

http://isleofthyme.squarespace.com/sims2ros/

to keep the game interesting.

And it's not like Maxis doesn't give you a couple of ways to ressurect dead Sims, or that you can't just exit without saving.

[witch]

Witch and Orikes:

I don't care for flaming, or forum fighting. Please stay on topic and don't get personal. Thank you.

Tough. You started by bleating about your poor hard life and how that means the game affects you personally. You laid that stuff out on the table.

Don't try to tell me what I may or may not talk about on the net.

In my response to you I acknowledged your personal issues and how it makes the game difficult for you. As myself and others have suggested, if it upsets you so much, don't play the bloody thing.

PS The topic is The Scarecrow, not how the sims' deaths upset amjoie.

[Diala]

And if amjore's complaining bothers you so much, then don't read it. Whether you believe her or not doesn't matter to me. You can talk about what she said without attacking her for it.

[Tigerlilley]

Witch and Orikes:

I don't care for flaming, or forum fighting. Please stay on topic and don't get personal. Thank you.

PS The topic is The Scarecrow, not how the sims' deaths upset amjoie.

Amjoie... this is Maty.  Flaming, and arguments in general are widely encouraged.  Don't tell others how to post when you hijacked a thread in the first place.

Also with all your random deaths, are you absoutly sure its not a hack thing?  Ive been playing the sims2 since it came out and i have never experienced, nor read about anyone else having as much "Accidental" death as you do.

Maybe your just crap at playing.

[jsalemi]

Witch and Orikes:

I don't care for flaming, or forum fighting. Please stay on topic and don't get personal. Thank you.

And if amjore's complaining bothers you so much, then don't read it. Whether you believe her or not doesn't matter to me. You can talk about what she said without attacking her for it.

Then you're both in the wrong place -- being mean, flaming and fighting are part of the charter here.

And speaking of 'staying on topic' -- the topic in this thread was about what the scarecrow in seasons does, not the many ways sims can or can't die.  So take your own advice....

[Diala]

Then you're both in the wrong place -- being mean, flaming and fighting are part of the charter here.

I know that. But internet fights about internet fighting are the best! That way, everyone else just throws up their arms in exasperation and does something equally pointless, like panic and loot.

(EDIT: God, my Engrish is horrible today.)

[amjoie]

Well, there is a difference between "good-natured" mean picking on someone, ala Pescado, and actual flame bait. Flaming is always in bad taste, because it isn't fun for anyone. I have no problem with someone being "mean to me." I expect a certain amount of razzing, etc. That's the tone of the forum. But the flaming goes beyond that to actual attacks, designed only to cause a senseless fight, usually because they think they have found a weakness they can exploit for fun and excitement. Meh.

[Tigerlilley]

If you read the whole thread.. there was no one actually flaming you until you started accusing people and making a song and dance about it.  Poor Orikes was just offering his opinion before he got hit with "Bad netiqutte and you're flaming"

edited to spell "you're" right 

[witch]

You can talk about what she said without attacking her for it.

I did.

Flaming is always in bad taste, because it isn't fun for anyone. I have no problem with someone being "mean to me." I expect a certain amount of razzing, etc. That's the tone of the forum. But the flaming goes beyond that to actual attacks, designed only to cause a senseless fight, usually because they think they have found a weakness they can exploit for fun and excitement. Meh.

Quote me an actual 'attack'? I agreed you're sad and sick, as stated by yourself. I expressed sympathy. I offered a resolution. Where's the flaming? I missed that part, though I could start if you like...

[Nailati]

Seriously, though, what is up with the assholey behavior in this thread? Of course everyone's entitled to be as flamey as they like; I'm just genuinely baffled at the snittiness. Seems to me like amjoie is handling it fairly well.

Just an observation, my babies.

* Nailati puts on her shield of +10 to Flame Indifference

[Tigerlilley]

Well the reason i was going to respond to this thread in the first place is...

What animated snowman?  The snowman in Seasons is animated?  Ive never seen it! Nor the scarecrow but ive never used one of those yet, however i had my sims out building snowmen every day of winter. 

Ps Nailati, i really like your new avatar a helleva lot better than your old one