Deleting sub neighbourhoods

[angelyne]

What happen to the downtownies  when you delete  your downtown.  I believe they are not deleted and are still part of your game.   Are they in some kind of sim limbo, like the sim bin or do they wander your base neighbourhood?  What if you create a new dowtown, can you make your old downtown characters part of your new dowtown?

[SaraMK]

All of the character data is stored in N00#_Neighborhood.package, so the sims will not be deleted.

Remember, the game won't let you delete your Downtown if you don't have at least TWO of them. Therefor, you can't really end up with any sims in limbo. They should continue to show up in the remaining Downtown(s).

Now, if you got brave/reckless and deleted the only Downtown you had (can't be done in-game), then you could end up with sims in limbo, especially the NPC's (grand vamps, etc.) that are tied to the Downtown. These will remain in the neighborhood's file but will (most likely) not show up anywhere, unless of course your sims know them and invite them over. Regular Downtownies may or may not show up on other community lots, and if they don't show up they can be fixed by shrubbing them into Townies. If another Downtown is ever created, you can always use the shrub to make those old Downtownies into Downtownies again, thus fixing them. I don't know what would happen to old NPC's in this scenario. They may start to show up again.

All that said, I WOULD NOT take the chance on deleting a Downtown that has occupied houses! I don't have any evidence that this is a VBT, because I have never had any reason to try. I just would not. It just sounds like such a  VBT....

[angelyne]

I was wondering if this could be a way to change your terrain for a downtown.  If you create a new downtown with the template (therefore with no characters), could you transfer your downtownies from one to the other?

Maybe this is too risky.  I've read Pescado's tutorial on terrain surgery, but my one attempt didn't work very well.  I thought this might be easier, but maybe not.

Edit:  I was looking at SimPE and there is a field called Subhood.  It seems likely that changing that value would re-assign a sims to a different 'hood.

[SaraMK]

Well, at worst you would lose some NPC's. Downtownies can easily be fixed.

Again, any occupied houses should be emptied before you delete the Downtown. Also beware of graves. I have no idea what would happen if a subhood was deleted and lots with graves on them were deleted with it.

Other than that I can't really think of a reason not to do it.

[cwykes]

I think you'd be better of doing it with the maxis tools and then cleaning up any mess in the files - that's well trodden ground.  Trying to fix it with SimPE means breaking new ground and following advice from people who haven't actually done exactly what you want to do.   I've been trying to fake OFB into thinking a downtown is a business sub-hood without success so far, so there is probably more to fix than you think.  I don't have NL, but I have done quite a bit of messing around with sub-hoods because of Sedona.

I've added extra sub-hoods in OFB and as far as I remember, adding an empty terrain doesn't add any extra characters.  O could be wrong there and anyway downtown might be different, so why don't you just try it out on a test hood?  Or back up your hood and try it with that.  Check out the stats on a hood with a downtown, start up the game, click to add a second downtown, choose the SC4 file you want and then quit.  If you can't see any extra characters, you are home and dry.  Start up the game, evict all the playables to the simbin and put any lots you want in the lotbin.  Then delete the old downtown, place the lots in the new one and move the sims in.  If any extra characters have been created, it's up to you if you live with them or clean them out.  Follow Pescado's instructions.

I have no idea about the ghost end of things - I don't have Uni or NL and have never had many ghosts.  I'd have thought the game ought to be able to cope with deleting a subhood where some lots have graves on, provided you do it in game.  But you might want to try moving your graves to a community lot in the new hood before you delete the old one.  Again - test it before you do it for real.

[SaraMK]

I've been trying to fake OFB into thinking a downtown is a business sub-hood without success so far

That should actually be fairly simple....

Unless I'm not understanding what exactly you are trying to do.

[cwykes]

Well I thought it was going to be simple until I tried too!  I thought I'd fixed it in SimPE, but the game says there's no subhood to go to.  I haven't tried in a while, so I may have missed something obvious.  Of course, the NL lots are probably going to crash the game anyway even if I get the sub-hood to show...

[angelyne]

I've added extra sub-hoods in OFB and as far as I remember, adding an empty terrain doesn't add any extra characters.  O could be wrong there and anyway downtown might be different, so why don't you just try it out on a test hood?  Or back up your hood and try it with that.  Check out the stats on a hood with a downtown, start up the game, click to add a second downtown, choose the SC4 file you want and then quit.  If you can't see any extra characters, you are home and dry.  Start up the game, evict all the playables to the simbin and put any lots you want in the lotbin.  Then delete the old downtown, place the lots in the new one and move the sims in.  If any extra characters have been created, it's up to you if you live with them or clean them out.  Follow Pescado's instructions.

Yes Cwykes.  that's exactly what I had in mind. But then I started wondering what would happen to the special NPC's that are attached to the subhood.  Maybe the best thing is simply not to change your mind about the terrain your picked.  That's what I am going to try to do

[SaraMK]

Well I thought it was going to be simple until I tried too!  I thought I'd fixed it in SimPE, but the game says there's no subhood to go to.  I haven't tried in a while, so I may have missed something obvious.  Of course, the NL lots are probably going to crash the game anyway even if I get the sub-hood to show...

So you downloaded a Downtown from somewhere (or got your hands on the real NL Downtown), and since you don't have NL you are trying to get it to show up as an OFB sub-hood? That's the way I understood your post.

Did you replace the ID Number with a valid one (ripped out of an OFB sub-hood), and delete Version Information? That's the two steps I'd start with.

If you don't have NL and the lots used NL stuff, they might crash, yes. But the neighborhood should show up, at least.

[cwykes]

Yes Cwykes.  that's exactly what I had in mind. But then I started wondering what would happen to the special NPC's that are attached to the subhood.  Maybe the best thing is simply not to change your mind about the terrain your picked.  That's what I am going to try to do

I don't think they are attached to the sub-hood.  I think they belong to the whole neighborhood.  That's why I suggested doing it the way I did.  I think the special NPCs will operate in whatever subhood is attached or both.  Good luck with trying to change your mind!  Once I have a puzzle on my mind, it never quit stops bugging me!

Did you replace the ID Number with a valid one (ripped out of an OFB sub-hood), and delete Version Information? That's the two steps I'd start with.

I DL'd Beacon Falls developed by TSR people which has a Uni and a downtown attached.  I have base + OFB.  I was curious to see what was in the sub-hoods, so I tried to fake the game out before I played. It worked to some extent - the subhoods didn't get deleted.  When I first went into the hood, I got a message saying "you uninstalled uni so the YA's have been aged to adult and playables moved to the lotbin."  I can play all the sims in the main hood fine, but the sub-hood buttons are greyed out as if they aren't there. 

I think I just changed the type to suburb and changed the filename to suburb.  I left the ID number alone - the main hood is 22, the uni is 21 and the downtown is 23.  why wouldn't those numbers be OK?  The version info says OFB in the game and the sub-hood - looks ok to me.  Maybe I shouldn't have changed the file names. 

[SaraMK]

I DL'd Beacon Falls developed by TSR people which has a Uni and a downtown attached.  I have base + OFB.  I was curious to see what was in the sub-hoods, so I tried to fake the game out before I played. It worked to some extent - the subhoods didn't get deleted.  When I first went into the hood, I got a message saying "you uninstalled uni so the YA's have been aged to adult and playables moved to the lotbin."  I can play all the sims in the main hood fine, but the sub-hood buttons are greyed out as if they aren't there. 

I think I just changed the type to suburb and changed the filename to suburb.  I left the ID number alone - the main hood is 22, the uni is 21 and the downtown is 23.  why wouldn't those numbers be OK?  The version info says OFB in the game and the sub-hood - looks ok to me.  Maybe I shouldn't have changed the file names. 

Cwykes, is this what you were wanting?









All I did here is what I told you before, delete Version Information and swap ID Number with a valid one from an actual OFB sub-hood. Minimal work required (less than 5 minutes total). I did this using the setup you said you have (base + OFB).

You took some shortcuts in the process of "faking the game out." The game simply does not allow you to swap files that way. Those internal numbers are important, and you can't change them by hand because SimPE doesn't currently show you everything that needs to be changed. I'm not blaming you, mind you, I'm just explaining why it didn't work. Having worked many hours on the merged neighborhoods, this is one area that I know pretty well, but I am constantly  receiving emails from people who look at my tutorial and say "Bah, what the heck are all those steps for?" Like... sure, I wrote out a hundred extra steps just for laughs, and they aren't necessary at all.   

By the way, I tested only four houses (all occupied), and other than some missing walls and floors, nothing seemed wrong with them or the sims. But, as a disclaimer, I will admit to spending less than a minute or so looking around the neighborhood. All I wanted to see was whether it would show up and whether loading one or two houses would cause any crashes. Obviously this is not a guarantee of a lack of glitchiness.

Okay, so here is a hacked file for you to use. Everything is done for you. Simply open the N007 folder (the Beacon 'hood), delete the N007_Downtown file and its picture, and put in the file and picture you downloaded from me. You should do this on a fresh copy of Beacon Falls, not one you've already tried to fiddle with yourself.

http://www.box.net/public/qfdz9avuzg

And here is a mini-tutorial for any potential next times:

Step 1: Create a new neighborhood (let's call it N001) and attach an OFB sub-hood to it. Make it a custom one, not the Maxis Bluewater one. Exit the game.

Step 2: Open N001_Suburb001.package in SimPE and extract ID Number from it. Exit SimPE.

Step 3: Install the TSR neighborhood you downloaded. Do not run the game yet. Rename N007_Downtown001.package to N007_Suburb001.package and N007_Downtown001.png to N007_Suburb001.png

Step 4: Open N007_Suburb001.package in SimPE. Delete Version Information. Replace ID Number with the one you extracted earlier.

Step 5: Run the game and see if it worked.

[birene]

If you delete a subneighborhood, downtown or uni with occupied lots all the playable sims will just end up in the sims bin. So that shouldn't be a problem. No idea what happens with the NPCs and townies though.

[cwykes]

Thank you SaraMK - I can see why you'd be frustrated with all of us thinking it's easy when it's not. 
I'm not expecting miracles from faking the game into thinking the downtown is a suburb, - all the NL content will disappear and a few lots are bound to crash the game.  I just wanted to have enough of a look at Beacon Falls to see how my Meadow Lawns compares.  I think I'm going to make that another sub-hood anyway even though it is very big.  The game takes care of renumbering etc.   If you ever tried Sedona, I'd be interested in any comments on my install instructions - feel free to be honest and brutal and yes I do mean it!

I sort of understand what's going on now I think -  It figures SimPE isn't showing me everything I need to change! Creating a dummy and overwriting it is a clever way round that SaraMK. 

Version info - you're saying delete it rather than change it.  I read what I expected to read rather than what you wrote.   The ex-downtown has OFB in the version field - that might be one I changed, so I thought that was OK.

I was assuming the IDnumbers were OK because my game created them, but I guess they were actually created in the game Beacon Falls came from which is why they are a problem if they are not unique in my game.

Thanks for doing this for me SaraMK - let me know if I can return the favour sometime!

[SaraMK]

Version info - you're saying delete it rather than change it.  I read what I expected to read rather than what you wrote.   The ex-downtown has OFB in the version field - that might be one I changed, so I thought that was OK.

I'm not really 100% sure that deleting (or doing anything else with) Version Info is strictly necessary. One time I was working on a neighborhood and it kept crashing. I deleted Version Info and it stopped crashing. As they say, if it works, keep doing it. Since it's a tiny step and easy to do, I don't see why not. Whether doing so is actually necessary or not is just not worth taking the time to test.

Version Info will be generated by the game the next time you run it, only it will be an "updated" version. Technically the game should update the old one, too, if it differs in some way from what it should be based on the EP's you have installed. In any case, deleting it is completely harmless.



Anyway, let me know if you get the neighborhood installed okay and all that stuff.