a lunch meat sandwich is a lunch meat sandwich is a....

[cwykes]

I thought food cooked by a 10 skill points sim was supposed to be better than food cooked by a 0 skill sim. 
I also thought an expensive kitchen was supposed to improve the food.   Have I had it wrong all this time?  From extensive tests involving volunteer sims from various backgrounds etc etc, a Lunch Meat Sandwich adds 25/100 to the hunger bar whoever makes it and whichever counter it was made on.  Am I going insane here?

I set out to re-organise the collection of junk under my name in the War Room and was checking a few facts in game.  I don't think it works how the Prima guide tells us - oh surprise - so I'm now having a complete re-think.  Here's what I'm finding from hours of staring carefully at Sims cooking over the weekend.  Am I wasting my time here or should I carry on?

Sims learn to cook faster on a high value counter.  Skill gain from those first lunch meat sandwiches:
0.50  from a high value counter costs 500+   (two sandwiches earns that cooking point)
0.45  from a medium value counter 200-499  (three sandwiches)
0.30  from a low value counter  (takes four sandwiches to get that first skill point)
Pescado says reading and watching tv increase skill twice as fast so don't learn this way. (twice as fast as which counter?)
Skill gain then drops off.  My guess  is it goes something like this on a medium counter:  0.45, 0.25, 0.15, 0.05.....  and like this on a cheap counter 0.30, 0.15, 0.5.......  You can't measure acturately in game once you are looking at half a point or less.

Sims prepare things quicker on a low value counter (might be why there's less skill gain?)
Dusty - level 8 cook took 15-16 mins to make a lunch meat sandwich on a low value counter and 19-10 mins on a high value counter.  All well and good if the sandwich was better, but it's not!  still fills up 25% of that hunger bar. 

I got similar results for cookers with Lynn making spaghetti using a high value counter and changing the cooker on him.  first couple of  times he made it - 33mins on a cheap cooker, then 40 mins on a high value cooker.  It seems to be quicker to eat than a sandwich (15 mins or so) and fill up 35-40 on the hunger bar.  I haven't done nearly as many observations on this one.

The time it takes to make the sandwich seems to have a learning curve.  Yoko took 23 mins for the first two, 20 for the next 2 and about 18 each for the next 8. She had a cheap counter, so it doesn't look connected to gaining whole skill points.  For her I used the OFB fridge option "make many" and timed hand on fridge door to vanish into inventory.  The counter was right next to the fridge and it took 1 min to move back to fridge.  Moira's 10 lots of cereal took her 11 mins each with no learning curve.  So maybe I'm imagining the learning curve.

The time it takes to eat the sandwich is pretty much the same regardless of sim personality if they are alone.  In company all bets are off.  It takes about 30-35 mins to eat a lunch meat sandwich - 11 bites.

Making Gelatin gives no cooking skill gain whatsoever, but it takes no time to prepare and sims can make it without buying a counter.  The couple of times I watched sims eat gelatin, it seemed about as filling as lunch meat sandwiches and was much quicker to eat.   more tests needed on this one though.

Not all my numbers are comparable, I sort of got the hang of the scientific thing after a bit, but they weren't all in the same kitchen and I got a bit distracted by sim babies being born, fires and other stuff.  So I moved to a test lot.

New recommendations based on these findings.  Buy your starter sims 1 high value counter on day 1 to help them learn as they go, sell it before midnight if you like.  Trade down to a cheap kitchen when their cooking skill increases to speed things up!


So, what do you think?  Anyone like to try a couple of observations and tell me if I'm on track or going insane?   

[V]

Have you done more observational learning things on this subject, cwykes?

I had taken to replacing the cheap counters with the better ones as soon as possible, not just for their aesthetic qualities but because I was under the impression that the food "worked" better if it were prepared on a better counter. I also replace the stove with any "10 Hunger Stove" as soon as financially feasible for the same reason.

My sims usually only get lunch meat sandwiches on their first day or two of life, before they have had a chance to build up cooking skill. Once they have a few cooking points I have them cook whatever seems like the most filling meal (IMO, pancakes, chili, & pork chops).

Anyway, I am interested in hearing more of your experiments.

[witch]

(IMO, pancakes, chili, & pork chops).

How odd, those are usually the things I make my sims prepare and for the same reason, they seem the most filling to me!

I'd be interested in further observations about food / timing / cooking skills too.

[snowyrat]

I'd be interested in further observations about food / timing / cooking skills too.

Have you already noticed this:
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,2606.0.html

[V]

Yes. I had seen the food processor thread before. I remember now that was where I got the idea for pork chops instead of spaghetti for regular dinners. (Pork chops still seem like a more filling meal than salmon  )

But this thread seems to dispute the results regarding the counters that was raised in the food processor thread and it seems to dispute some of the other conclusions drawn by cwykes previous research.

cwykes, I love that you are doing all this research!

 

[cwykes]

that's my thread - I'm responsible for it being there.  That's why I was getting really worried that the info in it wasn't actually right!  The info in that thread is received wisdom in the simming community.  It's how Maxis told the Prima guide, cooking was supposed to work. As such it doesn't really belong in the war-room.  It got there because I asked someone to write something on food and posted what I had found.  Pescado put my post in the war room and that was the end of it.  I'm not sure anyone has actually checked to see that it's actually how it DOES work.

No, I haven't done any more experimenting - I was kind of hoping someone more awesome than me would take an interest when they got the new server sorted out.  I expect the code for cooking is a pretty complicated maxian mess, but looking at that has got to be better than measuring gains on the hunger bar and timing cooking in game.  I don't know how to get at the code to look for myself - and I'm not sure I'd understand it if I did - the last programming language I really understood was Fortran - though I have worked a bit in VB since, so I guess I could learn something new.

If I'm going to carry on observing things in game, I guess the next task is to look at the difference the cooking appliances make (3 ovens, OFB stove, microwave, toaster oven and BBQs -I don't have uni).  I need to have 1 cook make the same thing on as many appliances as possible enough times to get an average cooking time, then repeat with another cook at a different skill level.  I guess a lobster thermidor cook-in day might be fun for the stoves though the burn rate is annoyingly high if you have to do it a lot of times.  After that I should go back to look at the the food processor on different counters.

When I think I understand what's going on with the equipment, I should look at all the types of food and measure the increase in the hunger bar and time taken to eat it.  I'd better do more observations on the neat v. sloppy eating times while I'm at it. 

Anything else spring to mind?

[V]

I think one of the tricky things about using just one cook would be that that one cook is going to develop cooking skill while he/she conducts your experiments. The added cooking skill may skew the later results. Perhaps you should start with a zero cooking skill and a very expensive counter and move on to a worse and worse counter as cooking skill increases to compensate?

Well... there is a reason I don't do scientific research. 

I am still interested to know if the food processor speeds up the cooking process or if its only use is to prevent the annoying "Ouch I cut my finger" animations (which are cute the first five times and after that just time-consuming stupidity, IMO).

Oh and it does seem as if the food value does go up with the more expensive counters. I will usually replace one of the cheap counters with a good one as soon as I can afford it just so I don't have to make two of everything in order to feed my sims. I started doing that on the advice from your previous thread and continue to do it because a) it seems to work and b) the new counters are prettier.

Again... there is a reason I don't do scientific research.    

[notveryawesome]

I guess a lobster thermidor cook-in day might be fun for the stoves though the burn rate is annoyingly high if you have to do it a lot of times.

I use 'Fireproof Cooking' by Simsky (he's on MTS2 and maybe InSim too), as well as 'don't walk away while cooking' and 'no smells yummy' both by Squinge at InSim. These have helped me (and my sims) immensely, especially when cooking dinner for the headmaster.

[cwykes]

I'd really like an awesome "no walk away"  toaster pastries cause a lot of fires!  Yet another reason my sims eat a lot of chef salad!

sims developing skills during tests is part of the problem.  But seeing what difference skill level makes is part of the question.  I might resort to quitting to the hood screen next time I look at it.  Last time I was using different sims with no skill one after the other in the same kitchen.  Emptying the fridge was more of a problem there!

[Jelenedra]

Boolprop testingcheatsenabled true and drag the cooking skill to zero before the start of every test.

[miros]

I'd really like an awesome "no walk away"  toaster pastries cause a lot of fires!  Yet another reason my sims eat a lot of chef salad!

Yeah, I got tired of cooking fires going out of control, so I got the no-walk-away hack too.  They still burn stuff, but not a real fire.

[notveryawesome]

I'm pretty sure there's a 'no burnt food' hack floating around somewhere, but I don't remember who made it (I'm guessing Squinge). I didn't want to use that particular hack, because it's just not realistic, IMO. After all, even the most experienced chefs occasionally burn their food.

[rohina]

Not just burn, but have recipes go a bit wrong. I always think of burnt food in Sims as standing in for "I tried that recipe for Salmon with Cabbage and walnuts that I saw in the paper".

[ElfPuddle]

That doesn't even sound good.

[notveryawesome]

Not just burn, but have recipes go a bit wrong. I always think of burnt food in Sims as standing in for "I tried that recipe for Salmon with Cabbage and walnuts that I saw in the paper".

This is true, though I agree with ElfPuddle that this particular recipe does not seem very appealing.

[J. M. Pescado]

I'm pretty sure there's a 'no burnt food' hack floating around somewhere, but I don't remember who made it (I'm guessing Squinge).

I think Carrigon made a version, but Squinge may have one also, he has a habit of duplicating works.

I didn't want to use that particular hack, because it's just not realistic, IMO. After all, even the most experienced chefs occasionally burn their food.

I have never, ever, burned a food. Ever.

[witch]

I have never, ever, burned a food. Ever.

Have you never, ever, cooked food? Ever?

[J. M. Pescado]

The methodical process by which I heat anything is such that it's not possible to burn something. Something is done once it returns to lifelike temperature. I'd have to ignore and leave it there for a very long time for it to actually become burned. However, since that would imply I wasn't interested in eating it anyway, why would I have bothered preparing anything to be eaten at all?

[PandaGirl]

I always thought JM ate everything raw.  This new information blows my mind

[J. M. Pescado]

I always thought JM ate everything raw.  This new information blows my mind

I do. But stuff stored in freezers is still COLD. I like my meat at lifelike temperature, so it tastes fresh!

[witch]

Technically what you are doing is defrosting. I have never burned food when defrosting it either. Cooking is when heat is applied and the food changes in texture and taste. 

[sudaki]

The methodical process by which I heat anything is such that it's not possible to burn something.

Not everyone can reheat leftovers just by looking at them.

[rohina]

I make toast by breathing on bread.

[FrickinIdjit]

I like my meat at lifelike temperature, so it tastes fresh!

Would that be 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit?

[Jelenedra]

I make toast by breathing on bread.

Morning breath?