Submit Issues about Nightlife

[MaxoidTom]

The form I requested has been put up on the official BBS.  You can access it from here: http://bbs.thesims2.ea.com/community/bbs/messages.php?&openItemID=item.81,root.1,item.43,item.41,item.23&threadID=0c8be44518acb2647093f29576944f77&directoryID=81&startRow=1 (or more directly, here: http://thesims2.ea.com/community/qa_form.php).

You will need to be registered on the site to use the form.

Please include clear reproduction steps if possible.  To ensure that mods/hacks are not causing any of the problems, please run the game with custom content objects disabled (you will need to restart the game after changing the option).

[Ivy]

I hate to really sound sour about the whole issue, but this is what happened after Uni was released.

The form was put up for 4 months before anything was mentioned of it again.  We submitted form after form, and apparently they went *poof* somewhere in lalaland, because nothing yet has been done...i.e. we still don't have the patch for Uni.

Part of the reason why coming here to this BBS helps you out so much Tom is that it's easier to get more detailed information that someone simply submitting a post...you can ask for clarification and get it here.

I thought with that, ya'll had finally learned something.

Guess that I was wrong.

Ivy

[linolino]

yes, i think you're right...

[Gus Smedstad]

I'm not an EA employee, nor have I ever been, but I know the business.

Getting bug reports from the general public is a hairy mess.  Heck, getting bug reports from QA is a hairy mess, and the guys in QA have more training that the general public.

As a programmer, you can't fix a bug unless you can reproduce it.  If you can't reproduce it, you can only guess at the cause, and there's no way to verify if the change you've made has actually solved the problem.  There's nothing more frustrating for a programmer than knowing a problem exists, yet having no way to attack it.

QA knows this, yet they still occasionally post a bug with insufficient information.  Sometimes it's because they omit a required action to produce the bug, sometimes they submit a save game that's too late because the bug has already occurred, and sometimes they have their own private theory about what's wrong, and they filter what they say through that.

The general public, on the other hand, almost always omits vital information in bug reports.  I'd say that 90%+ of the bug reports from the public are unusable.  What's worse, they're highly emotional about it.  Justifiably so, since they paid money for the game and they've had a bad experience with the bug.  The emotional charge makes it hard dealing with them, though, and often acts as noise concealing the bug information you need.

The main thing the form is missing is a place for a contact email address.  It's omitted no doubt because they don't want to give the impression you'll get a reply as a matter of course, because they'll probably have to throw out 90%+ of the reports.  However, were I the one making the decisions, I'd want a contact email.  That way you can follow up for clarifications and/or save files.  More, I would send a reply to every bug actually fixed internally.  Most people still would never hear from EA again, but the reports that did get a "confirmed fixed" email would keep positive word-of-mouth going about the value of the bug form.  Even better, it would encourage reports from the players who are best at sending in usable bug reports.

 - Gus

[JenW]

Just a note on the contact e-mail address, since you do have to be registered on the site to submit a bug, they know who submitted each report and should be able to track down your e-mail address that way.

I know where you're coming from on the bug reports, Gus...I'm a tech writer and I see a lot of defects opened by development and test, and so many of them don't include enough information to recreate or fix the problem. And almost none of them have enough information for me to document the issue, but that's a whole other complaint

Back on topic, thank you Tom for getting this form set up. I hope you guys get some usuable and helpful information!

Jen

[Marvin Kosh]

What I would like to see is a problem report tool for submitting errors which cause an interaction to be reset (i.e. that makes Sims 'jump') which clearly shows the user when the problem happened, which Sims were interacting when it happened, and what the interaction was.  In this way they have almost all the information they need to submit a properly-documented bug, and they will have a clear idea what they were doing prior to that particular event.

Also, rather than simply have the interaction reset and carry on as though nothing is wrong, there should be some sign that a problem has been recorded and give the user the option to pause what they are doing and report what has happened there and then.  An in-game error report tool is one sign that a developer has planned for the existence of errors and taken time to responsibly address the issue.

[linolino]

I have to agree with everyone, however, i must say that most bugs that ARE real bugs, are easily reproduced, since they happen 100% of the time.

examples:

01 - Teenage vampire girl body skin is a lot more bluish than her head's skin.
02 - The DJ animation for slow music is the same for fast music. the music is slow, but he keeps hopping up and down and shouting UH-UH.
03 - Make Bed action is not cancellable.
04 - Turn off the stero action is not cancellable.
05 - sims will walk as much as they need to put the coffe cup on a end table. even if they need to go up 5 floors to do it.
06 - Asking what job a sim have, return a response with "$jobTitle" instead of the atual job's name.
07 - Bowling alley don't have sounds of the ball hitting the pins even with audio settings on highest.
08 - Karaoke Machine don't play sim's voices even with audio settings on highest.
09 - Various NPCs are beeig duplicated lots of times. like the barista NPC, that is recreated everytime the game need one.
10 - the Smart Milk bug where a sim will get the bottle and place it in the fridge whenever the toddler is on the highchair
11 - The level 6 greekhouse non pledge bug

[Ancient Sim]

I have all the bugs in Lino's list apart from number 6 - well, I presume I don't have it.  I've only asked one Sim their job, but they replied quite clearly "I'm a Professional Party Guest".  What bugs me the most about all this is that these 'programmers' were sent all these bug reports about the missing karaoke singing and came back with "It's your audio settings", when clearly it isn't, yet someone not connected with them can produce a patch in less than 24 hours that works?  OK, it may not work perfectly in that the sounds still cut-out and don't always align with the movements, but at least the Sims can be heard now.  The bowling alley pin sounds are still missing, though. 

[Motoki]

I have all the bugs in Lino's list apart from number 6 - well, I presume I don't have it.

From what I understand, that bug does not effect the US English version of the game (and possibly the UK English version as well?) but stems from an oversite where they forgot to translate the job titles into other languages. Which I guess also explains how they missed it, since I assume they were testing the English version.

[MaxoidTom]

I hate to really sound sour about the whole issue, but this is what happened after Uni was released.

The form was put up for 4 months before anything was mentioned of it again.  We submitted form after form, and apparently they went *poof* somewhere in lalaland, because nothing yet has been done...i.e. we still don't have the patch for Uni.

Part of the reason why coming here to this BBS helps you out so much Tom is that it's easier to get more detailed information that someone simply submitting a post...you can ask for clarification and get it here.

I thought with that, ya'll had finally learned something.

Guess that I was wrong.

Ivy

I can understand why you are upset about the perceived lack of action on the part of Maxis.  However, we did use bugs submitted through the web form to make the Uni patch that will hopefully be out soon (lest I be crucified in here).

[MaxoidTom]

What I would like to see is a problem report tool for submitting errors which cause an interaction to be reset (i.e. that makes Sims 'jump') which clearly shows the user when the problem happened, which Sims were interacting when it happened, and what the interaction was.  In this way they have almost all the information they need to submit a properly-documented bug, and they will have a clear idea what they were doing prior to that particular event.

Also, rather than simply have the interaction reset and carry on as though nothing is wrong, there should be some sign that a problem has been recorded and give the user the option to pause what they are doing and report what has happened there and then.  An in-game error report tool is one sign that a developer has planned for the existence of errors and taken time to responsibly address the issue.

You can turn on "testingCheatsEnabled" and error dialogs will come up.  As well, error dumps will be put in the Logs directory under My Docs.  An OETreeDelete.xls file will also be generated, listing what objects were deleted, where, and why.

[MaxoidTom]

I have all the bugs in Lino's list apart from number 6 - well, I presume I don't have it.

From what I understand, that bug does not effect the US English version of the game (and possibly the UK English version as well?) but stems from an oversite where they forgot to translate the job titles into other languages. Which I guess also explains how they missed it, since I assume they were testing the English version.

The string containing that variable was not translated properly in some langauges.  It does work in English and several Asian languages.  The fix should be out in the 1st NL patch.

[nectere]

I have all the bugs in Lino's list apart from number 6 - well, I presume I don't have it.

From what I understand, that bug does not effect the US English version of the game (and possibly the UK English version as well?) but stems from an oversite where they forgot to translate the job titles into other languages. Which I guess also explains how they missed it, since I assume they were testing the English version.

Actually this is one of the few NL issues I have so far, might even be the only one. (well except the watch out thing, but I understand it so it doesnt bother me so much, besides I am still trying to break the game at this point.)

[jrd]

The bug is not present in Yankee English and Proper English, nor in Dutch.
It IS present in German and Brazilian Portuguese.

No idea about the rest. Shaklin has a modfix out: http://shaklin.sh.funpic.org/modules/PDdownloads/viewcat.php?cid=9 ($JobTitlefix.zip)

[MaxoidTom]

I have to agree with everyone, however, i must say that most bugs that ARE real bugs, are easily reproduced, since they happen 100% of the time.

examples:

01 - Teenage vampire girl body skin is a lot more bluish than her head's skin.
02 - The DJ animation for slow music is the same for fast music. the music is slow, but he keeps hopping up and down and shouting UH-UH.
03 - Make Bed action is not cancellable.
04 - Turn off the stero action is not cancellable.
05 - sims will walk as much as they need to put the coffe cup on a end table. even if they need to go up 5 floors to do it.
06 - Asking what job a sim have, return a response with "$jobTitle" instead of the atual job's name.
07 - Bowling alley don't have sounds of the ball hitting the pins even with audio settings on highest.
08 - Karaoke Machine don't play sim's voices even with audio settings on highest.
09 - Various NPCs are beeig duplicated lots of times. like the barista NPC, that is recreated everytime the game need one.
10 - the Smart Milk bug where a sim will get the bottle and place it in the fridge whenever the toddler is on the highchair
11 - The level 6 greekhouse non pledge bug

01 - seen this one, asked for it to be fixed, but not sure if it will make it out in the 1st patch
02 - haven't heard about this, but doesn't mean it hasn't been fixed.  please submit it to the web form in any case.
03 - haven't heard about this, but doesn't mean it hasn't been fixed.  please submit it to the web form in any case.
04 - haven't heard about this, but doesn't mean it hasn't been fixed.  please submit it to the web form in any case.
05 - stupid sims.
06 - Fixed in NL patch.
07 - haven't heard about this, but doesn't mean it hasn't been fixed.  please submit it to the web form in any case.
08 - problem in non-English languages (fixed in patch).  Also may be a soundcard issue (AC97), or performance dropping sounds (put audio settings on highest)
09 - I think I remember something about this, but please submit it to the web form.
10 - I believe we fixed this in the Uni & NL patch.
11 - Fixed in Uni & NL patch.

[katemonster]

Actually this is one of the few NL issues I have so far, might even be the only one. (well except the watch out thing, but I understand it so it doesnt bother me so much, besides I am still trying to break the game at this point.)

Hey, since you understand the watch out thing, could you enlighten me? I'm not complaining about it (really Tom, I'm not), I just don't get what it's for.

[miramis]

Maxoid Tom about #8  (Karaoke singing not heard).

I have the English UK version, putting the audio settings to highest didn't make a blind bit of difference.  The 3rd party fix from http://shaklin.sh.funpic.org/modules/PDdownloads/viewcat.php?cid=9 did fix it though so perhaps someone could take a look at that download?  I have the Audigy 2 ZS with the ctaud2k.sys driver (version 5.12.0001.0442 (English)) running on XP Home.  I have submitted this information through the form except for the part about my TS2 being EnglishUK.

[nectere]

Actually this is one of the few NL issues I have so far, might even be the only one. (well except the watch out thing, but I understand it so it doesnt bother me so much, besides I am still trying to break the game at this point.)

Hey, since you understand the watch out thing, could you enlighten me? I'm not complaining about it (really Tom, I'm not), I just don't get what it's for.

The watch out routine is simply a general rule to keep sims from idling on the driveway. The way its currently written it doesn't check to differentiate whether or not the sim getting out of the vehicle is idling on the driveway or not, or whether or not it matters since the sim is the driver of the only vehicle owned on the lot, so it simply kicks in the routine to kick them off the driveway. Now, why it kills any cued actions afterwards I am not sure about, I never understood why certain actions or cued in such a way as to not only override any subsequent actions, but to nullify them as well.

Of course I could be way off base.

[MaxoidTom]

Maxoid Tom about #8  (Karaoke singing not heard).

I have the English UK version, putting the audio settings to highest didn't make a blind bit of difference.  The 3rd party fix from http://shaklin.sh.funpic.org/modules/PDdownloads/viewcat.php?cid=9 did fix it though so perhaps someone could take a look at that download?  I have the Audigy 2 ZS with the ctaud2k.sys driver (version 5.12.0001.0442 (English)) running on XP Home.  I have submitted this information through the form except for the part about my TS2 being EnglishUK.

Yes, I should have clarified it is a problem outside of American (Yankee) English.

[MaxoidTom]

Actually this is one of the few NL issues I have so far, might even be the only one. (well except the watch out thing, but I understand it so it doesnt bother me so much, besides I am still trying to break the game at this point.)

Hey, since you understand the watch out thing, could you enlighten me? I'm not complaining about it (really Tom, I'm not), I just don't get what it's for.

The watch out routine is simply a general rule to keep sims from idling on the driveway. The way its currently written it doesn't check to differentiate whether or not the sim getting out of the vehicle is idling on the driveway or not, or whether or not it matters since the sim is the driver of the only vehicle owned on the lot, so it simply kicks in the routine to kick them off the driveway. Now, why it kills any cued actions afterwards I am not sure about, I never understood why certain actions or cued in such a way as to not only override any subsequent actions, but to nullify them as well.

Of course I could be way off base.

You are correct.  It is a safety mechanism to make sure sims get off the driveway, because there were so many edge cases where sims dawdle and other cars or what not run them over.  Lots of edge cases...

[MissDoh]

I have to agree with everyone, however, i must say that most bugs that ARE real bugs, are easily reproduced, since they happen 100% of the time.

examples:

04 - Turn off the stero action is not cancellable
09 - Various NPCs are beeig duplicated lots of times. like the barista NPC, that is recreated everytime the game need one.

For #4:  Turn on the stereo action cannot be cancel either if a Sim decides to do it on its own

For your #9, I resetted my game after I install Nightlife (by deleting my Sims2 folder in c:/mydocuments) and I no longer have multiple Barista created.  I have seen 3 different ones and they keep coming back (I took their name down and brief description to make sure it was always the same ones).  I don't know if it is because I resetted my game that it was fix but it is ok for me now.  I did not check to see if it would be the same ones in the college neighborhood but I am pretty sure it will be the same ones.

[Kitiara]

05 - stupid sims.

Be careful, MaxoidTom. Wouldn't want your job to be in jeopardy.

By the way, thanks for the laugh.

[miramis]

Yes, I should have clarified it is a problem outside of American (Yankee) English.

Thanks for clearing that up Maxoid Tom, perhaps someone could ask Maxoid Kane to add that part into her post on the Nightlife section of the BBS?  Looking through the Sims2UK forums it seems I wasn't the only one who didn't realise UK English would come under the foreign languages part so I'll let them know too if that's okay.

[MaxoidTom]

Yes, I should have clarified it is a problem outside of American (Yankee) English.

Thanks for clearing that up Maxoid Tom, perhaps someone could ask Maxoid Kane to add that part into her post on the Nightlife section of the BBS?  Looking through the Sims2UK forums it seems I wasn't the only one who didn't realise UK English would come under the foreign languages part so I'll let them know too if that's okay.

By all means, spread the knowledge.  Yes, UK English is considered different.  As you know, Americans have changed the spelling of a few words and we want to make sure those in the UK get text that is more appropriate for them (and doesn't offend).

[Inge]

Tom, talking of offence, were you aware that the Elder Females do a fair bit of quite offensive swearing?  I am not sure if maybe those words are not considered bad in America (bugger and wankers).   I have been in real trouble for saying damn on American sites, while here in the UK it's considered fairly mild.