SimPE Must Be Destroyed!

[J. M. Pescado]

SimPE is a piece of crap.

Starting around 0.50, it has gone rapidly downhill, becoming a bloated, clumsy monstrosity that chews up more memory than the game itself, and is nearly completely unworkable for any SERIOUS work.

And this is the last straw: Earlier, I was attempting to examine the neighborhood inventory record to identify a pattern in some garbage. However, the only thing SimPE would tell me about tokens was "---". No GUID display. No ability to edit the GUID.

Somehow, they had managed to break this feature, rendering the viewer COMPLETELY WORTHLESS, which makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE because this feature worked perfectly fine in the OLD version (which is now broken due to some Pets-related issue). This is like somehow designing a new version of a gun that omits the barrel, rendering it incapable of actually firing. How is this even POSSIBLE? I pointed this out on the SimPE forum. The issue was completely ignored, minus a snarky comment from that Xanathon buffoon, and I loathe that man.

Frankly, this has become intolerable. SimPE has effectively developed a stranglehold on the entire modding community, somehow managing to oust all the alternatives. It has become the only tool in the game. This is outrageous, and it has to stop.

I am sick and tired of fighting with this accursed thing. Until we have some kind of viable alternative, I am not going to be doing any more hacks. Who wants to help make some tools that DON'T SUCK?

[jrd]

Agreed. SimPE is becoming slower and slower, and less and less usable. It is a shame Datgen died... we don't have a real alternative now.

Time for DizzyPE?

[J. M. Pescado]

That would be nice. I detest "Smart" software, too. SimPE tries to be overly clever and ends up just being overly SLOW, CUMBERSOME, and UNRELIABLE.

[dizzy]

Here's my latest dev version if you guys want to take a stab at it.

[J. M. Pescado]

What does it do?

[Inge]

Knowing Dizzy you probably have to compile it using a Bleasdale - lol - or a Dragon32.

Well I have been saying to Peter for some time that it would be nice to have the tool split out into smaller lighter versions that addressed particular types of creation.  One for the simantics code modders, one for the graphic creators, and a completely separate one for the people who want to edit their sims's surnames and relationships - ie the gameplay editor.

But I won't hear a word against Quaxi or SimPe.   That guy has done nothing but give, give, give.   He makes the source open just for this very reason so we can use it to make our own stuff if we want to.   You can do that without moaning about it in the process surely.

[jrd]

Looks like it just needs a Python parser. I'll try resurrecting mine and check it later.

[dizzy]

That's the dev version of dizziness (the one thing I've been working on for 3 months).

Inge, when is the PJSE svn going up? I'd love to check out the latest code. 

[J. M. Pescado]

He makes the source open just for this very reason so we can use it to make our own stuff if we want to.   You can do that without moaning about it in the process surely.

I don't really buy that one at all. I looked for the source. The only there was to be found was a "localization package". The actual source package of any version was nowhere to be found.

So, here is what I propose as the project:

1. ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING INSTALLERS. Did I mention I fucking hate installers? Running the program should require the installation of absolutely nothing. It should unzip out of an archive and run. NO FUCKING INSTALLERS.
2. No Microsoftian .NET/C# shit. This something should run in a REAL programming language on something that can actually be compiled!
3. This program should be "unsafe". SimPE tries its utmost to mollycoddle, and the result is that an atrocious and utterly nonfunctional abomination exemplified by the inventory and memory token viewer. I want to see more ugly hex numbers, and NO ICON SLIDESHOWS. Just buttons which might mess things up if you have no idea what you're doing. This should be something for real coders, not faffy recolor artistes, which seem to be adequately pandered to by SimPE as it is. Did I mention my absolute loathing of icon slideshows and runaway load screens?
4. Something that doesn't run like ass! SimPE *CRAWLS* for even the most simple tasks.
5. NO FUCKING INSTALLERS. Did I mention I absolutely FUCKING HATE installers?!?

That's the dev version of dizziness (the one thing I've been working on for 3 months).

It looked interesting, but I couldn't actually read the manual because it seems to be incompatible with Windoze and isn't a standard text file readable in Linux. Also it droned on about MORE FUCKING INSTALLERS. Did I mention I hate installers and installing things? Isn't there a package somewhere with all this shit that can be dumped in the directory? I am NOT installing some random thing that has no other use that will simply cause problems and clog up the bowels of my hard drive in garbage. EVERYTHING SHOULD GO IN THE PROGRAM'S DIRECTORY! NO INSTALLERS! That IFFpencil thing from TS1 had NO INSTALLERS. Why does everything need to be plagued with fucking installers now?

We should gather in the chat to organize something.

[dizzy]

You could always just compile the latest pygtk from source, you know. 

[J. M. Pescado]

You could always just compile the latest pygtk from source, you know. 

I have no idea what you're talking about. Why wasn't this included in the file or related package? Shouldn't this be some kind of DLL I toss in the directory?

[dizzy]

Python and GTK are about 20 MB altogether. I really don't want to mess with all that.

I don't see what the big deal is about installers. It's not altogether different from using rpm or apt.

[J. M. Pescado]

Python and GTK are about 20 MB altogether. I really don't want to mess with all that.

Isn't that rather hideously bloated? Is it really necessary to have 20 MBs of crap just for what is SUPPOSED to be a small program? Especially 20 MBs of crap that will do GODKNOWSWHAT to your system by INSTALLING BITS OF ITSELF EVERYWHERE.

I don't see what the big deal is about installers. It's not altogether different from using rpm or apt.

In the Good Old Days, there were no installers. Installation involved tossing everything in a directory and running it. When you needed a new one, or got tired of it, you simply nuked the directory and it was gone. Installers leave TONS OF LITTLE TURDS everywhere. I *HATE* installers.

[dizzy]

The alternative is to write everything in C/C++ which takes about twice as long to debug.

[J. M. Pescado]

The alternative is to write everything in C/C++ which takes about twice as long to debug.

But I *LIKE* C/C++. It doesn't involve any fucking INSTALLERS. It's fast. It's SHINY. Can we get a basic file-displayey thing I can start mutilating? Hunting bugs is better than INSTALLERS anyway.

[dizzy]

I suppose we could whip up some core utils like tool sets. From the command line, it's no big deal. I'll have to fire up Bloodshed again... 

[J. M. Pescado]

Oh, that would be excellent. Then I can find someone who knows squat about doing anything graphically to attach a GUI skeleton, which puts me in what I do best: Duct taping. If it can't be fixed with duct tape, it can't be fixed at all.

[dizzy]

This would probably be a better way to do it for advanced users. Sets of simple tools are often more useful than the all-in-one type solutions most people prefer.

[J. M. Pescado]

Given that advanced users are the underserved market here, as the present focus of SimPE is pandering to those who want to edit their neighborhoods, recolor their crap, etc., etc., this is most assuredly a good thing.

[Inge]

I think it would be easier for non-modders to have a less-comprehensive tool, too.  Especially with Rick Halle going tits-up for months at a time just when he's needed (apologies for insensitivity if it turns out he's genuinely sick).

And many a time I have wished I could load SimPE with *only* the PJSE filetable rather than opening all the other core packages, for a quick tweak of an init.

The PJSE project is already published at http://sourceforge.net/projects/plj-simpe  Let me know if I have misunderstood what you were asking for, Dizzy.

[Database]

Pescado/Dizzy: I'll rip/tar that for you.

Edit: What the hell? CVS is a bitch. When's Peter going to finish porting it to SVN?

[Inge]

I've got the source zipped too, but I thought techies preferred to download from sourceforge.

Dizzy let me know what you want, how you want it, and I shall try to accommodate you.

[J. M. Pescado]

I've got the source zipped too, but I thought techies preferred to download from sourceforge.

Ugh. Sourceforge is a pain in the neck to download from, when it comes to getting actual frikken SOURCE. All this nonsense and strange Database babble. And lack of tar files.

[Inge]

Tar files indeed!  Haha if I send it to you, you'll get a .zip and learn to love it

Well I tried to upload it but it seemed to be about 100K too big for your filesize limit.

[dizzy]

Inge, use rar or 7zip.

Here's the first tool: ls. It seems to work fairly well so far.