Expansion effects on regular play

[Gus Smedstad]

I've been sporadically playing the Sims 2 again after a long hiatus, and I've been pondering the effects of the expansions.  When I first got them, of course I put them through their paces, but what about their effect in the longer term?

University has a large effect simply due to the extra want slots and the extra lock.  Actually playing college of course is another huge effect on play, though you can get the want benefits without the tedium of playing through another life stage with hacks.  The Uni-related wants are generally not interesting, and I wish the teens wouldn't roll the "go to college" want until they get within 3 days of becoming an adult.

Nightlife gives you cars, garages, and dates.  Oh, and some downtown lots that I find I don't really like.  I think if I were to create a new neighborhood I'd avoid adding a downtown entirely.  Cars and garages are pretty much unneeded, yet I find that I do really appreciate being able to put them into houses.  Prior to NL, I had trouble duplicating real house designs because the garage is usually a significant part of the layout.  Dates I'll do occasionally, but they're so easy they're difficult to make interesting.  Typically I'll hide the wants of the playable sim and open the date's wants, so the date is all about making the target Sim happy.

Open For Business has essentially no effect at all.  I find that I'd rather advance my Sims along the regular career tracks than open a business.  It doesn't help that starting a business is expensive enough that by the time I can afford it, I don't care about money anymore.  I also don't care for the fact that a community-lot business takes no sim-time, unlike the regular jobs.

I don't own pets.  I haven't picked it up because it didn't sound like it added much.  Maybe I'm wrong about that, since clearly if almost every family has a pet, it'd add change normal play significantly, just like caring for a baby or toddler does.  On the other hand, I don't really want a bunch of new useless Wants like the influence wants.

 - Gus

[Velax]

OfB can also give you new interactions, like "Motivational Speech" and "Rally Forth", that raise the Needs of others, although I find they only work on people you're friendly with.

You can also start a home business, which is much cheaper than buying another lot. If you made a home-salon, for instance, your only outlay would be the salon chair and an Open/Close sign. A home business also takes up sim-time.

Ummm.....getting pets does seem to give you a hell of a lot of pet-related Wants....my Sims seem to be bombarded with "Bonkers gets a job in Security", "Give Sigurd a hug" and so on, but that could just be because I have four pets.

Pets tend to be a lot less needy than toddlers, especially cats. Cats you can pretty much leave to do their own thing, aside from feeding.

[buddha pest]

It doesn't help that starting a business is expensive enough that by the time I can afford it, I don't care about money anymore. 

Here, here!

It really is more effort than it's worth when you can just have a couple sims have day jobs and and end up with more than enough money, what with promotions and chance cards and all.

The only benefit that I can see, is for people who might like the stopping of time on community lots, so they can rustle up a bunch of money in one shot, so their sims don't need jobs and have tons of time to goof off all the rest of the time.

[Gwill]

I don't own pets.  I haven't picked it up because it didn't sound like it added much.

As far as gameplay goes, it's definitely the least interesting EP so far.  If you don't have any pets in the family you're playing you might as well not have the game installed.  There is the wolf and werewolf spam knowlege sims tend to get, but on a lot with no trees you'll hardly ever see the wolf, and if you ignore it when it comes you won't have any lychantropy trouble.
What you will get is hovering children, flashing blue accessories, unfulfillable "buy karaokemachine" wants, all features of maxis themselves, and if you're silly enough to use the wrong version of InSim you'll get dogs pissing microwaves.

[Soylent Sim]

Pets...  yeah, largely adds pets.  If you're not looking for the whole pet experience, probably the best thing they add are the wormrat and bird, which can be nice without being as needy.  But even with the new cheats and build mode tools (basically, you get a lot of stuff to help you tear down or set up a lot much more quickly), it's not worth the sticker price.  Maybe worth $15-20 once the patch comes out.

Most of OFB's content requires some effort to unlock, as the real meat of the game isn't in the actual business dynamics, but in the things you can get from a business instead.  Business perks can give you some nice new abilities, and craftables can add some interesting new quirks to gameplay.  If you don't mind cheating a teensy bit, you can have one salesman sim who you spoon-feed money and badges to, have them buy a community lot as a general store or mall, and have your other sims buy toys, flowers, and robots there.

NL and Uni, though, you do have pretty much pegged.

[KatEnigma]

The biggest benefit, to me, from OFB is that they cleaned up the game engine and the thing runs BETTER with OFB installed than just the base game or the base game and the other expansions.  I hate Uni and never send my Sims there- the only reason I have it installed is for the objects.  I like running a business and I like the craftables, but even if I didn't, it's worthwhile just how much faster and smoother the game runs.

[Orikes]

I find that OFB gives me the least out of all the expansions as far as how I play. I really don't care much about the trying to run a business thing, hate that it screws with the time (in that the time doesn't really exist that it takes a sim to go to a community lot), and I absolutely despise the 'own five top ranked businesses' LTW. I do like the servos along with some of the toys that sims can make. I don't really regret buying the expansion, but it sure wasn't as much of an impact as Uni or NL.

Uni and NL I got very close to one another, so it's a little hard to tell which caused more of an impact on the way I play. Together, I'd say they're the most important expansions.

I get more out of Pets than I do OFB, but that's because the pets can interact on a normal daily basis with the family without taking time out to do something special. They can be integrated pretty well and as long as you remember to feed them (and bathe the dog occasionally) they don't seem too much of an energy drain.

[J. M. Pescado]

I personally rather like the ownable community lots, myself, although I suppose you could accomplish the same task with a whackload of Jeffistani paintings. But mostly, I like it because of the shiny things I've made for it. If you don't have the shiny things, then yeah, I could see it as "most useless expansion ever", seeing as businesses are basically completely inoperable without Shiny Things.

[Kaliban]

I recently imposed myself a new set of rules on what I can do or not.
The most important one is the "platinium rule": if a sim is in platinium mood, I play "normally": he does whatever I decide.
If the sim is in gold aspiration, or lower, I must follow its wants (and motives). I can't issue orders that are not in its want pannel.
Of course there are exceptions and special rules. But it anyway made the game harder, and more interesting. This rule contributed to destroy my perfectly ordered, predictable, happy neighborhood of overskilled sims. It's much more fun to play now - and the expansions became really useful.
End of personal note.

You forgot the most important uni addition: the permaplat. With this feature, you never have to satisfy wants... It was a great change from the base game, where wants were very important, and directed the game play.
I like LTWs, but find the reward unbalanced.
It would have been more interesting, I think, if reaching a LTW had given a new want slot...

[jefrir]

I rather like OFB because it gives me something to do with all those adults and elders who by halfway through adulthood have maxed all their skills, reached the top of at least one career, had all the kids they're going to have and have more money than they know what to do with. Pets I will use in much the same way - useless elders can spend their time teaching pets, rather than just being ignored until they do something stupid.

[Gus Smedstad]

Pets...  yeah, largely adds pets.  If you're not looking for the whole pet experience, probably the best thing they add are the wormrat and bird, which can be nice without being as needy.

I'm personally a cat person, and now and then I've thought about getting Pets just to get a few cats, but I'm more reflecting on how much the expansions really change normal play if you're not focusing on the new features.  My impression is that the pets don't change the game that much, but they do change normal play more than OFB does.

Most of OFB's content requires some effort to unlock, as the real meat of the game isn't in the actual business dynamics, but in the things you can get from a business instead.  Business perks can give you some nice new abilities, and craftables can add some interesting new quirks to gameplay.

I guess I'll have to look at the business perks again, because I've forgotten them.  The craftables didn't turn out to be nearly as interesting as I thought they would be.  I won't touch the snapdragons because I think they're a huge cheat, and the robots mostly don't do anything useful.  Servo is sort-of useful, but he's really not a lot different from just creating another Sim and moving them in.

I have a robot store in my neighborhood, but for the most part I never bother to go there because I don't want to buy any of them.

You forgot the most important uni addition: the permaplat. With this feature, you never have to satisfy wants...

I absolutely hate Permaplat, because the only thing I find interesting about playing most Sims is messing with their Wants.  While it was working, I used the "semi-permaplat" hack which made the LTW flag just reduce aspiration meter decay.  These days I just use the lot debugger to turn the LTW flag back off the moment a Sim fills a LTW.

 - Gus

[Sagana]

I love OFB but it's just because to me the sims is really about telling stories - it's just a huge dollhouse. If you've ever read Harriet the Spy, the sims is the ultimate expression of the town game she plays. OFB means I can simulate so much more - can set up a detective agency and solve murder mysteries or have the father get sick of business life (designing toys for cereal boxes) and subsistance farm in the middle of the city instead, or whatever.

[Morague]

Personally, I think Uni ruined the game. Perm Plat takes away the need to satisfy wants. The part I think I dislike most about Uni is that a graduate can "harvest" the career rewards. In the base game you actually had to work for them.

I'd rather see graduates only get high level entrance into their degree field, everything else they start off normal. The LTW for Perm Plat are ridiulously easy with graduates - there should perhaps be a two tiered system, one for people who don;t go to Uni & one for the grads - or - maybe I should just uninstall Uni, but then I'd lose a lot of content.

I dislike the fact that the new careers are not addressed as LTWs & EA lying about why they didn't implement it. Supposedly they didn't want to force people to go to college, but, now there are new Pet & Business related LTWs? What about the people who don't want to start 5 businesses? or have 20+ pets? They are being "forced" to complete those goals.

[jsalemi]

I'd rather see graduates only get high level entrance into their degree field, everything else they start off normal. The LTW for Perm Plat are ridiulously easy with graduates - there should perhaps be a two tiered system, one for people who don;t go to Uni & one for the grads - or - maybe I should just uninstall Uni, but then I'd lose a lot of content.

Sounds like you need Pescado's 'harderjobs' hack, which keeps grads from starting near the top of their career (but they still start higher than non-grads). Considering your other complaints/dislikes, you should probably check out his whole Director's Cut of hacks, which overall change the gameplay to be more sane.

[Soylent Sim]

I dislike the fact that the new careers are not addressed as LTWs & EA lying about why they didn't implement it. Supposedly they didn't want to force people to go to college, but, now there are new Pet & Business related LTWs? What about the people who don't want to start 5 businesses? or have 20+ pets? They are being "forced" to complete those goals.

The difference is that any sim can, at any time they chose to, start a business or buy a pet.  The player may not be that interested in a given EP's features, but at least nothing's stopping them if they feel so inclined.

The regular career LTW's (and possibly the child based ones, I don't remember how adoption plays into things) can become unattainable when your sim hits elder.  Which I guess is a bad way to go about things, but in practice unless you specifically don't want your sim to achieve their LTW, it's hard not to top off a career before then.

Uni careers, OTOH, are unavailable to all CAS adults and any natural sims you decided not to push through university.  Furthermore, as pre Renu-U aspirations were set in stone before graduation status was determined, Maxis decided not to risk shafting a good number of sims with permanently unattainable LTW's.  Things would probably be different if the aspiration change orb were available pre-Uni, or if EA were to put out a "cleaning up after ourselves" EP, but the first is counterfactual and the second woukld require stability to sell better than flash.

[Morague]

Hi

I understand that CAS sims you introduce to the game as Adults can't get Uni jobs, but, surely they could have coded the game to check for this. Any sim born in the game has the opportunity to persue a Uni LTW or not. The LTW is determined when the sim transitions to teen, so there is ample opportunity to send that sim to Uni if that's what their LTW is or not just as you can choose to start a business or not or do the 20 pets or not. Players may not be interested in persuing it but it should have been an option.

The only problem is for the CAS introduced adults & honestly, they could have coded the game to check for this.

I'm not sure I understand you point about the pre-Uni adults. Their LTWs were already set & adults can't go to Uni so i don't see how that affects anything. How would having the Orb available sooner have made any difference? Sorry, maybe I'm just being dense atm.

[jrd]

Pre-Uni Sim do not have LTWs, LTWs are new to Uni! They get a randomly rolled one. Upgrading a base game 'hood to Uni (or later of course) will result in differences in the given LTWs, especially if you don't have Pescado's sanity fixes.

There are many ways EAMaxis could have done it so existing adults who never went to Uni never got an ineligible LTW, but instead they opted to remove the LTWs completely.

Squinge has a mod which adds LTWs for the four uni careers, but as it requires altering base game files it is patch- and mulitple accounts-unfriendly.

[V]

Is there any chance that a less invasive^* "unlocking of the LTWs" patch/hack or whatever may be available some time in the future? It is pointless to put a sim on a career track that is not going to help them achieve a life goal.



^*Read: More Awesome and who is "Squinge"? For too long I thought "Squinge" was just another name for "Inge", but I have since noticed that they are actually different people. Is he a rival of Inge or a "squeeze" of Inge? Will I find this information if I just keep quiet and continue reading? Can you give me a hint?

[jrd]

Squinge is one of the most productive modders. He will do just about everything you request. Squinge's forum.

While his mods tend to do exactly what he says and work quite well, many of them conflict with other mods (including mods made by himself!), and you cannot just get them all. I use about 20 of his mods carefully selected myself.

New LTWs mod

[Soylent Sim]

Sims who were created pre-uni really don't factor into this discussion; as soon as the EP is added, they're treated as if they were CAS sims.

Even assuming that the game did reserve unicareer LTW's for "eligible" sims (ones born in game, or ones created at YA or younger), you have to keep in mind that at the time of Uni, there were three times aspiration (and as such LTW) could be set.  They could be set at creation (if the sim were a teen or older), at the moment a born in game sim ages to teenager, or at the end of a sim's sophomore year of college.  Ignoring adults and elders as ineligible for the moment, the latest a sim's LTW could be set would be while they were still in college.  And while in practice the hardest part about university is putting up with the boredeom, in theory the game has to account for sims who either fail/drop out (thus stuck with an unfufillable LTW for the rest of their lives), or else simply chose not to go to college (ditto).  This as opposed to raising a pet or starting a business, which any sim can do unless dead.  So even if the game were set up to check for unicareer eligibility, at the time the unicareers and whole college mechanic were released there was no way to guarantee that a sim with one would be eligible; the last chance to reroll a crummy LTW was long gone by the time a sim's graduation status was set.

The way an earlier orb would change things would be that if the renu-u orb existed pre-Uni, it would be trivial to change aspiration at any point, and as such to reroll an unwanted LTW.  If adults/elders could pick up a new LTW through reasonable means, it would be much more reasonable for the unicareers to exist as special LTW's that needed to pass a check, as again there would exist sims who were rolling new LTW's and who were clearly graduates.  But as of the time of Uni, the only way to reroll a LTW after one became an unequivocally graduated adult was to satisfy your prior LTW, and while Maxis did cut a corner there, you have to admit there's less reason to care about secondary and later LTW's once permaplat is already in play.

[Gwill]

Do the game creators care in any way if a LTW is fulfillable?
I've had a family Servo who wanted to celebrate his Golden Anniversary.  Is that possible for someone who will never be an elder?

[V]

Plenty of sims are stuck with an unattainable LTW whether they went to college or not. What about all those pre-uni elders who suddenly want to be Criminal Masterminds? Prior to LTW variety, etc, they were just out of luck.

That doesn't seem to be a good reason why they can't aspire to reach the tops of the uni careers.

It also isn't reasonable to expect that anyone with no higher education can become a Mad Scientist or Chief of Staff, but you must attend college in order to become a movie star or a psychic phone pal (whatever the top of that career is).

I don't mind taking several steps to put a hack in, but I am concerned about the process of updating the EP. The removal and clean up prior to updating the EP seems to require multiple steps and probably needs concentration.

[Dark Trepie]

I feel that Uni and NL provides the meat and bones to my game currently.  Uni provided some rather useful things, as did NL.  But if I had to choose between the two I'd take NL over Uni anyday.  Uni needs NL to really shine.  Its a one sided symbiosis between those two.

For OFB, I usually choose three families in the hood to open up businesses based on the three types of crafts (floral, toys, robotics) and let them supply the rest of the hood with them.  Then I usually forget about businesses all together.  Unless of course I have a permaplat sim with all skills maxed that I'm bored out of my mind with.  Then I'll make them open up a book store of car dealership or something.

As for Petz.  I see no real usefulness to it yet.  Diagonal roofs are nice I suppose.  About the only thing I really like in this ep is the monorail you can put in your hoods as a decoration.  Fitting one in between the two main roads in Strangetown is a pain in the ass however.  But doable with a steady hand and patience.

[jrd]

The college part of Uni is EA Games' forgotten stepchild. It hasn't seen any changes since Uni, and none of its improvements (synchronous time [sort of]), a CAS with individual last names, rental homes, etc., have made it to the basic game play.

Pets is a builder's dream. Rotatable floor tiles (no more "bathroom tiles" which are sideways), diagonal and octagonal room building in one go, diagonal roofs, individual roof slopes, etc.. I love those.

[Gus Smedstad]

Uni needs NL to really shine.

What's your reasoning?  Groups?  The two don't seem to have much synergy otherwise to me, but I agree that it's good that you can take more than one person in the dorm to the library without having to take everyone.

 - Gus