Pinstar's new Apocalypse challenge

[Jelenedra]

I don't really see how FT rules would change anything, other than you can't sell craftable hobby items. Sewing and pottery, at least, would be something that wouldn't have restrictions on it as it is all manual. Bird watching and star-gazing would be restricted until the Science? (the one that clears out the skies) restriction is released.

[Kyna]

Wouldn't sewing be covered by restrictions on decorative items (artist) & clothing restrictions (show biz)?  Pottery would also be covered by decorative restrictions.

The bigger question around FT is the perks.  Given that the perks are mood boosters, they can't be available early in the challenge but would need to be lifted at some time during the challenge (as all restrictions are by the end), so when would they be lifted?  I suppose looking at their effects and the restrictions you could work out something in keeping with the challenge: e.g. a perk that reduces hygiene drain couldn't be chosen until medical was lifted.

Some of the FT perks are overpowering for the early stages of this challenge - e.g. the food value of the family perk comfort soup (since it requires no cooking skill), not to mention the knowledge perks for faster skill building or to pass skills on (particularly if your founder had been a highly skilled YA).

Then there's the "boo yeah, what a great week" updates - they also generate an ongoing mood effect, and cannot be avoided.  Given this, it is likely that FT broke this challenge.

[Insanity Prelude]

Comfort soup would obviously be covered by the Culinary restriction. As for the knowledge perks... Education?

Didn't FT add new careers too, or am I getting it mixed up with another EP? At this point the challenge would just be crazy complicated. 

(As for the "great week" mood boost- you survived a week in a fallout zone. I guess you'd feel a bit accomplished.)

[Bleached]

Comfort soup would obviously be covered by the Culinary restriction. As for the knowledge perks... Education?

Didn't FT add new careers too, or am I getting it mixed up with another EP? At this point the challenge would just be crazy complicated. 

(As for the "great week" mood boost- you survived a week in a fallout zone. I guess you'd feel a bit accomplished.)

Yeah, there's several careers, like oceanography, , architecture, intelligence, and dance. I don't even want to try to think up restrictions for some of those.

[HomeschooledByTards]

Yeah, there's several careers, like oceanography, , architecture, intelligence, and dance. I don't even want to try to think up restrictions for some of those.

I don't know all of the rules for this challenge. It's entirely possible that these restrictions are already covered by other careers or rules.

Oceanography = No beach lots
Architecture = No houses/no houses other than a small box/other restrictions on houses
Intelligence = No school? No telescopes? (They can be used to gather intelligence on neighbors activities during the day)
Dance = No clubs or no stereos

[Kyna]

Yeah, there's several careers, like oceanography, , architecture, intelligence, and dance. I don't even want to try to think up restrictions for some of those.

I don't know all of the rules for this challenge. It's entirely possible that these restrictions are already covered by other careers or rules.

Oceanography = No beach lots
Architecture = No houses/no houses other than a small box/other restrictions on houses
Intelligence = No school? No telescopes? (They can be used to gather intelligence on neighbors activities during the day)
Dance = No clubs or no stereos

Here's my thoughts:

• Oceanography - no beach lots makes sense, but in a residential sense it could never be lifted, since you're not supposed to move your Apocalypse family.  They're supposed to stay on the same lot until the end of the challenge.
• Architecture - it makes a lot of sense to move most of the Politics restrictions to Architecture.  However you'd have to come up with new restrictions for Politics.
• Intelligence - "No school" couldn't be done, as you'd lose your 6s to the social worker.  "No telescopes" is already covered by Natural Science.  Maybe instead you could limit the skill points that 0s, 6s and 12s could earn to no more than 3 or 4 in each skill?  Another restriction could be that you can't ask other sims any of those ask questions - e.g. what is your job
• Dance - one stereo (the cheap boom box) is allowed by the original rules, as this was the only way to train the first few body points.  AL introduced skipping for equipment-less body points, but if you only had up to FT (and no AL) I'm not sure how you would be able to train body as yoga isn't available until you have 3 or 4 body points.  You could move the restriction on better stereos from science to dance.
• Entertainment - some of the Show Business restrictions could be moved to Entertainment, such as the restrictions on parties, outings and scored dates.  The vanity related restrictions (i.e. change appearance, change clothing, buy clothing, makeover chair) would stay with Show Business.
  

[J. M. Pescado]

Then there's the "boo yeah, what a great week" updates - they also generate an ongoing mood effect, and cannot be avoided.  Given this, it is likely that FT broke this challenge.

As far as I can tell, the "great week" updates are, at best, 1% antimotive decay. A sim would need to experience 80+ great weeks to really make a difference. The motive decay perks only serve to slightly differentiate sim motive decays. At 7% or so apiece, they do not represent any major shift in planning, other than perhaps giving your sim an extra hour or two before he pees his pants.

[Zazazu]

Yeah, there's several careers, like oceanography, , architecture, intelligence, and dance. I don't even want to try to think up restrictions for some of those.

I don't know all of the rules for this challenge. It's entirely possible that these restrictions are already covered by other careers or rules.

Oceanography = No beach lots
Architecture = No houses/no houses other than a small box/other restrictions on houses
Intelligence = No school? No telescopes? (They can be used to gather intelligence on neighbors activities during the day)
Dance = No clubs or no stereos

Here's my thoughts:

• Oceanography - no beach lots makes sense, but in a residential sense it could never be lifted, since you're not supposed to move your Apocalypse family.  They're supposed to stay on the same lot until the end of the challenge.

No fishing? I believe that's covered by a past restriction, but it could be one that has to be doubly unlocked.

[J. M. Pescado]

• Dance - one stereo (the cheap boom box) is allowed by the original rules, as this was the only way to train the first few body points.  AL introduced skipping for equipment-less body points, but if you only had up to FT (and no AL) I'm not sure how you would be able to train body as yoga isn't available until you have 3 or 4 body points.  You could move the restriction on better stereos from science to dance.

Well, sure, except better stereos have no functional worth: A cheap stereo works just as well as an expensive one in pretty much every imagineable way.

Another interesting thing worth mentioning is that there are presently, as far as I know, no rules regarding the use of magic. There is thus considerably interesting potential to use magic in the challenge.

[Mandapotpie]

Maybe Intelligence could unlock witches. Until you become the head of SCIA, you don't know about the existence of craft users?

Then again, being a witch doesn't do a hell of a lot of good without reagents, and they would still be covered until you unlock craftable items.

[J. M. Pescado]

Strictly speaking, the rule doesn't even mention witchcraft reagents, as these are purchaseable items and not pure craftables, and the cauldron is not a bench and does not depend on a supply line. As far as I can tell, there's no rule legislating it at all. Admittedly, it's also not too useful and takes up a lot of space as an industry.

[rohina]

Yes, but making the chair of witchy goodness would be very helpful.

[Callista]

How about having Dance ban yoga instead of stereos?

Suggestion for Intelligence: Teaching toddler skills (walk/talk/potty/nursery rhyme); move passing along business perks.

If we came up with a good set of rules, I guess we could suggest that they become the official set?

Oh, and Paranormal needs to ban some or all of the magic stuff from AL. Architecture could set restrictions on apartments, but I'm not sure whether that would actually be any kind of handicap. somebody who has AL will have to chip in on that one.

[rohina]

Given that AL (or was it FT) gave options to dance without music, plus Slow Dance that came with NL, Dance should probably unlock those.

[Bleached]

Given that AL (or was it FT) gave options to dance without music, plus Slow Dance that came with NL, Dance should probably unlock those.

And maybe only solo dancing, because dancing with someone else gives a social bonus.

[kalina]

Here's my thoughts:

• Oceanography - no beach lots makes sense, but in a residential sense it could never be lifted, since you're not supposed to move your Apocalypse family.  They're supposed to stay on the same lot until the end of the challenge.
• Architecture - it makes a lot of sense to move most of the Politics restrictions to Architecture.  However you'd have to come up with new restrictions for Politics.
• Intelligence - "No school" couldn't be done, as you'd lose your 6s to the social worker.  "No telescopes" is already covered by Natural Science.  Maybe instead you could limit the skill points that 0s, 6s and 12s could earn to no more than 3 or 4 in each skill?  Another restriction could be that you can't ask other sims any of those ask questions - e.g. what is your job
• Dance - one stereo (the cheap boom box) is allowed by the original rules, as this was the only way to train the first few body points.  AL introduced skipping for equipment-less body points, but if you only had up to FT (and no AL) I'm not sure how you would be able to train body as yoga isn't available until you have 3 or 4 body points.  You could move the restriction on better stereos from science to dance.
• Entertainment - some of the Show Business restrictions could be moved to Entertainment, such as the restrictions on parties, outings and scored dates.  The vanity related restrictions (i.e. change appearance, change clothing, buy clothing, makeover chair) would stay with Show Business.
  

May be Politics can unlock the ability to select stuff with the Lifetime Aspiration points and second aspiration?

[Kyna]

May be Politics can unlock the ability to select stuff with the Lifetime Aspiration points and second aspiration?

Ooh, that's a good idea.  Those restrictions could also be limited by other things (as mentioned earlier in the thread). 

Politics could work like the Law career - before you lift Politics those other restrictions could only be temporarily lifted (i.e. by sims currently alive), but if they're unlocked after Politics, the restrictions can be permanently lifted, including for sims not yet born.

[Bleached]

May be Politics can unlock the ability to select stuff with the Lifetime Aspiration points and second aspiration?

Ooh, that's a good idea.  Those restrictions could also be limited by other things (as mentioned earlier in the thread). 

Politics could work like the Law career - before you lift Politics those other restrictions could only be temporarily lifted (i.e. by sims currently alive), but if they're unlocked after Politics, the restrictions can be permanently lifted, including for sims not yet born.

I like that idea. What if the first two columns, the Needs and Work columns were affected by Politics, and there could be various others, depending on the aspiration of the sim. Lifting that restriction could open up that aspiration's benefits, and the ability for it to be chosen as a secondary aspiration. Knowledge could be Education, Popularity could be Slacker, Wealth could be Business, Pleasure could be Slacker, Romance could be Show Business, and maybe Family could be Law Enforcement. I'm not too sure about the last one though.

[Callista]

I'm not sure if anybody wants to add another layer of difficulty... but if you're moving Politics restrictions to Architecture, you could say that anti-discrimination laws have vanished; and sims are limited from birth to certain careers by their social class or caste or whatever odd reasoning people use to divide people into categories...

To select the allowed careers for your sim, before he ever takes a job, look at that day's newspaper. The three jobs there are the only careers tracks he can ever enter. Remember that if the Journalism restriction is still in place, he can only enter one of those three career tracks if that job is the first in the paper (or on the computer if Science is lifted.)

I don't know if that's too restrictive. It would certainly make the whole challenge harder; but I've seen people lift all the restrictions in four generations before... maybe it needs to be a little harder. You'd balance spamming babies and hoping they got the right careers against having too many babies before somebody got lucky enough to lift culinary restrictions.

Oceanography should ban swimming and ponds as well as beach lots and fishing.

[Kyna]

I don't know if that's too restrictive. It would certainly make the whole challenge harder; but I've seen people lift all the restrictions in four generations before... maybe it needs to be a little harder.

Four generations?  I know people who have done it in two, including myself.  I used a vamped female founder.  She didn't lift any of the restrictions, they were all lifted by her children.  That was when the challenge was new, before later EPs added further rules.

[Callista]

OK, four generations without vampires.

[Kyna]

There's more than one way to play this challenge in under 4 generations.  There were some interesting strategy discussions earlier in this thread.

For two generations without vampires:

Actually you may not need vampirism to unlock all restrictions in two generations. One of reasons why I started with NS first wasn't snapdragons (because at the time I didn't realise they would have the effect they did have) but was that since alien abductions were such a random thing the sooner the stargazing started the better.  As it happened it was the third restriction unlocked and my founder has been living on elixer since then.

For three generations (excerpt from a lengthy, but interesting post - I've bolded the relevant part):

It's not possible to have children too fast in this challenge. It's Day 37 PA in my current attempt and my founder has birthed six children and has one grandchild. Four tracks are unlocked (Medical, Science, Military and Culinary) and it is literally down to counting days between pregnancies. Nothing else that will unlock will have any bearing on how fast I complete this challenge so the order in which the unlocks occur is irrelevant. Oh, having some more tracks unlocked will make simming them easier but it won't speed up the completion of the challenge. This is the flaw in Pinstar's set-up: once the basics are covered, the rate at which you birth the first heir of each generation balanced against the rate of siblings produced by previous generations is the overall governor on completion speed. Since you've unlimited room in college for YAs, there is no need for more than 3 generations. That gives six unlocks so you need eight siblings and you're done. Do the math and you'll get a fair idea of how long the challenge should take.

Disclaimer: these are posts discussing the original challenge (i.e. covering EPs up to & including OFB).

[Callista]

Adult start's slower. You can't start by unlocking NS obviously, so you have to unlock military, education, and either law enforcement or animal showbiz before anyone can go to college, which adds at least one generation.

[Jelenedra]

Am I mistaken, but can't you unlock NS with your founder if you start off in Uni?

[J. M. Pescado]

Yes, but they were talking about not starting in Uni.