Oh woe is me: Upgrading my RAM

[kutto]

Here's the deal. I have a Dell Optiplex GX400. I need to upgrade my RAM, at least up to 1G (These loading times have finally cracked me). I've been told that the RAM I require is PC800 RDRAM RIMM, possibly ECC. I can do without the ECC, I don't care about it. What this comes down to is that this kind of RAM is dreadfully costly. The best deal I've found for 1g is around $200! Isn't RAM supposed to be cheap?

So here's my questions. What do you think is my best course of action? Where do you go for your RAM? Should it be this expensive? If no one can answer them, at least I feel better now that I've vented a little.

[Gwill]

Is that for one 1GB stick?

How many RAM slots do you have?  It might be cheaper to buy a bunch of 512MB sticks.

Being Norwegian I'm not going to make any judgement on the price.

[kutto]

That price is for two sticks of 512, adding up to 1G. They call it a kit.

I have 4 slots. If I remember correctly, two are open, but I'm not going to open it up just yet. Right now I have 256 total.

[Gwill]

Oh yeah, they have to be installed in pairs if I remember correctly, so I assume that means you currently have two 128MB sticks...

I think you'll just have to go with that price.  RAM is cheap; RDRAM is crazy expansive.

What's the specs on the rest of your computer?  I'm curious as to why it uses RDram.

[Ambular]

Ack, I just looked it up and it appears that RDRAM is really fast but a pain in the neck in just about every other possible way.  And looking at the specs on the Optiplex GX400, I see it's what, about a 2001 vintage machine?

You might do better to save your money, deal with the load times a while longer and upgrade to a whole new system.  For $500 (or less) you could get a significantly better machine all around, and without the exotic, expensive upgrade requirements.

[Aldebaran]

I still use RDRAMs as well, and they are crazy expensive because they are no longer produced. If you want to go for the cheaper RAMs, it might require to change your motherboard, and with that the CPU, because the slots for DDR are different than RDRAMs and they won't fit.

RDRAM was introduced back in 2000-2001, these are the RAMs used in various consoles, but eventually DDR took over the market and Rambus for the PC was discontinued. I still use the best motherboard for RDRAM and have 1gb of it, with a 3ghz P4 processor, but this is the limit. The old motherboards that still use RDRAM limit your videocards (mine allows for 4x AGP, it currently holds a 8x card, but most are PCI-E anyway and the newer ones doesn't even have an AGP version) and CPU (3ghz is max), so for now it might be enough, but later you'll have to update anyway. I'm sticking with it, because I like it how this old 5 year old junk is faster than most modern PCs, but if you can't and won't tinker / sacrifice time to find parts for it, I'd advise to save up money and buy an up-to-date system with DDR rams. Those are cheap

*geek out*

[Hegelian]

RDRAM was basically a boondoggle foisted on the buying public when Intel stupidly signed an exclusive-use agreement with Rambus Inc. by which all new Intel platforms (through 2002) would use RDRAM exclusively—the i820 and i850 chipsets for the Pentium 4, for example. For a variety of reasons, RDRAM was absurdly expensive and underperforming.

If your motherboard requires RDRAM, that's what you're stuck with. As others have mentioned, it would be far better to spend a bit more on a new, current machine in the $500-600 range than to waste your money on RDRAM, especially since RDRAM modules need to be installed in pairs, or you need to install a blank "C-RIMM" in place of the second module.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDRAM
FTC Finds Rambus Unlawfully Obtained Monopoly Power

[Gwill]

If the computer is that old, the only way it's going to be worth upgrading is if you buy cheap used parts.

[kutto]

Sigh. Somewhat afraid of that. Changing computers for me is a lot like moving houses. Would it be possible to get a new motherboard (and therefore, new RAM) without getting a new hard drive? I've never actually thought about that before, so I don't know if it's possible. If not, how new of a computer would you reccomend? Money always seems to tight for me (then again, I'm quite frugal), and I don't wish to completely splurge on something like this.

Before I go on any further, I'd like to say thanks for all your advice so far. I greatly appreciate anyone who helps me with technical issues.

[J. M. Pescado]

Sigh. Somewhat afraid of that. Changing computers for me is a lot like moving houses. Would it be possible to get a new motherboard (and therefore, new RAM) without getting a new hard drive?

Yes. It is generally not necessary to buy new drives of any type when switching motherboards, although you may need to repair your Windoze install since Windoze is stupid and freaks out when you replace the motherboard.

[kutto]

Freaks out? Are we talking BFBVFS level of freaking out? Or maybe a few hours of clicking and waiting?

[Hegelian]

I have replaced one or possibly two motherboards without reinstalling Windows. The important thing is to install the chipset drivers for the new motherboard. With most boards, updated drivers can be found on the manufacturer's Web site. If you have an Intel chipset, you can get a unified driver package from the Intel Web site.

This is probably moot, however, since Dell uses proprietary motherboards that fit into their proprietary cases. Sometimes an after-market motherboard will fit, but often it will not. Furthermore, Dell has been known to use proprietary power supplies with non-standard wiring, so that plugging a Dell PSU into an after-market motherboard can fry the motherboard.

Here's the thing. If you buy a new motherboard, you're also going to need to buy new RAM, and possibly a new CPU as well, as at this point it could be difficult to find a motherboard that will accept your old CPU, which is probably the discontinued Socket 423 (current P4s are Socket 478 or LGA 775); for example, Newegg doesn't stock any Socket 423 motherboards. Then you might need a new case and power supply; the GX400 motherboard looks like the I/O shield is attached rather than snapping into the case like a standard I/O shield, and it looks to be larger than standard as well.

Now you have a new PC, but with lower performance and possibly for greater cost than a new entry-level PC from Dell, Gateway, HP, or Acer. You can get a pretty nice PC for about $550 shipped that will probably outperform by a significant margin anything you could upgrade to using the parts you have. Such a PC will have integrated graphics, but the graphics performance probably won't be worse—and may even be better if you're using the original graphics board—than what you have now, certainly good enough until you can afford to get a PCI-E graphics board.

There comes a time in every PC's life when it just isn't cost effective (or even possible) to upgrade it further. I believe your Optiplex has reached that stage. It was introduced in March 2001, and sold for $1299 in its base configuration:

Dell OptiPlexGX400

"Dell has recently announced the OptiPlex GX400, its first Pentium 4-powered desktop computer tailored specifically for corporate and institutional users. Priced in line with Dell's Pentium III-based OptiPlex systems, the midnight-gray OptiPlex GX400 is the fastest and most powerful OptiPlex desktop system and is available immediately in the U.S. and Canada. At the heart of the GX400 is the Intel Pentium 4 processor, the most powerful microprocessor ever featured in a Dell OptiPlex system. Featuring the Intel 850 chipset and Rambus memory, the GX 400 will initially be available with the Pentium 4 processor at 1.3 and 1.4 GHz with 256KB Advanced Transfer Cache memory, up to 2 GB RDRAM and hard drives and up to 40 GB in capacity to meet the needs of the high-performance desktop computer users. The OptiPlex GX400 features an award-winning, midnight gray OptiFrame mini-tower chassis designed for maximum expansion capacity and easy accessibility. The GX400 features integrated audio and supports a wide variety of AGP video and PCI audio options. Designed for maximum manageability, the OptiPlex GX400 also features Dell's LegacySelect Technology Control, which allows IT managers to enable or disable any combination of parallel, serial ports, and floppy drives to provide the right balance of functionality and IT control for each workgroup.

"Immediately available in the U.S. and Canada, prices start at $1,299 for an OptiPlex GX400 that includes an Intel Pentium 4 processor at 1.3 GHz, 128 MB PC600 RDRAM, 10 GB hard disk drive, integrated 10/100 networking and audio, NVIDIA TNT2 Pro 16MB AGP card, 1.44 MB floppy disk and CDROM drives."
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/archives/march01_06.shtml

In case you're curious, there are a bunch of Optiplex GX400s on eBay right now for less than $100.

[J. M. Pescado]

I have replaced one or possibly two motherboards without reinstalling Windows. The important thing is to install the chipset drivers for the new motherboard. With most boards, updated drivers can be found on the manufacturer's Web site. If you have an Intel chipset, you can get a unified driver package from the Intel Web site.

I have never found that to be the case, and no information I've found suggests this is possible if you replace the motherboard with a different one. You can't "install" any drivers because the Windoze will not boot and crashes immediately if you attempt to start up after changing to a different motherboard, until you reinstall Windoze off the CD.

[Paperbladder]

That thing could run TS2?  I had a computer that had similar specs to that but it hung during the last part of the setup.  Then again, it also had Windows ME on it.

[kutto]

In case you're curious, there are a bunch of Optiplex GX400s on eBay right now for less than $100.

Yeah, about that. That's how I came about my computer in the first place. 

That thing could run TS2?  I had a computer that had similar specs to that but it hung during the last part of the setup.  Then again, it also had Windows ME on it.

This "thing" runs fine. Between loading times, even the Sims runs smoothly. Plus, I'm running 2000, not ME.


Okay, now back to pinching pennies, and time. Tell me if this will work. I buy a new compy (reccomendations still welcome), take my hard drive out of my old one, and put it into my new one and set it as my primary drive, with the HD that came with it (hopefully) as a slave. If I can't just plop it in there, I have a friend who owns a computer repair place who can transfer my files, as he did with this one. Once all is complete, sell my old compy for a quick $100 (again, hopefully).

[Hegelian]

I have replaced one or possibly two motherboards without reinstalling Windows. The important thing is to install the chipset drivers for the new motherboard. With most boards, updated drivers can be found on the manufacturer's Web site. If you have an Intel chipset, you can get a unified driver package from the Intel Web site.

I have never found that to be the case, and no information I've found suggests this is possible if you replace the motherboard with a different one. You can't "install" any drivers because the Windoze will not boot and crashes immediately if you attempt to start up after changing to a different motherboard, until you reinstall Windoze off the CD.

I suppose I could be mis-remembering. It has been a few years since the last time I replaced a motherboard on an XP machine, and I may have taken the opportunity to re-install the OS at the same time. OTOH it might be possible to do a "refresh" or repair install of Windows XP from the CD without having to do a clean install (although if you've got the time a clean install is always better).

[MxxPwr]

Okay, now back to pinching pennies, and time. Tell me if this will work. I buy a new compy (reccomendations still welcome), take my hard drive out of my old one, and put it into my new one and set it as my primary drive, with the HD that came with it (hopefully) as a slave. If I can't just plop it in there, I have a friend who owns a computer repair place who can transfer my files, as he did with this one. Once all is complete, sell my old compy for a quick $100 (again, hopefully).

Same principle, but easier on a new PC:
Install the old HDD as the slave. Keep the new HDD as the boot drive. XP, which should be on your new PC, should add the old hdd as a drive named a subsequent letter from your boot drive. On new PC's that can be something crazy down the line like drive 'K'

Anyway, at this point, the files can be transferred like you were saying above.

[J. M. Pescado]

I suppose I could be mis-remembering. It has been a few years since the last time I replaced a motherboard on an XP machine, and I may have taken the opportunity to re-install the OS at the same time. OTOH it might be possible to do a "refresh" or repair install of Windows XP from the CD without having to do a clean install (although if you've got the time a clean install is always better).

Doing a repair/refresh install works, but does not eliminate the underlying problem of having to reinstall, thus breaking a bunch of stuff you now have to fix.

[Gwill]

What I've done every time I've got a new computer, is to mouunt my old harddrive as a slave, and slowly re-introduce parts of it to the new shiny disk.
It used to take me forever to make a fresh computer feel like home, but now I can do it in a few days.

[J. M. Pescado]

What I've done every time I've got a new computer, is to mouunt my old harddrive as a slave, and slowly re-introduce parts of it to the new shiny disk.
It used to take me forever to make a fresh computer feel like home, but now I can do it in a few days.

I don't ever buy "new computers". I buy parts of a new computer that my old computer doesn't have, and assemble a computer out of those parts. I already have a CD drive, and a hard drive, so I do not buy another one. At some point I will replace some of those components, and if they still function, those parts go into the old parts bin. At some point the used parts become capable of forming a new computer, so I do so and install Linux on it.

[Gwill]

My current computer is only likely to be expanded and upgraded, not replaced.
My old one was a toaster, and the cabinet just wasn't made for serious modifying.

[angelyne]

As others have pointed out, the most cost effective solution for you is to upgrade to a new system.  However, there are many different scenarios for transferring your data.

If you absolutely wish to keep your current setup, you can make a ghost image of your current drive and then restore it to your new computer.   If you have (or can borrow) a large external disk drive, that might be the easiest solution.  This is assuming you can access the USB drive in DOS, as you can only ghost a drive in DOS.

If you don't have a USB drive, you can install the old drive into your new machine and do a disk to disk transfer using ghost.  The thing is, your new computer is likely to be a sata drive, while your old drive is likely to be an IDE drive.  So the whole concept of "slaving" a drive doesn't apply here. (Actually that's a pretty outdated concept.  It refers to installing a second drive on an existing IDE port, something that you rarely do nowadays.).  The easiest way to do it is to unplug your IDE DVD drive, from your new system (just the cables, don't remove the drive), and plug in your old drive in its place.  Then you can ghost the old drive over the new drive, being very very very very careful not to overwrite the old drive with the new drive (wiping out EVERYTHING).

That might or might not work.  After cloning a drive with an image from a totally different system, you sometimes get a blue screen and are unable to boot properly, as the drivers are too incompatible.  In that case you can do a sysprep on the old system, prior to ghosting it.  That will force the system to redetect and reinstall all drivers when you boot up the freshly installed drive in the new system.

As you can see, transferring your operating system from one system to the other can get pretty complicated.

Personally I would recommend you don't do it.  I know starting from scratch can be painful, but just like spring cleaning; it's something that needs to be done once in a while.

Starting from scratch certainly doesn't mean loosing everything however.

The easiest (and cleanest) scenario is for you to purchase a new computer. Install all your software on it.  Hook it up to your router (or a cross-link cable, if you don't have a router) and transfer the data from one to the other.  To minimize the pain of starting over, and make things easy, there is one easy way to transfer data.  You should only do this if you were running windows XP on your old GX400. Log in your new computer using a different account that the one you plan to use.  Connect to your old machine (over the network, using a cable or the router).  Locate your profile folder.  It should be in c:\documents and settings\profilename.  Delete the profile on your new computer (there's nothing in it yet right?) and copy your old profile over.  The profile names must be the same.  When you log back in, everything will be like it was on your old computer; data, favorites, desktop, etc.

You will still need to reinstall all your software however.  But once you do all your settings will have been retained.

I have gone one step further than this.  I have divided my drive in two partitions.  One partition contains the operating system and programs, the other my profile.  Whenever I feel the urge to reinstall, I just overwrite the C: partition with my previously saved clean ghost image. I change the registery to point to my profile on the D: drive and voila.  A clean system with minimum fuss.

[kutto]

Okay, you've all been so helpful, and I only need one last thing. Which brand of computer should I buy? What kind are you using, and do you like it? I'm only looking for about 1 gig of RAM, and I'll use my old HDD, even if I must reformat it. I'm looking for cost-effectiveness at the moment. I don't need top of the line, I just need a little over minimum. Once I get this answer, I'll be done (I hope).

[KittKitt]

Personally, I can't stand "brand systems".  The ones that use quality parts cost far more than they should, and the ones that offer you an "affordable and easy out-of-the-box" solution use sub-standard components.

Ideally, you should pair up with someone who knows at least a fair amount about hardware, then spend a couple days going through some independant product reviews for various components.  Weigh the pro's and con's and make informed decisions which match your performance tolerances with your budget, and then (again with the help of your hardware savvy friend), you simply build it yourself.

The result is a computer that out-performs anything you can pre-buy for the same price, and is far more upgrade-friendly as well as just made of far superior stuff to 90% or more of the pre-done systems offered by the "big boys".

However, this solution isn't suitable to everyone, and if you simply can't be arsed to invest that kind of time, nor do you have access to any friends/family who know their stuff well enough to attempt this approach, then I suppose the next best thing would be to browse several maker's systems that meet your combined performance/budget limitations and read independant (and hopefully unbiased) reviews of those.

It won't tell you exactly what's going to be perfect for you, but if 75% of people who bought "system X" utterly hated it and it blew up in a couple months, you'll be one step closer to at least knowing what might not be a particularly grand choice.

Sorry if it's not terribly helpful, but as someone who's built my own systems since back in the days of the 8088, it's about the best advice I can really offer without spending about a week trying to explain far more techno-geek babble than I'm sure you'd care to hear in the first place. 

-Kitt

[kutto]

I'd like to build my own system, and I have knowledgable friends, but I always figured that would be the most expensive route. Am I wrong to think this?