Blank want icons since OFB - should I worry?

[cwykes]

I'm getting more blank want Icons than I like since OFB.   I'm not sure if I have a conflict of some kinds hiding the icons, or if I have a really problem to worry about. Any suggestions?  Anyone else got the same issue?

I can usually see what the want is if I hover over the icon with the mouse.  When I satisfy it, something visible often rolls up.
It's not any particular want icon that's always missing, just randomly "talk to SimA", "play with SimA" or something like that.  It isn't always the same sim either.  It happens more when I've been playing a long time, but yesterday I had a sim with blank wants as soon as I started the game - not a new sim. 

[J. M. Pescado]

This is usually some kind of data file corruption, so yes, you should start to panic now.

[ZephyrZodiac]

I was getting these too, and had to do an enormous amount of editing in SimPE, but it can be fixed if you get to it in time.

[cwykes]

Oh Rats!  I was really hoping you weren't going to say that...  So what sort of editing are we talking about?  I've done the deleting of unlinked memories already.  I can go round that again.  I think there may be a few duplicate Sims hanging around to get rid of.  Remains of moving an occupied lot in and out of the lot bin a few times.  What else should I look at?

This is the same hood I lost before when I managed to delete all the memories during a clean up attempt!  I went back to a 3 month old back up after a suitable mourning period.  It's a big well played hood, but since I don't have Uni, it's not overpopulated. I was hoping adding OFB would solve any potential size problems anyway.

[ZephyrZodiac]

I'm not that sure, but deleting the SWAFs without an owner seemed to work in my case, plus all the unknown relationships - x towards unknown, or unknown towards x or unknown towards unknown.  But if you've done that already, you need advice from someone much more awesome than me!

[Ancient Sim]

This happened to me when I reinstalled the entire game on my new PC.  I just uninstalled OFB and reinstalled it and everythng was fine again.  I would certainly try this before messing about removing mods or whatever, as it's far less time-consuming (about 4 minutes in my case).  Whenever I've had problems with missing icons of any kind, reinstalling the last expansion has always fixed it.  I've never been able to solve it by replacing the objects package, but reinstalling has always worked.

[cwykes]

Thanks Ancient Sim, I'll try that.  Maybe I just got a bad install - much more comforting idea than a soon to explode 'hood!   
I guess SWAF is the Sim wants and fears?  I've never noticed ownerless wants before, but I'll have a look at them in SimPE before I re-install.

[ZephyrZodiac]

If you did a DAC, or got rid of any annoying townies by any means other than death and a tombstone, then even if you think you've removed everything from their relationship panel and memories, there can be the remains of their wants and fears left behind, and also in the list of relationships they can still be listed as an unknown.  Easiest check for SWAFs is, say you have 400 character files, and 425 SWAFs, then you have this problem, as the numbers should match.

[cwykes]

Nope never got rid of any townies at all.  Without Uni they aren't really a problem.  I got notownieregen into my game while the number was still reasonable and I'm sort of attached to all of them now.  I used the tombstone of L&D to move most of them into lots and play them. One or two of the last batch had fairly serious missing wants problems at the time, that went away.  Now they are some of my favourites and the townie kids are growing up like normal sims.  I've only had two or three Sims die in the entire time I've been playing - old age while I wasn't paying attention.  The only really stupid thing I've done is move an occupied lot into the lots and houses bin while I rearranged the 'hood and then put it back. (Well the only stupid thing I'm aware of!)   I'll go count the SWAF files though - never looked at them before.

JM said it sounded like data corruption.  Going from that I think that could either be corruption in my game files (clean up and panic) or in the game files (re-install and check for conflicts).  Thanks for the help ZZ.  I have a simmer friend on another board with a similar problem, so I want to get a handle on it for her as well.  She has a toddler with no wants created using the tombstone of L&D.

[ZephyrZodiac]

Oh Lord, if you moved an occupied house, check for duplicate files of all the acquaintances those sims had, and the sims themselves!  They'll all be small files, around 50kb at the most, but they are almost certainly the cause of the data corruption that you have!  I used to do it before I knew it was bad, since it was at the time the only way I could find to change a knowledge or fortune sim's  LTW from Criminal Mastermind!  (And these were newly created families, with maybe the postboy and one passerby as acquaintances) but boy oh boy, did it cause a mess!  I still have to finish cleaning up that hood, which was one of my favourites!

[cwykes]

Oh yes I know it caused extra files.  Found that out and kicked myself months ago - in between cursing maxis for creating the problem.  Thing is I know that adds files, but I didn't think it actually caused corruption unless the 'hood was so big you were overflowing the available storage.  I wasn't worrying much about that at the moment because I don't have Uni and have never been close to the max char.nos..  I hope I'm not wrong on that. 

I definitely have a big problem with the SWAF files though.  Here are a few numbers from SimPE:
265 Sim description files
550 SWAF files
688 Sim DNA files
13118 sim relation files
48 family unknown 
87 Lot description

By the look of those numbers I must have been doing more stupid stuff than I knew about!

Can I safely delete every SWAF file where there is no character file?  Any way to do it apart from checking 550 files by hand?
We need a nice mod for SIM PE like that wonderful memory cleanup.  I put a request on the SimPE site.
EDIT - search found this thread - I gather I have to delete any SWAF that doesn't belong to a real Sim.  I gather the game will regenerate a SWAF if I delete one that looks particularly corrupt.
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=4249.0

How many DNA files should I have?  I hope it's not 265.....

Are the family unknown's a problem?  they are original maxis created from the low incidence numbers 00000001 to 00000033 and only 4 have character files.

[ZephyrZodiac]

I don't think the DNA is as critical as the SWAFs, and when I looked at mine, I thought, how the heck will I know which to keep and which to delete, so I left them.  I didn't even delete all the SWAFs at once, I started by deleting all those blank ones with no name, even Unknown, at the top, and then checked how many were left.   After that, and running the game for a while, I listed which kids Aspirations and odd wants, and deleted their SWAFs, and that seemed to clear everything up. 

The Sim RElations are easy, though rather time consuming going down that great long list and highlighting and deleting all those Unknowns! 

I can't remember having any large number of family unknown files - I initially only got rid of the townie kids, Marsha et al, and left the new Bluewater ones in, so it was actually only about 6 files that was causing me so many problems!

However, if you have another version of your hood, like a backup from the very beginning, or simply another one in a different set of game files, it might be worth taking a look at what you have in that to make a comparison.  You'd need to rename your present folder (just add an A or something), then move the unused copy in and load up SimPE.  (If you don't have such a copy, then rename your Neighbourhood folder and load up your game, and a new set of files should be generated.  Afterwards, these can either be kept for a future occasion or simply deleted.  But remember to change the name of your original neighbourhood folder back, and change the name of the new one - do that first.)

[cwykes]

Do the files regenerate exactly as they should be?  If so, why can't I just delete every SWAF file in the hood and let them all regenerate?  Assuming theres a good reason not to do that I'm starting on the deletion process... done 3 of 285!  Should I put a request for a mass fix in the Podium do you think?  I'll worry about DNA later.

That family unknown is probably a Veronaville thing.  I'd have to start up a vanilla hood to check it, but those incidence number have got to be a maxis created.   I think they didn't set up the ancestors properly and all the dead sims have family unknown even though they are there in the family tree.   

I've done sim relations before - yes it's timeconsuming and sorting only gets you half of them in a block.  I wondered if the size of it was a problem.

So do you think moving occupied lots into the bin causes corruption per se?

[jrd]

Do the files regenerate exactly as they should be?  If so, why can't I just delete every SWAF file in the hood and let them all regenerate?

You can do this, new SWAFs will generate. However you will lose all your lifetime wants, and wants history, so (for example) wealth Sims will want items you've already bought, family or romance Sims may want to fall in love again, etc.. Still, this is a one-time annoyance rather than a potential permanent problem.

That family unknown is probably a Veronaville thing.  I'd have to start up a vanilla hood to check it, but those incidence number have got to be a maxis created.   I think they didn't set up the ancestors properly and all the dead sims have family unknown even though they are there in the family tree.

Dead Sims are SUPPOSED to be in the 'unknown' or 'default' family. Remember, in TS2 family means 'household', not kin. When a Sim is dead he is dropped out of the normal families into the unk/def family.

You should have one family per playable household, and one for townies/shoppers/dormies, one for downtownies, one for Service NPCs, and the unknown/default family. That makes 4 families plus the number of households in total.

So do you think moving occupied lots into the bin causes corruption per se?

Big yes. This is the second-most harmful thing you can do. (The worst would be to move an occupied lot to another neighbourhood).

[ZephyrZodiac]

Yes, it does - the sims you move back are, I think, clones of the originals, as they have no memory of meeting anyone outside the household.  the originals become eventually unlinked, but in the meantime can still be wandering around your hood making more acquaintances, even friends - you have no way of knowing without making them selectable (or changing the clothes of the ones living in the house) which is which, so you then end up with an enormous number of memories to clean up, including all the gossip - met so-and-so, made best friends with so-and-so, etc.  The only real clue you would have, I think, is if another sim family meet them and want to be friends, so one tries to phone them, they won't be reachable as they "have no phone".  Any number of people have reported problems with doing it, and it's the cloning that is the problem, you see, you move the house into the bin, then immediately put it back in your hood.  Fine, no family members in the bin.  But like Bella in Strangetown, they are wandering around homeless!  Unlike Bella, they aren't the only one!  the kids turn up on the school bus, the adults if they have jobs come home with another sim after work - the problems are endless!

And wouldn't it save a lot of confusion if the word household were used for household, and family for kinfolk!  And then you have all those students  at Uni who share a house and are marked as family, plus quite a few other Maxis sims!  (Dustin/Angela,  Lilith/Dirk!  And they neither share a house or a family tree!

[cwykes]

thank you Jordi and ZZ - I have the strong feeling I should have known that it wasn't just the extra character files   I'd better have another go at cleaning that sim out of the 'hood completely.

re the family unknown, again  should have known that's what family unknown was for, my excuse is my sims don't die..  So I don't worry about the maxis ancestors without character files,  BUT there are a few living sims with a family whose instance number is also in the family unknown list. Do I worry about that.  They are of course maxis sims: Consort capp and Bottom summerdream  There are a couple of NPCs with family unknown as well.

goes off to delete SWAF file number 5 muttering... there must be a better way!

Jordi - do you think the DNA files need tackling too?  ZZ hasn't done that one either..

ZZ - households and families are two different things for me as well - the UK stats service defines them differently.  Household is the collection of people living in the house.  8 students in a house is 8 families.

[ZephyrZodiac]

But one household!  I think maybe the British Government and all it's Quangos is a little more precise than Maxis! (Now all the US readers will want to know what the British government has to do with extinct ancestors of the horse!)

Veronaville is about the most badly construct hood ever!  Antonio Monty resurrected his brother, no bother at all, but his wife was unresurrectable, as all her character data had been wiped - she was like the non-Darleen Darleen, if you see what I mean!  And that, I think, is the root of the problem, a lot of these dangling SWAFs are actually created by Maxis.  In the case of Darleen, I think they must have played around with moving her from one lot to another, then moved the house into the bin after she died there.  Same with Skip.  Michael, they must at some stage have moved to the goth house, as his ghost appears there as well as at the Caliente house.  They also played around with names since he is not Michael Caliente, and Dina is not Dina Bachelor.  Little did they know, way back then, the problems they were leaving around - but they still haven't learned their lesson!  Take a look at the Bakery family - they are a total mess!

[Jelenedra]

I had this error when I first installed OFB. I wiped my downloads folders and started from custom scratch and that seemed to fix my blank want icons.


Of course, I am notorious for wiping my neighborhoods and starting over. So that could've been it as well. I know when I got OFB, and cleared everything along with the download folders, so I might've inadvertantly erased all my corrupted files.

[Hegelian]

I've had this (blank wants slots) with one or two sims on each lot after installing OFB. I was able to correct it by either deleting the affected sims and saving the lot (they appear at the mailbox when you reload the lot), or by letting them go through a sleep cycle and rolling new wants when they wake up. You could also try sending them on dates, since this spins new wants also. YMMV!

[jrd]

Jordi - do you think the DNA files need tackling too?  ZZ hasn't done that one either..

Errant Sim DNA is mostly harmless, since if a new Sim is created this new DNA should overwrite the old data. I still recommend cleaning it if possible though.
One problem is that Sim DNA cannot safely be deleted for existing Sims, and SimPE does not show to which Sim a given DNA string belongs.

[jsalemi]

Or sometimes just rerolling their wants with the insiminator or testing cheats does the trick.  Most times, though, I've found that the roll-after-sleep clears up the blank wants problem.

[J. M. Pescado]

Or sometimes just rerolling their wants with the insiminator or testing cheats does the trick.  Most times, though, I've found that the roll-after-sleep clears up the blank wants problem.

Truly BLANK wants, where the box is simply empty, can be caused by simple want-tree depletion, where if you haven't played a sim for awhile, everything he formerly had will time out and he won't have any new triggers. Generally, firing up the AutoYak and yammering at some people for a bit is enough to seed the pool again so the next reroll will produce some wants. Granted, most of those wants will annoyingly involve people who aren't there, but go figure.

[cwykes]

Ahhh! That might explain why a pair of townies stuck in a new house with the tombstone of L&D had no wants at all.   They just didn't know what they wanted from the tree of life!   I really panicked about that one - it's one of the reasons I thought my 'hood was about to explode.  Then it did.....  for another reason...  It seems backwards that completely blank wants is less serious than wants with no icons!

At least I don't feel so alone now,  I'm not the only one seeing more wants with blank icons since OFB.  Mostly you can clear them up by taking the sims on an outing (not toddlers though) or letting them sleep, but some problems are persistent.  I want to know why it's happening especially if it's a sign of data corruption.

What would it take to make cleaning up the genetics data easier in SimPE?  Is it a massive job, or would a bit of tweaking enable users to see what records belonged to each Sim?  I can put a request on the SimPE site, but I'd like to have some idea what I'm asking for in terms of effort.  At least it's not as dangerous as the memory and SWAF mess.  Thank you for that bit of good news.

I do think a lot of my extra SWAF files came with Veronaville - I'd have to generate a new vanilla 'hood to be sure, but from the incidence numbers I'd say it was a good bet they were Maxis made.  Certainly not all the dead sims have character files and most have SWAF files even if they don't have character files!

[ZephyrZodiac]

I would think that if the DNA strings for a non-existent sim (ie the result of a DAC etc.) were tagged in some way so that a mouse-over would show that, that would be sufficient.

[jrd]

Optimally SimPE would have an option to remove all unused SWAFs (Want/Fears for unknowns) and unused SDNAs (DNA strings not used by any character file) by clicking one button.