So what is an overpopulated neighborhood anyway?

[Kristalrose]

If these figures are completely out of line, you may have some oddities in your neighborhood, and may want to check the Sim Browser in SimPE to see if you've got duplicate entries. You HAVE avoided all known problem behaviors, like downloading inhabited lots or lotbinning anything, right?

Righ.  I have not done any of that, because you told me it was bad.   
Some of my Sims do not even show in in SimsPE.  I can't find them in the browser, and when I look into a related sims's relationships, it just says, "Unknown Sim."  I do have many sims that are repeated.  Just how many social bunnies do we need?

Family trees, yes. Be fruitful....I'd avoid that. Although the damage to your sanity will probably set in long before the damage to your neighborhood will. I'll run the math for you the fast way: Let's say you actually *DO* let your sims have their 10 children. In 3 generations, you'll have a population of over 1000 sims. This is clearly madness, which is why you need a sustainable growth policy.


Exactly, just like you were telling me over at WorldSims.  I have never done the ten-children aspiration, though I have let a few parents have five or more.  But all these children are counted in the nearly-80 number.  And the neighborhood was created when Uni came out back in March, so it's 4 months old.

[J. M. Pescado]

Righ.  I have not done any of that, because you told me it was bad.   
Some of my Sims do not even show in in SimsPE.  I can't find them in the browser, and when I look into a related sims's relationships, it just says, "Unknown Sim."

That would be bad. There are a few "Unknown Sims" in your neighborhood files that are normal, namely, Grim Reaper, Therapist, the Hula Dancer, and the Pollination Technician, but you should certainly not have relationships with any of them!

I do have many sims that are repeated.  Just how many social bunnies do we need?

3, usually, The game insists on a minimum of 3 of any type of NPC, including, of course, ones like the Social Worker, Repo Man, and Social Bunny. Even though these really aren't considered sociable and there's absolutely no reason why we need variety here....

Why, how many do you have?

[Oddysey]

This totals out to about 250 sims. Can you account for the remaining 200-odd as ancestors? If this estimate isn't off off by more than about 50 sims or so, then you're fine. If these figures are completely out of line, you may have some oddities in your neighborhood, and may want to check the Sim Browser in SimPE to see if you've got duplicate entries.

Hang on a tick. The problem (or a problem) is that when a neighborhood gets enough character files in it, it starts making useless, weird character files? Which would cause there to be more sims in the neighborhood than there are any actual records of?

[J. M. Pescado]

Hang on a tick. The problem (or a problem) is that when a neighborhood gets enough character files in it, it starts making useless, weird character files? Which would cause there to be more sims in the neighborhood than there are any actual records of?

No, the problem is that bloated neighborhoods are often caused by useless, weird character files. Bloated neighborhoods also are at high risk for experiencing strange errors, many of which are fixed by Critical fixes, but more problems of this nature will surely occur in NL. Thus, pure size is not incurable, but if your neighborhood is bloated not because of age and heavy play alone, but because it is filled with GARBAGE, this is a serious problem, as garbage files can cause other, not-so-resolveable, errors.

[Kristalrose]

That would be bad. There are a few "Unknown Sims" in your neighborhood files that are normal, namely, Grim Reaper, Therapist, the Hula Dancer, and the Pollination Technician, but you should certainly not have relationships with any of them!

Nope, these that I'm referring to are sims that I created with Body Shop. 

I do have many sims that are repeated.  Just how many social bunnies do we need?

3, usually, The game insists on a minimum of 3 of any type of NPC, including, of course, ones like the Social Worker, Repo Man, and Social Bunny. Even though these really aren't considered sociable and there's absolutely no reason why we need variety here....

Why, how many do you have?

Oh, about 6.  And 4 repo men.  And 5 social workers. . .

Okay, so my game is FUBAR'ed?     Why am I not surprised. 

[Oddysey]

Ah. That makes significantly more sense.

The social bunny I can sort of see needing multiples of, up to a maximum of eight. But Social worker? You can't even interact with her, and they all look basically identical anyway! Variety is good, but only if it's not pointless.

[Karen]

The social bunny I can sort of see needing multiples of, up to a maximum of eight. But Social worker? You can't even interact with her, and they all look basically identical anyway! Variety is good, but only if it's not pointless.

One time I happened to be playing a lot where there were two social bunnies (different colors) active at the same time.  Their respective Sims had been quiet for a while (asleep, probably) and the two bunnies suddenly started interacting with each other.  They progressed all the way to kissing and making out before I got tired of watching and interrupted them.  Social bunnies in love??  Weird, huh?

Karen

[Oddysey]

Yup, that's supposed to happen. And bunnies of the same color will fight. Actually rather funny to watch.

[Brynne]

The social bunny I can sort of see needing multiples of, up to a maximum of eight. But Social worker? You can't even interact with her, and they all look basically identical anyway! Variety is good, but only if it's not pointless.

One time I happened to be playing a lot where there were two social bunnies (different colors) active at the same time.  Their respective Sims had been quiet for a while (asleep, probably) and the two bunnies suddenly started interacting with each other.  They progressed all the way to kissing and making out before I got tired of watching and interrupted them.  Social bunnies in love??  Weird, huh?

Karen

I posted a picture of the social-bunny makeout session waaaaaaaaaaaay back on MTS2 on the "weird pics" thread. I also had a sim complaining that he couldn't get into his bed. I couldn't figure out why for the life of me. When I switched to a different character, I found out her social bunny was relaxing and daydreaming on the first sim's bed! 

[ZephyrZodiac]

I did a check yesterday and found that well over a hundred files in my game were extra repair persons!  Took me hours with SimPE but I managed to delete every single one of them, did a quick reinstall of Uni, put the No Townie regeneration patch in as I think these were actually Townies as they were all supposedly unemployed, and for some reason the game just put them in Repair Persons clothes, and after moving the cleaned out folder back, tried my game again and it's working much much better!

[Brynne]

I did a check yesterday and found that well over a hundred files in my game were extra repair persons!  Took me hours with SimPE but I managed to delete every single one of them, did a quick reinstall of Uni, put the No Townie regeneration patch in as I think these were actually Townies as they were all supposedly unemployed, and for some reason the game just put them in Repair Persons clothes, and after moving the cleaned out folder back, tried my game again and it's working much much better!

The NPC's, for some reason, are "unemployed". If you check out Kaylynn the maid in SimPe, she is listed as "unemployed".

[ZephyrZodiac]

I suppose that's because those jobs aren't in the careers lists!  I'd probably noticed it before, but forgotten - but anyway, my sims mostly do their own repairs, so they didn't need over 100 repairpersons begging for work!  Anyway, by removing them I saved over 30 MB!

I did notice as well that I had two ghosts of Darren Dreamer's late wife and two of Michael Bachelor, which may explain why they show up at the Goth house as well as their home lot!  Didn't delete them but seems like two different Maxis programmers duplicated each other's work.

[Dea]

I did notice as well that I had two ghosts of Darren Dreamer's late wife and two of Michael Bachelor, which may explain why they show up at the Goth house as well as their home lot!  Didn't delete them but seems like two different Maxis programmers duplicated each other's work.


I didnt know that Micheal and Darleen showed up at the goth house (I resurrected both)...there is also 2 Skip's though


edit:  I resurrected darleen with the resurrect-i-nomitron, micheal with simpe and teleporter

[gali]

Why do you revive Darleen Dreamer (Darren's wife) with the SimPe?

She can be resurrected with the O-Nomitron (you have to use motherlode for that), and you can have the O-Nomitron downloading Two-Jeff's reward collections, which you have to put in your Collections folder.

I did it month ago.

[Bane~Child]

All characters, including townies, NPCs, and everything else, are included in this count. 550 is starting to get kind of large, but not unhealthy. Yet.

Yes, and if you have a University linked to your Neighborhood, this adds around 200 so more characters.  There seem to be a lot of Professors, more than necessary.  I guess they assume some will be lost in the campus riots.


JM,

If you have more than just 'the one', necessary University, do the numbers of college specific Dormies/Profs/Cows increase at all?  I am thinking that you get them in one lump with the first campus you choose.   

[ZephyrZodiac]

Add another campus, add another set of NPCs.  Been there, got the t-shirt.

[Brynne]

Good Lord. Looks like Sim State is the only option for my sims...

[ZephyrZodiac]

Well, if you've got it, yes!  But you can have a different one in a different neighbourhood. 

[Brenda]

My Pleasantview has a count right now of 641 character files.  and from what I have assumed from the messages , that even if i was to not have anymore kids for my sims, and let the neighborhood come down in size by killing off some of my sims, then that wont help, cause thier folder would still be there. 
So how can we bring down the folder size?   I just started this neighborhood again and Im finally at a point of getting past all the people that started the neighborhood.  the only ones still young are don, nina and dina, only cause I hate working them.
My families have grown though, isnt  this what the game was suppose to do is generation after generations...So people with families past the tenth generation, is that the only family that lives in that town? 
There has to be a way of when a sim dies that the folder gets taken out.  Is there a way?  if not then I might as well not play anymore cause my neighborhoods are going to grow no matter what I do to it. 

Just curious as to how far we can take a neighborhood.

take care,
Brenda

[cabelle]

I might be incorrect (happens frequently  ) but I thought these responses from JMP in Veilchens "Too many files/Sims explanation for Dummies" post answered our questions about "critical mass" in neighborhoods-

Quote
3. As soon as a neighborhood file hits critical mass, its doomed, with no way to fix it, even if you never, ever, lot-binned, deleted binned sims that have been played, or imported occupied houses.
Not entirely true. The Critical Fixes existing can keep a neighborhood chugging for quite a good while longer, but obviously, this doesn't account for any undiscovered bugs, or any new bugs of this nature (too many iterations is generally most visible sign) introduced in future expansions. If Maxis never wises up, this is going to require future critical fixes.


Quote
4. What IS the critical mass? Some say 300+ some say 500+, some (like me) say ??
Early errors begin to set in around 800-ish. All known problems of this nature are resolved by Critical Fixes. Advanced errors can set in around 1000+. These are also resolved by Critical Fix hacks. Obviously, once you have to resort to hacks just to keep going, you've crossed the Rubicon already. How long you can keep going after that depends on how long it takes you to be assassinated. This point is unknown.

And-

Quote
7. Unless you are very SimPe literal and can delete memories/characters/etc. manually, you might as well put the flag on half-mast, play the funeral march and bid your neighborhood goodbye.
Pretty much. Once you've passed the Critical Fix point, you're doomed. However, this point is very far away, as Critical Fixes have been able to repair neighborhoods in the 2000s. This is all assuming you're salvaging NATURAL populations, and not garbage bloat. Let us figure, as a reasonable number, you have approximately 40 families. That's about how many are in my neighborhood right now, although some are "crunchy" and will eventually be compacted together (college students, soon-to-die relatives living in small houses with no burial grounds, immortals, etc.). If your neighborhood is bloated because of *GARBAGE*, you're best off starting over.


Quote
8. JM's and TJ's critical fixes stave this off for a time, but it is inevitable, since, as mentioned before, there is no subtraction, only addition.
In theory, a meticulously maintained neighborhood can avoid a potential explosion on these grounds for the duration of TS2, assuming critical fixes are made for any such problem.

The way I understand this is that if we've installed all the Critical Fixes we're good to go for some time (like up to 2000 sims per neighborhood). Am I way off base?

[Bane~Child]

Add another campus, add another set of NPCs.  Been there, got the t-shirt.

You would think, even with Maxiod Logic, that if characters can appear in two places simultaneously, ie the Student bin and the home neighborhood, they could rotate the campus crew especially within the same neighborhood.  There are already enough Professors to survive the next ELL and the NPC dormies are only off-stage for a costume change.  They are all part-timers at that.  I can accept needing a few extra of the showcased Students, but not an entire set of NPCs - that's 600-700 characters right there.

What Maxis does to us is just sooo wrong on so many levels. 

BTW - You did check to make sure that your Tee was a genuine Body Shop creation, didn't you?  We can't allow knock-offs of The House of Maxis label or these would be Mods and Hacks. No!...Bad hacks!...Bad!

[Bane~Child]

Brenda, if you are playing with UniEP, I would choose just one campus and just one neighborhood for that campus - Period.  I liken this to 'the one' phenomenon that JM has often described.  No other neighborhoods with campuses, no more than 'the one' campus in the whole game.  Decide which neighborhood you want your campus in and resign yourself to only playing Uni in 'the one'.

You may want to consider placing your campus in a custom neighborhood.  As the students graduate they would become the seeds to populate the new neighborhood - the Pollination techs so to speak.  This would keep your favorite neighboorhood going a little longer, without the added burden of the Uni characters.

[ZephyrZodiac]

Did you install the Daily Gardener hack?  That has caused people to have this problem with gardeners, if they ordered the daily one without first sacking the normal one.  I think you can probably delete them, just make sure you keep the original ones.

[Brenda]

I'm currently playing Pleasantview and I have only one college for that town,  however my daughter plays Vernonville and she also only has one college for her town.  I dont think it matters how many you start up as I believe each area has its own count as to how many files is in that area.  I hope that sounded right ,, lololol....
I wasnt aware that your students after college could be sent to another neighborhood . I only thought they are sent back to the neighborhood they came from.   I have never been given a choice on which one they would go to from school or I would surely send some of mine to a new town.  it would be awesome to have another town with some of my people .  So if there is a way to do this please teach me ....

You all take care okay and have fun playing your sims.

Brenda

[fff]

No, I'm pretty sure when YA's graduate they can only go back to the neighbourhood they came from - the only way to move them into another 'hood would be to put them in the lot bin and manually move them over, which is A Very Bad Thing and will cause untold amounts of heartache and game wobbles, according to He Who Is More Awesome.