Testers Wanted: Teen Enabled Adult Wants and Woohoo Wants (Updated 9/10/2007)

[RainbowTigress]

The DMA Sims Teleporter (yellow burglar alarm) has a caller ID function on it.  I use it in my game.  I don't know if that has anything to do with your problem, but I thought I'd mention it. 

Syberspunk, any word on whether there are any conflicts between this hack or your adults go steady hack and OFB-P2?

[syberspunk]

Hrm. Still not sure what might be the cause of the loss of animations thing. I'm sorry I can't be much of help. I'll try and keep an eye out for this. But I'm pretty sure I've had several phone conversations since sticking this in my game and haven't noticed any problems such as those you've described.

As for compatibility with OFBp2, I do have an 'official' compatibility list in the Podium. Rather than post a new thread, I resurrected the older one from before. It lists all of my released hacks and their status. I also recently installed FFS, and did a rescan, and they were all fine again, which is as it should be.

As for this hack specifically, I noticed in my game that ex-lovers kept rolling up wants to interact with each other. Some of them platonic, just to chat or what not, but others that are more familiar (to dance) or of the more romantic persuasion (to flirt or give a backrub). ANd while this is kind of cute in a way... it seems almost pointless as most likely the ex-lover would end up rejecting those socials.

In some cases, even if I just had them chat, they would end up having a bad convo, which leads to fulfilling the fear (shortly after fulfilling the want) which ends up just negating the Aspiration gain. For the dance together want, those options don't even show up between the two anymore because of how much the relationship has been damaged. Only the option to join in 'Dance Solo' appears, but does not actually fulfill that want. And trying to flirt or give a backrub is just pure disaster only serving to further destroy the relationship. In this case, the sims are already enemies.

So I thought I'd ask those of you who have been using this, should I alter this again so that those wants don't show up if the two sims are enemies or have a low/negative relationship? Or would you prefer that they still show up, so you could at least lock them, and maybe somehow repair the relationship (by whatever means you choose) and thus potentially fulfill those wants later? I guess it all depends on how you prefer to play. I usually tend to let a sims wants and fears sort of steer how I play them. I tend to be a benevolent 'god' and try to satisfy their wants as best as possible, so long as it falls in line with my overall plan for their path in life, so to speak. As such, I kind of take their wants as a sign of what would make them 'happy' - yes, I know that wants and fears are most likely just random selection following some WantTree path that they just happened to fulfill, and that sims are pretty much mindless and stupid and don't really 'feel' anything, but this is the extent to which I use my imagination and read into the game in such a way as to personify them.

Anyways, I'm rambling, but the way I see it, rolling those almost unfulfillable wants, at least they are unfulfillable immediately since they would most likely be rejected or are impossible at the time because the option for the interaction doesn't even show up to begin with, seems kind of silly on the one hand. On the other hand, it's not like you can't take it as a sign that the sim sort of wants to get back together with the other sim, or at least repair the relationship to the point that they could be friends again as oppoosed to staying enemies. It's funny though, when the wants conflict, such as when they want to see that sim's ghost or drink them, as if to tell me they wish that sim were dead. Then, roll a want to chat, give a backrub, tell a joke, and dance with them. Uh... can you make up your mind already?

Anyhew, what do you guys think? Feel free to post your thoughts here and provide any feedback.

Ste

[Theo]

As for this hack specifically, I noticed in my game that ex-lovers kept rolling up wants to interact with each other.

Some time before I installed this hack, I had Daniel and Mary-Sue break up, and Mary-Sue would still get romantic wants towards Daniel. They were not enemies though.

I quickly repaired their relationship, so I don't know if the romantic wants would persist or fade away, but surely the game itself is doing this want selection.

For me it's a bit annoying to have unfulfillable wants clogging the sim's want slots, but on the other hand I think it makes things a bit more reallistic - for example, a scenario in which a broken relationship leads to depression.

My vote goes to letting that particular behavior as it is, but an evolution of this hack could let the player choose between the two modes via a stub object or an additional sim menu option.

[RainbowTigress]

I don't like having unfillable wants such as these clogging up want slots, personally, but I think this may be a part of the game.  After Cassandra dumped Don for cheating on her, she would sometimes roll up wants to interact with him or even flirt with him, which I ignored.  Eventually they slacked off, but to this day she still occasionally will roll up a fear of his death, even though she is happily married with 11 (!) kids and she and her hubby are elders.  Actually, I'm not sure if she still does that, I'll have to check because I haven't played her house in a while, but I know she still had that fear sometimes after a very long time.  Anyway, I play kind of like you, Ste, and I like to see wants roll up that go along with my plans for the sim.    Even when they are permaplat, I still play to their wants if they go along with what I want for them.

[jsalemi]

Until the day she died, Cassandra in my game kept rolling up fears of falling out of love with ex-lovers.  Only problem was, they were all already dead.  I thought it odd, until I saw old lady Jacquet rolling up fears of falling out of love with her dead husband.  I figure the maxis-made sims just have some quirks...

[RainbowTigress]

I noticed that right away on loading the Jaquet household.  Old lady Jacquet has a fear of catching her husband cheating, but he's dead!  Very strange... 

[syberspunk]

Hrm. That's weird. Most of the romantic related wants should have a check for whether the subject is dead. I wonder if that character's data is corrupted. Or it could just be buggy code. Maybe I'll dig through it later.

I actually kind of like that certain wants roll up for exes, almost as if they miss them or what not. But it gets annoying when their wants are clogged up by them, when they are supposed to be concentrating on something else. Like some of my Knowledge sims at Uni, who have their wants clogged up with their lovers when they should be studying or wanting to get through Uni. Even when I satisfy them, they still don't roll up knowledge related wants! This one sim's grades have suffered because he kept rolling up romantic wants, and then his only knowledge related wants were to see ghosts. First, it was the ghost of his ex, because he was pissed that he got dumped. And then I had a string of deaths (3 dormies and one playable) and then his wants were to see individual ghosts and a ghost in general. All other times, he just wants to be saved by death or stargaze through a telescope. Stupid sim. That's why you only get a C+!

It's also kind of silly when sims still have fears of their exes dying, and then roll up wants to drink them or turn them into a zombie or see their ghost. Talk about mixed message.

Ste

[RainbowTigress]

I think the whole cowplant and drinking sims is weird anyway.  How can you drink someone, then turn around and resurrect them???

[jsalemi]

How can you drink someone, then turn around and resurrect them???

I my game, I'd resurrect them as zombies, figuring they're 'damaged' because parts of their brain were in the cowplant milk.

[jsalemi]

It's also kind of silly when sims still have fears of their exes dying, and then roll up wants to drink them or turn them into a zombie or see their ghost. Talk about mixed message.

I'm kinda fond of the 'see someones ghost when they're still alive' thing -- it's the closest to murderous thoughts the sims get.

I've only seen those weird fears involving already dead folks with pre-made sims; now that I think about it, I also saw it with a townie who married a CAS sim who died first. She took the hit on his death, and then had the fear of falling out of love with him for the remainder of her own life.  I don't recall ever seeing it with a CAS or b.i.g. sim.

[syberspunk]

Hrm. That seems pretty screwy. It must be something wrong with their character data. I looked at the code and it shows the following:

###
# Group = 0x7F739728, Instance = 0x1006
# Title = CT - Test - Death of Sim
#
# Format = 8007, Params = 6, Locals = 0
# Tree type = 0, Header flag = 0, Tree version = FFFF800A (-32758)

     0: Param 3 == 0; true: true, false: 1
     1: .Alive & Eligible?(Param 3); true: true, false: false

###
# Group = 0x7F739728, Instance = 0x1017
# Title = Alive & Eligible?
#
# Format = 8007, Params = 1, Locals = 0
# Tree type = 0, Header flag = 4, Tree version = FFFF800B (-32757)

     0: Death - Is Sim Dead? (NID)(Param 0); true: false, false: 1
     1: Stack Object := Param 0; true: 4, false: error
     2: neighbor's person data family number (0x3D) == Const 0x13A(Reserved Family IDs):0x2(32765 (0x7FFD)); true: false, false: 3
     3: .NPCs - Check for Non-Romantic/Sociable(Param 0); true: false, false: true
     4: neighbor's person data family number (0x3D) > 0; true: 2, false: false

The first BHAV is the test for the want (fear) of the death of a sim. It calls the Alive & Eligible BHAV where the very first line of which has a check if that sim is dead. It could be that the nID is screwed up somehow. For some reason, and I don't know why this happens, but it seems like even though a character/sim may have a valid Object ID, the nID (neighbor ID) is sometimes 0. I don't know if this is because something gets mucked up, or if it's garbage data or if 0 is a supposed to be valid. Anyways, I went a step further and looked at the Death - Is Sim Dead? BHAV:

###
# Group = 0x7FD46CD0, Instance = 0x301
# Title = Death - Is Sim Dead? (NID)
#
# Format = 8009, Params = 1, Locals = 1
# Tree type = 0, Header flag = 10, Tree version = FFFF800B (-32757), Cache flags = 0

     0: Verify - Neighbor is Linked(Param 0); true: 1, false: true
     1: Stack Object := Param 0; true: 3, false: error
     2: neighbor's person data Ghost Flags (Routing Behavior) (0x44) Flag Set? IsGhost; true: true, false: false
     3: Verify - Person ID(neighbor in stack object person instance id (0x0)); true: 5, false: 2
     4: stack obj's person data Ghost Flags (Routing Behavior) (0x44) Flag Set? IsGhost; true: true, false: false
     5: Stack Object := neighbor in stack object person instance id (0x0); true: 4, false: error

So it looks like it checks if the sim is linked (whatever that means) and if so, then it checks to see if the ghost flag is set. So maybe, you should check if the IsGhost flag is set for these sims that are supposed to be dead. Have you ever noticed if their ghosts ever show up on the lot? If not, that could mean that they are dead, but something got mucked up and their flags were not set properly.

Ste

[jsalemi]

Hrm. That seems pretty screwy. It must be something wrong with their character data. I looked at the code and it shows the following:

Well, this IS maxis-made sims we're talking about -- screwed-up data is a given.

So it looks like it checks if the sim is linked (whatever that means) and if so, then it checks to see if the ghost flag is set. So maybe, you should check if the IsGhost flag is set for these sims that are supposed to be dead. Have you ever noticed if their ghosts ever show up on the lot? If not, that could mean that they are dead, but something got mucked up and their flags were not set properly.

In the case of the Jacquets, there's no ghost to show up.  But in the case of the dead sim that Cassie had the fear-of-falling-out-of-love with, he definitely was a ghost on the lot he died on.  And his wife had the same fear (Cassie was his lover before he got married), even though his ghost scared her a couple of times.  I'll check his flag just to be sure next time I'm at my desktop computer.

Later: Ok, I checked, and the dead sim definitely had the 'IsGhost' flag checked.

[syberspunk]

Heh. Oh well. I have no idea what might be the problem... hopefully it's not caused by this hack. Not sure why the death test is failing to return properly unless the game is passing garbage data to it. If I ever get a chance, I'll try and look into it, but if it doesn't happen in my game... then heh I wouldn't be able to troubleshoot it. I haven't seen this yet (sims getting impossible/unfulfillable fears or wants related to already dead sims, but then again, I don't have many dead sims... yet. ).

Ste

[jsalemi]

Heh. Oh well. I have no idea what might be the problem... hopefully it's not caused by this hack.

No, this hack isn't causing it -- I've seen it happen long before you put this hack out.  And, um, I'm not using this hack anyway.

If I ever get a chance, I'll try and look into it, but if it doesn't happen in my game... then heh I wouldn't be able to troubleshoot it. I haven't seen this yet (sims getting impossible/unfulfillable fears or wants related to already dead sims, but then again, I don't have many dead sims... yet. ).

If you have OFB, hang around the Jacquet house for a while -- old lady Jacquet will roll an impossible fear regarding her late husband sooner or later.  Other folks have seen this happen, so it's not just my game.

[syberspunk]

Alright, so I've playtested a few sessions with a hack of the Wants.package to enable Woohoo wants for teens. So far, I haven't had any problems with it yet *knocks on wood*

But it definitely needs more testing, so if you do use it, it'd be great if you could provide some feedback.

When I get a chance, maybe tomorrow... I'll try and snap an in-game pic or two. In the meantime, test it out if you'd like. Just remember the special instructions since it does modify a core game file.

Finally... I wasn't able to find the 'Go Steady' wants. I still have not been able to get the 'Go Steady' wants to roll up for Adults or older. Admittedly, I didn't do an extensive, thoroughly exhaustive search, but I did look in a lot of the files. If anyone would be interested in helping me search for it, that would be great. You'd have to open up the Wants.package and search through the different instances. Unforunately they are not clearly, separately labelled. If you extract all of them into a folder. You can view the files in some kind of editor (XML, HTML... something like Microsoft Frontpage, Dreamweaver, etc.). This might make your search easier. I was able to find what was hopefully all the Woohoo references this way. However, I could not find any references to 'Go Steady,' 'Went Steady,' 'Going Steady' or other few variations I could think of. I searched for 'Go' and 'Steady' separately too, but till couldn't find it. I may have overlooked something, but in any case, if you do find something, let me know.

Ste

[carlasturmer]

I read everything that was said about the files and I just have to thank you for your patience and dedication.  Thanks for these mods!

[Ancient Sim]

I've taken out JenFlower's woo-hoo teens and am using Inteen now, but I still have this in.  What I was wondering was, is it still necessary/compatible with the new autonomous version of Casual Romance?

[twojeffs]

Yes, it's compatible and would be necessary to have teens get the woohoo wants.

[Wedgetail]

I'll test this little hack out over the weekend and let you know how it goes Thanks for this!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Okay played with the hack over the weekend and it worked fine, just a few things I noticed:
 - When an adult and teen are on a date they have the woohoo want but not with that sim in particular, just the want.
- If a teen/teen or adult/adult are on a date they get the woohoo want with that sim.
- An adult  has an obvious attraction for a teen (or vice versa) eg: love hearts in the thought bubble with that sims face in it, fanning themselves, there are no lightening bolts on the relationship panel to indicate what the attraction between an adult and teen actually is.

Like I said no biggy, these problems don't affect overall gameplay, just a few things I noticed while I was fooling around on the weekend (I don't know if they can be fixed or not), I'll keep messing with it and tell you how it goes

[syberspunk]

Thanks for the feedback, I greatly appreciate it.

I actually noticed this too. That they won't get specific wants to woohoo with that person, only the generic one. I also haven't seen sims get wants to woohoo in cars. Does that even exist? My teen sim doesn't seem to get them. He gets generic woohoo wants for in public, but I also did not see any specific wants for in a photobooth.

When I find the time, I'll try and take a look at things again and see if there is anything else that needs to be changed.

Ste

[RainbowTigress]

I've never seen a want to woohoo in the photobooth, just the public woohoo one.  But I saw a want I'd never seen before with a YA Knowledge sim.  She had a want to Streak. 

[Wedgetail]

I've never seen a want to woohoo in the photobooth, just the public woohoo one.  But I saw a want I'd never seen before with a YA Knowledge sim.  She had a want to Streak. 

Yes, I got that want aswell, it was also a knowledge sim, it came after I installed Family Fun Stuff, maybe it's something they added into the game?  She was rather outgoing personality wise Never noticed that want before, but then again, it was the first time I played uni after installing FFS

[RainbowTigress]

I don't have FFS, just TS2/Uni/NL/OFB.  She is 8 outgoing.  I haven't put any sims through Uni since OFB though.  I had some very outgoing sims before with just Uni and NL, and I never saw this want.

[Ambular]

On a completely different tangent, who says it's pointless to use this without a teen woohoo mod?  Constantly wanting to woohoo and never getting to do so is one of the great trials of adolescence.  XD

[syberspunk]

Lol. Well... I suppose... but then you just have your wants (and fears) clogged up by things you can never fulfill either way. I guess that would certainly make it a bit more challenging of a game then to try and keep your teens aspirations high.

Back to the woohoo wants, I still haven't had a chance to play/test things. I've really busy with school stuff right now, so I have been really trying hard to concentrate on that, and it's taking all my restraint to slack off and play around with SimPE or the sims. That's why I haven't been around chat either or frequenting other boards as much. I just can't seem to stay away from here tho, and that's bad enough as it is. But I only sneak on now and then, when I need a break from my research, and it isn't as distracting as everything else.

After next week, hopefully all things will go well and I won't be super stressed and I might actually get to slide back into slack relaxed mode before the new semester starts.

Ste