Building/Upgrading a PC for TS2

[jsalemi]

There have been very few problems with the ATI Radeon cards, and you can easily find cards in the X1xxx series for under your price. If memory serves, the X19xxx series is the recommended top-end one, but I've had very good results with my third-party (VisionTek) Radeon X1300.

[jolrei]

There have been very few problems with the ATI Radeon cards, and you can easily find cards in the X1xxx series for under your price. If memory serves, the X19xxx series is the recommended top-end one, but I've had very good results with my third-party (VisionTek) Radeon X1300.

I would second the support for the ATI Radeon cards.  My current mobo is an ASUS thing with a built in ATI card running on an X300 chipset and it runs BV fine.  Not that I suggest slumming it with a low-end card, but there are certainly less reported game-related issues with the ATI cards, as compared with the NVidia cards.

[lemonfresh]

Posting here because I'm fairly certain my problem is a need to upgrade hardware...

I've got all EPs and SPs. I've purged SecuRom from my system and am running the game with YASU and a no-cd.exe. (Just say "Do Not Want!" to the patch.)

Until BV I've had no issues running the game with 3500+ AMD Athlon 64, 1GB Ram and an ATI Radeon Xpress 200... yes, even Seasons ran decently. Probably because I always play with lighting on low and shadows off.

After installing BV, the only way I can get any sort of play time is by removing all CC (except hacks) and playing small lots with minimal anything on them. With CC I still have to do all that, except that as soon as night rolls around, I get the blue-screen lag and lock. The only thing I can do by then is kill the game and start it again. I'm assuming I need more RAM and a better video card. If this isn't the case, I'd be happy to know what's going on. I keep track of my hacks and make sure they're up to date, so I very much doubt this is the issue.

My question is, due to hardware stupidity and non-awesomeness, which should be my priority? RAM or a new graphics card? I can't sink cash into both at this time, one is going to have to wait a few months. If I should go for a new graphics card first, can someone make a few recommendations? The graphics I have now are integrated/motherboard, PCI-express and I have no clue what I can and can't replace it with or if it even makes a difference. I'd prefer to be able to slap the new card in and not have to fiddle with a bunch of stuff to make it compatible (wouldn't we all) but I'll do what I must.

[Raene]

Definitely the video card. All EPs and SPs with just onboard video? XD Wow. You'll probably want to look for one of ATI Radeon X1XXX type cards. I personally have a Sapphire Radeon X1650 Pro.

[moonsgal]

lemonfresh, if you want to play with all of your cc and decrease loading times, upgrading your memory to 2gb will help significantly improve performance. Upgrading graphics will give better appearances and the demands in graphics from the seasons and bv eps, though onboard graphics would certainly take its toll so maybe it should be a first priority. So the choice is really what you feel is most most important.

[Zazazu]

Ok. I'm about to do an upgrade, at least in the next month. It's time. I want to be in line for Spore to be as pretty as possible, and I've a Christmas bonus a'comin'. Current stats:

System Model: Dell DXP051                 
               BIOS: Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A03
          Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
             Memory: 2046MB RAM
Card name: ATI Radeon X300/X550/X1050 Series
     Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
        Chip type: RADEON X600 (0x5B62)
         DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
   Display Memory: 256.0 MB
Monitor Max Res: 1280,1024
Description: SigmaTel Audio


I definitely want to up my card. I'm thinking an ATI x1950, 'cause they're shiny, and not too bad on price (plus ATI pawns Nvidia when it comes to game bug issues). I want more RAM, because more RAM makes it go whoosh. Maybe an extra gig? Or could I go double to four gigs? I'm sure I'll need some sort of cooling solution to handle the extra load. And my extremely stupid question for the moment...is a processor upgradable?

Unfortunately, I've never tried upgrading a computer. I've added in an Ethernet card on an old 486, plus put a sound card in. But I've not done video or RAM. I'll be able to figure it out...I'm quite good at putting things together. But as for what is compatible with what...well.

[jolrei]

Definitely the video card. All EPs and SPs with just onboard video? XD Wow. You'll probably want to look for one of ATI Radeon X1XXX type cards. I personally have a Sapphire Radeon X1650 Pro.

Video card is not a bad idea.  However, I'm running a Base-Uni-BV combination with a P4 dual core 3Gig, Asus mobo with onboard ATI Radeon X200 (X300 chipset), and 1 Gig of RAM, and it runs smooth and fine.  I'm wondering if problems might be more associated with a difference between Intel and AMD configurations.  I would upgrade my video card in an instant (since it is about as old as Moses) if it wasn't working for me.  In any case, my point really is that lag or other such problems may not be simply due to a single component.

Mind you, considering the problems others are having, my system performance seems to defy logical explanation.  I can only say that I built my own, choosing each and every part through some lengthy research, so that probably helps.

[lemonfresh]

Definitely the video card. All EPs and SPs with just onboard video? XD Wow. You'll probably want to look for one of ATI Radeon X1XXX type cards. I personally have a Sapphire Radeon X1650 Pro.

Video card is not a bad idea.  However, I'm running a Base-Uni-BV combination with a P4 dual core 3Gig, Asus mobo with onboard ATI Radeon X200 (X300 chipset), and 1 Gig of RAM, and it runs smooth and fine.  I'm wondering if problems might be more associated with a difference between Intel and AMD configurations.  I would upgrade my video card in an instant (since it is about as old as Moses) if it wasn't working for me.  In any case, my point really is that lag or other such problems may not be simply due to a single component.

Well, it could also be that I'm not running dual core and am running all the Eps and Sps.  My AMD is 2.2Ghz. I have to admit, I'm rather impressed with the performance of the onboard ATI Radeon X200. And like I said, it held strong all through Seasons. BV is just the straw that's breaking the camel's back, unfortunately. I'm pretty confident that more RAM and new graphics card are in order, rather than just one, or the other. I did find out that my X200 is up to 128MB, but that it "borrows" some or all of that from my 1GB... (in non-awesome terms, hardware has never really been my thing). I think I'm going to copy Raene and hunt down a Radeon X1650 Pro. I'll slap another GB RAM in as well, when I can and see how that works.

Much thanks and bleating for the responses.

[jolrei]

If I recall correctly, in its day, the X200/X300 series were considered pretty good.  I am impressed that I get real fingers and full animations without lag or jerky shit from this card.  I believe (being too lazy to dig up my spec sheets and background info on my rig's components) that, while the card itself has a certain amount of memory, being built in also lets it share RAM with the board (and here I'm probably making some terrible IT description errors).  I thought that with BV I would finally stretch the limits of the meagre 1Gig RAM on my system, but no.

The game does heat things up, but I have never overheated or crashed.  I do have problems hearing the game sound if all the cooling fans are going at once. 

[Pythia]

The time has come for me to buy a completely new computer. I've been searching all over the net for something suitable and think I may have found the winner. I'd appreciate advice and any opinions on whether to go for it. The only game I'll be running will be Sims 2 with all the EP's and perhaps Sims 3 when it comes out, other than that just usual stuff like watching vids, internet, music etc.

Here is your chosen specification...

Processor (CPU)
 Intel® Core™2 Duo E6750 (2 X 2.66GHz) 1333MHz FSB/4MB L2 Cache
Memory (RAM)
 2048 MB CORSAIR DDR2 667MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x1GB)
Motherboard
 ASUS® P5K SE: DDR2, SATAII, PCI-e x16, 2 PCI, 3 x PCI-e x1
Operating System
 WINDOWS® VISTA Home Premium (inc Genuine CD & License) (£59)
USB Options
 8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
 250GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7200rpm)
2nd Hard Disk
 NONE
1st CD/DVD Drive
 20x Dual Layer LightScribe DVD Writer ±R/±RW/RAM
2nd CD/DVD Drive
 NONE
Graphics Card
 512MB RADEON X1950 PRO PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT
Sound Card
 8 Channel Realtek ALC883 High Definition Audio (P5K-SE)
Network Facilities
 ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
Memory Card Reader
 INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)
Case
 Stylish Silver/Black Sigma case + 2 front USB
Power Supply & Case Cooling
 500W (Peak) Quiet Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£25)
Processor Cooling
 SUPER QUIET 19 dBA INTEL CPU COOLER (£14)

All this with monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers for £742 inc. tax and shipping.

So what do the experts think? Anything you would recommend changing? I'm dithering over whether to get vista or stick to XP and I'm also wondering whether to increase the power supply to 600 watt (adds £35 to the price).

Ideally I'd like the new PC to last for 3+ years with perhaps some upgrading in the future if I really need it.
 
 
 

[KatEnigma]

If it were me, I'd up the PSU and I'd DEFINITELY stick with XP. The new beta SP1 for Vista that was supposed to fix driver issues is being reported as borking even more drivers.  And SP3 for XP will be out soon, that will add the only good parts of Vista to XP- the security. If you decide to go with Vista, I'd add more RAM. 2 GB is going to be the minimum you can get by with on Vista.

It looks good, though.

[Pythia]

Thanks KatEnigma. Points noted about XP vs Vista. I'm going to do some more research on this over the weekend. News about the Vista sp1 borking even more stuff doesn't really inspire confidence or make me want to buy it. With XP at least I know exactly what I'm getting and I'm familiar with how it all works. So sticking with XP is nosing ahead.

I'm thinking that you're recommending upping the PSU to help future-proof the PC, right? Which seems sensible in that case. I know very little about this area and don't want to shell out loads for a huge PSU I might not utilise fully nor get one too small that it'll need replacing in 6 months. More research needed 

[Zazazu]

Ok, I've got most everything figured out for my upgrade. Went to the Dell site to get RAM recommendations so I don't get the wrong thing...but I'm getting everything elsewhere because even with my company's 20% discount, it's overpriced. However, they only listed a Radeon x1650 XT as the highest graphics card they have for me, and I want the Procolor x1950 Pro (512 mb as opposed to my 256 mb and basically everything prettier, shinier, with 3.0 shaders). There's notes on newegg about making sure that your power supply is sufficient. I don't know what my power supply is and can't find any information anywhere.

How do I locate information on my power supply?

[mildlydisguised]

Open your case and the info you need should be written on the side of the PSU itself.  If it isn't visible you may need to remove the unit as the info may be on the non-visible side.

Hopefully it won't be less than a 550W unit as that should be sufficient to run the system you already have plus the upgrade to the X1950.

[jolrei]

Open your case and the info you need should be written on the side of the PSU itself.  If it isn't visible you may need to remove the unit as the info may be on the non-visible side.

Hopefully it won't be less than a 550W unit as that should be sufficient to run the system you already have plus the upgrade to the X1950.

Right - 550W should be ample.  However, it's also worth noting that power-supply is not the place to make economies when building a rig.  A lot of the "el-cheapo" power-supplies do not produce a solid, stable 550W consistently, which can lead to uneven running and some crashes (so I'm told - I was warned off and never tried it  ).  The better PS units also tend to have better cooling, which probably means longer run life as well.  Anyhow, I run with 450W stable power, having spent a little bit more for a reliable brand name PS, and life in Simville is good.

[Zazazu]

What brand did you go with? I haven't had a chance to look at Addison's insides yet (opening things when they have power running to them makes me extremely nervous, even though I know he's got a lot of space between the panel and his motherboard) but I'm almost 100% sure that it's not a 550W. I'm getting such great quoted prices on the graphics card and RAM that I'd be fine with anything less than $300 for the PSU. And that's way, way more than I'm seeing charged.

Here's what I'm looking at: http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=58&name=Power-Supplies
The Rosewill RP550V2-S-SL 550W looks great at first glance, lots of nice reviews and $59.99, but the COOLER MASTER Real Power Pro RS-650-ACAA-A1 650W is of course higher and still not bad at all at $109.99.

[jolrei]

I recall looking at Thermaltake, Coolermaster, and Antek.  My memory (which is questionable at best) suggests that I finally went with an Antek 430W, which is not listed on the Newegg site, as far as I can tell.  Prices have come down a fair bit, I note, since I built Frankenstein.  I'll check through my notes etc. on this and confirm what I actually went with.  I know it's not more than 430W, but it's a very stable, consistent 430.  I think I paid $80 or so a year and a half ago for something that costs $40 now.  Maybe you can make economies now after all.

I was looking at a 450W PS at $25, and a techie friend talked me out of it which is why I recall going for the more expensive component.

Edit:  @Zazazu:  I have the Thermaltake Purepower 430W.  Very solid.  Naturally, you will have to determine the wattage required for whatever processor, mobo, and other components combination you put together.  Bigger is not "worse", and may be better if you're adding higher end cards (i.e. video) than my system has.

[KatEnigma]

I highly recommend the OCZ power supplies. They all have stellar reviews on Newegg. I have a 530w one (now obsolete. LOL!) and it alone lowered my system temperature by 10º C. My only complaint is that the cables were so thick and high quality that they didn't want to bend nicely. It's also QUIET. I can personally attest to OCZ's excellent customer service, as well. Newegg has a 600w one on sale right now for $89.99 if you find that you need to replace yours.

I don't know where mildly is getting 550w for the 1950 from, though. The number I'm seeing is 450. I looked last night, because I'm putting the 1950 Pro into my new system, and am going to reuse my PSU and case.  But then, I'm not paranoid about it because I only run with 1 HD and 1 optical drive.

[KatEnigma]

The link to the toshiba won't work, but I looked, and couldn't see what graphics chip it had anywhere on the page.

The Compaq might run the game. It won't be great, but I can run through OFB on a laptop with worse. Of course, you'll be stuck with Vista, and you want to run Seasons, which borked the Nvidia drivers more, so maybe not.

If that's all the budget you have, you need to either get a desktop NOT a laptop, or wait until you've saved up enough money to get a laptop that will run TS2 properly.

[jolrei]

Again, any opinion helps. I know they aren't the best, but that's about where my budget lies. My current computer has to run everything on the lowest settings, so I'm not worried about low settings (although better ones would be nice!). I've got a 32MB graphics card, 512MB ram, WinXP, and I think around 1.5ghz.

It looks like there were some suggestions for ATI cards, since they tended to have fewer problems, especially with integrated and low-end cards.

If you have to go for a laptop, I'd go with the Toshiba, mainly because of the ATI built in card.  If you do that, you will likely want to upgrade to the 2Gig of RAM (which appears to be an option).  I personally don't like laptops because I don't get to choose all components - I'd rather build my own rig.  That said, you can get a bigger bang for the buck if you go with a desktop rig, but I don't know what other requirements you have for your computer (maybe it needs to travel - I often wish my Sims 2 desktop machine could travel with me during family reunions with my inlaws, for example).

I have an onboard ATI X200 (on an X300 chipset - considerably older than what is offered with the Toshiba) and it does a great job with TS2, even when it shares memory with my 1Gig RAM computer.  On the other hand, this may be because the other components of my rig are pretty good too.  There are other "MATYvillians" who have better systems than mine on paper, who have had difficulties playing, so it really pays to make sure you meet/exceed the system requirements.

[Zazazu]

Well, thanks all. I just ordered my upgrade. Wasn't cheap, but should do me well for another two years, maybe even three. I decided against upgrading my processor just yet as I couldn't find one that wasn't inordinately expensive and a significant step up from my current one. This is what I have coming:

POWERCOLOR X1950PRO512MBAC Radeon X1950PRO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Supported Video Card

OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply
 
2 G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ


Apparently, my current power supply is only 375W. 

[jolrei]

God bless this upgrade, and all sims who sail in her.

And something to smash against the bow, when the time comes...

[veilchen]

I was hoping to find someone who knows laptops. I'm thinking of replacing my dead PC with a laptop. It would be easier to bring back home with me - I don't want a PC, shipping one over would be too expensive. I do need a computer though. A relative recommended this one:

http://www.ibuypower.com/ibp/store/configurator.aspx?mid=249

What do you think? I am not very savvy on hardware at all. Would that one play TS2, Oblivion, and the like? A friend already told me that this computer would do nicely, but I've read things about Sims and Oblivion since then that make me a little leery. Such that Oblivion needs a certain T&S function, and a lot of laptops can't provide that transparency and shader function.

[Zazazu]

The processor's a bit on the low side for Oblivion. I have a 3.0Ghz one (non-duo, though), 2 gigs RAM. I can barely run Oblivion. The FPS is between 14-20, and that's with all my options fairly low, low poly grass mesh replacements, less grass settings, and absolutely nothing running in the background. Oblivion kicks computer ass. Should be ok for Sims, though.

Graphics card looks good to me.

*I get my shinies today!*

[veilchen]

Thank you, Zazazu. So even if I order the 2.4 processor, I still would have problems then. I never really understood the dual vs. other core thing. I don't know if that would make a difference. I know that desk-top PC's have single and dual core processors, and someone told me that a single core processor, like the old celerons have, is completely useless for the newer games.

Plus, it would come with Vista, which I heard is an enormous system hog all on its own. If it has problems with Oblivion, I guess I could kiss any plans for NWN2 goodbye. The sims, as big as it is, seems to have the least problems with lower end processors.