Building/Upgrading a PC for TS2

[Hegelian]

Currently the best AGP option (in the U.S., anyway) is the X800 GTO from Sapphire, PowerColor, etc. The 250W power supply probably is not sufficient for this (although if you don't have problems with the Radeon 9800, which also requires its own power connection, perhaps you can get by with it).

If you want to replace the power supply (PSU), you need to make sure the new PSU is pin-compatible with the Dell PSU and motherboard; Dell has been known to use proprietary PSUs in some PCs that do not have standard pin assignments, so it is possible that an after-market PSU could burn out the motherboard. You can use the pin diagram in the document you linked to verify that the replacement PSU has the same pin assignments as the Dell PSU—you are mostly concerned with the DC Power Connector P1. If possible, it would be a good idea to contact the PSU manufacturer's tech support to find out if their products are compatible with your particular Dell.

The other possible problem is that the PSU slot in Dell cases does not always accept a standard PSU; Dell's PSUs often have non-standard dimensions. Basically, Dell does not want you to upgrade your PC, they want you to buy a new one.

PC Power & Cooling makes Dell-compatible PSUs in addition to their high-quality standard PSUs:
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/power_supplies/dell/

The site includes a Dell PSU selector:
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/power_supplies/selector/dell.htm

The PSU for the Dimension 8300 is the Silencer 410 Dell-2 @ US$119.
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S41D2

If you're concerned about heat, you can add case fans if the case has any unused fan locations. In particular, a fan in front drawing air in from outside is recommended.

[KittKitt]

I'd have to say Hegelian is dead on with that info, but one small addition that may be of help:

If your Dell PSU is in fact the "Dell pinout" type (which most are), but is at least as large as a standard PSU, there's a converter available to allow you to use any standard ATX PSU you wish.

Shiney Clickey.

The page above shows what to look for on the motherboard to know whether or not this is the case, and from there all you really need to do is measure the physical size of the housing for the PSU in there now to see if a standard one will fit.

Just thought I'd toss it out there in case it's helpful, because honestly, no computer that does anything beyond surfing the web these days should really be using a 250w PSU -particularly with today's video cards.  They're hungry, and not feeding your system sufficient power can result in anything from it refusing to power your video card (thus running in a crippled VGA-only mode) to actually frying components because one draws too much power and the other then gets irregular wattage.

I always use Antec PSU's, which are very good at voltage and watt regulation, and I don't ever go below a 480 watt model.  Once you toss in a few hard drives, a cluster of fans, a couple optical drives, some USB devices, etc etc..  it never hurts to have "too much" power available, and again, my Antec's are very stable, so nothing ever gets any surges.  It can mean a lot in terms of system life and stability.

-Kitt

[Indiasong]

Thank you for your replies. On the page you linked to, the 8300 is stated as not needing a converter. If the European model is equivalent to the US one.
The Dell compatibles are expensive, specially if you add the $35 for delivery.
Just a graphic card would not be possible, would it?
Or a new central unit with just the cpu motherboard and graphic card.

[KittKitt]

If in fact you don't need a converter, then you don't need to replace your motherboard unless you decide you really want to do some upgrading.  Be advised though that doing so means you'll have to be very picky about a new board to be certain it will still use the RAM and processor you have now, so really unless you're looking to significantly upgrade things rather than just getting your video up to the best you can do in your current rig, you probably don't want to go swapping your MOBO out just yet.

Obviously, if you go with a near-full upgrade, you'll get much more noticable results, but it's also going to end up costing a lot more, because you'll be adding several components to the shopping cart.

Assuming you aren't really looking for a complete upgrade, Newegg has the Powercooler X800 GTO in stock for $155.63 (Including 3-day shipping).  I'm not sure about their policy about shipping to Europe however, but if it's not terribly attractive (or available) I'm sure you can find something comprable at either a local shop or somewhere on the web that specifically handles orders in your area.

Then I'd personally reccomend you see about ordering (or buying locally) an Antec TruePower II-480.  They're a great PSU, and will provide plenty of power to ensure your system (and new vid card) have plenty of juice.  I've seen them selling from about $75 to $100 US plus usually about $5 - $10 US shipping, so I would think you can find a vendor with comprable prices for that as well with a little digging.

I'd be happy to help you track some things down or field additional questions if you need.  Just ask. 

-Kitt

[Indiasong]

Thank you. Right now the only x800 card I found was out of stock. And one customer advice stated it ran very hot.
Any other quality card?
 Someone on a board said that nvidia needed less power, my eyes are getting tired. Maybe the same as mine with 256 instead of 128? But they seem to be difficult to find too.

[KittKitt]

Heck, there's plenty of other quality cards out there.  These days however, anything that's not seriously outdated tech is going to run considerably hotter and require more power than the old generation stuff did.

For example, you can snag a GeForce 6800 AGP 256 Meg card, though those retail at about $200 US give or take.

If you don't mind a bit of performance and feature loss, you can drop down to a 6600 GT series AGP for about half that price.  It's all a matter of how much performance you insist upon, and what you're willing to spend to get it really.

It would also seem that the X800 isnt' quite the top-end ATI avaliable in AGP either, which was news to me too.  Apparently, you can also get the X850 Pro in an AGP model as well.

I've not personally done the comparison research for some time, but I would suspect that to be a comparable or perhaps slightly superior card to the Geforce 6800.  It'd take me some digging to actually do the comparison work though, so consider that just a guess.

If at all possible (I'd have to look at your case to know), it would behoove you to add a cooling fan that moves some cool air in the vicinity of your video card regardless of your choice.  The cooler you can keep them, the better and the fans they come with aren't high-velocity enough to really be sufficient alone in many situations.

Even if you can't get a fan directly pointed at the thing, something that will pull some cool external air into the case and move it around even in the vicinity of your expansion slots will be some help.  There's a ton of options for doing this, and what you should go with depends mainly on your case and which options that makes available to you.

-Kitt

[Hegelian]

It would also seem that the X800 isn't quite the top-end ATI avaliable in AGP either, which was news to me too.  Apparently, you can also get the X850 Pro in an AGP model as well.

It's just not as good a value for money as the X800 GTO. On a performance-per-dollar basis, you can't beat the X800 GTO in the AGP format. In the U.S., the Sapphire model is $134 shipped from Newegg; and this is the model than can often be unlocked to 16 pipes.   

There is also the X1600 Pro in AGP, but then you're saddled with DDR 2 with a 128-bit interface, so the X800 GTO is probably a better performer (for about $15 more). If you choose to go that route, don't bother with the 512 MB version, and make sure the model you get has the appropriate outputs—some models have one DVI (digital LCD) and one D-Sub (CRT) connector, whereas others have two DVI connectors so you need an adapter for a CRT, which could lead to image degradation (which may or may not be noticeable to you).

[KittKitt]

It's just not as good a value for money as the X800 GTO. On a performance-per-dollar basis, you can't beat the X800 GTO in the AGP format. In the U.S., the Sapphire model is $134 shipped from Newegg; and this is the model than can often be unlocked to 16 pipes.   

Aye.  Noted, and I fully admit that it's been a while since I did any research or comparisons of the myriad of cards out there, which I attempted to convey above, though it may not have been entirely clear.

With the request however for 'any other quality cards' tossed out there, I figured the others I mentioned were easily within that classification, even were they not necessarily the 'best bang' selection.

In short, don't take anything I already said as trying to refute Hegelian.  Without going through pages and pages of independant reviews and comparisons, I would say the info sounds good to me and I suspect spending the time to actually pursue said comparisons would likely merely confirm this. 

-Kitt

[Hegelian]

I didn't take it as a refutation. I just wanted to make it clear that I didn't intend to suggest the X800 GTO was the only high-performance AGP board out there, only that it is currently the best value (by a wide margin), especially if you can unlock the extra four pixel pipelines. The X850 Pro is probably about the same in real-world performance, but costs about $20 more in the U.S.

I do, however, stand by my assertion that at this price level the ATI boards are a better choice than nVidia-based boards for performance, image quality, and driver stability (I believe the problems a few folks are having with recent driver releases are machine-specific rather than a problem with the drivers). The X800 series have always outperformed their nVidia equivalents, the 6600 series, even matching some of the models in the more expensive 6800 series (of which the better-performing X850 series was the ATI equivalent). Also, nVidia has a long-standing and well-earned reputation for sub-par visual quality (always focusing on benchmark performance) and wonky drivers—I remember fondly one reviewer's description of the image produced by an nVidia board as "knife in the eye."   

ATI has had driver issues in the past, but none that I know of in the last couple years. Similarly, during the period when ATI was focused on the budget and OEM market, the visual quaility of some of their boards was dreadful. Indeed, when it was time to upgrade from a Matrox G400 Max to a DirectX 9 board (by which time Matrox had abandoned the gamer market), it was with some trepidation that I bought a Radeon 9800 Pro. It turned out the "2D" image quality of the 9800 was the equal of the Matrox (the king of image quality in consumer-level graphics), and I haven't looked back since. I've had nothing but excellent results from the Radeon boards I've had, all of which are currently in service in our household.

I admit that my animus toward all things nVidia dates back to the acquisition of 3dfx and the way nVidia (mis)handled it. I've never liked their corporate attitude, nor that of the nVidia fanboys. As long as there is a reasonable alternative, no nVidia for me!   

[kewian]

ok what I want to know is this....how come this update is for sept 8th  but was actually done on sept 7th?

[Frankenbeasley]

I've got an x800xl at the moment, which is basically just a bloody great heatsink with some bits in the middle. It is a great card even without the added bonus of silent running. It handles TS2 and Oblivion pretty well flawlessly. It was certainly a nice move up from the FX5200 which I had before.

[Hegelian]

ok what I want to know is this....how come this update is for sept 8th  but was actually done on sept 7th?

Uh, I did it yesterday. Where I live, yesterday was Sept. 8.

[kewian]

your pos t had said sept 7th... thats what threw me.. 

[brat]

Has anyone bought a conroe yet? I have built one several times but just can't bring myself to push the confirm button until I hear how people with TS2 like it. Thanks.

[SpaceDoll]

I blew up my gaming computer and won't be able to replace it until the new year (yay tax return), so I'm upgrading my old desktop just enough to run the Sims 2.  I have about $100 for both a video card (agp) and memory (this piece of crap compaq has only 256 and can only handle 512).  I found RAM for about 35 bucks with a coupon at upgradememory.com (anyone ever buy from them?) so I have about 40 to 80 dollars for an agp video card. I'm thinking about a GeForce fx5700 or 6200, or a Radeon 9600. At EA support, the 6200 isn't listed as compatible with the game, but I've heard a few people say they play with it. My PSU is only 250 watts, so I think the GeForce 6600 or 6800 are too much, right? Does the 6600 need it's own power supply?  I only have a GeForce 2 on this pitiful box, so anything would be better at this point. Opinions?

[DrBeast]

Personally, I'd go for the 9600. I have the same card on my rig (albeit the Pro version with 256MB of RAM) and the game is running decently. Since it's only a temporary solution, I'd go for it. Plus, it's not as energy demanding as the NVidia cards, so I think your 250W power supply should handle it (barely, truth be told, especially if it's a no-name).

[Indiasong]

Here I am again. I found a x800 gto on Ebay, as there were none to be had in stores.
Assuming I get it and it works, I need a power supply. One that is standard, but without a start/stop button as there is no place for it in the case, sturdy, reliable, efficient and silent. Seasonic is very popular in France, but is rather expensive.
What could you suggest? I'd go for 450w at least. And the ones I saw mentionned pciexpress connectors, but not agp. Should I go looking for outdated power supplies? Here is my current one again: http://support.euro.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8300/sm/techov.htm#1102452

[yetyak]

I blew up my gaming computer and won't be able to replace it until the new year (yay tax return), so I'm upgrading my old desktop just enough to run the Sims 2.  I have about $100 for both a video card (agp) and memory (this piece of crap compaq has only 256 and can only handle 512).  I found RAM for about 35 bucks with a coupon at upgradememory.com (anyone ever buy from them?) so I have about 40 to 80 dollars for an agp video card. I'm thinking about a GeForce fx5700 or 6200, or a Radeon 9600. At EA support, the 6200 isn't listed as compatible with the game, but I've heard a few people say they play with it. My PSU is only 250 watts, so I think the GeForce 6600 or 6800 are too much, right? Does the 6600 need it's own power supply?  I only have a GeForce 2 on this pitiful box, so anything would be better at this point. Opinions?

I have a 6200, and will be replacing it as soon as I can justify the expense.  There are a lot of colorful glitches in the game that never appear at any other time.  Changing to 78.01 drivers helps slightly.

[SpaceDoll]

I found a 6600 for about 90 bucks, if I can find one a little cheaper (maybe refurbished), I'll probably go with that.  Yeah, I'm pretty sure the power supply is no name; it's what came in the box--Compaq Presario 5410us!!  With a 1.3 GHz processor and a 6600, do you think I'll get the cinematics?

Edit: DrBeast, I just re-read your post and saw you wrote 9600, not 6600!  Great, I can get a 9600pro for 20 or 30 bucks cheaper than a 6600!  Yay, I will be simming a lot sooner! What about the cinematics?

[Hegelian]

Here I am again. I found a x800 gto on Ebay, as there were none to be had in stores.
Assuming I get it and it works, I need a power supply. One that is standard, but without a start/stop button as there is no place for it in the case, sturdy, reliable, efficient and silent. Seasonic is very popular in France, but is rather expensive.
What could you suggest? I'd go for 450w at least. And the ones I saw mentionned pciexpress connectors, but not agp.

ATX motherboards (virtually everything out there these days) switch on the power supplies these days, so you don't really need a switch on the PSU, although it won't hurt. The X800 GTOs that I have seen use a regular Molex power plug like the one that connects to an IDE/ATA hard drive.

[DrBeast]

Edit: DrBeast, I just re-read your post and saw you wrote 9600, not 6600!  Great, I can get a 9600pro for 20 or 30 bucks cheaper than a 6600!  Yay, I will be simming a lot sooner! What about the cinematics?

OK, having a 1.3GHz processor DEFINITELY tips the scale all the way towards the Radeon 9600! Having a 6600 on such an anemic (with regards to processor power) system is a waste of graphics processor power (and money!). Cinematics work just fine with the Radeon card, but I don't know if your processor is up to it.

[Hegelian]

OK, having a 1.3GHz processor DEFINITELY tips the scale all the way towards the Radeon 9600! Having a 6600 on such an anemic (with regards to processor power) system is a waste of graphics processor power (and money!). Cinematics work just fine with the Radeon card, but I don't know if your processor is up to it.

Probably not, sorry to say. We had a machine with a 1.7 GHz Celeron and no cinematics until we upgraded to a 2.8 GHz P4.

Frankly, with that processor, it's probably not worth the money to buy a new graphics board for TS2. The main limiter of TS2 performance is the CPU; it would make more sense to forgo the graphics board and save up for a new PC, or at least attempt to find a faster CPU to replace that 1.3 GHz part. Sorry.   

[nekonoai]

What causes the game to run so slow sometimes [mostly on big lots]? Is it inadequate processor, video card, or ram? My processor's a 2.6ghz, and I have 512 of ram... Can't remember what video card I have, I'll hafta fill that in later, but I bought the card because it was on the list on the Maxis site. In fact, I built this computer TO PLAY SIMS. haha. I was a month behind everyone else in playtime, but I didn't care, it was worth it. But I can't play a lot bigger than 3x2 without SIGNIFICANT slowdown.  [sorry if this doesn't belong here, but it IS a hardware thread and this is a hardware question]

I'd love to hear any feedback.

[ZiggyDoodle]

I've been thinking of upgrading the ATI Radeon X300SE (128MB PCI Express x16)  that came with my Dell 8400 (Pentium 4, 3.2GHz and 2GB SDRAM).

ATI has a trade up program and credits at least $50 if you order direct and send your old card to them, so I want to stick with them. 

The current card is sufficient, but does lag a bit and is bottom line.

The power supply on my system is rated 350W.

Anyone out there using and liking one of the higher end Radeon cards enough to suggest it?

[Hegelian]

What causes the game to run so slow sometimes [mostly on big lots]? Is it inadequate processor, video card, or ram?

Processor - mostly
Graphics board - somewhat, but mostly this affects the level of detail you can have. But turning down the detail settings can improve game performance.
RAM - a bit; this mostly affects loading times for textures and the like—more textures (and, presumably, character data) can be stored in RAM so less swapping to disk is necessary (so the game doesn't need to wait for the data). I find that with 1 GB or more of RAM, doing a couple turns around the lot from a somewhat zoomed-out position (a couple times for each level) will load most of the needed textures into RAM, reducing lag (although not completely).

My processor's a 2.6ghz, and I have 512 of ram...

So-so, at this point in time. My CPU is a 2.8 GHz P4,and lots with a lot of CC or with many sims can be pretty slow. Turning down certain video settings can speed this up a bit (edge smoothing, reflections, and whether you can see neighboring lots, in particular), but you can only achieve so much this way. Adding RAM can help also by reducing disk access as you move around a lot, and the game can easily consume more than 1.5 GB if you go clothes shopping and have a lot of custom clothes. To get the most out of additional RAM, you need to tweak your paging file settings to reduce the size of the paging file to force Windows to use all the physical RAM you have, and, ideally, turn off executive paging either by editing the registry or using a memory-tweaking tool like Cacheman XP. But really, the CPU is the main factor, and whether you have anything running in the background (I always disable my anti-virus before starting the game).

Can't remember what video card I have, I'll hafta fill that in later, but I bought the card because it was on the list on the Maxis site.

The list of supported graphics boards is pretty much a list of boards available when the game was finalized, and earlier. More recent boards aren't listed. The list of supported boards is pretty much a list of what the minimum is to play the game.

 

I've been thinking of upgrading the ATI Radeon X300SE (128MB PCI Express x16)  that came with my Dell 8400 (Pentium 4, 3.2GHz and 2GB SDRAM).

The X300SE was a budget OEM part right from the beginning. Moving to an X800 GTO or X850 XT would be a huge improvement. There are faster boards out there for PCI-E in the X1900 line, but at the moment the X850 XT should match or better the performance of any of the X1600 boards—and it costs less than many X800 GTO boards.   

ATI has a trade up program and credits at least $50 if you order direct and send your old card to them, so I want to stick with them.

Be sure to do some price shopping. ATI will charge you full MSRP for the new board, which you may be able to get for less from a reputable online retailer—plus, you would still have the X300 as a backup. The Sapphire Radeon X850 XT is $114 from Newegg, and there's currently a $20 mail-in rebate. You would need to check your PC to make sure there is a free slot next to the PCI-E 16x slot though, because the fan on this exhausts out the back of the case.

For about the same price you can get a Radeon X1600 XT, but these only have 12 pixel pipelines instead of the X850 XT's 16 pipes. To beat the X850 XT you would need to go the 256 MB version of the X1800 XT which will run you in excess of US$200; it also requires a free slot for its cooling aparatus. 

The power supply on my system is rated 350W.

Depending on its quality,this could be sufficient for now if you have only one hard drive and one optical drive. Upgrading Dell PSUs can be dicey, because they and their associated motherboards sometimes use non-standard pin assignments for the motherboard power connection; and standard PSUs sometimes will not fit Dell's proprietary cases. PC Power & Cooling makes top-quality PSUs for Dell PCs.

Anyone out there using and liking one of the higher end Radeon cards enough to suggest it?

I definitely recommend the X800 GT and X800 GTO for those who can't budget an X1900-series board. Mine are both AGP models; for PCI-E I recommend the X850 XT, which should be just like the X800 GTO only faster.