The secret life of exterminators and toddlers?

[Talismana]

Can anyone offer an explaination (other than imminent BFBVFS) why three of the children in one of my families, one of them a toddler, possess a memory of "Robi Charvat" getting married when they've never met a Mr. Charvat?

Robi, from all appearances, is a NPC exterminator, but then I wouldn't know, as none of my families have ever hired an exterminator...in fact, I've never seen an exterminator in my game...I've never seen a "Charvat" in my game, for that matter.

[buddha pest]

I had something like this in Pleasantview.

A bunch of people had a memory of Brittany Something-or-other getting married. I had never seen this Brittany before, and anyway she supposedly was a kid.

I never got a BFBVFS though.

[RainbowTigress]

Sometime after I got TS2 and started playing Pleasantview, Angela Pleasant got a memory of David Thompson getting married.  I never could figure out why because she didn't know a David Thompson.  I finally figured out that he is one of the carpool drivers that Sims never meet even though he drives them to work every day.   I figured that the memory actually applied to Daniel Pleasant because it was around the time that he and Mary Sue got remarried (she kicked them out but they kept having wants for each other, so I let them get back together before they died).  I've since fixed it in SimPE, but I've never seen anything like that since.

[Talismana]

Interesting. What a convoluted, truly bizarre game this is.

So far, I see two commonalties--first, each of these occurrences involved children, in one way or another, and second, each occurred in Pleasantview...perhaps due to some glitch particular to the neighbourhood?

Rainbow, your mention of the Pleasant's remarriage caught my eye because, in this case also, it occurred very near the time the parents of these children, finally, married (Better late than never. Yes? )

I'm now determined to peek at who the rest of my Sim kids are socializing with while my back's turned...and here I thought the strangest memories I'd encountered were those of Sims kissing themselves for the first time...hmmm, on second thought, those instances Still win by a nose.

Since we're discussing memories, I've just remembered something else I've been meaning to look into for some time now; it didn't seem important enough to warrant a thread of its own--when I move a family into a house, each family member receives TWO "moved in" memories. It's been this way, consistently, since day one, and long before I added my first mod...this can't be 'normal'...hmmm or Can it?

[cwykes]

Please excuse if this is a bit "suck eggs" but clarity never hurts....... 
Every time two sims talk to each other, they pass on memories. Sometimes sims pass on their own memories (things that happened to them), sometimes they pass on memories belonging to other sims (things they saw or heard).  Gossip is all about passing on information about other sims.  The kids memory of the exterminator could have come from the kid talking to mum or dad who got it from a friend who got it from their auntie, who heard it from the driver who bumped into Charvat on a community lot.  You get the idea.......  The kids don't have to have met the guy to get a memory, but that memory is in the game somewhere or they wouldn't have got it.  I don't think a BFBVS is going to create memories.

There are lots of good threads on MATY about memory or memories - search is a useful tool here... 

Two move in icons doesn't sound right - no ideas though.

[RainbowTigress]

But Talismana says he never had the exterminator in his game, and the only way an NPC could get married is if you have one of your playable sims marry him.  Otherwise, there shouldn't be any memories of his getting married floating around.  Secondly, memories passed on through gossip are usually "invisible" memories.  These cannot be viewed from within the game, only by using the a memory editor such as the one in SimPE.  I assume Talismana was seeing these memories from inside the game.  Is that correct, Talismana?

In my case, as I mentioned, the NPC was a carpool driver, and it is impossible to ever meet them.  So it is not possible that he could have gotten married.  Also, she had a memory of her mother getting married, but the next memory was that of David Thompson getting married, and I figured the game must have pulled the wrong NID or something for the memory.  It was early in the game, before patches, hacks, fixes, and EPs, so who knows.  Also, this occurred when Angela was an adult and her parents had moved out of the house.  (Yeah, the parents moved out.  Mary Sue moved out to be with her mom Coral when Herb died, and then Daniel ended up moving in with her after Coral died and they got married.)

I've always wondered about this mysterious memory, but I've never seen anyone else mention anything like it until now.

[Talismana]

Secondly, memories passed on through gossip are usually "invisible" memories.  These cannot be viewed from within the game, only by using the a memory editor such as the one in SimPE.  I assume Talismana was seeing these memories from inside the game.  Is that correct, Talismana?

Correct, rainbow.

cwykes--Not at all, I appreciate any additional clarity I can gain re the game. There's no question my working knowledge leaves plenty of room for improvement.

I do posses an (obviously) limited understanding of the basics relating to the, virus-like, memory system of the game, so, I did make a cursory check to see if anyone in these children's family, or immediate orbit, also shared the memory. I've not yet had an occasion to check every one of each child's friends, so, this could still, prove to be a source....only, now rainbow has pointed out this NPC's marriage was, essentially, impossible and I do understand her logic here so, perhaps, it's a moot point?

I'm still scratching my head over how a toddler, who can't yet converse with Anyone, learned a memory. Does it happen by osmosis? Does a Sim even need speak to another to gain a memory, or can it simply spill over into their brain via proximity? So, yes, some room for improvement here, and I will browse MATY's search, as you suggested.

Another thing that helped aid my confusion, was my thinking that this particular memory seemed to belong to a NPC who hadn't even been created and I'm beginning to strongly suspect that my understanding of how various NPC's come into being is completely flawed. I thought that some NPCs were 'spawned' as needed, and since I've never used an exterminator in my game, I logically, though mistakenly I'm now sure, believed this character couldn't, technically, exist TO possess memories.

Sheesh, I sure don't help clarify much. What I'm, abysmally, attempting to now ask is--Is there an initial 'seeding' of exterminators in every game? I did think this was the case with Grim, nannies and the social bunny. Don't ask me to explain Why I thought it any different when it came to exterminators, but there you have it.

[J. M. Pescado]

Correct, rainbow.

cwykes--Not at all, I appreciate any additional clarity I can gain re the game. There's no question my working knowledge leaves plenty of room for improvement.

I do posses an (obviously) limited understanding of the basics relating to the, virus-like, memory system of the game, so, I did make a cursory check to see if anyone in these children's family, or immediate orbit, also shared the memory. I've not yet had an occasion to check every one of each child's friends, so, this could still, prove to be a source....only, now rainbow has pointed out this NPC's marriage was, essentially, impossible and I do understand her logic here so, perhaps, it's a moot point?

The NPC marriage is probably a result of data corruption, since obviously, the NPC was never married and even if it was, a memory like that would not appear visibly unless the NPC was a relative, only as an invisible gossip token.

I'm still scratching my head over how a toddler, who can't yet converse with Anyone, learned a memory. Does it happen by osmosis? Does a Sim even need speak to another to gain a memory, or can it simply spill over into their brain via proximity? So, yes, some room for improvement here, and I will browse MATY's search, as you suggested.

Sims may spontaneously acquire the invisible token of an event that occurs within proximity of them, essentially by osmosis.

[DrBeast]

Unless you start with a clean neighborhood (i.e. having used the deleteallcharacters cheat), you get three of each of the service sims. If you open up the neighborhood with SimPE you'll see that they've been created already. The game only creates a new one on a per-need basis if the criterion of 3/each service sims isn't met, such as if you move-in a service NPC or kill one.

[RainbowTigress]

That name looks like one I might have seen before in SimPE when browsing character files.  Toddlers are very limited in their interactions with others and tend to be limited to "Feed me," "Change me," and "Pay attention to me."  There are a couple of ways you can get them to converse.  The Rabbit head toy is excellent for this.  The parents can come "Play With," and they "talk" while the child is playing and gaining charisma.  This helps with social for both sims and also boosts their relationship.  But if there are visitors in the house, they can also converse with the toddler over the rabbit head, either autonomously, or by selecting the toddler, clicking on one of the guests, and clicking "Play With."  I tried this with the logic blocks and the toy xylophone, but they don't seem to get the social boost from this.  Plus, you have to put the toy in the middle of the floor for the older sim to sit in front of it.  But my toddlers have made quite a few friends this way, so they have some friends that aren't just family members when they grow up.  This also increases their influence meter, if you use that.  If you do this, be sure to get TJ's Toddler Toy Death fix, because some sims forget about eating and some have starved to death playing with the toddler!  Most of the time, the toddler has to potty or sleep and this cuts off the interaction. 

I have also learned that if you have twins or two toddlers together, they can talk over the toys in the toybox or the dollhouse, but I haven't done this much because I use the Baby Controller, which doesn't use these objects.  I figure the kids can make friends soon enough when they grow up, and they usually have a want to make a friend when they transition anyway. 

My point is that there are very few ways that toddlers can interact with the outside world, but I suppose it could be possible for a memory to get transferred that way.  I have never seen them discuss memories, just topics, like planes and x-rays and such. 

Speaking of gaining memories by proximity, I remember in one family, the mother was taking care of the baby when the teenager came home with an A+.  This was before I had the no cheering hack.  The teenager came running in and started shouting about her A+, and the mom dropped the baby on the floor to cheer for her.  The baby had a thought bubble with the A+ icon in it, and I made the baby selectable to check his memories, and sure enough, he'd just gotten a memory of his sister getting an A+.  I have seen this other times as well, but this was the first time I really noticed it happening.  Babies get all kinds of memories from stuff that happens around them. 

Once, a baby's parents broke up, and the parent remaining behind was having trouble interacting with the baby.  When I made the baby selectable, it had a blank icon in its queue saying "Parents broke up."  In a toddler, child, or teen, they would start crying inconsolably when they got this icon, but the baby couldn't.  I think it would have timed out, but that was weird.

[Talismana]

The NPC marriage is probably a result of data corruption

I wonder if it could possibly have had anything to do with my employing Merola's Mind Control Mirror to render two NPCs selectable while both paid an unusually extended visit during the time period this memory was most likely to have been recorded?

Sims may spontaneously acquire the invisible token of an event that occurs within proximity of them, essentially by osmosis.

Thank you for this clarification, Mr Pescado, Sir...or would that be Sire?

Unless you start with a clean neighborhood (i.e. having used the deleteallcharacters cheat), you get three of each of the service sims.

And thank you too, for filling in some blanks, Dr.

Toddlers are very limited in their interactions with others

I do realize that many ppl are thrilled to have as little to do with infants and toddlers as possible, but I happen to feel that Maxis miserably dropped the ball there. The more I play the game, the more I think what's truly missing, besides the obvious glaring lapses of basic common sense, was the opportunity to allow personality AND chance to play some part in an events outcome...especially, had Maxis been innovative enough to incorporate these random outcomes into the Sims developmental stages in a way that directly influenced individual personalities traits, interests, etc. down the road...oh, well.

I tried this with the logic blocks and the toy xylophone, but they don't seem to get the social boost from this.  Plus, you have to put the toy in the middle of the floor for the older sim to sit in front of it.

I did recently attempt the same and, also, noticed the awkwardness of initiating these interactions. Eventually, I elected to leave the blocks cluttering up the middle of a pathway where they were accessible, and true to life, but nonetheless not so pleasing to my pesky obsessive-compulsive streak. It was probably good therapy.

If you do this, be sure to get TJ's Toddler Toy Death fix

Coincidentally, I picked this up only the other day, but had to point and laugh at myself for DLing it. That OCD I just mentioned? It renders the odds of my loosening my micro managing, G.I Joe death grip long enough to weaken, let alone actually lose a Sim in this manner, to something approaching zilch.

My point is that there are very few ways that toddlers can interact with the outside world, but I suppose it could be possible for a memory to get transferred that way

I never used to pay very much attention. Up until this experience I've thought of Toddlers as little more than, if I'm fortunate, window dressing, but this experience may have changed all that.

the mom dropped the baby on the floor to cheer for her.  The baby had a thought bubble with the A+ icon in it, and I made the baby selectable to check his memories, and sure enough, he'd just gotten a memory of his sister getting an A+

Hah...this actually makes perfect sense, which convinces me it was purely coincidental.

[nocomment]

I have an exterminator named Robi Charvat in my game.  The gypsy chose him for Kaylynn's blind date.  I wasn't impressed with his grubby clothes, but she's crazy about him.

He's probably a standard sim who comes with the game.  That means it could be some simple error that caused the memories.