Tutorial: Deleting, Creating, and Generating Townies OFB and pre-OFB

[Mizz Rose Bud]

okay ... I look out for them tonight when I fire up my game ...

Thanks

Rose

[Mizz Rose Bud]

I can´t find them in action. The only times I see the to "townies" is when they just walk by ... I´m almost convinced that they aren´t related to any community lot ... darn you Maxis 

Rose

[shanpooter]

OK, this may be a dumb question, but I have recently created a new 'hood, cleaned out all the characters, deleted all of the SWAF, relations, memories, and sim descriptions.  This was awhile ago.  I finally got around to creating new townies for the 'hood, and using inge's shrub to make them downtownies.  I just decided to open up SimPE and have a look at them, and in the sim description window I have two unkonwns.  I am positive that they were not there before.  Is it safe to delete these?  Where did they come from?  I do not want to start over, but I am determined to do what it takes to have a "clean" neighborhood before I start playing.  (Once I accomplish this, I will make a backup to a disk to use as a template, so I do not have to do this again!

[Kyna]

One of the unknowns has been there since the base game, I believe it's the Mystery Sim they all had relations with (although I could be wrong). 

The second unknown was added by OFB.  I notice that it seems to collect memories in my houses with cleanbots and sentrybots in the frontyard.  As in memories of events that happen in the front yard (eg promotions, and gossip from conversations & phonecalls that take place there).  So I think it's holding the memories of the sentrybots and/or cleanbots.

These unknowns are required by the game.  Don't delete them.

[RainbowTigress]

You're probably right about the bots, Kyna.  I haven't looked in SimPE, but I know the game treats them as a Sim.  I have Merola's mirror, and I made the clean bot selectable.  It has a blank thumbnail.  It had a Family aspiration and was in complete aspiration failure with the meter full red.  It had two blank wants with one want to get married and the other to have a baby.  But I don't see anything in the Memories section.  It did have two icons in its action queue.  I had a teen get abducted before going to college, and Witness abduction was in  queue along with Welcome Home.    The teen had long since gone to college.  Strange.

[shanpooter]

OK, thanks guys.  I thought I might have messed up somewhere.  I'm relieved that I don't have to start again.  It is nice to know whats going on in my game.  Kinda strange about the robots.  I wonder why they need to be treated as a sim.

[jsalemi]

One of the unknowns has been there since the base game, I believe it's the Mystery Sim they all had relations with (although I could be wrong). 

I think it's actually the remote control car, which the game has always treated like an NPC.  All the autonomous bots get lumped under the second unknown since OFB.  That's why outgoing sims actually great the robots when they walk by, which I always thought was kinda silly.

[Kyna]

That would be why I've never seen the first unknown have any memories when I looked in SimPE.  I never use the remote control car.  I understand it's supposed to be safe now (especially as I've write-protected the objects file) but I'm just not in the habit of using it.

[RainbowTigress]

Yeah, I used it a few times a long time ago, but the sims became obsessed with it, as they are wont to do, so I sold it. 

[Ancient Sim]

My custom hood is on Day 40 now and I know I should abandon it.  I did what you say not to do - created the main neighbourhood and the subhoods (all custom, no Maxis ones), then simply went out and deleted all the character files (without bothering with deleteallcharacters).  I forgot all about SWAFS and DNA and it wasn't long before the problems started.  ALL my toddlers had strange wants (if they had any at all) and I had to spend ages deleting SWAFS and stuff.

What is weirdest though is that certain Sims keep getting strange relationships with people they don't even know.  It seems to be certain Sims in particular, although there is no pattern to them.  One is a CAS made adult male, another is my first CAS made YA, one is the second child born in the game, and several are townies/dormies.  The first two, for instance, apparently knew every single Professor in the game and had various relationships with them (the toddler, for instance, was married to one of them).  The in-born girl has gone one step further insofar as she apparently has a relationship with more or less every single Sim in the neighbourhood. The first YA created has basically the same problem.

I also had NPC's who were married to each other, parents of each other, etc.  There was no notice taken of gender or age - for instance, the papergirl was apparently the mother of one of the elder male cooks, who in turn was the father of a male elder Professor (making the papergirl the Professor's grandmother!).   Three of the NPC's also appeared to know more or less everyone in the neighbourhood, namely a gardener, mail delivery person and a fireman. No matter how many times I delete these relationships, they just keep coming back.  The 'known' box is never ticked, incidentally, but the relationship bars always show varying numbers.  It doesn't help that whenever a Sim is merely in the presence of another Sim, it produces a relationship between them in SimPE.  I would much rather that only happened when they actually met the Sim and the 'known' box was ticked, but that's another issue.

I didn't have a Diva, Mr Big, or Slobs until about Day 30, when it finally dawned on me that the game had never spawned any, so I had to create those myself with the tree.  Instantly, several of my Sims appeared to know them, even though they'd only just been created and not appeared anywhere (I left the game as soon as they'd been created to check).  None of these Sims were on the lot they were spawned on and several weren't even in the main neighbourhood, they were YA's. 

Anyway, I don't know if the way I created the neighbourhood caused all this to happen, but it's downright weird and I have no idea why it is continuing to happen.  The neighbourhood plays normally and obviously these relationships don't show-up in the game, nor do they show in Family Relations, but they're in the relationship sections.  The most puzzling thing is why the ticks keep coming back in "Married" and so on when I keep deleting them and why it keeps respawning the relationships.  The only way to get rid of them for good is to go through the character files and remove them, which is an absolute pain in the butt because SimPE forces you off the Relations list into the SimPool each time you delete one and you have to keep going back to find your place again to delete the next (that will only make sense to anyone who's done it!).  Deleting the relationships in Sim Relationships doesn't work, even if you delete both, they just come back.

BTW, what are all these Family Unknowns, are they something that's leftover from the beginning?  I haven't got rid of any families and I have about 11 or 12 of them.  One new one appeared only yesterday and I didn't delete any families or change any, although I did create two new ones.  I am wary of deleting them because I don't know what they are - does anyone know if it's safe to do so?

I may start a new neighbourhood when the forthcoming furry expansion that doesn't actually exist comes out, but that would be a problem insofar as I wouldn't want the usual crappy P'view townies, but I might want the new furry families and obviously this method wouldn't work then, so is there another way around that?

[Mizz Rose Bud]

I wrote :

So far my hood runs fine, but something mysterious have happend. I have the notownieregen hack installed in my Downloads folder, but the game have started to generate it´s own townies. So far there is 2 lurking around in my hood.

Is it caursed by using the Matchmaker woman or do the game ignore the hack 

One of them (Lee) have made relationships with my own sims, guess that he´ll meet Mr. G. Reaper soon, but the other one (Christopher) have no relationships with anyone or any memories other that the usual ...went to college,  meet mystery sim etc. ..... can he be deleted or should he populate my community graveyard along with Lee.

Mystery solved ... the 2 sims are the ones who answers the phone, when sims call their work ...  DOH !

My custom hood is on Day 40 now and I know I should abandon it.

I created my CC hood like it is described, and it is way over 40 days and running fine ... I have 9 families and 11 teens now ... no problems other the one above, that now is "solved".
I woyld start over if I was you ... it sounds very annoying ... except for this :

for instance, the papergirl was apparently the mother of one of the elder male cooks, who in turn was the father of a male elder Professor (making the papergirl the Professor's grandmother!)

that was hilarious LOL

Rose

[Havelock]

You have not deleted the leftover Simrelations the got assigned to other Sims now.
 Every Townie created  by making a new Neigbourhood gets some relations at the beginning. If you delete those Sims delete also there relations.
 Or get them in a weird way assigned to other Sims. I dont know what generates unknown families.
 But i had them in my old Neighbourhood where i putted in Sims created in different Neigbouhoods. I think they are unlinked Sims.

[Kyna]

I noticed those relationships in SimPE last time I tried this.

I put in the base hood + the stripped Bluewater that's in another topic here (stripped of character files).  I deleted all characters.  I had a look in SimPE, and there were relationships there.  Glancing through the relationships I saw that some were marked as family.  I deleted those relationships in SimPE before I went any further.

I wasn't sure if the problem was with DAC or with the stripped Bluewater, so I didn't post at the time.

[Nec]

As far as I know, all premade Maxis hoods are not DAC capable without problems. Unfortunately I can't help with the rest of the questions at the moment. I haven't played in a couple of months and haven't played with OFB in about 4 months.

[cwykes]

BTW, what are all these Family Unknowns, are they something that's leftover from the beginning?  I haven't got rid of any families and I have about 11 or 12 of them.  One new one appeared only yesterday and I didn't delete any families or change any, although I did create two new ones.  I am wary of deleting them because I don't know what they are - does anyone know if it's safe to do so?

Maybe the unknown families are the ones the deleted townies used to belong to?  I'd say delete them - could be they are part of the problem.  As long as the families of your sims are OK, what have you got to lose?

I know what you mean about cleaning up relationships in SimPE.  It's painful.  So is hitting that commit button all the time to make sure the changes all get saved before you move into another bit of SimPE.

If you delete the married marker on both sims and the relationship, I can't see why it keeps coming back unless SimPE isn't saving the changes.  How about the editing the family relationship tree?  Hitting the commit button harder? Is there a cache somewhere that's not getting cleared when you update... ?

I guess you already deleted the actual character files of deleted sims from the 'hood folder, not just in SimPE.  I know you're supposed to do it, but I've never been sure why.  Do they appear again and mess things up?

I'm getting the feeling that once the 'hood file is messed up, you don't really ever succeed in cleaning it up. Even if you do everything on our checklist.  I've cleaned up a couple of 'hoods and I'm still getting missing wants for a couple of sims.  I don't have Uni or NL with all the extra characters, so I think I have a lower potential for mess... and it still isn't right.

[Havelock]

I have deletet the unknown family files in my cleaned neighbourhood but keep in mind one unknown family must stay its the first one. Dont delete or your neighbourhood wouldnt load next time.

 Its really a pain to get a clean neigbourhood now so many files to delete and dont delete the wrong ones. 

[jrd]

Just a note, ever since GLS according to SimPE (test version) I have six ‘unknown’ Sims in my 'hoods, including new 'hoods.
However I am missing some of the default NPCs such as the shrink, Mrs CB, and the polli tech. so it may be a bug in SimPE itself (none of the Unknowns have character files).
The new SimPE is screwed up anyway, you can't delete SWAFs, SNDAs or relationships unless you go to the top level.

As for ‘family unknowns’, you should have just one of these. Delete them all, and let the game regenerate one.


And just FYI this is the "proper" cleaning process as far as I know now:
1) Create a new hood (base 'hood only)
2) Do a deleteallcharacters. Quit and save.
3) Open the 'hood in SimPE and delete all of the following:
-All Sim Wants and Fears (SWAF)
-All Sim DNA (SDNA)
-All Sim Relationships
4) Save the 'hood, close the package, and reopen. Delete any SWAF/SDNA/Rel that mysteriously reappeared.
5) Start TS2 and load your 'hood. Now create townies by your method of choice (CAS + Teleporter Shrub or Insimenator, Spawn...Family Tree, or the mailbox). If you plan on adding a Downtown later, now also create downtownies (again, either CAS+My shrub/Insimenator or the Family Tree -- remember to switch the FT to downtownie mode).
6) Optionally, create some of the special NPCs now as they may not spawn correctly. Set the FT to downtownie mode, and create the ‘special townies’ (grand vampyre, slob, diva). Remember to set skintone and gender options first.
7) Exit to the 'hood and save and quit. Make a backup of the 'hood file in Win Explorer so you have a "clean copy", saving you time if you ever decide to start from scratch.
If you created custom townies/downtownies in CAS, now is the time to edit their names in SimPE.

[LadyCrimsonSkye]

Is it absolutely necessary to have SimPE and create custom townies, and if so, where can I get it?   

[cwykes]

this is the home of SimPE http://sims.ambertation.de/
It's your game and your hood.  If you want to leave all the maxis generated sims in your game, feel free.  If you want to get rid of them and make your own, you don't have to clean up the files.  If you don't clean them up, the sims you create will have messed up wants and assorted other bugs that will shorten the bugfree life of the 'hood.  If you just want to build it without playing much, that might be fine for you.  Buggy behaviour irritates the heck out of most of us.  The new options on Pescado's lot debugger make it a lot less painful thank goodness and we know now you shouldn't delete any DNA files.

[Jelenedra]

Just out of curiosity how many townies/downtownies do you guys make for your new hoods?

Also, do you make custom dormies or do you leave those alone?

Also, Jordi, shouldn't you add all your subhoods and follow steps 2-4 each time before you start messing with creating new townies?

[cwykes]

I've not got much experience.  I've only done it once and I only have base game and OFB.  I made 3 housefulls of townie shoppers because that's felt about right and anyway it was getting late, I'd run out of ideas and I wanted to see if it would work.  I wanted enough shoppers that it wasn't always exactly the same 3 sims who came shopping - running a business in a small hood gets almost incestuous.  So I guess how many you create depends on how many you need for your game. Err on the low side I guess.  You can always add more, but taking them out is tedious.

[LadyCrimsonSkye]

Thank you for your reply.  So deleting DNA is unnecessary?  I want to create my own townies, but am seriously considering letting Uni and Downtown make theirs automatically.  This is possible, right?

[jrd]

Jelenedra: the reason I recommend leaving out subhoods until later is that you may not always want to add the same subhoods, and doing it this way leaves a clean copy.
But you could add subhoods in step 1.

I make the following townies:
8 adult male
8 adult female
2 teen male
2 teen female
1 elder male
1 elder female
1 child male
1 child female
-----------------+
24 townies

Added to this:

6 adult male
6 adult female
2 teen male
2 teen female
----------------+
16 downtownies

24 townies
-----------------+
40 nonplayables in total.

Added to this are:
1 slob male
1 slob female
1 diva male
1 diva female
1 vampire count
1 vampire countess
------------------------+
6 special townies

I let the game generate the rest. (NPCs, dormies, SS members, etc.)


LadyCrimsonSkye:  leaving SDNA intact after a DAC may or may not lead to problems. To be safe, delete all SDNA.

[LadyCrimsonSkye]

Jordi:  Thank you VERY much!  This was very helpful.

I'm going to see what I can manage this afternoon and evening, as far as creating townies, downtownies, and such.  I have followed the instructions carefully, so hopefully it will work out for me.   I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

[cwykes]

LadyCrimsonSkye:  leaving SDNA intact after a DAC may or may not lead to problems. To be safe, delete all SDNA.

Pescado is saying delete all the DNA if you have done a deleteallchars.  You only get problems if you've done a partial deletion - you  mess up the DNA of all the sims remaining.  Bizarre!  Pescado told me this on the lot debugger thread just the other day.  I was working to Quaxi's old list, which said do it - I missed the update