How to add new College, Downtown, Shopping District templates

[starrling]

oh!  I hadn't thought of merging a uni.  Duh!  LOL Thank you - I'll give it a try tomorrow and let you know

[cwykes]

I'm making a shopping hood on desert terrain and I'd quite like to have it alongside Bluewater in the default list.  It's attached to an empty 'hood, so the only characters are the maxis generated townies and NPCs.   got it right so far I think... Have to come back and read this all again later...  Just one question for now....

Is it only the playables in the Bluewater hood character file or does it come with ready generated shoppers?  If the townies are in the template I need to take the ones I've got into my new default or I'll have no townie shoppers to buy my overpriced stuff!  I don't have Uni and NL, so I'm not overburdened with rich shoppers especially in Strangetown.

[malone]

Thank you very much to Marvin Kosh for the detailed information on neighborhood template creation.

[cwykes]

I think the problem Marvin had is that you can't make a sub-hood into a template.  It's not that SimPE isn't showing you what you need to edit, it's that the sub-hood is not complete.  I couldn't turn a sub-hood into a template either, but  I've just turned a 'hood into a shopping sub-hood by renumbering files and changing the ID and hood number like Marvin showed us.  It's on desert terrain with some shoppers.  I think we all need an alternative to Bluewater and this sure is different!  I'll put a thread in Peasantry when a couple more people have tested it out for me and I've figured out how to send large files.  It's 20MB in RAR.

I did just what Marvin said except I started with a hood NOT a sub-hood.

[cwykes]

This method works for downtown's as well.   I made a test hood today with 4 lots from MTS2 and Motoki says it works.  We didn't get as far as figuring out whether the special characters would generate as needed like contessa vamp and mr big.  I'd have trouble making a decent downtown though as I don't have NL and the NL content on the lots I used disappeared in transit.   I'll think about it some more, but I'm going to try making a 4th Uni next - check that works too.  Can't see why it wouldn't but a test would be a good idea.

Thanks Marvin for the great tutorial!

[Venusy]

OBJECTION!

[Venusy]

Thread unlocked and moved due to request.

[cwykes]

This method seems to have stopped working with The Seasons.  When you create a new 'hood in The Seasons, you get a "free" suburb thrown in for the seasons stuff.  I tried just deleting that when I did the conversion from hood to suburb, but that didn't work.  Lechapeau and I have found a work around - you can use Numeor's BaseGameStarter tool to create the new hood in a pre-seasons version of your game. http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=107015 So it is still possible to make an alternative suburb or a downtown, but it's a lot more messy and rules out using Seasons stuff in the 'hood.  Does anyone have any experience to share on this or any better ideas?

When I installed Seasons, I found that:
1. The counter isn't fixed.  You have to swap Sedona and Bluewater in the default folder to install your choice.  You get the big Bluewater icon in game even if it is Sedona in the default files. 
2. you can't add Bluewater to a hood that already has Sedona or vice versa. You can only add an empty map.
3. the game doesn't like missing suburb numbers from deleting suburbs - I'm still investigating that one, but the screen starts flashing when I try to get into them. could be some other problem I suppose, but the only problems are with hoods where the suburb numbers didn't run 001, 002, 003 http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,9008.0.html

I did start making a second default suburb for OFB, but it got too big.  It's up for download in its own right instead.
www.moreawesomethanyou.com/cwykes

[Madame Mim]

Marvin's thread is the only one about making sub-hoods.  It's basically easy to do.  The hard part is making the files really clean, so you don't export junk.  The sad part is that it doesn't work with Seasons.  We can talk about it on that thread if you have questions.
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,3996.0.html

Thanks.

I don't have the Season's problem because I'm creating all my hoods in a basegame environment. It also means a lot of the information in this (and SaraMK's & the referenced threads) aren't quite relevant. I have only created replacement Neighbourhoods and template N001's so far. I start with completely empty Neighbourhoods thanks to SaraMK's empty templates. There's only a couple of NPC's that you can spawn via the letterbox and no spawn options on the Sim in the basegame environment. A lot of the NPC's are simply a question of patience to spawn - repo men are the hardest/longest to create. By creating the NPC's this way I ensure that there is no extra information, but that (of course) is going to be harder when I try attachment Neighbourhoods.

Rereading this thread and SaraMK's leads me to the conclusion that I'm just going to have to go on another learning curve when I start to create the themed ep Neighbourhoods because the cheats and spawn options have changed so much with every ep.

But, then again, the trying and the screaming at the monitor when it doesn't work is half the fun. 

[cwykes]

If you're working in base game only - making a subhood is easy.  Well it's easy the second or third time!   
The tedious part is the SimPE clean up and the annoying thing is that you can't get back from the sub-hood to the hood, so if you find a problem in testing, you have to go round the whole cycle again.

1. make your 'hood

2. Edit hood files in SimPE :
2.1  delete the grim reaper and other sims you really don't want two of
2.2  look for unknown sims and relationships to unknown sims - some are legit, some aren't - fix as necessary
2.3  delete any sims you don't want - the Pescado way
2.4  fix any special items for the sub-hood type e.g. convert one lot to SS and some to dorms
2.5  fix anything you want to fix. e.g family trees and ages of CAS made sims.

3. change the type and index number of the hood

4. renumber the files to B001, D001 or U001/2/3 depending on what kind of suburb it is to be

5. add it to a test hood and look at it in game and in SimPE.  Take lots of pics while you are testing it.

6. When it looks OK to you, ask for testers - you'll need pics for publicity.  While they are testing, do some more work on the albums and pics so you are ready to launch it properly.

Some other musings....
1. Special NPCs should generate should generate even if you didn't make them.  I've tested a basic downtown and uni, but they weren't played for long enough to check out the special stuff.  I've only made a busingess suburb for real.

2. The neighbourhood album doesn't transfer into the hood.  Maxis bug.  People have to transfer the pics and edit the album by hand. I wrote about it for Sedona - it's on the web and in the readme.

3.  I'd be happy to be of practical help if you are making a sub-hood.  I'm working with LeChapeau from TSR on a downtown.  Actually she's working and I'm consulting at the moment as I'm getting to grips with Seasons.   She sent me some files early on and we worked on them in parallel just to get the mechanisms sorted for her.  I'm going to build some things when I sort my Seasons out.  (I have 2 hoods I can't get into and 5 unachieveable LTWs plus a hack conflict)

Hope that helps...........

[Marvin Kosh]

A while back I posted a hack that gets rid of the obstructing button and lets you choose one of your new templates directly.  It only addresses business districts though.

[cwykes]

Yes Marvin Kosh - I've got it.  It would have been really useful if we could still have more than one custom suburb in our game.  Now it's only useful for people who have OFB as their highest EP and we have a workaround. I'd rather not offer people a hack in a download unless it's really essential.  Thanks for doing it though.

[Madame Mim]

I have noBluewaterButton too, and am eternally grateful for it.

Cwykes - thanks for the instant tute there *saved*. I haven't yet deleted any Sims (Pescado style or otherwise) but I have his instructions stored away somewhere. Other than that the 'skill' set required is basically the same ones I'm using to build N001's. Thankyou.

[cwykes]

You're welcome!   

other musings:
4. uni dorms clearly had to start out as residential and so did the Greek house which I didn't mention.  Not sure about the ss lot.  I think it probably started as a community lot as no-body lives there and sims visit it. I think it's important to get that right first time - I read that changelotzoning isn't totally safe.  DK if you can place all the uni items in the lots in your hood before you turn them into dorms/greek/SS etc.  I think so, but that needs testing too.  You probably need a buyable reward object hack that works on community lots to make a good SS lot.
5. DK if you need to create SS members or if the game will generate those.

[lechapeau]

Secret Society members are generated as needed, hacks from here to limit whatever characters you can are best at least for the making if Uni's (I don't really need to mention that here do I, but just in case anyone else needs to know!) and I keep them in my own game anyway but downloaders may not have them. I just advise using them as I try to be fussy about which characters get into my game!

If you're making an SS building I'd maybe put a sim about to be turned into a dormie and use the unlock all rewards cheat while they were there then set them as a townie and continue building. Mine was as if it was a rented building and not a community lot, then I did use changelotzoning to make it into my Secret Society.
This was before Pets and Seasons though..what's wrong with that cheat now and what messes up?

And cwykes for our downtown thing, if you put the Maxis Downtown or Bluewater as the first neighborhood you're not able to place it again are you? I'll can check again to be sure but I didn't think you could. I think it's as you've already chosen the default hood, whether it's the Maxis original or one of our own, then the game lets all others be a custom hood and doesn't see ours as custom anymore because we made it a default.
I did try to put the Maxis downtown in after my default testing hood and it wouldn't let me but I thought that was normal...or have I misunderstood what you're trying to do!

If I can gather the problem you're having, unless you want to email me about it, I could try to replicate it and see if that helps...you know where I am if you want me to try anyway.

[cwykes]

Seasons doesn't let you add to the number of pre-made OFB suburbs attached to a hood.  In my game, only adding SAC4 terrains was possible if the hood already had either or both Bluewater and/or Sedona.   I assume it's the same for Downtowns in NL.  Can you still add the 3 pre-made maxis Uni's to one 'hood?  It never was a good idea, but people did it.

NB Seasons added alternate SC4s files for existing 'hoods and maps - winter in Pleasantview for example.

My two hoods with no B001 load as of last night.   I re-installed Seasons yesterday and put the hoods back a few at a time deleting the NeighborhoodManager.package every time.  I reckon forcing that to recount the 'hoods and sub-hoods was what fixed it.  I've done a bug report on the unacheivable LTWs and can live with non-existant turn-ons as well as slowdance.  Non-working hacks were my fault - rtfm! I'm having a little problem with awnings and my favorite house crashes, but things are much better!   root canal today!

[syberspunk]

Seasons doesn't let you add to the number of pre-made OFB suburbs attached to a hood.  In my game, only adding SAC4 terrains was possible if the hood already had either or both Bluewater and/or Sedona.   I assume it's the same for Downtowns in NL.  Can you still add the 3 pre-made maxis Uni's to one 'hood?  It never was a good idea, but people did it.

I'm confused about all the other stuff.  I mean, I was able to add Strangetown and Veronaville as sub-hoods by following SaraMK's tutorial thingie.  So, I'm guessing you must be talking about something else.

Also, I was able to add all 3 pre-made Maxis EA Unis to my bloated Pleasantview (it has a Downtown, Bluewater Village, in addition to Strangetown and Veronaville [as business district type sub-hoods]).  Yeah.  I'm retarded like that, but when I first got Uni, I stupidly added all 3 Unis, as I wanted it to appear as if my sims had choices of actual colleges.  When I found out that was a VBT to do, I rebooted my hood and only added Sim State.  After reading through SaraMK's threads, along with having antiredundancy, and using her Clean Uni templates, I added La Fiesta Tech and Académie Le Tour.  I verified that the only additional sims that were added to my game were the ones I expected (the Maxis EA playables from those Unis).

I've done a bug report on the unacheivable LTWs and can live with non-existant turn-ons as well as slowdance.  Non-working hacks were my fault - rtfm! I'm having a little problem with awnings and my favorite house crashes, but things are much better!   root canal today!

Oh, oh, oh!  You meant that slowdance fix.  I got yer pm the other day, and I was a tad confused about it.   Hehe.  I totally forgot about that.  I think Pescado rolled that into his wfsanity hack, no?

Anyways, glad I could help!  Hope you have a speedy recovery after the root canal thing!


Ste

[cwykes]

Thanks Syberspunk - I've pm'd back about most of your post.

As I remember Sara's tutorial is very specifically about combining the 3 existing hoods and cleaning out defaults.  It works, but we're talking here about a general method of creating custom hoods that can be downloaded and installed without following tutorials.  We want them to exist in your game the way the defaults do so you always have a choice of downtowns like you always have a choice of unis.  You could do that before Pets. Now the game only sees the numbers used for the maxis sub-hoods, so you have to swap folders around and you have no choices.

I'm really keen on a mix and match to 'hood and sub-hood creation.  It makes for smaller specialised projects for creators and allows downloaders freedom to pick and mix according to their immediate wishes and EPs.  Take all the Brixham Uni lots on MTS2 - we could have a Brixham Uni sub-hood with dormies created by a designer rather than randomly generated.  You could have Sedona if you wanted desert and aliens and Lechapeau and I are working on a downtown project.

Adding 3 dedault maxis uni's to your hood is a VBT because of all the dormies, professors etc.  Best I know, it's not "a bad thing" apart from that.  With only OFB in my game, several small, clean, user-made shopping suburbs in one hood is no problem.

[syberspunk]

As I remember Sara's tutorial is very specifically about combining the 3 existing hoods and cleaning out defaults.  It works, but we're talking here about a general method of creating custom hoods that can be downloaded and installed without following tutorials.  We want them to exist in your game the way the defaults do so you always have a choice of downtowns like you always have a choice of unis.  You could do that before Pets. Now the game only sees the numbers used for the maxis sub-hoods, so you have to swap folders around and you have no choices.

Ahh... I see what you mean now.  Yeah.  It would've been wonderful in Maxis had the foresight and consideration to think of ways to add new and/or custom sub hood types in a user friendly way. 

Adding 3 dedault maxis uni's to your hood is a VBT because of all the dormies, professors etc.  Best I know, it's not "a bad thing" apart from that.  With only OFB in my game, several small, clean, user-made shopping suburbs in one hood is no problem.

Previously, it probably was a VBT.  Now... it isn't all that bad.  Not Very at least.  I was able to do it with Sara's clean templates, together with antiredundancy, and I did not have any major issues.  I was very meticulous about keeping track of the number of new character files that were generated when adding another Uni.  The game did not create another set of professors.  As far as I can tell, my game only has the same default 24 profs.  It also did not generate any new dormies.  The only time the game ever generates new dormies is if it can't find a "homeless" dormie to fill an unoccupied dorm room.  So, this would only ever happen if you went into a new dorm lot And all the current existing dormies in your 'hood are currently linked to a dorm door on the other dorm lots.  The nodormiegen hack would also help out if you want to be certain that no new dormies are generated.


Ste

[Marvin Kosh]

It would've been wonderful if Maxis had the foresight and consideration to think of ways to add new and/or custom sub hood types in a user friendly way. 

I think that in pressing their ready-made templates on us they were rather hoping we would just shrug and never consider the possibility of creating an alternative.  Adding another layer of customisation makes life more difficult for them

You can revert the behaviour of the interface to how it worked before Pets, but first you need to find the relevant bit of it in the Seasons ui.package file.  When you've modded it you can put it in Downloads like any other hack.

Unfortunately as I recall there's no way to search the XML (yes, the entire UI is defined in XML) within SimPE.  You have to extract the whole shebang to disk and wade through it.  It took a while just to find the part which pops up the Bluewater button and change it back.

[cwykes]

I've managed to make a working template just fine from an existing hood.  Sedona is the proof.   I'm working on an alternative Downtown with Lechapeau and that method is still working for us in Seasons - we checked before we started the project.

My "how to" stuff is mostly posted further up this thread.  The only thing you need to fix for the change is the hood type on the ID number tab in SimPE.  Otherwise it's just re-numbering files and cleaning up the hood character files. Unless someone figures out how to unfix the counter and let higher EPs see U004, D002, B002 etc in the default folder, you have to substitute yours for one of the exisitng ones. 

Using deletall characters isn't a good way to get rid of sims.  Preventing them being created by in the first place is better.  Other than that you should follow Pescado's tutorial and use the lotdebugger options.

[Marvin Kosh]

The game has no problem detecting a fourth or fifth university that has been added to the templates.  I'm surmising that the interface there was always intended to have more than one choice, so there isn't any upper limit.  The only reason why you don't usually see any more choices than the default one for shopping districts and downtowns is because there aren't any additional templates available.  Even with a huge button in the way you can quite easily see an additional template listed if it has been installed properly, ya just can't click on it.

[cwykes]

I'm really surprised to hear that you can still see extra uni's.   Is Seasons your highest EP?

I could see Bluewater, Aridia and Sedona with OFB as my highest EP (Aridia was the place holder so you could click on Sedona despite that stonking great Bluewater button).  When Pets came out, lots of people told me the counter was broken and their game couldn't see Aridia and Sedona any more.  What was worse, the game added sims from Sedona into Bluewater and the result was a mess. That's why I now tell people to swap the two.  We tried a test Uni and downtown with OFB and Pets; they were visible with OFB, but not Pets.  I have Seasons now and can say from personal experience that the game can only see Bluewater and not Aridia, Sedona, however it still adds files from Sedona into Bluewater when you install Bluewater into your game.

If anyone can figure out what's going on here, please tell me!  I'd be very happy to make a new version of Sedona. 

[Marvin Kosh]

Bon Voyage is my highest EP, although I would say I don't rate it as highly as Seasons.  If I take out the Bluewater button fix I can only see Bluewater in the list of business districts, I have no problems with my university templates though.  Bear in mind, these universities are basically just depopulated versions of the existing Sim State University and La Fiesta Tech.

I don't know why Bluewater would install characters from a different business district.  If this is happening somehow it should be okay to remove the template before starting the game and adding a district, and replace it after exiting the game.  The templates are after all only assets to be copied into play, and their absence won't be earth-shattering.  I also sucessfully removed the Bluewater template without adverse effects, but without an interface fix it will still show up as installable (and probably crash) unless it's already added to a hood.  With the interface fix, the only other business district I have (Sedona) goes to the top of the list when Bluewater is absent.

I'll try and figure out how to do a Downtown button remover (to revert the interface to how it was before) but it could take some time.

Edit: Apparently, some time is about twenty five minutes to actually find and edit the interface, and about double that much time to test, screeny, and document.  Downtown button fix here.

[cwykes]

Sounds like the problem is to do with the way I made Sedona then not the counter itself.  Sedona works as B003 with OFB, but doesn't work as B003 with Pets or above.  It works fine as B001 with all EPs.