Face Templates - 2008-05-08 - No Update - New Links

[jrd]

If you have the option faceBlendLimits set to on (the default), there is some normalization occuring. So in those cases altered templates may affect how a child grows up.
This is one of the reasons why Sims end up with pointed ears: the game normalizes faces to the Elf template.

I have it set to OFF.

[Ambular]

If you have the option faceBlendLimits set to on (the default), there is some normalization occuring. So in those cases altered templates may affect how a child grows up.
This is one of the reasons why Sims end up with pointed ears: the game normalizes faces to the Elf template.

I have it set to OFF.

Could you elaborate on that a bit, Jordi?  What effect would shutting it off have on CAS Sims as opposed to template-generated Sims, for example?

[terrakosmos]

I'll second your call for more templates.

< tangent > I was thinking to myself that it would be cool if people started releasing their Sims with optional template versions, and it would be awesome if they'd make these single faces usable in any of the 27 spots. It would take a bit of copy-and-paste work to make 27 templates of a face, but nothing too taxing--and then people could start plugging new faces in whatever slot they wanted to.
It would be good, however, to have some standards for face height/length, so you'd know if a face would breed well with your other Sims. Perhaps "human proportions" vs. "Maxis proportions." < /tangent >

Wow, that is a fantastic idea! I really hope people give it a try.
Nailati, you are "teh awesomeness." Keep up the good work.

[Simsbaby]

Just wondering here. Could custom templates be made that don't replace maxis ones? The Jeanette sim includes a new face, the only annoying thing is they didn't include faces for males or other ages.

[Nailati]

Just wondering here. Could custom templates be made that don't replace maxis ones? The Jeanette sim includes a new face, the only annoying thing is they didn't include faces for males or other ages.

If you mean what I think you mean: At present the only way to get a custom template is to override one of the existing Maxis ones. You have to use one of the 27 available slots (more if you consider age and gender variants). There's no known way to add more slots. It would be great, if it's possible.

New pics: here are some shots of #2 and #4, if anyone wants a closer look at them (I think there were concerns).

#2: I made this one by blending almost all of the Maxis templates together, then making some adjustments to feature height/depth. I didn't try to make it look like Maxis's #2: I tried to make it as average as possible, so I'd have something to compare the other faces against.



#4:  I've restored the original ears. Compared here to the Maxis original, so you can see the effects of raising the face.





By the way: Obviously, I'm Photoshopping these, but I did want to mention that all I'm doing is desaturating the shots and tweaking the levels (for better contrast). Otherwise, these are straight out of the game.

[jrd]

If you have the option faceBlendLimits set to on (the default), there is some normalization occuring. So in those cases altered templates may affect how a child grows up.
This is one of the reasons why Sims end up with pointed ears: the game normalizes faces to the Elf template.

I have it set to OFF.

Could you elaborate on that a bit, Jordi?  What effect would shutting it off have on CAS Sims as opposed to template-generated Sims, for example?

On CAS Sims it won't have any direct effect, as the normalization only occurs on age transition. It *will* have an effect on CAS children (which is how I first found out about it). It is most noticable on aging: age a child with the setting on and off, and (especially with parents with quite different facial structures) notice the difference.

How the game works with it set to off is basically like this: any two Sims' facial structures are compared, and a random selection of the dominant features of either parent are applied to the child (check SimPE for this, can be cheekbones, brow, etc.). The rest of the features are decided by averaging parent A and parent B. If you edit the parent Sims in SimPE and remove all dominant features they will tend to have children which look almost exactly alike, as all features are basically averaged: no dominant feature by either parent exists. Conversely, if only parent A has dominant features, all children will tend to look more like A than to their other parent.

The faceblendlimits option, when enabled, comes into effect at the averaging step. A further step is taken, and the result facial structure is compared AND NORMALIZED to the existing CAS templates. Thus, if parent A is template 1 and parent B is template 2, their child will be a mix of those two. Some features will be normalized to templates 1 and 2. The goal of this is ostensibly to prevent horrible mutants from being born with over-exaggarated cheekbones, missing chins, etc..

Where this causes problems is with the elf template. The elf template is nearly identical to one of the others (from memory, #2), and therefore the normalization may accidentally be applied to the elf template rather than #2. When this occurs, the child will get pointy ears--even if no other family member has these!
You can reproduce this in CAS. Make two parents based on the template and generate children. Some of them will have the elf ears.

HTH.

[Ambular]

How about a child Sim built in CAS but not based on parental Sim units?  Will he/she just normalize to whatever template you started with?  (And thank you for the explanation, it's very helpful!)

[jrd]

There will be some normalization occuring, so the child may get closer to the original template on each age transition. If you only made small changes to template 1 for example, a Sim may end up with a full template 1 face teenager or adult.
It is not always that noticable, but it does explain why after a few generations of breeding custom Sims with custom Sims they still end up looking like templates.

[cwieberdink]

Nailati, these are beautiful.  The lips look a little pinched on top still though (giving the goofy smile effect), but not on all of them, most on #2.

C

[Nailati]

There will be some normalization occuring, so the child may get closer to the original template on each age transition. If you only made small changes to template 1 for example, a Sim may end up with a full template 1 face teenager or adult.
It is not always that noticable, but it does explain why after a few generations of breeding custom Sims with custom Sims they still end up looking like templates.

This is fascinating. I'll have to do some breeding experiments with faceblendlimits turned off (if I ever play again ).

I never was sure what faceblendlimits did--I thought turning it off would result in children with deformed faces. Although, come to think of it, couldn't have been much worse than what I was getting.

So, have you gone through several generations of custom sims with faceblendlimits turned off? Any notable results, or are they just less template-y?

Nailati, these are beautiful.  The lips look a little pinched on top still though (giving the goofy smile effect), but not on all of them, most on #2.

Thanks. I noticed the weird upper lip on #2, as well, when I was taking the shots. I'll fix that (and keep an eye out for it in the other faces).

Rambling: I'm wondering if I haven't made a lot of the noses too long, generally. #4 is supposed to have a long nose, but I may have overdone this trait on the rest of the faces. (Easy to fix, if I have.) It's hard to tell when I'm working in Body Shop. In profile the noses often look too long (too close to the upper lip), but face-on they seem too short (causing a long upper lip), and I've learned that leaving them a bit on the long-seeming side makes them look more normal in-game. I want to be careful, though, to avoid that nasty effect in the children of Maxis sims where the nose becomes one with the upper lip (*shudder*).

[BlueSoup]

No, not too long.

* BlueSoup just wants the templates already. 

[Nailati]

Ha! Okay, I know, I'm nutty. You guys have to keep me in line when I start using my anal-retentive superpowers for evil rather than for good.

*resists temptation to straighten the fringe on the rug*

[jrd]

This is fascinating. I'll have to do some breeding experiments with faceblendlimits turned off (if I ever play again ).

I never was sure what faceblendlimits did--I thought turning it off would result in children with deformed faces. Although, come to think of it, couldn't have been much worse than what I was getting.

So, have you gone through several generations of custom sims with faceblendlimits turned off? Any notable results, or are they just less template-y?

I am in gen 9 now in my main hood (started from 2 CAS Sims), and none of my playables look much like a template. I have one branch with a dominant brow, and another with a dominant nose.

Since I don't breed ugly Sims, I probably don't need the extra protection of faceblendlimits. I guess it might come in handy with Marduk the Destroyer spawn though... but if you play that kind of Sim, you are likely not interested in realism anyway.

[ElfPuddle]

*whispers*
Don't mind me...just reading up and tired of losing of my place in the thread.

Jordi, thanks for the info.
Nailati...can't wait!

[Renatus]

I'm with everyone else when I say to just hurry up and get these done.  They look good! I'm not going to cry if they aren't absolutely totally perfectly flawless, because they're already 100% better than the Maxis templates. I suspect if there are any I can't live with, I can deal with changing one or two templates (where I ran shrieking from the thought of doing 27).

Also, thank you very much, Jordi, for that info about face blending. It explains a lot of things I was confused about and why kids in my all-custom neighborhood were losing some of the features of their parents and getting something template-y instead.

[AuKestrel]

I'm with BlueSoup and everyone else: these look amazing! I am actually remembering to check this thread once in a while, no mean feat for a woman of Very Little Brain and Even Less Memory, because I am so excited about this.

[RainbowTigress]

I'm with BlueSoup and everyone else: these look amazing! I am actually remembering to check this thread once in a while, no mean feat for a woman of Very Little Brain and Even Less Memory, because I am so excited about this.

Did you know you can use the "Show new replies to your posts" at the top of the page if you've replied to a post?  It will show you replies to all threads you've ever posted in.  I use it all the time. 

[AuKestrel]

Did you know you can use the "Show new replies to your posts" at the top of the page if you've replied to a post?  It will show you replies to all threads you've ever posted in.  I use it all the time. 

No, I didn't! Thank you! Wow, look at that, I have commented occasionally... 

[MistyBlue]

I have a question for anyone who knows what will happen...

I already use default replacements from MTS2, but plan on switching to these post haste. My question is what will happen to my sims when I do? I really can't possibly even think of not being able to continue on with sim me's adventures, but she married a townie with a replacement face and has kiddies. Would changing cause mutations to occur?

[Ambular]

I have a question for anyone who knows what will happen...

I already use default replacements from MTS2, but plan on switching to these post haste. My question is what will happen to my sims when I do? I really can't possibly even think of not being able to continue on with sim me's adventures, but she married a townie with a replacement face and has kiddies. Would changing cause mutations to occur?

Your self-Sim and her family will not change when you change the defaults, but depending on how different your current default replacements are from Naitali's, they may or may not breed well with Sims spawned in the future.  (If you're using AllenABQ's faces, which are not that radically different from Maxis', just as Naitali's aren't, I wouldn't think there'd be *too* much of a problem...)

[Keltobin]

I love these templates and have been checking up on this thread for a while now waiting for them to be done.  You really have done a great job.  All the other replacement packs are either too pretty or too much like the Maxis.

[songsmith]

These are so great. I can hardly wait to start a new neighborhood with these. But are you saying that the default townies (Goopy, Komei, Kennedy, et al) will still have their old faces?

I like how you've kept the spirit of the Maxis looks while making them more normal. Let's face it, IRL we seldom have extreme beauty or extreme ugly.  Maxis seemed to go all out for extreme ugly.

[vilia]

Goopy & co will still have their old faces so if you want to get rid of them you need to delete all characters and create new ones - check out Nec's thread here http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=4090.0

All this will do is change all future sims' faces and not any of the defaults

[jsalemi]

But are you saying that the default townies (Goopy, Komei, Kennedy, et al) will still have their old faces?

Yes, they will, but you can always use a tool like the Insiminator to do 'surgery' on them and change their face to something more appealing.

[vilia]

You just have to remember to delete the CASThumbnails first so you can see what the new faces look like