Face Templates - 2008-05-08 - No Update - New Links

[Nailati]

My only criticism is that it appears to my eye that your own preferences in regard to facial characteristics are in danger of overshadowing your obviously genuine desire to approach the job impartially. By that I mean that some of the changes from the Maxis versions are quite drastic ... perhaps more than was needed.

I was afraid that might be the case, since I probably spent too long on these. Are there any particular faces/features that stick out to you?

One of the things that's most important to me is that these faces be able to breed well (as Metalkatt mentioned). I find it ironic that combining very different faces in the Simverse creates monsters, while in real life, the more ethnically diverse a person is, the more attractive other people tend to find them. At the same time, it's important to me that the faces represent human biodiversity somewhat more accurately than the current Maxis faces do.

So I'm trying to avoid offspring with distorted faces, by keeping the position & depth of each feature within a certain range--while maintaining the relative positions & depths of the features within each face, so they still look unique. I do want to avoid making the range too narrow, or too skewed to the "caucasian"/white/Northern European (which I am, so I can't rule out the subconscious influence of growing up in a family of people with caucasian faces). It's a difficult balance, so I am certainly open to any specific pointers.

To join in on the slight ramble:

/Slight ramble .... I remember how disappointed I was with the pre-release version of BS when I discovered that Maxis had utterly ignored natural facial anatomy and, instead, opted for a dogs' breakfast assemblage of lumps of virtual putty. The clearest examples of what I mean are:

• Two cheek options - one for size and another for gaunt/plump and neither work exactly as might be reasonably anticipated
• Width adjuster for upper and lower face - operates irrationally
• Cheekbones have 3 adjusters! none of which successfully mimic the only significant variable of the real thing: width
• Absolute omission of an adjuster for the most important facial proportion: the so-called middle third dimension

I know--it makes me insane. So much of the time I spend in Body Shop is dedicated to working around this stuff. For instance: if I need to make the cheeks wider/narrower, I usually have to adjust the upper-face-width, and then start from scratch with the forehead as it's become hopelessly distorted. To make the forehead wider or narrower, I adjust the upper-face-width and then start from scratch with the eyes. (And why must the eyes and cheeks be one unit?)

By "middle third dimension," are you referring to the width of the middle third, or the depth? Both desperately need their own sliders...I spend a lot of time making faces more or less "flat" by moving noses and jaws in and out, and then correcting the distortions (especially of the mouth) that result. And then when I fix the mouth, the cheekbones will be all farked up and I'll have to mess with the eyes and AAAAAACK *sputters*
*accepts Red Bull from DrBeast and adds something strong to it*


Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.

[Ellatrue]

I think the changes for number ten may have been too extreme, because it is my impression that that was the maxis attempt at an oriental face.

You also shouldn't be afraid to leave a few of them with relatively thin lips, or weak chins- so long as it is believable.

[Renatus]

This is the only reason I come back here anymore.

Part of the problem with making a Sim that looks Asian with the Maxis controls is there is no good way to make the epicanthal fold. It's not -too- hard to give them an almond shape, but if the sim is of an ethnotype where they should have the single eyelid, that has to be faked. Since all but #7 of these are Asiatic... wow, quite the headache! For you reference, I refered to this - http://www.deviantart.com/view/32046017/ - guide when making my critique as well as remembering what my variety of friends with Asiatic roots look like. I trust the maker of that guide; she's a professional artist and has spent years researching this information.

#11 looks good - while Mayans are way too far south to count as Mexican I don't recall seeing any images of South Americans that had them look like Maxis has them. I don't think it would hurt to go ahead and push the noses and mouths back in a tiny bit, though - the Central and South American natives have very Asian ethnotype features. The guide I linked to actually does have a Amazonian face reference, as well as an Andid (from the Andes) face - while I do like this one how it is, it wouldn't hurt to blend some of the Amazonian features in to give the face a more modern (ie grab bag of ancestors  ) look.

On #10 I'd say that the chin juts too far outwards - I can't tell precisely what ethnotype that face is, but if it's what I think it is, it should not have a prominent chin. The face overall should probably be a bit flatter, with the features not so prominent, and the men not having their lips be quite so fleshy.  I do like that the eyes aren't so narrow - yes, yes, Maxis, many Asian ethnotypes don't have wide open eyes but they certainly do not liike like human masks with little slits for eyeholes. I do suggest making them less round and more almond-shaped, however - sure, the controls that change that are essentially faking it but that's as good as we're going to get with this game!

#09 is also much better - I have an Indonesian friend and your version is a hell of a lot closer to what he looks like! However, again the features are too prominent, no jutting chin, the nose should be shorter and the face rounder/more square. Again, eyes need to be not-round.

#08 looks to be a generic Asian face, so not much to say. It looks pretty good, but yeah, the eyes again. The woman's are now too small.

#07 I'm thrown off by the pale skin but it looks much more authentically, err, generic African. Haha, oh Maxis. I do think you should keep the prominence of the features, however, pushing them in gives the face a little too Caucasian look, and a little thicker lips on the women. Honestly, this is one of the templates that I didn't find stupidly insulting, even though it has it's obvious flaws (eyes so far apart they are near unto being fish eyes and general Maxis ick).

In general - the Asiatic faces should still have eyes that have that almond shape (due to the epicanthal fold that is there on real people), somewhat round faces, and non-prominent features (especially chins). Unless you want to make one of them Ainu, but that's a whole different kettle of fish of another colour.

Don't get me wrong, I think you're doing a great job.  I think you'll be able to get a lot of milage out of that ethnotype guide, probably more than out of my rattling on. 

[Nailati]

Wow--thanks for the great critique! It's flattering that people are taking the time to help me do this properly. I've learned so much throughout this process--and physical anthropology is a fascinating subject for me, as I create figure art when I'm not Simming.

I collect about a dozen reference pictures for each face before I make it, but it's harder to find concrete information about measurements and proportions. Cedarseed's guide will be a great help--I'll use it when I make revisions (which I'll do when I take my second trip through the templates, to make final adjustments).

In general--I'll work on making the eyes less round, and the features less prominent.

#10 - I have no idea what ethnotype Maxis had in mind; I wanted references, so I arbitrarity settled on Thai (well, it's got a T, and so does ESTE  ) I based the faces on some references I found on Getty Images, who were perhaps not as representative as they could have been, since they were models. If you have another idea about what ethnotype #10 is supposed to be, I can give it a shot.

#08 - I used Chinese references, simply because I wanted something to look at, and it's an ethnotype I come across often.

#07 I'm thrown off by the pale skin but it looks much more authentically, err, generic African. Haha, oh Maxis.

Yeah, "African" was just as helpful as "Asian" in narrowing things down. However, I didn't use references for this one, just tried to tame the exaggerations down. (I decided from the beginning to use the pale skin for all of the faces, because (a) it's easier to see against the backgrounds in BS and CAS, and (b) if I've done a good job, the ethnotype should be recognizable regardless of the skin color.)

By the way, anyone have any idea what CMAS (#6), CBAN (#5), ETGE (#27), or CPLA (#23) are supposed to stand for? Or, for that matter, what the C and E prefixes mean?

[vilia]

Could CBAN be Bangladesh?

[nikisazombie]

I think that these are a definate improvement over Maxis' faces.

[Renatus]

Wow--thanks for the great critique! It's flattering that people are taking the time to help me do this properly. I've learned so much throughout this process--and physical anthropology is a fascinating subject for me, as I create figure art when I'm not Simming.

You're doing a good job and it's something I want to use when it's done, so hey, why not help make it even better?

#10 - I have no idea what ethnotype Maxis had in mind; I wanted references, so I arbitrarity settled on Thai (well, it's got a T, and so does ESTE  ) I based the faces on some references I found on Getty Images, who were perhaps not as representative as they could have been, since they were models. If you have another idea about what ethnotype #10 is supposed to be, I can give it a shot.

#08 - I used Chinese references, simply because I wanted something to look at, and it's an ethnotype I come across often.

I think choosing Chinese references for #8 was wise - the default female face reminds me of the doll-like look women in traditional Chinese art are given.

#10 - Err, I wish I could remember what I was thinking yesterday because now I've completely forgotton. How embarassing...  Perhaps I was thinking of the Chinese guy in the International Relations club when I was in uni, who looked a little like the default but without the slits for eyes, I seem to remember he had somewhat prominent cheekbones. Thai is as good as any as far as I'm concerned, though.

Yeah, "African" was just as helpful as "Asian" in narrowing things down. However, I didn't use references for this one, just tried to tame the exaggerations down. (I decided from the beginning to use the pale skin for all of the faces, because (a) it's easier to see against the backgrounds in BS and CAS, and (b) if I've done a good job, the ethnotype should be recognizable regardless of the skin color.)

Yeah, I figured.

By the way, anyone have any idea what CMAS (#6), CBAN (#5), ETGE (#27), or CPLA (#23) are supposed to stand for? Or, for that matter, what the C and E prefixes mean?

Buh. No idea. C and E could mean Central and East, but why would they only have Central and East prefixes? *fires up bodyshop, waits half a billion years* ... CMAS looks to me like it may be some sort of African group, but I can't tell. CBAN might very well be Bangladesh, in which case I'm irritated as I have NEVER seen an Indian person who looks like that abomination (and it would be awesome to have an Indian template). CPLA and ETGE I have absolutely no clue. ETGE looks like some sort of Scandinavian or maybe Russian if I were to guess, but it's a wild guess. CPLA baffles me utterly - it could be a mangled Finno-Ugaric ethnotype, it could be some equally mangled Middle Eastern or Indian ethnotype. If the answer is not forthcoming relatively soon, I'd suggest you not waste time on figuring them out but decide what ethnotypes are underrepresented in the templates so far and make some of those. It's not like those templates couldn't be just about anything anyway, what with the cryptic labelling and the ham-fisted work Maxis did.

[RainbowTigress]

Wow, these look great.  Awesome job, Nailati!  I'm not sure I'd have the patience for what you are doing, and you are doing it so well.  It is truly a labor of love, as someone said.  I shall also be patiently waiting for you to finish these and upload them somewhere.

[vilia]

CBAN might very well be Bangladesh, in which case I'm irritated as I have NEVER seen an Indian person who looks like that abomination (and it would be awesome to have an Indian template).

Yep, that's why I figured it ought to be Bangladeshi 

[Renatus]

CBAN might very well be Bangladesh, in which case I'm irritated as I have NEVER seen an Indian person who looks like that abomination (and it would be awesome to have an Indian template).

Yep, that's why I figured it ought to be Bangladeshi 

Whoooops, I should have said, "CBAN might very well be Bangladesh, as vilia said, ..." but I forgot to do so.  Credit to you for that, of course.

Why do I persist on posting on message boards before morning coffee? 

[Ambular]

*Nudges*  Don't mind me, I am just sad to see this topic dropping further and further down the board.  *Hopeful for update soon!*  :)

[cwieberdink]

Amber, I almost did this yesterday too, when I was trying to make an ethic face and I had such a hard time making a sim that didn't look like a mutant.

I too am anxiously awaiting these!!!

C

[BlueSoup]

I'm ready anytime Nailati is.

[RainbowTigress]

Amber, I almost did this yesterday too, when I was trying to make an ethic face and I had such a hard time making a sim that didn't look like a mutant.

I too am anxiously awaiting these!!!

C

What is an ethic face??  Or was that supposed to be ethnic? 

(just curious)

[Nailati]

These past few weeks have been a bit of a flail for me, between moving out of my apartment (must be done by the 31st) and dealing with the FRELLING ASSHAT LANDLORDS who--oh, hell, nevermind, let's just say it involves bloated rat corpses and court dates. Anyhoo, I have been working on the remaining faces when I can, and I'll post a previewlet this weekend.  8D  <-- *crazed smile*

[dadditude]

Landlords can be a b**ch, can't they? Look on the bright side... once you get settled into your new place, create a sim of your landlord and then kill him off. Then resurrect him. Then kill him off again... lather, rinse, repeat.

[cwieberdink]

Amber, I almost did this yesterday too, when I was trying to make an ethic face and I had such a hard time making a sim that didn't look like a mutant.

I too am anxiously awaiting these!!!

C

What is an ethic face??  Or was that supposed to be ethnic? 

(just curious)

Yes, it was supposed to be an ETHNIC face.  Thanks rainbow.   

C

[RainbowTigress]

I was just checking, you never know, there could be an ethic face. 

[Ambular]

These past few weeks have been a bit of a flail for me, between moving out of my apartment (must be done by the 31st) and dealing with the FRELLING ASSHAT LANDLORDS who--oh, hell, nevermind, let's just say it involves bloated rat corpses and court dates. Anyhoo, I have been working on the remaining faces when I can, and I'll post a previewlet this weekend.  8D  <-- *crazed smile*

Ohnoes!  *Snuggles Nailati*  No worries, hon, I don't mean to pester.  Hope you get the asshats dealt with and your move sorted out as quickly and painlessly as humanly possible...

[Meadow]

These look amazing, I always wondered why Maxis made such hideous faces.

[Nailati]

As promised--a small update:

[Faces 2, 4, and 5 moved upthread --3 June]

[Ambular]

Lovely, lovely.  I don't know how you find the patience, let alone the time as busy as you are.  Thanks for updating!  :D

[BlueSoup]

* BlueSoup is bouncing off the walls waiting for this.

[Verona]

I've been watching this thread like a hawk.  Thanks for the update Nailiati. The faces look great.

[cwieberdink]

* BlueSoup is bouncing off the walls waiting for this.

*Joins Blue and bounces in the opposite direction so we criss-cross in the middle of the room.....

I am so excited for these!

c