Inheritance of Genes

[Jysudo]

I am getting a couple of kids which I have been studying them really closely. It appear that they only inherit genes from one parent/ one side of the family. E.g Son with mother's features  (he look almost 80% of mother's male version) and grandpa's eyes.
almost nothing I can find from the father's side.

Another female kid is the female version of the dad. Dad is really good looking but a female version of him looks...

Can SimPE help me to check whether the son inherit genes from both sides of family?
I suppose I could just take a look at the DNA. but how about shape of eyes, shape of nose and stuff like that?

This is getting disconcerting for me. I need an answer to this 

[maxon]

Well, the genetic features (hair, skin tone and eyes) depend on whether the features are dominant or recessive (just like in 'real' genetics - yeh right).  Anyway, if you're using CAS sims, they only have one set of genes to pass on.  So, if you have a parent with brown hair and a parent with blond, the kids will always have brown hair because brown is dominant - they inherit that gene from one parent and it wins out over the blond one (which they also inherit from their other parent).  So, the kids of that couple will always carry a dominant brown gene and a recessive blond gene and will all be brown-haired.  Sims have two slots for genes but only express the most dominant.  It's when you get into the second generation that things get interesting.  At that point, the parent sims (who were the children in the previous generation) can pass on either their dominant or their recessive gene to their children.  Depending on what their children get from their other parent, you can end up with blond kids.  The parent would have to pass on their recessive blond gene while the other parent would have to pass on a blond gene or a red one (red is most recessive IIRC).  So the blond skips a generation but can appear in the grandkids.  Sorry, if that's not an appropriate answer.  If you have a grasp of genetics, you don't really need me to explain that.  Real genetics, of course, is far more complex.

As for the face shapes: nose, chins, mouths, etc., wiith my own sims I've seen a mixture in my offspring.  As I understand it, the game blends features of both parents faces together.  No features, however, are dominant/recessive like the so-called 'genetic' features so you should see a mix as I do.  However, I have seen cases where the face of a child more closely resembles one parent than the other.

Oh, I forgot to add.  I usually look at the genetics using the Sims 2 Database programme - no reason really except that I find the layout clear and it shows what genetic material the kids inherit from each parent.  I guess you can do it with SimPE too, it's just that I like that.

[Jysudo]

Ok thanks but these are not CAS sims (for CAS sims, I know they only have one set of genes to pass on) . These are my 5th generation sims.I understand about the genetics part but not the features part. But thanks for explaining to me anyway Its always good to be reminded of how those recessive and dominant genes work

But if the game blends the features together, does it mean we cannot tell them apart at all with any program?

oh yes, I prefer to use SimPE to look at DNA simply because I don't want to install another program 

[maxon]

Ok thanks but these are not CAS sims (for CAS sims, I know they only have one set of genes to pass on) . These are my 5th generation sims.I understand about the genetics part but not the features part. But thanks for explaining to me anyway Its always good to be reminded of how those recessive and dominant genes work

The only thing I can suggest then is that you either have custom genetics in the families (always dominant unless you alter them) or have just run into a genetic bottleneck (AKA bad luck) and the parents are only passing on the one eye colour or hair colour.

But if the game blends the features together, does it mean we cannot tell them apart at all with any program?

oh yes, I prefer to use SimPE to look at DNA simply because I don't want to install another program 

Essentially yes, I would guess.  I have seen information about (what I take to be) face shapes in SimPE but working out who got what from where is going to be a major fiddle.  It's not easily extractable information like the eyes, hair and skin tones.

Regarding the Sims 2 Database, what I like about it, is that it shows the genetic inheritance with a little chart.  It shows that Grandma passed on her blue eyes, while Grandad passed on his green and then that child 1 got the blue eyes and child 2 the green and so on.  It makes the connections visible which I don't think SimPE does, although the information is there in SimPE readily enough.

[Jysudo]

I don't tink I got a genetic bottleneck but its odd. For example, there is the 5th generation sim who  inherit a lot of dominant genes from her father while her hubby is a in born sim which I got from some one else (a CAS sim, in other words).

The child inherited dad's recessive blond hair (am i right that black hair is dominant- the mom is black haired?), his lips and shape of eyes (from my close visual observation). At most, she got her mother's nose and that's only a hard guess on my part.

If I look at the hubby in bodyshop or CAS, his child will look like almost the female version of him.

[SirLance]

Regarding the Sims 2 Database, what I like about it, is that it shows the genetic inheritance with a little chart.  It shows that Grandma passed on her blue eyes, while Grandad passed on his green and then that child 1 got the blue eyes and child 2 the green and so on.  It makes the connections visible which I don't think SimPE does, although the information is there in SimPE readily enough.

This "Sims 2 Database" sounds like an interesting program. Could you provide a link so I can check it out? Thanks 

[greeneyedsims]

http://www.sims2db.com/ 

I can't live without my Database!  That is my "precious", as boatnana at N99 would say.   

--green

[Motoki]

Black and Brown are dominant, Red and Blonde are recessive. Of course you can have custom hair colors that look like these but function completely differently (which is why everyone needs to bin their damned hair unless it's purple or something).

The facial features as far as I am aware work differently. I don't think one feature is dominant over the other other than I believe the child has a slightly higher (60/40 IIRC) chance of getting the facial features of the parent of the same gender over the one of the opposite one. This is for each facial feature, not the whole face as a whole, so 60/40 on the eyes, 60/40 on the nose, 60/40 on the lips etc. The game basically does a random mishmash and puts the features together. You can see this by using the child creator tool in the CAS. The hair and eyes follow defined patterns (dominant or recessive) but the facial features are pretty random.

I guess you just had bad luck. I also know from experience some faces do not blend together very well. Basically the more different they are, the more freakish the kid will look. :O

[SirLance]

http://www.sims2db.com/ 

I can't live without my Database!  That is my "precious", as boatnana at N99 would say.   

--green

Ah thanks much! 

[dusty]

If you have the debug cheat enabled in your startup.cheat file, you can use the "simdna [first name]" cheat. That pops up a box that shows all the sim's genes and which facial characteristics are dominant.

[J. M. Pescado]

Another thing to note is that for old neighborhoods, at SOME point in the distant past, all sim genetics got munged, and sims all became homozygous for whatever they visibly had. I think there was a thread about this, and nobody ever entirely figured out why this happened, but I recently discovered it in my neighborhood via SimDNA, and had to reconstruct everyone's genetics back to genesis again by hand. Some people actually had to be changed when I discovered that with any correct sequence, the outcome they had would have been impossible.

[Motoki]

You know, I think the whole DNA thing is screwy anyhow. I just checked the DNA of a baby sim I had born into the game. She's got red hair (recessive) inherited from her mom, except the problem with that is, her mom has black hair and is a downtownie with homogenous genes for black/black. I never messed with her DNA either, so where the heck did the red come from? 

[Jysudo]

Another thing to note is that for old neighborhoods, at SOME point in the distant past, all sim genetics got munged, and sims all became homozygous for whatever they visibly had. I think there was a thread about this, and nobody ever entirely figured out why this happened, but I recently discovered it in my neighborhood via SimDNA, and had to reconstruct everyone's genetics back to genesis again by hand. Some people actually had to be changed when I discovered that with any correct sequence, the outcome they had would have been impossible.

so you mean color of hair etc? But for me, I have no problems with color of hair, color of eyes. Its the shape of the lips, the shape of the jaw etc.
Does the game mess this up in old neighbourhoods? This is a very old neighbourhood with more than 5 generations in it. I consider that as old.

Motoki, I had this happened before too. Have you checked the mom in SimPE? Maybe that will shed some light.

[Regina]

Mayhaps, Motoki, the same thing happened to your sim that happened to one of mine.  A sim married her professor.  His hair is brown, hers is blonde, and their baby has blonde hair.  I don't know enough about messing with genetics to have created that on purpose, so it seems to have been a fluke.

[Jysudo]

Mayhaps, Motoki, the same thing happened to your sim that happened to one of mine.  A sim married her professor.  His hair is brown, hers is blonde, and their baby has blonde hair.  I don't know enough about messing with genetics to have created that on purpose, so it seems to have been a fluke.

Sometimes townies have dyed hair. If you want to be really sure of their hair color, you have to check them in SIMPE.
That's the only sure way to make sure what their hair color really is.

[IgnorantBliss]

You know, I think the whole DNA thing is screwy anyhow. I just checked the DNA of a baby sim I had born into the game. She's got red hair (recessive) inherited from her mom, except the problem with that is, her mom has black hair and is a downtownie with homogenous genes for black/black. I never messed with her DNA either, so where the heck did the red come from? 

Did you check the mom's genes with SimPE? Many of the NPCs in the game have different genes from their appearance, the most famous example probably being Kaylynn who has black hair but blonde genes.

From what I know, the inheriting of facial characteristics does not depend on the gender of the child, but rather which features each parent has labelled dominant. A dominant feature has something like a 60% chance of being passed on. With each sim, the chances of a feature being labelled dominant or recessive depends on their gender, yes. So, a female sim has a higher chance of her eyes being dominant, for example. So, she has a higher chance of passing on her eye shape to her kids, either male or female.

[Regina]

Wait a minute!  LOL  No, she didn't marry a prof!  It was the policeman, Dorian Kaucher!  Since he came default in the game it's possible he was created with another hair color then 'dyed'.  I was thinking it was a prof in a neighborhood I had used DeleteAllCharacters in, but it wasn't.  At any rate, maybe that's what happened.  How do you see in SimPE what his genetics are?

[maxon]

The facial features as far as I am aware work differently. I don't think one feature is dominant over the other other than I believe the child has a slightly higher (60/40 IIRC) chance of getting the facial features of the parent of the same gender over the one of the opposite one. This is for each facial feature, not the whole face as a whole, so 60/40 on the eyes, 60/40 on the nose, 60/40 on the lips etc. The game basically does a random mishmash and puts the features together. You can see this by using the child creator tool in the CAS. The hair and eyes follow defined patterns (dominant or recessive) but the facial features are pretty random.

ooo Motoki - that sounds like a testable theory!

Cracks knuckles.

I'm glad someone posted the link to Sims2DB - I got the info about it from here.  Someone here works on the project I think.

[maxon]

You know, I think the whole DNA thing is screwy anyhow. I just checked the DNA of a baby sim I had born into the game. She's got red hair (recessive) inherited from her mom, except the problem with that is, her mom has black hair and is a downtownie with homogenous genes for black/black. I never messed with her DNA either, so where the heck did the red come from? 

Oh I had that happen with Amin Sims.  I was told some of the townies/downtownies die their hair.

[Jysudo]

From what I know, the inheriting of facial characteristics does not depend on the gender of the child, but rather which features each parent has labelled dominant. A dominant feature has something like a 60% chance of being passed on. With each sim, the chances of a feature being labelled dominant or recessive depends on their gender, yes. So, a female sim has a higher chance of her eyes being dominant, for example. So, she has a higher chance of passing on her eye shape to her kids, either male or female.

Finally I am getting the answer I need. How about the rest of the features such as jaw shape, ear, lips etc? Where did you get the above info from? Where can I find out more? Thanks!

[Motoki]

Sometimes townies have dyed hair. If you want to be really sure of their hair color, you have to check them in SIMPE.
That's the only sure way to make sure what their hair color really is.

I checked TS2Enhancer and the mom's hair is not only black, but genetically her mother and father's hair color were black too. There is no one further back in the family tree because the mom is a townie and the dad is a CAS sim.

[Motoki]

From what I know, the inheriting of facial characteristics does not depend on the gender of the child, but rather which features each parent has labelled dominant. A dominant feature has something like a 60% chance of being passed on. With each sim, the chances of a feature being labelled dominant or recessive depends on their gender, yes. So, a female sim has a higher chance of her eyes being dominant, for example. So, she has a higher chance of passing on her eye shape to her kids, either male or female.

Finally I am getting the answer I need. How about the rest of the features such as jaw shape, ear, lips etc? Where did you get the above info from? Where can I find out more? Thanks!

Even so, 60/40 is for all intents and purposes not a whole hell of a lot different than 50/50. I do remember the 60/40 ratio though. I don't recall where I read it. The Prima Guide (for the original game) maybe? I'm not sure if it's possible to alter the ratio, or change how a particular feature is marked dominant and I wouldn't even know where to look for it in SimPE.

Again, if you try using the create a baby tool in the CAS it's all pretty randomish with features. It just doesn't seem as cut and dry as the hair and eyes are. It could well be 60/40, but 60/40 is pretty close to random anyhow.

[Ancient Sim]

I noticed that quite a few of the new OFB townies had totally different genetics to what they were presenting in game (so I changed them).  Even Gilbert Jacquet is genetically blond, not black, so I changed him as well.  I really don't know why they do this, it seems to pointless.  The only reason I can think of is, as I've suggested before, so they will have stupido players who haven't even heard of SimPE, go "Ooh, I SAY, how did two black-haired parents get a red-haired child?  Townies must have grandparents after all!" or something along those lines.  In fact, I actually did read a thread like this once on the official BBS, where someone was insisting that townies had grandparents you couldn't see.

[IgnorantBliss]

Yes, the genetics of the facial characteristics are confusing. I used to be under the impression that once a certain feature, say, and eye shape, is labelled dominant, it stays dominant throughout the generations (that's what it says in the guide... ). But then I noticed that when Brandi had her third son, a male clone of herself, his listed dominant facial features differed from hers. So, apparently, the dominance of each feature is reassigned for each sim, and an eye shape that got inherited as dominant may turn recessive, and so on.

I just checked the guide on this. (Keeping in mind that the guide has inaccrurate information on some other genetics issues) it says that, when a sim is made in CAS, each region of the face is randomly labeled dominant or recessive, but the chances of a certain feature to be labeled dominant depends on the gender of the sim. A male sim has a 66% chance of his brow, nose or jaw being labeled dominant, and "only" a 50% chance with eyes and mouth. Vice versa for females (but there are more features listed in the DNA in SimPE than these five mentioned, so it's incorrect at least in that regard).

About the chances of the features being passed on, the guide says that if one parent has a dominant feature while another recessive the child has a 66% chance of inheriting the dominant one. When both are dominant or recessive, then the chances are 50/50.

But, considering how correct the guide has been on some other issues, I wouldn't count on this information.

[maxon]

I noticed that quite a few of the new OFB townies had totally different genetics to what they were presenting in game (so I changed them).  Even Gilbert Jacquet is genetically blond, not black, so I changed him as well.  I really don't know why they do this, it seems to pointless.  The only reason I can think of is, as I've suggested before, so they will have stupido players who haven't even heard of SimPE, go "Ooh, I SAY, how did two black-haired parents get a red-haired child?  Townies must have grandparents after all!" or something along those lines.  In fact, I actually did read a thread like this once on the official BBS, where someone was insisting that townies had grandparents you couldn't see.

Makes you want to run head first into a brick wall, doesn't it?  Grandparents you can't see .... mutter mutter

I just checked the guide on this. (Keeping in mind that the guide has inaccrurate information on some other genetics issues) it says that, when a sim is made in CAS, each region of the face is randomly labeled dominant or recessive, but the chances of a certain feature to be labeled dominant depends on the gender of the sim. A male sim has a 66% chance of his brow, nose or jaw being labeled dominant, and "only" a 50% chance with eyes and mouth. Vice versa for females (but there are more features listed in the DNA in SimPE than these five mentioned, so it's incorrect at least in that regard).

About the chances of the features being passed on, the guide says that if one parent has a dominant feature while another recessive the child has a 66% chance of inheriting the dominant one. When both are dominant or recessive, then the chances are 50/50.

But, considering how correct the guide has been on some other issues, I wouldn't count on this information.

Well, that kind of makes sense.  Men have more prominant brow ridges than women, and less gracile jaws (on the whole).  Maybe what it is, is that when a man passes on his distinctive jaw (dominant) to his daughter, it then becomes a recessive feature because she's a female.  I didn't know the facial features were supposed to be linked to gender and genetics.  I thought the children just got a mix.