The Entrepreneural Spirit - Building and selling businesses.

[Motoki]

It's not just a matter of restraint for me. Well okay sometimes it is,  but mostly I do okay and don't give in even if the evil voice tells me too heh.

It's just that, even if I don't ever cheat or take a shortcut and have no intention of ever doing so, to me knowing that I can, that the option is available cheapens things for me and makes my accomplishments feel less. I just don't get as much satisfaction or feeling of reward for hard work but rather I just feel like I took the hard way and purposely made things more difficult for myself when I didn't need to.

I know there are people who play and are very good with creating their own structure, stories, rules, boundaries etc, but I personally would much prefer the game lay that all out for me. I don't usually make up too many stories for my sims because it just feels like me making it up and it's not a surprise because I know the story. It's kind of like, why read a book that you wrote if you already know the ending? I'm sure some people would but I wouldn't.

I guess it's just a personality thing. *shrug* I do still enjoy the game to an extent, but I do feel like over time both from the community and from Maxis itself, the cheating shortcuts and exploits have gotten more numerous and popular and that Maxis seems to be catering to some extent to an immature BBS crowd that wants it all and they want it now. At the same time, I also do appreciate hacks and custom content that make the game more of a challenge, like some of the stuff Pescado has done (no 20khandout, expensive npcs, harder jobs etc).

[Regina]

But Motoki, if the cheat exists and you don't use it, then you should definitely NOT feel your accomplishments are less.  After all, you did it without cheating!  I don't like exploiting every 'feature' in the game.  I do like some of them but not all (for example, I've never used that one aspiration reward that lets your sims suck skills from other sims--if I'm going to cheat their skills, which normally I don't [it's already plenty easy to gain skills, especially on second-gen and further sims], I'm just plain going to use a hacked object or such).

I sort of do have a storyline that develops as my game plays, but generally speaking it's one that develops on its own, not one that I've manipulated, other than perhaps tweaking turn-ons to make another sim more desirable.   Like you, I like the surprises.  For example, I had one sim I had all set up to marry one of his professors--a pretty little red-head.  Nearly his last day at Uni he met a Dormie, one just as ugly as he was, and instantly they were head-over-heels.  It made for a much more interesting twist in the storyline.

Right now I'm wishing I could figure out how to exploit some of OFB's options, though! Ha!

[idtaminger]

My word!  I'm nearly rolling on the floor laughing here!  Haven't you who disdain all those cheats ever heard of a little restraint?  

I dunno if that was directed at me or someone above me, but I for one wasn't complaining. The employee bit is certainly a method I'd never use though, b/c I don't like the cheaty-ness of it. I don't use cheats if I feel that I won't get any fun out of them, and if I do feel as such, then I'll use them. I sort of play as 'a day in the life', and I do scenarios and the bit, and see what happens. And for me it's no less fun to play this way.

Like with filmmakers - they definitely know what they're going to film, the beginning, the end, everything in between. But for them, its no less fun being a filmmaker. Knowing what happens doesn't decrease the enjoyment for them. And that's what I like about the Sims, in fact - the power to be filmmaker instead of audience member. And if you prefer to be the audience member, perhaps a different game would be better for you? I mean, aren't there tons of games out there that set the boundaries for you?

[Motoki]

No not really. I like roleplaying games but decent ones are few and far between. Most are on consoles that come out of Japan and are trite and overly cute. I don't really care for action game much, if I did it'd be a lot easier to find games I liked.

[Ellatrue]

I don't think it is so odd- entrepreneurs do sell new businesses all the time if they can convince someone that is has a good business model or a base of customers to exploit. Isn't this sort of thing that drove the technology/internet bubble? Anyway Hook, I like the idea.

[Twain]

Why would you have to make 5 calls to hire 5 employees?

Methinks someone has been reading the Prima guide instead of playing the game. I have seen no evidence of employees adding to the sale price of the business.

Of course, if someone should post some actual numbers, I'd be very glad to read them.  See what the business sells for without employees, hire some employees and see if there's a difference.  Actual numbers from playing the game would be nice.  All my information comes from playing the game.

And as for saving yourself 20 minutes of clicking, why bother getting your Sims jobs when you can simply motherlode them to oblivion?

Hook

I went into my game, and moved the Larsons (starting with $20,001) from the Sim Bin into the Ranch Retreat house (cost of $10,857).  I purchesed the Wall Phone ($75).  This started the Larson's out with $9,069.00.  I then purchased Little N' Local Business in Bluewater, through the phone for $5,126.  I then immediatly sold back Little N' Local, at a cost of $5,126, the exact purchase price.
Then I re-purchased Little N' Local for $5,126, and called and hired 5 employees, all of varying badges and skill points.  I then called and sold back Little N' Local, at a cost of....$5,126.  Leaving me with a net change of income of.....nothing.
Apparently having employees makes no difference in the value of business.

So my twenty minutes of clicking and 3 phone calls generated me $0 extra cash.

[Trubble]

Good to know Twain

[Hook]

I wouldn't call it "true entreprenuership". And I'm betting that once you've profitably built up your business, you'd make more money than if you just kept creating and selling. You don't see Bill Gates or Mr.Buffett constantly changing businesses, after all. And they've been swimming in dough for decades.

The employees method does seem quite cheaty. Definitely sounds like a more convoluted motherlode method.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Entrepreneur

Entries found:

1. A person who organizes, operates, and assumes the risk for a business venture.
2. A risk-taker who has the skills and initiative to establish a business.
3. Someone who organizes a business venture and assumes the risk for it

"Organize" "Establish" See a pattern yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrepreneur

"...a person who undertakes and operates a new venture..."

Microsoft wasn't Bill Gates first venture.  He's now a tycoon, not an entrepreneur.

As for making more money operating a business once you're established, go for it. I even mentioned this at the end of my initial post.

For most people, this will be the first time they've ever heard of this concept.  I've been studying it since 1979.  And if making money selling a business is gamey or cheating, then why does a business even *have* a value?  The value is from the customer loyalty stars.  Relates closely to goodwill in real life terms.  Some people are good at starting things, others would prefer to buy a turnkey operation that's already established.

Until someone can prove to me that the "employee method" works, and give me numbers and exact details that I can reproduce in my game, I'm going to have to assume somene's full of it.

Hook

PS. I'm not having a go at you, idtaminger.  This is directed at everyone.  I just based it off your quoted comments.  Hope you don't mind.

[radiophonic]

Who cares, I just want your VC money. Hand it over, Hook!

[Motoki]

Hook: You just aren't going to let this go until you have the last word and prove yourself 'right' in your mind, except for the fact that I never said you were wrong per say, just that to me it felt like a cheap cheat because it was so easy and it could have been balanced a little bit better.

But okay, yeah yeah whatever, buying and selling businesses in OFB is The Entrepreneural Spirit.

There. Happy? 

[sanmonroe]

Why would you have to make 5 calls to hire 5 employees?

Methinks someone has been reading the Prima guide instead of playing the game. I have seen no evidence of employees adding to the sale price of the business.

Of course, if someone should post some actual numbers, I'd be very glad to read them.  See what the business sells for without employees, hire some employees and see if there's a difference.  Actual numbers from playing the game would be nice.  All my information comes from playing the game.

And as for saving yourself 20 minutes of clicking, why bother getting your Sims jobs when you can simply motherlode them to oblivion?

Hook

I went into my game, and moved the Larsons (starting with $20,001) from the Sim Bin into the Ranch Retreat house (cost of $10,857).  I purchesed the Wall Phone ($75).  This started the Larson's out with $9,069.00.  I then purchased Little N' Local Business in Bluewater, through the phone for $5,126.  I then immediatly sold back Little N' Local, at a cost of $5,126, the exact purchase price.
Then I re-purchased Little N' Local for $5,126, and called and hired 5 employees, all of varying badges and skill points.  I then called and sold back Little N' Local, at a cost of....$5,126.  Leaving me with a net change of income of.....nothing.
Apparently having employees makes no difference in the value of business.

So my twenty minutes of clicking and 3 phone calls generated me $0 extra cash.

Thats odd since I swear that my first furry shop raised in value by almost 20k when I added 5 employees with badges, since I updated the price immediatly after. Will have to play with it later and see.

[cabelle]

For most people, this will be the first time they've ever heard of this concept.  I've been studying it since 1979.  And if making money selling a business is gamey or cheating, then why does a business even *have* a value?  The value is from the customer loyalty stars.  Relates closely to goodwill in real life terms.  Some people are good at starting things, others would prefer to buy a turnkey operation that's already established.

Actually when I saw your initial post Hook it made me think of in RL when people "flip" houses. They buy a fixer, do some remodeling and sell it for a profit about 6 weeks or so after they've bought it. Some people actually make a good living from it.

[Ancient Sim]

I had one of my Sims buy the bookstore today.  He paid $57,500 or thereabouts for it, which entailed getting a $50,000 loan.  He went there with his fiancee and they ran it for several days without staff until it got to Level 10.  I put the deed up for sale, starting at Ridiculously Expensive (a townie actually showed interest, but lost it again).  They both had Gold Sales by then, but in the end they had to sell it at average.  The first townie to look at it bought it (very quickly) for just under $100,000, so they made a decent profit.  It's now up for sale again at $37,500, which means the game has presumably stripped it of all content (I HATE that, why don't they give us a choice?).  The townie has no memory of purchasing it and obviously doesn't hold the deed, even though the game said she was the new owner.

Anyway, it was an easy way to make money, but maybe I should have let them train up a manager so they could have raked in a bit more cash.  I still think that overall the expansion is too tedious, I think more could have been made of it really.  All the emphasis seems to be on customer loyalty rather than how much is sold, which makes no sense to me.

[J. M. Pescado]

Fneh. Buying and selling a business? Try scamming, in the form of buying and selling an empty 3x1 lot. An empty 3x1 lot can be acquired on the market for about $1400. Now jack the price up to about $50K and sell it. In less than 24 hours starting from a cold start with no sales badges, I had made over 100K in profits just peddling that piece of swampland....and that was when I was just feeling out how outrageous I could get.

[Motoki]

Cabelle: A friend of mine as work does 'flipping'. Of course, it takes her and her husband a while to find the right house that's a good value, time to fix it up etc etc. It doesn't happen overnight like in the sims though I'm sure they wish it did. 

Ancient Sim: The selling off of the items and changes we made to the shops is annoying. I wonder if Inge's things stay here shrub would also work for community lots. Also, if you sell to another playable sim supposedly everything about the business stays just as it was though I haven't tried it yet.

[shanpooter]

I really like the idea that you can buy and sell community lots and businesses.  I have a real estate office in my hood, and any sim that wants to own a community lot must buy from there.  I don't sell to townies, that does seem too much like cheating to me, since they can't own the lot and once you get your money it is back for sale again.  You could sell the same property to the same townie several times in one day.  But selling to other CAS sims that I play makes the game interesting.  I can't make the prices outrageous, because it is coming out of the pocket of another sim I play.  But my "realtors" make a pretty nice profit.  I sell empty lots and established businesses.  My sims can't just buy a lot from the computer for cheap.  They have to get it from the real estate office.

[idtaminger]

Microsoft wasn't Bill Gates first venture.  He's now a tycoon, not an entrepreneur.

Whether it was his first venture or not, it was certainly a "new" venture. And he's a tycoon now, but noone's a "tycoon" when they first start out. Starting Microsoft was pretty entrepreneurial, IMO.