"boolprop" Phobia

[akatonbo]

Ok, this has come up in another thread and I've been wondering about it anyway.

I've never been able to stomach the BBS, and the forums I've frequented don't have the real RAGING fear of using debug mode even among those who cannot tell the difference between debug mode and other cheats that happen to be boolean properties, but there's definitely a level of caution even among the more or less well-informed. My interpretation of all that up til now has been to use it only when there wasn't another safe way (i.e. with a reasonably stable mod) to do what I wanted to do, and turn it off immediately after. I don't use the inSimenator because I dislike "kitchen sink" hacks, but I have a number of hacks that can do things that I could also be using debug mode to do.

Around here, however, I also see that there are people who just plain PLAY in debug mode.

Naturally I'm a little confused. I realize a lot of the phobia comes from people doing stupid stuff, being quick to distrust all "non-supported behaviors" and being unable to tell what's safe and what's not or what's really likely to have caused a problem they are having, and other general lack of tech savvy. What I don't know is whether there's a real basis to some of it, i.e. does just having it turned on for long stretches actually cause something to happen invisibly that can cause problems later even outside of debug mode? I'm not up to the level of knowledge yet to know if that's a silly idea or not.

[Assmitten]

I've never had a problem that wasn't my own doing. I've clicked delete and gone, "Oh shit." But I also save a lot. I don't think it's that scary.

Last time I was on the official BBS, about half of them had the siggy, "91% of all teenagers have tried marijuana. Put this is your siggy if you haven't." So they seem like a little bit of a fear-mongering/gullible crowd. 

OT: 91% is high any activity, let alone an illegal drug. Man, one of these days I'm going to stop being lazy and turn off signatures over there.

[Motoki]

oH n000000000000000 b00lPr0P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111oneoeneoneone

hE1P dA b00LpR0P m3s3D uP mY gAm3!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111oneoneoneoneone

Sorry, couldn't resist. I agree that are dumb fucks and I want to slap the shit out of the whole lot of those stupid kids.

BTW someone FROM Maxis (Tom) told us all about it in the first place AND he got permission from the people he worked for to do so.

[angelyne]

I certainly would not leave the debug mode enabled while I play, since it breaks on errors instead of just continuing.  Also there is a lot of toys there that are to be used with caution.  You can't just start clicking on everything willy nilly. And I can bet lots of people have.  As you know it's meant to be a testing tool, so it's by no means foolproof.  Since there are a lot of fools out there, the fear mongering is quite justifiable.  Having worked with "users" for years, I know to keep breakables away from their clumsy fingers.  They will find a way to break it.  Sadly, people just aren't that bright it seems.

However if you enable it with a specific (tested) goal in mind, I think it's safe.  I use it to age my babies to toddler.  I turn it off right away afterward.

[ari_]

turning debug mode on won't do anything horrible if you know what you're doing. However, considering that quite a lot of people - especially at the BBS, but also many at the thesims2 LJ, for example, *don't* know what they're doing, it's better to tell them to turn it off. Hell, we're talking about people who can't find their screenshots.

(I often wish I didn't have to be nice to the people at thesims2...)

[Motoki]

Nice is overrated.

[J. M. Pescado]

I certainly would not leave the debug mode enabled while I play, since it breaks on errors instead of just continuing.

Empirical evidence has suggested that this is not entirely true: What actually happens is that in the event of an error, without debug mode on, the game automatically takes the default action, generally of resetting the offending object, often invisibly to you, unless it's a sim (whereupon you instead get jumping). Conversely, debug mode will honk at you, ask you what to do, and produce an error log.

If you encounter an error in your game with regards to a downloaded object or hack, this error log is very useful, and if you report an error without it, most of us at this point ask you to make it happen again with debug mode on.

[Motoki]

Right, that's my experience as well. All it does is prompt you to decide what to do if there's a problem instead of deciding on it's own to reset. In theory you should be able to run with it on and not get any messages or notice anything different. If you are getting those messages, there's a problem and turning debug mode off doesn't elminate the problem, you just don't get notified about it.

At times I've forgotten and left it on for quite a long time without issue. When I do get a message, I try and track down the problem. I want to know if there is a problem and if there is I try and fix it or eliminate the cause.

Also, some people will make 'dirty' hacks or objects which work, but force or cause errors to do so. I've even seen people acknowledge that if you run with debug mode on you'll get errors (to which I think, well why don't they fix that?). I generally try and get rid of such files.

[MissDoh]

The testingcheat paranoia is mainly there on the official site because when it was 1st given there was a note that if not use properly it can mess-up the game...  It is normal Maxis mention it to cover their ass, remember that there is a caution on the cup of coffee you buy at MacDonalds saying:  IT IS HOT!  

Now if you are not the type of person that must press on everything even if there is a BIG SIGN next to it saying don't do that, you are better off turning it on when needed only and turn it off after.

Having it on all the time can help when you are experiencing problems so the game will create an error log file that you can then share here so the most knowledgable one can help you fixing your game.

I used it personally mainly to give them job, change their zodiac signs, age Sims and create NPC and townies when I do a delete all characters.  I never encounter a problem.

I used to be a paranoid sheep in the past, I am not anymore.  If you are unusure about what an option is doing better ask about it 1st than learn the hard way.   Here is a link to an old but still good manual explaning what option will do what (does not include new Nightlife and OFB options, I am unsure if it includes the one coming with University ): http://groups.msn.com/TheSims2Database/yourwebpage.msnw

Moveobjects is more damagable to the game if you leave it at on than the testingcheats.

[akatonbo]

Heh, I did four years of tech support for a mom and pop ISP. There are NO LIMITS to human stupidity and/or ignorance. People with doctorate degrees will be unable to resist the temptation to screw around with their email settings. -.-

I'm more trying to feel out what is safe usage for someone with a reasonable level of tech savvy.

And yeah, people on the LJ comm get to hear a lot of "move them out of the lot and into a new one" from me because loading it in debug mode or using the Lot Debugger is obviously beyond their capabilities.

(Technically I /don't/ have to be nice to them, since I'm not a mod, but I'm trying to wean myself off the temptation to snark by ignoring the real idiots. I'm also telling myself that it's not worth writing up FAQs or anything, because they WOULDN'T READ THEM ANYWAY.)

[RainbowTigress]

I'm with you there, akatonbo.  I used to be so nice to people, tried to help them and explain things to them.  I realize now that it does no good.  People don't even appreciate it.  I'm mostly referring to the BBS.  I gave up trying to explain anything to those kids.  It's too frustrating.  I prefer to discuss things with people who are more like my peers.  I want to learn about the game.  I can't do that there.  It's like being an intermediate user of Windows and buying a Windows for Dummies book and expecting to learn something.  I go through the boards and find so much incorrect information that I wouldn't even know where to start trying to straighten them out.  Then they want to argue with you.  There are so many problems that cannot be solved without using hacks, and that's like a big NO NO on there.  I saw one user tell another, "We aren't supposed to talk about hacks here.  You'll get banned!"  Fortunately someone else straightened them out by saying, "We can talk about hacks, just not illegal cracks and adult stuff."

Anyway, I've been running my game with "boolprop" in my startup file for months now, since right after I got Uni and started learning about the cheat.  It is invaluable to allowing me to play my game the way I want to, and as the others said, I like to know when there is a problem with my game.  I have also run into modders who say, well, if you turn off boolprop, you won't have a problem.  Excuse me?!  Isn't that like saying if you put on a blindfold you won't see that your car is out of gas?  Sometimes it's hard to get an error message after something has occurred, when you don't know what caused it, then the error log is helpful because debug mode was already running.  Also, it is has been invaluable for tracing the problem on why lots won't load or crash on loading.  It allows you to reset or delete the offending object.  You may not actually want to delete the object, but at least the error log will let you know what's keeping the lot from loading.  This was the case right after NL came out and pool lights were getting corrupted on community lots.  It also helped us find out the problem with sims who had been updated to Uni status with the lot debugger who were crashing and losing their want slots when moving into a lot--they had no major set.  Without having debug mode enabled, we would have never known what the problem was.  Since I use it so much, I got tired of entering it all the time and put it in my startup folder.  I never really have a reason to turn it off now.

[sanmonroe]

I play with it on (its in my startup.cheats file) all the time.

I use it for 2 things.

1- seeing when thingsblow up so I can reset/delete them.

2- Killing any sim that pisses me off witha  palgue of flies.

[Sleepycat]

ok, I've rarely bothered turning it on, haven't had any real reason to and I don't know much about it but now I have a question 

Normally my computer kicks ass and I haven't had any real slowdown issues, even on large lots, or small lots with a ton of stuff but now I have a Lot that started getting very very slow after playing it for awhile, I removed some known things for slowing Lots down (fences etc...) but it didn't really make much of a difference.

So I then removed more stuff including some of the waterbeds by LizzieLove siince I thought maybe all the action was the cause of the slowness  - this Lot is a whorehouse and the beds were constantly being "used"

I started out with 6/7 of the beds and now I'm down to 2, I've made the house even smaller (it's now just 3 bedrooms(was 6) with a bathroom and shower room, the kitchen area is outside and sitting off in a corner) and the Lot is still really slow, almost totally unplayable

Any ideas? Could turning on the boolprop testingcheats thing help figure out the cause? I never thought to try anything with the lot debugger (which is funny since I have it sitting in a corner on the lot)

I know I can just move the whores out but then I'll have to start the business all over again and the "boss man" Kenya Sin, dosen't really want to lose all the customer loyalty and perks he has gained   

I also hate moving pregnant sims and atleast 3 *lost track* of the whores are pregnant via risky woohoo 

[Motoki]

It couldn't hurt. If you get errors then it could be a hack or object or even poorly designed Maxis 'feature' (aka a bug). If however you turn debug mode on and get no messages, it could be some high poly objects or something else entirely.

At any rate, it's certainly worth a try. I would do it if it were me.

[Scotty]

This is why I refuse to go to the BBS. Every time I went there in the past, I left wanting to smash my head against a brick wall. (Which is probably less painful BTW) I've tried being nice to those people over there, but I just got knocked in the teeth for my troubles. Maxis should have an entrance exam for anyone that wants to post in the forums. To weed out the morons. But the forums would be empty then.

As for BoolProp, I rarely even use it. Unless there is something I really need to do.

[Sandilou]

I am a Boolprop Phobic.  I am too lazy to work out how and when to use it - or even locate it.  That's why I visit here, so that those more awesome than me - and way more knowledgable than me - can keep me informed!  When Maxis revealed the Boolprop 'cheat' I can remember thinking...this sounds like "We can't work out how to fix this game so how about we give the consumer the tools and maybe they can solve it for us."    So on principle - at that time -  I didn't give it a second glance.  Also work and family commitments meant that I never had the time to even look at what it was supposed to do, as I barely had time to even play the game.  Since then, I've relied on others to do the thinking and programming for me.  It's much safer - because everyone knows that Boolprop breaks your game.  

[Sleepycat]

It couldn't hurt. If you get errors then it could be a hack or object or even poorly designed Maxis 'feature' (aka a bug). If however you turn debug mode on and get no messages, it could be some high poly objects or something else entirely.

At any rate, it's certainly worth a try. I would do it if it were me.

ok dokey     OMG! I hope it's not all the whores custom hair causing the slowdown *dosen't have a clue about how high poly they might be*

[cabelle]

I am a Boolprop Phobic.  I am too lazy to work out how and when to use it - or even locate it.  That's why I visit here, so that those more awesome than me - and way more knowledgable than me - can keep me informed!  When Maxis revealed the Boolprop 'cheat' I can remember thinking...this sounds like "We can't work out how to fix this game so how about we give the consumer the tools and maybe they can solve it for us."    So on principle - at that time -  I didn't give it a second glance.  Also work and family commitments meant that I never had the time to even look at what it was supposed to do, as I barely had time to even play the game.  Since then, I've relied on others to do the thinking and programming for me.  It's much safer - because everyone knows that Boolprop breaks your game.  

I am much the same, or at the very least a very cautious boolprop user. I read just about every thread you guys post and sometimes understand it but I don't feel knowledgeable enough to use it except under limited circumstances. I haven't even worked up the courage to do more with SimPE that some minor stuff in a throw-away neighborhood to teach myself how to use it. I don't want to do something stupid and screw up my game. I know it puts me in the position of being pointed and laughed at but I am just not smart when it comes to programming. At least I'm really good at other non-computer stuff though.

[ZiggyDoodle]

I don't leave the tool on while I play, but I do recall using it in Uni to change lot zoning and had it not been for the amazing awesomeness of the experts here, I'd be staring at my screen instead of building a business because that infamous orb was in most of my homes and the only way to get it out so the lots would load was to use boolprop.

[Motoki]

It's not really programming per say, more like troubleshooting or debugging, and of course you can cheat with it too.

At it's most basic, you can just turn it on and do nothing. If you get no error messages, your game should be fine for the most part, or at least you're not getting the dreaded too many iterations or anything like that. If you do get error messages, it will record a log and tell you the name and path of the log file. The log is really long, but you can always post it for others to look at.

My take is, I've seen posts from people who had no hacks, used no cheats and did nothing to a vanilla game and still had serious problems or had their games hosed anyhow, so I say save often and just do what you can. Sometimes cheats can fix a problem and sometimes debug can tell you if there is or narrow down what the problem is if you already know there is one.

It's not going to mess anything to just turn it on. You could probably mess things up with some of the options I suppose (like delete all sims  ) but like I said you could do nothing and wham some bug hits (like the people who got hit with the driving to their store with an ownable car bug) and you're game's messed up anyhow. Saving and backing up often is good advice no matter who you do or how you play.

[angelyne]

Very good points y'all.  I will reconsider and turn it on while I play for a while anyway, to spot any problems with objects.

I think what put me off leaving it running is once while i had debug mode on, I got an error message on one of my sims.  I had seen the warnings about not using the delete option.  But none of the other options worked.  I had to hit delete to continue.  I wasn't sure of the impact of that, so I exited without saving.  My sim was there when I loaded the game, but after that I didn't leave debug mode on for longer than I had to.

[akatonbo]

(italics mine)

Saving and backing up often is good advice no matter who you do or how you play.

I don't think that will cause bugs in your game. (Well, not unless it's a pregnancy bug, anyway.)

[Motoki]

Oh lol too funny. What was I thinking about? 

Anyway, I don't think anyone here is stupid whether you use 'boolprop' or not. At least everyone here is articulate to some degree.

[akatonbo]

Yeah. Just the fact that the average user here can construct a coherent sentence is a plus. The fact that most of the regulars are also pretty well-educated about the game is a MAJOR plus. I actually learn things here! That mostly stopped happening elsewhere a long time ago.

Sounds like I'll be investigating the actual debug features of debug mode more in the near future. (Possibly some of the cheaty ones too, but my families fall into three categories -- almost no cheats, cheats only if needed, or outrageous cheating to set up the premise but then only if needed.)

[simmiecal]

I had seen the warnings about not using the delete option.  But none of the other options worked.  I had to hit delete to continue.  I wasn't sure of the impact of that, so I exited without saving. 

*raises hand in the boolprop education class to ask a question*
I'm not clear on this one - could someone who "knows" boolprop clarify -

When a problem comes up with reset / delete - this is my understanding but I'm not sure if it's correct.

Resetting attempts to bypass the problem - "reset" the sim or object having the error
Delete will remove the problem object / sim from the lot. Deleting an object will permanently remove the object from the lot but not from your buy catalog and deleting a sim will remove them from the lot until you reload the load but does not permanently delete the sim from the game. It was also my understanding that after deleting a sim because of a problem, you should save the lot, exit it and then re-enter it.