Testers Wanted: Harder Harder Grades - Version 2.14 (Updated 9/17/2008)

[jrd]

Since I'm the one who made it, I'll answer it: I do not plan to update anything (or even check if updates are needed) before the Inteen is out of beta. Otherwise I can just keep on modifying it.
It looks like no update is needed (the relevant code has not changed in beta 1) but I won't guarantee it.

[jrd]

Update report for inTeen Pets Beta 3:

Test version of compatible versions for 2.03 with less cheering and 2.11 ("harder harder grades") are up at the inTeen forum: Other mods and the inteen Please comment there.

Ste, feel free to grab and redistribute them if you like. They're mostly your work after all =p

[jrd]

Inteenimated versions work with Beta 4 as well.

[Magicmoon]

I must be a little confused. Can someone tell me what I did wrong? I'm using harder, harder grades.

The way I understood the directions, as long as the child is doing homework they should either go up a grade or at least maintain the grade they have irregardless of their base or other stats.

The parents had a hard time while the child was a toddler, so not being able to use the smart milk they used a lot of the tot's time for training, which left little time for toddler skilling. Upon turning a child, he had 1 charisma point and 2 logic points, IIRC.

First day of school: Came home with a C- report card. His fun or hygiene (can't remember which) level was kind of low when he left for school, but all of his other stats were high and he was in plat asp. That night he is taught to study by dad.

Day 2: Returns from school with a D- report card.  Plat asp, and good stats when he left for school. He does his homework. Several pop-ups of the child complaining that even though he is a kid he knows the importance of doing his homework. (I figured that this pop-up was because of the low grade rather than because homework wasn't done. Maybe I'm wrong and the game didn't recognize that he did his homework?)

Day 3: Returns with an F report card. Social worker shows up within the hour.

I am using the Inteen version and I know that problems were to be reported there for that version, but I couldn't figure out where the thread for posting was. Besides, I think this is a problem with me not understanding something, rather than it being a bug.

I know that this mod is based on interests, skills, moods, etc. although I often forget which interests need which skills while I'm in the game. But even without proper skills, I thought that they weren't supposed to drop grades as long as they do their homework.

I've been using this mod for awhile in another hood and haven't had any kids drop levels in this particular way. The only time I had a problem was when they "lost" their homework because of problems that happened during bus unloading time.

[jrd]

Harder harder grades (2.11) requires good to high skills to even maintain a grade. Grade drops are normal here unless kids have good skills, mood, and aspiration.
Since it is too hard, I use harder grades  (2.03) myself. IIRC that version does not have random grade drops.

I maintain the Inteenimated versions here: http://box156.bluehost.com/~aestudi1/forums/inteenimater/viewtopic.php?t=271
If you got them before Jan 14, redownload. I had to fix one or two minor issues with the mod(s) + inteen.

[syberspunk]

I can't quite remember what I did now. It's been so long. Hehe. Um... I looked at an earlier post, and I think I pretty much introduced some randomness into it, that basically made it much harder.  I don't think I am using the harder, harder version myself.  The requirements are essentially the same.  In general, the "problem" is kind of getting over that initial hump/barrier when your sims first start off as students.  If their skill set is already at a disadvantage, it might be a bit tough for you in the beginning.  The complaint about the original version of harder grades was that, once you got over that hump, it was fairly too easy to maintain good grades.  Hence, the addition of some more randomness.  Apparently, I describe it as "small randomness" whatever the heck that means. Don't ask me.

Heh. I would probably have to look at the code again, which is a bit of a doozy.  Since I haven't played in a long whiles, nor have I had any children/teens lately to test it out with, I wasn't sure just how hard the harder, harder version would be.  You might have just run into a string of sadorandom rolls, causing the sim to drop or get stuck at the same level.  Do you any of the homework hacks?  I think I am still using twojeffs' update to jenflower's original hack.  I don't think I use his own version (with the new features he added).  If you don't use one, are you getting a lot of homework that your sims aren't finishing?

Ok, I am re-reading your message and...

I must be a little confused. Can someone tell me what I did wrong? I'm using harder, harder grades.

The way I understood the directions, as long as the child is doing homework they should either go up a grade or at least maintain the grade they have irregardless of their base or other stats.

The parents had a hard time while the child was a toddler, so not being able to use the smart milk they used a lot of the tot's time for training, which left little time for toddler skilling. Upon turning a child, he had 1 charisma point and 2 logic points, IIRC.

... since the sim is a child... the base skill should be determined by his interests.  If it turns out that logic and charisma are not the base skill, then those points will contribute poorly to improving their skill.  The harder, harder version probably makes it even harder to improve if you don't have many skill points.  Grades have a greater chance of dropping when there are unfinished homeworks lying around.  If that isn't the issue, then I suspect the grade dropping is due to the lack of skills.  I will try and take a peek at the hack sometime tonight, and see if what I did was unreasonable.

If you think about it tho... completing a homework and turning them in doesn't necessarily mean your sim did it correctly. Heheh. So... you could interpret it as... the dependency on the base skill representing just how well the sim did the homework.  If they have more points in their base skill, or sufficient points on average among all their skills, that could translate into good homework.  But if they are lacking in skills, maybe they are just turning in crap.

Ste

[Magicmoon]

The only homework mod I have is Monique's which calls them to do their homework at 7pm. The first day the child was taught to study, and has done his homework each day. He goes to school with plat asp.

Although I never expected this child to excel, I didn't expect his grades to drop a whole level each day since he did his homework. So maybe you did add some random dropping of grades.

I added up all his interest points. His 2 highest scores were 21 points each for body and logic. I don't know how to give a child body without either having a parent with an asp reward, or cheating. Actually I just remembered BobL-Numenor Toddler Mirror, which gives toddlers body, but I let the toddlers choose which toys to skill with so that all Sims aren't the same.

Is the hardergrades the version that only goes by logic points? Or does it also work as described with the difference between the two mods being the amount that points affect their grades? I downloaded the harder,harder grades because I didn't want logic to be the only skill that mattered, because then all Sims would have to work hard on logic at the expense of other skills, making Sims too similar to each other for my tastes.

The requirements are essentially the same.  In general, the "problem" is kind of getting over that initial hump/barrier when your Sims first start off as students.  If their skill set is already at a disadvantage, it might be a bit tough for you in the beginning.  The complaint about the original version of harder grades was that, once you got over that hump, it was fairly too easy to maintain good grades.  Hence, the addition of some more randomness. 
Ste

Perhaps you should make it where they don't randomly drop a grade during childhood as long as they did their homework, or at least make the drop a half grade instead.

Heh. I would probably have to look at the code again, which is a bit of a doozy.

I don't blame you for not wanting to dive back in. If hardergrades behaves the same and isn't the one that relies on logic only, then I'll go back to that one.

In the mean time, I updated the Inteen post-patch mods last night and now this kid pops back off the school bus every morning, so I have to track down that error. Maybe the kid is retarded and needs the "short bus" to pick him up. That would also explain his lousy grades.

(I exited without saving back when the SS worker showed up in my first post).

[syberspunk]

Ok, I took a look at the code, and the harder harder version has some minor randomness... so I think that your sim just happen to be lucky (or unlucky) to roll the odds that made them drop so much... unless you had more than 1 homework lying around.  I think more than 1 unfinished homework pretty much guarantees a grade drop.

If that wasn't the issue, then with the harder harder version:

If your sim's base skill < 100 And their grade is >= D OR
If your sim's base skill < 400 And their grade is >= C OR
If your sim's base skill < 700 And their grade is >= B

Then there is a randomness thrown in.  The sim's skills and personality contribute to this.  So... the more skills they have, the better.  Their chances of getting a better grade are boosted by mood, personality, and asp (and/or interests).  Plat mood doubles their chances.  A random number is generated and if it happens to be > the odds (as calculated based on those attributes), then there is a 20% chance that the sim will drop a grade.

So it seems to me that your particular sim just happen to have bad luck.  It probably didn't help that your sim only had 3 skill points total.

Perhaps you should make it where they don't randomly drop a grade during childhood as long as they did their homework, or at least make the drop a half grade instead.

You could always just use the 2.0 harder (just one harder) version.  That one still has the skill, personality, and mood based dependencies, without the arbitrary 20% randomness.  I just made that harder harder version because Linda had requested something to be even harder.

If you want a version that only depends on logic, then you can use the original 1.0 version.

Heh. I would probably have to look at the code again, which is a bit of a doozy.

I don't blame you for not wanting to dive back in. If hardergrades behaves the same and isn't the one that relies on logic only, then I'll go back to that one.

If it isn't clear, the 2.11 version is the harder harder version, with the randomness.  If the randomness is too much, I think I kept the 2.0 version still attached.  It uses all the other skills (not just logic) without the extra hard randomness.  The 1.0 version is the one that only uses logic.

In the mean time, I updated the Inteen post-patch mods last night and now this kid pops back off the school bus every morning, so I have to track down that error. Maybe the kid is retarded and needs the "short bus" to pick him up. That would also explain his lousy grades.

(I exited without saving back when the SS worker showed up in my first post).

I posted in your Oops... thread already.

Ste

[syberspunk]

Updated for Seasons.  It looks like code was added, possibly to handle some odd cases, but it didn't look like those changes were necessarily specific to Seasons.  So, this hack should still be compatible with anything, even up to basegame.

Ste

[jsalemi]

Confused here: so if I want the harder grades that takes into account other skills for seasons, I should just re-download 'hardergrades2.0.zip'?

[syberspunk]

Confused here: so if I want the harder grades that takes into account other skills for seasons, I should just re-download 'hardergrades2.0.zip'?

Yes.  Sorry.  I was lazy about renaming the zip file.

Both the "hardergrades 2.0" and ther "harder harder grades" were updated.  I'll re-edit the readme and the .zip files later to include the version number so maybe things will be less confusing.

Ste

[Madame Mim]

I was cruising around MTS2 this morning and came across two new homework mods. I just thought you might like to know about them

One uses a combination of aspiration and personality to determin time required to do homework http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=230191

And the other grades yesterdays homework on percentage completed and deletes it on the Sims return home from school http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=230189

I don't know if I'm going to put them in my game or not, but if I do I shall report back here on compatibility (or lack thereof).

Ignore me - I've just noticed that you're thanked for your help in the MTS2 homework thread. Sometimes I despair of me, I really do.

[jsalemi]

Ste,

Risking the scary man to tell you that this is borked in AL -- it prevents kids from walking to school.

[Magicmoon]

The latest AL Fixes shows conflict with this. Is it a matter of load order or are they not compatible?

*** POSSIBLE CONFLICT DETECTED ***
File Type: BHAV
Procedure Name: Interaction - At School
Group ID: 0x7FBE051B
Instance ID: 0x0000201A
Packages Containing This Procedure:
\downloads\Hacks\MATY\alfixes\alfixes.package
\downloads\Hacks\MATY\Syberspunk\hardergrades2.0 AL\hardergrades.package

[syberspunk]

I will have to check this out.  Thanks for reporting it.  I haven't had a chance to download Pes' DC for AL just yet, since I'm still in the process of just updating things.

I will need to look at Pes' hack.  I most likely will have to update my own hack so that it includes whatever fixes he may have added.  But I won't know for sure until I look at it.  I'll update when I can.


Ste

[whiterider]

Apologies for the necro, but I spent  a good while searching for this info before eventually deciding to poke the BHAVs and get it myself, and it seems like it'd be a Good Thing if other people don't have to do the same. Since syberspunk never posted this anywhere public, here's the list of skills and their associated interests:

Logic: Paranormal, work, school, sci-fi
Body: Crime, health, sports, travel
Creativity: Money, culture, food, fashion, toys
Charisma: Politics, environment, entertainment, weather, animals

If your sim has the same number of points in two interest groups, the first one (in order of the list) will determine his/her base skill.