Maybe dormie vulnerability isn't such a good thing

[Gus Smedstad]

I've returned to the game, and installed various mods such as No Uni Protect and Anti Food Nap.  Apparently the latter wasn't enough to prevent the consequences of the former.  My sim came back from an exhausting outing with his professor, and went to sleep.  When he woke up, he discovered the kitchen looked like this:



Makes me wish once again for a "nudge awake" interaction.

 - Gus

[julialenn]

Personally, I think that's what a dorm SHOULD look like: a bunch of exhausted students!

[jrd]

Learn to torment them: place stereos in all rooms, and have your Sim turn these on whenever the dormies are napping. They'll wake up and usually pee themselves.

[Li'l Brudder]

Well, think of it this way: would you rather have them sleeping in your dorm bed, or sleeping on the floor?

[Shivani]

I thought it was nice that I had something amusing to look at in my dorms while my sims were rampaging.

[Ambular]

Makes me wish once again for a "nudge awake" interaction.

I kind of wish there was a "put to bed" interaction so another Sim could pick up the collapsed one and put them where they belong.  XD

[Ancient Sim]

I have the cheapest beds dotted all over the dorm in my game.  Sometimes my own Sims try to use them, which is rather odd considering they have the most expensive ones in their (locked) rooms.  Since restarting Pleasantview I've had 4 or 5 dormies die, 3 of which had no one to save them.  They were all female and as I am about to start a new dorm I didn't want new dormies being created, so when my first Sim was abducted I got her to resurrect the one she new at the Secret Society lot, then the other two were resurrected.  No doubt there will be more deaths, that mod is lethal.  I've had several of the dormies become playable due to them falling for one of my Sims and I've had to remove loads of "Had an Accident" and "Passed Out" memories in SimPE, because I felt so bad about them.  Some of my dormies are actually rather nice, as I made most of them myself, and I feel bad sometimes about the game being so nasty to them.

[Sleepycat]

I took out JMs nouniprotect hack. I'd rather just let the dormies stay awake and whatever forever then have them dropping like flies 

[Gus Smedstad]

I posted the picture originally because I thought it was funny.  Now I'm beginning to wonder, were dormies ever vulnerable?  Pescado claims the invulnerability was introduced with Nightlife, but I don't recall any of my dormies ever passing out or pissing themselves when all I had was University.  Now with No Uni Protect it happens all the time.  In fact, I had a dormie piss herself while she was invisible in her room.

There's no question that there's something wrong with the dormie behavior.  Ordinary Sims don't pass out or pee themselves if left completely to themselves and there are bathrooms and beds available.  I know since I ran "I'm Surrounded By Idiots" for a couple of generations, and you become quite familiar with what Sims left to themselves will or won't do when playing that challenge.

It's probably at least partly related to stresses adult Sims don't have, like classes where you don't get bladder relief.  It's also clear that the "invisible dorm room" mode doesn't quite work right, given that a dormie pissed herself while in there.  It goes beyond that, though.  I watched a Dormie pass out, and then get woken up by a cell phone.  Instead of heading to bed, the moron headed for the nearest chair to increase her comfort.

On the positive side, Dormies now get unstuck from activities like group research which used to hold their attention forever.  As long as I don't see any of them actually die from this, I'm willing to put up with a half dozen yellow puddles to avoid that problem.

 - Gus

[Dark Trepie]

I never had any die with this hack, but I did take it out because I got tired of making my sim mop up all of the pee puddles.

He did get a few extra skill points in cleaning all because of that though.  So it wasn't all bad.

[J. M. Pescado]

I've returned to the game, and installed various mods such as No Uni Protect and Anti Food Nap.  Apparently the latter wasn't enough to prevent the consequences of the former.  My sim came back from an exhausting outing with his professor, and went to sleep.  When he woke up, he discovered the kitchen looked like this:

Anti-foodnap doesn't eliminate the foodnap, it just suppresses the behavior long enough for the dormie to actually eat enough to not starve before letting him pass out into it. Besides, that looks like a typical university to me.

There's no question that there's something wrong with the dormie behavior.  Ordinary Sims don't pass out or pee themselves if left completely to themselves and there are bathrooms and beds available.  I know since I ran "I'm Surrounded By Idiots" for a couple of generations, and you become quite familiar with what Sims left to themselves will or won't do when playing that challenge.

No, ordinary sims kill themselves also. Trust me, I've seen them do it, which is why I got sick of free will. In fact, that's WHY they need an escape lever on community lots. According to several people, such as I think Brynne, Inge, and Lythdan, leaving sims alone for an extended period of time causes pee everywhere.

It's probably at least partly related to stresses adult Sims don't have, like classes where you don't get bladder relief.  It's also clear that the "invisible dorm room" mode doesn't quite work right, given that a dormie pissed herself while in there.  It goes beyond that, though.  I watched a Dormie pass out, and then get woken up by a cell phone.  Instead of heading to bed, the moron headed for the nearest chair to increase her comfort.

Passing out on the floor drops comfort score majorly, and improves energy. The dumb creature probably felt that comfort was something important to do, and wasn't sharp enough to figure out that going to sleep would do the same thing better. This general dysfunction in prioritization tends to be what causes these issues.

I have the cheapest beds dotted all over the dorm in my game.  Sometimes my own Sims try to use them, which is rather odd considering they have the most expensive ones in their (locked) rooms.  Since restarting Pleasantview I've had 4 or 5 dormies die, 3 of which had no one to save them.  They were all female and as I am about to start a new dorm I didn't want new dormies being created, so when my first Sim was abducted I got her to resurrect the one she new at the Secret Society lot, then the other two were resurrected.  No doubt there will be more deaths, that mod is lethal.

I suppose it's possible to suppress the actual *DYING* part, so that they don't starve to death. But the passing out seems totally realistic to me. As opposed to "creepy dormie who's been playing that damned instrument non-stop for 40 days and 40 nights".

[Ancient Sim]

I wouldn't really want the dying suppressed (it breaks the monotony), but the reason why they're dying is the problem.  It's probably always been this way and I haven't noticed, but the game sends them to class at least 3 times a day, maybe more.  Quite often, they'll come back from class almost starving and as soon as they sit down to eat, they're forced to class again.  I had one dormie where this happened and he never even got to take his first bite - needless to say, he dropped dead by the portal immediately he returned.  They're also being sent to class when other bars are almost totally in the red, often 4 or 5 of them at once.  Also, some dormies find it much harder to cope with the effects of the mod than others, although what that's related to I don't know, presumably aspiration or personality or something.

[J. M. Pescado]

Well, some bars basically have no effect: Sims really suffer no real consequences for anything other than bladder, hunger, and energy, in approximately that order of importance. Those are the 3 "critical" needs that have real consequences for failure. Everything else is really unimportant and simply results in bad mood. Hygiene is probably the most prone to failure, since it will easily go to zero simply from working out, not to mention as a side effect of bladder failure.

[Gus Smedstad]

Anti-foodnap doesn't eliminate the foodnap, it just suppresses the behavior long enough for the dormie to actually eat enough to not starve before letting him pass out into it.

I understood that, it was just a dry attempt at humor.

Passing out on the floor drops comfort score majorly, and improves energy. The dumb creature probably felt that comfort was something important to do, and wasn't sharp enough to figure out that going to sleep would do the same thing better. This general dysfunction in prioritization tends to be what causes these issues.

Yeah, that was my reasoning as well.  It's just that if I were coding behavior priorities, low energy would override anything but hunger.  Comfort would be the last thing checked, since it's by far the least important.

As opposed to "creepy dormie who's been playing that damned instrument non-stop for 40 days and 40 nights".

Unfortunately instruments are damned flytraps on any lot, dorm or residential.  Initially the concept of a bunch of Sims jamming together on guitar, bass, drums, and piano seemed cool.  Once it became clear that if you owned an instrument and you invited a friend over, said friend would be stuck on the instrument until you forced them off with a social interaction, I stopped buying them.

 - Gus

[twojeffs]

I wouldn't really want the dying suppressed (it breaks the monotony), but the reason why they're dying is the problem.  It's probably always been this way and I haven't noticed, but the game sends them to class at least 3 times a day, maybe more.  Quite often, they'll come back from class almost starving and as soon as they sit down to eat, they're forced to class again.  I had one dormie where this happened and he never even got to take his first bite - needless to say, he dropped dead by the portal immediately he returned.  They're also being sent to class when other bars are almost totally in the red, often 4 or 5 of them at once.  Also, some dormies find it much harder to cope with the effects of the mod than others, although what that's related to I don't know, presumably aspiration or personality or something.

It's always been that way. The dorm controller is idiotic in the way it tries to control the dormies to make it realistic (realistic in a Maxis sort of way that is). I started a hack to fix it, but decided just to point and laugh instead. Anyway... Uni = suckage so I just power my sims through anymore if I even bother to send them and damn any dormies that get in their way.

[ThyGuy]

Uni was boring until nouni protect came to my attention. Now I can chuckle, and so can my sim (because I make them all grumpy) when they piss themselves, and collaspes from exhaustion. My real favorite for dormies is to make them all vampires and see how many remain by the time graduation comes. Usually NONE do, and I'm happy. XD

[J. M. Pescado]

Yeah, that was my reasoning as well.  It's just that if I were coding behavior priorities, low energy would override anything but hunger.  Comfort would be the last thing checked, since it's by far the least important.

Well, see, priorities with motives is a tricky thing. As a general rule, assuming all motives are in equally bad shape, the most important motive to deal with tends to be Bladder. This is closely followed by Hunger, and then Energy, in generally the approximate order of importance. Obviously, the "true" goal is to prevent total failure, as opposed to merely provide satisfaction, since on the flipside, it doesn't matter what these actually *ARE* unless they fail! Obviously, as such, you have to prioritize what the largest consequences are: If your sim runs out of bladder, he pees himself, and there's no way to undo this. He's stuck with it forever. If he runs out of hunger, he merely dies, but death is a highly reversible condition with no real consequences. Also, hunger decay is actually nonlinear: When a sim falls below -85 hunger, his hunger decay rate slows down greatly. At the lowest end of the spectrum, running out of energy merely causes him to pass out briefly, which has no really serious drawbacks unless it causes something else to fail in the process.

The other motives, in rough order of importance: Social(kids), Fun, Comfort, Hygiene, Social(not-kids) and Environment. This is roughly based on what actions will cause other actions to fail. Social for kids is important because the SS will take them away if it fails, then fun and comfort because they block interactions if not satisfied, and then finally the rest. By and large, though, these other motives are "not-critical" in the sense that failure has no lasting consequences on the sim in question.

[Regina]

Hmmm.  I try not to play Dorms very much, but when I have (with the mod) it was a lot more interesting than without it.  So far I've only had one die--I'm pretty sure he starved to death.  I didn't even realize it until all of a sudden a new Dormie was moving in and taking his room.

I've always been curious as to why Maxis didn't fix the Dormies so they would actually sleep in those rooms!  If you go into Build or Buy Mode you can see they're just standing there.  Another thing I haven't figured is why when a visitor comes to the Dorm do they head into one of the Dormie's rooms first thing!

Oh well.  If I have to send a sim to a dorm I have them do whatever it takes to be able to move into their own place by the end of their freshman year if not before.

[Grater]

To make life more *ahem* interesting for my dormies, I've taken to playing dorms without a cafeteria cook. So the dormies starve if my sims forget to feed them, kind of like pets.

Trying to keep the dormies alive actually presents a semi-interesting challenge. I call it the Dormie Asylum.

In my dormie asylums I create a "vanishing room" where all the myne doors lead into, and I also APO lock the area and force the dormies to sleep in proper rooms most the time, altough every few days they insist on going into the vanishing room so I temporaily unlock the door to the area.

[Gus Smedstad]

Also, hunger decay is actually nonlinear: When a sim falls below -85 hunger, his hunger decay rate slows down greatly.

I'd noticed this.  Pre-Uni and thus pre-Cow Plant, I created a cemetary residential lot with a tiny stone house owned by the Caretaker family, Chris Caretaker and Beatrice Caretaker, a cranky Elder couple that just loved to fight with each other.  The Caretakers would befriend all the unattractive townies, get them to visit, and then kill them.  As a hobby, Chris would paint portraits of all his victims as trophies.

What astonished me was how very difficult it was to starve a Sim to death.  They could go something like 24 hours while repeatedly waving and complaining about starving.  A pool would have been faster, but it wouldn't have fit with the cemetary appearance of the lot.  Eventually I stopped doing it because A) it was so time consuming and B) playing in such an evil fashion creeped me out.

 - Gus

[Swiftgold]

Also, hunger decay is actually nonlinear: When a sim falls below -85 hunger, his hunger decay rate slows down greatly.

I'd noticed this.  Pre-Uni and thus pre-Cow Plant, I created a cemetary residential lot with a tiny stone house owned by the Caretaker family, Chris Caretaker and Beatrice Caretaker, a cranky Elder couple that just loved to fight with each other.  The Caretakers would befriend all the unattractive townies, get them to visit, and then kill them.  As a hobby, Chris would paint portraits of all his victims as trophies.

What astonished me was how very difficult it was to starve a Sim to death.  They could go something like 24 hours while repeatedly waving and complaining about starving.  A pool would have been faster, but it wouldn't have fit with the cemetary appearance of the lot.  Eventually I stopped doing it because A) it was so time consuming and B) playing in such an evil fashion creeped me out.

 - Gus

I used to do that early on before I realized the townies were just respawning. I hollowed out a space beneath the house and move-objected them under there. I figured it was a good way to get ghosts for the Knowledge Sims since I've never had a playable Sim die where it was their fault, even with free will always on. The kids in particular took forever to go, longer than the adults. To speed it up I'd get them in the pool, then move-objects them under the house. They'd drown in the dirt, and the pool was free for MY Sims. 

[Gus Smedstad]

I just NoUniProtect kill my first dormie.  Kayce Leger came back from class and immediately died, presumably of starvation.  Now, it happens that my Sim had a history with her.  She was his first love, but she rejected his proposal of engagement despite his being at ~90 LTR, and her being "in love."  Presumably she just didn't like him as much.  Serves him right for rolling the "get engaged" want right after their first flirt.  Talk about reading too much into a nice hug.

Anyway, he then argued with her until the relationship lost both "crush" and "love."  At the time of her death, they were still Best Friends at about ~50 LTR.  Despite the relatively low score, he successfully Pleaded with Death and got her resurrected.  She really ought to WooHoo his brains out in gratitude, but I doubt she will.

 - Gus

[ElviraGoth]

That picture looks a lot like my dorms now!

I've had 4 or 5 dormies die, too.  One of my sims wanted to bring back Robi as a zombie, so I let him.  Now Robi wants to bring back Aiyanna (? not sure about the spelling) who died at the other dorm, so I figure I'll get a sim to bring her back as a zombie and the two of them can live a long and zombie life together.

BTW, Robi was my first (and so far only) zombie.

[Li'l Brudder]

JUst reading this thread makes me want to go and make some dorm people.  If I weren't so afraid of the neighborhood apocalypse from all the charachter files, I just might do that.

[Gus Smedstad]

After noticing some improvement in the problems of the Dormies when they snuck into my Sim's bed, I edited the dorm to add 5 extra rooms with beds for whoever wanted them.  Even though they were the cheapest, lowest-energy beds, the passing out problem vanished.  Clearly the dorm controller doesn't work very well.  The problem now is that most of them are running around in their underwear, since they slept in one of the beds instead of their room, and they don't bother to get dressed when they wake up.

Of the choices of getting stock (with Dormie invulnerability), passing out constantly (without the extra bedrooms), and underwear, I'll take the underwear.  Still, it reminds me that it would be nice if Sims would get dressed on getting out of bed without being prompted.

 - Gus