OFB for Builders

[jack_d_spratt]

Sims would walk up the internal stairs, and end up at the top of the ones in the garden.

Now there's a nasty problem.  You probably can't delete some of those steps, either.  If you figure out what caused that, or how to fix it, give a shout.  I haven't been stumped by much in the way of building, but this is one.  And there be a lot of other people interested (I know MikeInside has a house inflicted with this).

[Paperbladder]

Maybe it will function like a split-level, I don't know.  I guess I'll be waiting at least 6-8 weeks to get the game, or waiting until it gets to $20 to find out if it is.  I'll be happy if you can actually make a true split-level with the thing, but with the screenshots they have shown it doesn't seem likely.

Well, I've never actually heard of a case where clothing actually exploded the game but I bet it does cause other problems if you have too much.  Sure, I'd also like to turn off the less desirable Maxian clothing but that doesn't seem likely.

I'm not particularly aiming my statement about the game looking worse at people that already know this, it's more aimed at the people that say "Wow, OFB will really improve the look of my game!"

[tunaisafish]

Yes jack, it sounds the same.

I would try to delete one set of stairs, and another set would be sold.
Then trying to continually delete the same set, would add  '1200' to the funds each time.

I did have partial success by deleting all mention of modular stairs in the lotfile using SimPE.
But I had some off-lot stairs appear over the other side of the road.

Any pointers to a thread where this problem is being (has been) discussed?

[Pegasys]

What really drives me crazy with the walls is how it's like, here's a wall, here's a wall with a thing at the bottom, here's another color of thing, here's that same wall with a thing at the top, and another color of thing, here's that wall again with a thing at the bottom AND the top, and another color of those things as well. I'm like, jesus, the only one I use is the one with the thing at the bottom AND at the top, so why do I even have the rest of them?

Actually although it seems redundant, it's useful to have those variances, if, for example, you have rooms that are two-storys high- you want the baseboard on the bottom one and the crown molding at only the top. Or, if you have used some combination of boolprop constrainfloorelevationin your building so you have these funny bits of wall and you don't want baseboard or crown molding on the in-between walls.

[Sagana]

Add 'testing' and 'providing feedback' to that list too Smiley
'Brainstorming', as well - how many hack ideas have been inspired from MATY threads alone.

<group hug>

Yeah, those too. <joins hug>

You can't recolour the wooden bit at the top which is proabably what you were *thinking* when you typed that

Oops, yeah, thanks :)

Am I missing something - Are there going to be prebuilt spiral staircases ?

I think (but am not sure) the hope is the Maxis split level too will allow us to build spiral stairs similar to the halfwall cheats, by building up different levels. But I haven't experienced the problem you're discussing and if Maxis doesn't know about it, their tool might very well have the same problem. pfui. This is why I don't get my hopes up ;)

[jack_d_spratt]

Any pointers to a thread where this problem is being (has been) discussed?

I don't know of any left, I did some searching and if there is anything it's deep in the archives somewhere (I was pointed to MikeInside's site from MTS2).  This has been an issue since before I bought TS2, and I wasn't too slow getting it.  Mike said that this happened to him before the cFE cheat was known.  Mike was kind enough to let me download one monster house of his where this happened.  I tore that house down in various size sections and rebuilt it.  I rebuilt sections of it on another lot. I could never get rid of it on his lot, and I could never replicate it on another lot.  Like everyone before me, I gave it up. 

I'll pass along the sum total of my knowledge.  The practical limit on stairways is your computer horsepower.  I had well over 1000 modular stairway sections on a lot (various heights from minimum to 4 story climbs) and that Sim just barely moved on 3x speed.  They could properly negotiate all stairs (albeit very slowly), and all stair behaved normally.  This does, however, seem to be limited to modular stairways.  On Mike's house there were places (next to some messed up stairs) that modular stairways could not be installed but object stairs could, and the object stairs worked fine.  My original suspicion was that the game was confused as to which level was where (it does that on other things when you get to bending a lot of stuff around), but I releveled all levels in the problem areas without any change.  I tore down as much of the house as I could (obviously the problem stairs and their landings remained) and releveled a mostly empty lot and got no change.  This problem has occurred to several people, and I suppose that means on various hardware configurations.  In summary, I know that this is limited to modular stairways, is not a result of too many stairways, does not appear to be connected to leveling issues, and is not related to hardware.  What causes it is beyond me, however.

Shame too, that was a magnificent house Mike built.

[maxon]

Any pointers to a thread where this problem is being (has been) discussed?

I'll pass along the sum total of my knowledge.  The practical limit on stairways is your computer horsepower.  I had well over 1000 modular stairway sections on a lot (various heights from minimum to 4 story climbs) and that Sim just barely moved on 3x speed.  They could properly negotiate all stairs (albeit very slowly), and all stair behaved normally.  This does, however, seem to be limited to modular stairways.  On Mike's house there were places (next to some messed up stairs) that modular stairways could not be installed but object stairs could, and the object stairs worked fine.  My original suspicion was that the game was confused as to which level was where (it does that on other things when you get to bending a lot of stuff around), but I releveled all levels in the problem areas without any change.  I tore down as much of the house as I could (obviously the problem stairs and their landings remained) and releveled a mostly empty lot and got no change.  This problem has occurred to several people, and I suppose that means on various hardware configurations.  In summary, I know that this is limited to modular stairways, is not a result of too many stairways, does not appear to be connected to leveling issues, and is not related to hardware.  What causes it is beyond me, however.

Shame too, that was a magnificent house Mike built.

Oh that makes sense - it would explain why my big dorm with modular stairs is a bit jerky when similar sized lots and families aren't.  Well, that and the idiot dormies fall asleep on the half landings.  I'm going to have to uninstall Pescado's no dormie invulnerability hack aren't I?  Dammit.  I'm afraid I have a penchant for modular stairs too.

I still think that what Maxis has done with this is made the foundations work up to a wall and we won't be able to build one on top of another to get modular stairs.  I am willing to take bets on this now and when I am proved right I will come here and post this --->  <<<<smug glow>>>>

Can you get a smiley for that?

[jack_d_spratt]

Oh that makes sense - it would explain why my big dorm with modular stairs is a bit jerky when similar sized lots and families aren't ...  Dammit.  I'm afraid I have a penchant for modular stairs too.

The slowdown issue is separate from the problem tunaisafish described.  Object stairways may experience a similar slowdown for all I know.  And it took a whole bunch of modular stairway sections (about 500) before I started noticing any lag. That's 125 sets of steps between a first and second floor.  125 objects stairs may be as bad.

So, don't blame the modular stairs; they'll add to the lag, but they'd only be a small part of the problem on a large lot.

[tunaisafish]

Has it been known for this stairs problem to happen to a house before you move in any sims?
I'm just trying to cut down the number of things that may be causing this.
I'm hoping that it can happen.  As then we can rule out interference from a lot of the other buggy objects 'like bookcases' that sometimes screw up unrelated stuff when they are in use.  There's more chance then of finding a buggy bit of code to fix.

Another thing that it would be worth checking to see if this is a common feature.  Did the landing at the top of one stair intersect with the bottom landing of another set?  I recall that my house went bad after replacing a staircase like this with a straight modular stair - And that was the centre of
the house where the teleporting happened.  (That house died with the harddisk it was on)

I can think of some things to try to fix this problem if it has already happened, but you'd need to move some sims into the house to use them.
JMP's invisible object remover.  Or perhaps a new modular stairs zapper function on a debugging object.
It may be necessary to find the cause before using these sort of hacks though as it could call the same functions that are buggy.

I found an old locked thread on MTS2 in the building section about this problem so I'll probably reread that again to see if the my Q's can already be answered.  Oh, one more thing I remember that was also discussed there was not being able to attach a banister to the buggy stairs.  That's something I remember happening on mine, but only on one side.  Perhaps a clue to which end the problem lay.

Someone in that thread said they reported the problem to Maxis.  So if it was some buggy code that caused this in the first place, we need to make sure this problem still happens with later EPs before some poor modder peers into the spaghetti code on a wild goose chase.

[jack_d_spratt]

Has it been known for this stairs problem to happen to a house before you move in any sims?

I don't know.  I've never had this problem personally. But I suspect it exists before the Sims ever get there, it just gets real noticable then.  And I'm pretty sure buggy objects aren't involved, because I stripped that house of Mike's.  I also worked a lot on it with no Sim in it.

Another thing that it would be worth checking to see if this is a common feature.  Did the landing at the top of one stair intersect with the bottom landing of another set?  I recall that my house went bad after replacing a staircase like this with a straight modular stair - And that was the centre of the house where the teleporting happened. 

There were a variety of problems on a variety of staircases in his house.  But I don't recall any landings serving 2 stairs being involved, only straight up and down stairs (there were 'spiral' stairs, but I don't remember them being affected).  But you've already reported it happened on yours. 

The delete thing is interesting, Mike's house is a mass of stairways (kind of like "stairways as art"), and there was likely a lot of stairway adds and deletes going on during build.  I know I've deleted stairways in multiple stairway homes, and I've never had a problem; but I wouldn't rule anything out.

Just for interest, some of the problems (and some of these manifested themselves on modular stairs that I added to the house)
- Inability to delete, but money added back (as you mentioned)
- Inability to even select to delete
- Select one set for delete, a different set actually gets deleted (but rebuilds normally, go figure)
- Sims won't use steps at all
- Sims "teleport" at the top of steps (And on some, but not all, if you told the Sims to go to the top of one set of steps, they'd take off for a completely different set and teleport to where you told them to go originally.  Go figure.)

Someone in that thread said they reported the problem to Maxis.  So if it was some buggy code that caused this in the first place, we need to make sure this problem still happens with later EPs before some poor modder peers into the spaghetti code on a wild goose chase.

Well, I can dive back into that house tonight.  I'm loathe to, it's weird working with it; Twilight Zone stuff.  But I'm pretty sure if you're still having the problem...

[tunaisafish]

Well, I can dive back into that house tonight.  I'm loathe to, it's weird working with it; Twilight Zone stuff.  But I'm pretty sure if you're still having the problem...

No, what I mean is that has a bad house been made with the new EPs.
I suspect that once a lot is bad, it doesn't matter which version you use to view it.  The internal data of the stairs is corrupt.
If you do want to mess with that old house, then try using the the 'stuck objects remover' from the Firing Range.
If that works, problem solved.
I don't think anybody will be keen on making a new hack just now when we know OFB will be turning all that code upside down again.

The one I made was with the original TS2.  I've not seen any of my newly created houses have the bugs since then, but that may be because the whole issue has tamed my extravagant buiding tendencies.  The bad lot was on a harddisk that died, so I can't test the SOR on that one.

[jack_d_spratt]

Well dip me in sh**.  That Stuck Object Remover deletes the undeletable stairs.

There were some remaining problems, I described them over at MikeInside's site,  but since no one here seems to have an immediate issue I won't bother typing it all out here.

But kudos to Pescado for writing that thing, and to tunaisafish for the suggestion of using it on this problem.

[flowerchile]

Well dip me in sh**.  That Stuck Object Remover deletes the undeletable stairs.

There is such a thing as undeletable stairs?   Where would you like your sh** delivered. LOL

[Regina]

Oh my!  If I wasn't feeling so rummy I'd be rolling on the floor in hysteria after reading all this!  I was headed to bed a half-hour ago, then decided to check out this thread. 

Technically speaking, that is split-level.  However, most of us (in the US at least) have probably been in quite a few split-level homes as someone described above, where the entryway in the front of the house has two half stairways, one going up and the other going down into the basement.  I'd love it if we could build a true split-level home in TS2!

That outfit at the above link is just laughable!  It looks like something my girls would get into when they were playing dress-up as small children!

I agree that a lot of the outfits in the game don't look that great (think Meadow Thayer), but also agree the meshes can sometimes be textured to look absolutely awesome (if you don't believe me, check out some of the clothes available at Mermaid Cove that are made for in-game meshes).  Thankfully, the mesh in that picture looks like it has potential--that is if you could get rid of the stupid-looking tank-top from underneath the spaghetti straps.  I'm thinking possibly more sleeves and better colors and it would make a terrific evening outfit.

At any rate, I took a look at all the screenshots and I can now honestly say I have something about which to be excited about OFB!  My daughter's going to croak when she sees those new roofs--those're just awesome!  And split-level or not, we should now be able to build a proper sunken living room, which is something I'd love to be able to do.

[RainbowTigress]

A house where the entry way is split with stairs going up and stairs going down is called a split foyer.  A split level is a house where the levels split within the house, so you actually have three different levels.  I've heard this referred to as a "tri-level" as well.  The house I recently moved from was a split foyer, with 5-6 steps leading up to the front door, then a small entry way where you either had to go upstairs or downstairs.  The house I am living in now with my grandma is considered a split level, with only one step up to the front porch, then a main living area.  There are 5-6 steps going up to the bedrooms and bathrooms, and a longer staircase going to the basement, laundry room, and garage.  The driveway is rather steep and goes downhill so that the garage is on level with the ground at the bottom.

Here is some more information about split level homes if you're interested in the encyclopedia at the free dictionary site:  http://encyclopedia.tfd.com/Split+level+home

[jack_d_spratt]

There is such a thing as undeletable stairs?

Yep, not very common, but they pretty much kill a lot.  It's not the undeletable part, it's the things that go along with it.

Although, if you had Sims you hated, and if you could make this occur on purpose, you could move them into the Twilight Zone and make their life hell...

[eamethyst]

Actually, I lived in a split level for twenty years when I was growing up.  Walk in the door and go up or down.  At least in the area of the US where I live, that is a split level.  I've never heard the term split-foyer before.

[simmiecal]

Actually, I lived in a split level for twenty years when I was growing up.  Walk in the door and go up or down.  At least in the area of the US where I live, that is a split level.  I've never heard the term split-foyer before.

And in the US - when you first walk in the door, you're on the first floor. In the UK, Australia and India (not sure about the Kiwis or Canucks) you have to go up a flight of stairs to be on the first floor since they enter on the ground floor. Just a bit of useless trivia...

[myskaal]

Just to make a pointless point about the sandals, good ol Leo Alloto gave me a walkby last night to help out...




Dress shoes. 

[RainbowTigress]

Actually, I lived in a split level for twenty years when I was growing up.  Walk in the door and go up or down.  At least in the area of the US where I live, that is a split level.  I've never heard the term split-foyer before.

I don't know what area of the US you live in, but I live in the southeast, and the term is very common.  The entryway is called the foyer, and it is split going up and down.  I think a differentiation needs to be made between houses that split immediately upon entering the house and houses that split inside the house, which giving a livable area on the level in between.