Need lesson in CPU

[myskaal]

Wow am I glad this thread popped up. I'm getting ready to buy a new system myself.
This one to be exact

Alienware Area51 5500
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 650 w/ HT Technology 3.4GHz 800MHz FSB 2MB
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition with Service Pack 2
1-Year AlienCare Toll-Free 24/7 Phone Support w/ Onsite Service
Alienware® Full-Tower Chassis   Conspiracy Blue 
Alienware® AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling   Astral Blue
Alienware® nForce™4 SLI™ Intel Edition Chipset Motherboard PCI Express SLI
256MB PCI-Express x16 NVIDIA® GeForce™ 7800 GT
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz - 2 x 512MB
High Performance   80GB Serial ATA 7,200 RPM w/8MB Cache 
16x DVD-ROM Drive with Software DVD Decoder
52x32x52x CD-RW Drive
Creative Sound Blaster® Audigy® 2 ZS High Definition 7.1 Surround Firewire
3.5" 1.44 MB Floppy Disk Drive - Black
Alienware® Respawn Recovery Kit
No Monitor
No Keyboard
No Mouse

Total: $1,889.00

-------------

So now I have some curiousities. I went with the Area51 Pentium instead of the Aurora AMD Athlon because of the processor speed comparisons:

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 650 w/ HT Technology 3.4GHz 800MHz FSB 2MB
Processor Speed 3.4 GHz
System Bus Speed 800 MHz
Level 2 Cache 2 MB

compared to

AMD Athlon™ 64 3500+ with HyperTransport Technology
Frequency 2.2 GHz
Bus Frequency 2000 MHz
Level 1 Cache 128 KB
Level 2 Cache 512 KB Advanced Transfer
 
or

AMD Athlon™ 64 FX-55 with HyperTransport Technology
Frequency 2.6 GHz 
Bus Frequency 2000 MHz 
Level 1 Cache 128 KB
Level 2 Cache 1 MB Advanced Transfer


So since most here seem to prefer the Athlon... does that mean it's the Bus Frequency that actually makes the difference in performance?
I'm not really up on my comp knowledge here either but I would like to get the best I can for my money, and the Aurora w/ AMD is not much more than the Area51 w/ Pentium4 when configured with the other things I would want on it.

[Sleepycat]

specs for my  Alienware baby (bought last June)

Aurora 5500
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 2
Chassis: Alienware Full-Tower Case - Space Black
Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling 510 Deluxe Upgrade
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 4000+ Processor with HyperTransport Technology
Motherboard: ABIT AV8 - VIA K8T800 Pro Motherboard
Memory: 2GB Alienware Dual Channel Low-Latency DDR PC-3200 at 333MHz - 4 x 512MB
Graphics Processor: ATI RADEON X800 PRO 256MB DDR3 w/Digital and TV Out
Chassis Upgrades: AlienIce 2.0 Video Cooling System with Acoustic Dampening - Terra Green
System Drive: High Performance - Serial ATA - 160GB Serial ATA 7,200 RPM w/8MB Cache
Optical Drive One: NEC ND-3520 16x Dual Layer DVD±R/W Drive
Optical Drive Two: NEC ND-3520 16x Dual Layer DVD±R/W Drive
Floppy Drive: 3.5" 1.44 MB Floppy Disk Drive - Black
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS High Definition 7.1 Surround Firewire (IEEE 1394)
Network Connection: Integrated High Performance Gigabit Ethernet
Modem: US Robotics 56K V.92 Performance Pro
Display One: Alienware 20.1" LCD Display
Speakers: Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 2.0 Speakers

went with a basic mouse and keyboard at the time because the cost of my baby was already close to going over what I had set aside to spend, figured I'd buy better when I got around to it/had the money (my new gaming mouse and keyboard just came in this afternoon  my brother bought them for me as a late x-mas gift)

heh, being disabled has it's good points, I rarely go anywhere so my needs and wants are few so when I had back SSI money to spend - I could blow it on a kick ass computer and be happy *laughs* I did buy another (cheaper) computer with my first back check but couldn't stand sharing it with my daughter so now she gets to use that one and I get this one.

[Aldebaran]

A GeForce 6600GT AGP is all you need! An 128MB model costs about $140-$150, a 256MB model is about $50 extra. I'd go for 256MB!

Sorry for butting in, but I really don't recomment the 256mb version in a GeForce 6600GT, because the memory on it version is slower than on the 128mb version. A 128mb card is enough for the Sims2, it relies more on the CPU than any other game I know

I've been thinking about the 6600GT, too.  This is the first I've heard about the 256MB being slower. 

You think 128MB is enough for Sims 2?  Most people I've seen say 256MB is worth it, but don't go any higher that that.

Not the card itself, but the memory on it. It may have more, but slower, and the idea is for a game to run faster, so it's generally not recommended.

Actually much depends on the overall performance of the computer. A 128mb card is sufficient most of the time if paired with a fast CPU and fast memory. For example, I can have a 128mb graphics card, but if I have 256mb slower memory and a 1gb or so CPU, then it won't really do much. And there isn't much higher than a 256mb card, only if you want really high-end (both in performance and price) cards   And Sims2 is more of a strain on the bare strenght of the CPU than the videocard itself.

So since most here seem to prefer the Athlon... does that mean it's the Bus Frequency that actually makes the difference in performance?
I'm not really up on my comp knowledge here either but I would like to get the best I can for my money, and the Aurora w/ AMD is not much more than the Area51 w/ Pentium4 when configured with the other things I would want on it.

Front Side Bus frequency means basically how fast will be the data transfer between the CPU and the memory. The bigger, the faster computer. 2000Mhz seems huge, maybe someone can confirm what this HyperTransport means to you (I'm don't really now much about AMDs, I'm more for the Intel). If it really runs on 2000Mhz, then it may be worthwhile to consider the trade of FSB for the raw CPU strenght.

[gjam]

Wow am I glad this thread popped up. I'm getting ready to buy a new system myself.
...
So since most here seem to prefer the Athlon... does that mean it's the Bus Frequency that actually makes the difference in performance?
I'm not really up on my comp knowledge here either but I would like to get the best I can for my money, and the Aurora w/ AMD is not much more than the Area51 w/ Pentium4 when configured with the other things I would want on it.

I've always heard the model number of the Athlon tells its effective speed.  So an Athlon 64 3500+ is comparable to a 3.5 GHz P4.  (3500=3.5)Looks like their newest stuff is getting away from that numbering scheme, though.  I'm not sure how to compare the FX-55.

[Ambular]

Just wanted to note that adding more than 1 GB of memory may not improve your performance if the only thing you're going to be running at any given time is The Sims 2, but if you tend to have other programs open at the same time, it may make a BIG difference.  I frequently wind up with Firefox, AOL, ZoneAlarm, Photoshop and the Sims 2 running all at the same time, occasionally with iTunes thrown in if I'm feeling reckless, and I was literally running out of memory before I boosted my system to 1.5 GB.  Even now I sometimes see slowdowns if I have a lot of things running at once.

Then again, all I've got is an overclocked Athlon 2800 1.8 GHz and a GeForce FX 5200 (128 MB,) so this might not hold true for bigger, snazzier systems.

[myskaal]

Angelynne... /drool

So what I think I get from all this is an AMD Athlon™ 64 3500+ with HyperTransport Technology would be faster than Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 650 w/ HT Technology 3.4GHz because 3500 basically = 3.5Ghz and would be better because of the longer life expectancy and better customer support and service.

I just went through and configured the Aurora 500. It ends up actually being $48 less than the Area 51. 

[Regina]

Instead of using 3.0 ghz, AMD refers to it as "3000"
3.2 ghz = 3200. Snazzy, huh?

In reality, that's not quite accurate.  I've done a lot of looking into this trying to find the differences between AMD and Intel chips and this is what I've been told by several computer guys and read on the internet.

I'll use my processor as an example because I remember more accurately the specs:  it's an AMD 2400+.  That doesn't mean it's actually a 2.4-gig processor.  What it means is that it's roughly a 1.8-gig processor, but because AMDs are AMDs, it's supposed to perform as well as an Intel 2.4-gig processor.

I didn't bookmark it, but somewhere on the web is a comparison of the speeds at which AMDs and Intels meet.  I also read a few weeks back that the newer Intel processors are catching up with AMD speed-wise.

As for video cards, I've used both ATI and GeForce cards and I think both are great.

I think a really good resource for info on power supply cases is Newegg's site.  If you read the reviews on the various cases w/power supplies you can easily see how many people pull out and replace which wattage with higher-watt supplies.  If you're into serious gaming I'd really recommend nothing less than 400 watts.

Also, in a thread I had going a while back on PC info, Pescado said that if your computer doesn't sound like an airplane getting ready to take off, you simply don't have enough cooling fans in it and need more.    I don't know about anyone else, but normally my PC doesn't have problems with over-heating.  But just let me start doing heavy-duty file managing on it for a few hours and Windows Explorer starts locking up like crazy.  The only thing I can figure that's causing that is over-heating because otherwise this computer fairly well, even if it is a bit slow for a couple of my games.

[DrBeast]

A GeForce 6600GT AGP is all you need! An 128MB model costs about $140-$150, a 256MB model is about $50 extra. I'd go for 256MB!

Sorry for butting in, but I really don't recomment the 256mb version in a GeForce 6600GT, because the memory on it version is slower than on the 128mb version. A 128mb card is enough for the Sims2, it relies more on the CPU than any other game I know

You're right about that, to a point. These "slower" 256MB cards use DDR2 memory instead of GDDR3 utilized in the 128MB version, but I've seen GDDR3 versions of 256MB as well. Not that sure if they have any here in Greece, but in the States you'll sure find some. Check out www.newegg.com. That's the site I used when I was piling up the specs in my first post, and they do have 6600GT 256MB GDDR3 cards. Here's the link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+70000652+70000748+70003248&Subcategory=48&description=&srchInDesc=&minPrice=&maxPrice=

Regarding other topics discussed:
RAM upgrading: I sure saw a difference when I added another 512MB module to accompany my single 512 I used up till then. Load times decreased, game felt less laggier...but there was still lag when too many sims were around (large parties, community lots).
CPU: My P4 Northwood has been overclocked to 2.7GHz from its original 2.4GHz since I first laid my hands on it. Never reset it to its original speed to see if it goes slower. Northwoods were probably the last GREAT Intels released. Only during summer when the room temperature is close to 30 C does it reach 48 C under full load. As for the Intel-AMD debate, AMD run at much lower frequencies than Intel's "mini-barbeques" but still perform better. Lower frequencies=less stress=longevity. Hear that, Intel?
Graphics card: shortly before pulling the plug on TS2 (haven't played for months) I replaced my Radeon 9200 256MB with a Radeon 9600 Pro 256MB. I overclocked it (went from 400 MHz core to 470 and 200 MHz memory to 235) and played the game for a while. More eye-candy, smoother performance. I'm pleased! And being a (quite old) Radeon I have no overheating issues whatsoever! I have 2 8mm fans in the case (one front intake, one back outtake) and the added noise of the CPU and power supply unit fans are minimal! Ah yes, I changed the PSU as well, just in case. Not an expensive, "brand" name, but it works great on my computer. I'd definitely get a better one if I ever upgraded again though.
Regarding the ATi-NVidia debate: it's a fact, some game perform better with an ATI, others with an NVidia. A few years ago, I was an avid NVidia supporter (and user). Then I got an FX5200. I still rue the day. At that time my girlfriend got her computer. It had similar specs with mine but the aforementioned Radeon 9200. A couple of weeks later I settled at her place and sold my computer to a friend. I still feel bad I dumped him that blasted FX5200! Now I don't know what I'd choose if I'd get a new machine, although NVidia seems to be getting back on track (or maybe ATI falling a bit behind?).

[Aldebaran]

Sorry for butting in, but I really don't recomment the 256mb version in a GeForce 6600GT, because the memory on it version is slower than on the 128mb version. A 128mb card is enough for the Sims2, it relies more on the CPU than any other game I know

You're right about that, to a point. These "slower" 256MB cards use DDR2 memory instead of GDDR3 utilized in the 128MB version, but I've seen GDDR3 versions of 256MB as well. Not that sure if they have any here in Greece, but in the States you'll sure find some.

In that case, I stand corrected. Now I wish they had these cards in Europe as well...

Regarding the ATi-NVidia debate: it's a fact, some game perform better with an ATI, others with an NVidia. A few years ago, I was an avid NVidia supporter (and user). Then I got an FX5200. I still rue the day. At that time my girlfriend got her computer. It had similar specs with mine but the aforementioned Radeon 9200. A couple of weeks later I settled at her place and sold my computer to a friend. I still feel bad I dumped him that blasted FX5200! Now I don't know what I'd choose if I'd get a new machine, although NVidia seems to be getting back on track (or maybe ATI falling a bit behind?).

And some of the games just prefer one of the brands, mostly nVidia from what I've seen. ATI, by specs, is often better than an nVidia in the same range, but since many of the games favor nVidias they can close up their small disadvantage. If I want to use the cliche, then ATI has a better picture, better FSAA, but is generally a little clumsier, while nVidia is fast, but the picture is not as good. I had always had nVidia cards (with an exception of an S3 in the beginnings), and my now late 64MB GeForce4Ti-4200 always did better than a friends computer that was basically the same as mine, but AMD instead of Intel, ATI instead of nVidia. Then came the screeching halt when I got Black&White 2 that supported ATI... nice glitchfest ensued and took a while to make it playable without polygons flickering about every seconds 

[yetyak]

It's funny that everyone who has a 5200 video card says they suck.  That's what I have (with 256 mb ram) and it is so much better than the 440 MX GeForce I had before.  My daughter has a 5700, and other than not having to change the graphics rules file for bump maps, I really can't see much difference.  Perhaps because the video is the best component in her system and the worst in mine?  Not sure, but I am looking forward to upgrading, and seeing how much better it can be.

Thanks to everyone for the wealth of information in this thread!!!

[cristalfiona]

Looking at your (read- everyones) specs makes me itch to upgrade my computer. At the moment i play on my mums laptop (which isnt too bad-only lags on large lots with 8 sims after ive been playing a while or at the day - night change), and by the time i get back to England, ill probably be better off just buying a new pc- mine is almost 5 years old, and wasnt great then.

So does anyone know of any sites like newegg that are in the uk? Cos the shipping from america would probably be more than the pc.

[jack_d_spratt]

Ah, hardware gurus.  Back when I was young I was used to keep up, now I've realized that between the time you order and receive your system becomes outdated.

I've come to just rely on Dell, never had a problem. But I'd never heard of Alienware, so I just went out to configure a couple of comparable systems, a Dell and an Alienware.  Substantial cost difference.  What's the skinny on this Alienware outfit?  They skimping on the bus or anything?

I've seen that before, places putting together fast processors and loads of memory on weak chipsets.  Never satisfies...

BTW, ATI all the way.  Loved them since I got my first PSA ATI 2D card with a whopping 1M of VRAM.  An unheard of extravagance.  Running a 9700 now.

[Stitches]

Ah, hardware gurus.  Back when I was young I was used to keep up, now I've realized that between the time you order and receive your system becomes outdated.

I've come to just rely on Dell, never had a problem. But I'd never heard of Alienware, so I just went out to configure a couple of comparable systems, a Dell and an Alienware.  Substantial cost difference.  What's the skinny on this Alienware outfit?  They skimping on the bus or anything?

If referring to Alienware's high price tags there are a few major differences.
1. Customer Service: Dell relies on outsourcing, Alienware's customer service is all handled in country by their employees who are very highly trained. They still have accents usually but that leads us to point two:
2. Minority Employer: Alienware is a minority employer located in Florida. The vast number of their employees are Hispanic, mainly Puerto Rican and Cuban. However, unlike minorities employed in assembly lines like Dell, these people receive training to build high quality goods and are well paid.
3. Quality: Alienware PCs have only the highest quality components whereas Dell tends to put cheaper RAM, motherboards, and harddrives in. Alienware also has an intense quality control system, they delete all the useless extra programs that plague PCs, and they provide you with much more indepth documentation on your system.

Note that I don't recommend Alienware laptops. You put so much high power stuff in a laptop and it overheats in a dramatic fashion. I know this because I have one and it's basically a 3 grand space heater.

[MokeyHokey]

(It hurts me whenever someone mentions gutting an Alienware. I love mine to death, though it is just a poor inferior laptop.)

I have never regretted my Alienware. Their tech support is fantastic. The problem with it is that we bought it in 2004. At the time it was friggin awesome, and now even after replacing lots of components--like the GeForce FX 5600 we replaced with the 6800 Ultra--it still feels old and clunky. Of course we replaced the damn (expensive) AGP card right before the PCI-E first got big, or I'd have waited and replaced the motherboard THEN.  It's also got a heat problem we have managed to stave off so far by replacing the fans with (extremely loud) turbo ones.

Back when I was young I was used to keep up, now I've realized that between the time you order and receive your system becomes outdated.

I used to feel like I knew what I wanted in my computer, and now the technology has advanced until I am waaay out of my league. Which is why I ask for advice here, 'cause I know no one here will tell me I can download a new video card if I just Google it. 

[BlueSoup]

You mean....you can't just google and download a new video card?

What the hell? 

[gethane]

(It hurts me whenever someone mentions gutting an Alienware. I love mine to death, though it is just a poor inferior laptop.)

I used to feel like I knew what I wanted in my computer, and now the technology has advanced until I am waaay out of my league. Which is why I ask for advice here, 'cause I know no one here will tell me I can download a new video card if I just Google it. 

LOL, I remember reading that post on the BBS! That was before I discovered the forum that is Most Awesome.

[nectere]

You know I was originally looking into an alienware box, but I can build my own box way better for less. What is the big deal about alienware?

Theres a few things that I MUST have on my next box, but for starters and most important to me is a processor with at least 1ghz FSB and 1mb caching, and then a hard drive that is a 10krpm drive, with around 80gb or better. I couldnt find an alienware that had those two things and didnt break the bank, infact I couldnt find any of the alienwares that had a faster than a 7200rpm hardrive, whats up with that? And the one computer that kinda came close to the specs I am building (next week infact woot!) was 1000 more than what I will pay to build it myself and still didnt have the hard drive, the cdrw/dvd drives or any of the other little goodies I want. To reconfigure their box it would cost me around 2500 or more as opposed to around 1500? not.

Am I missing something obvious here?

[gethane]

If you are missing something, I am too. I think people want Alienware for the pretty box . Though I realize not everyone can just build their own computer.

[Stitches]

Am I missing something obvious here?

Tech support. Custom computers aren't just a matter of plugging components together. Unless you are a computer whiz, you're going to have problems. Many custome computers become expensive paperweights when something goes wrong that the builder can't fix.

Also, as previously mentioned, the box is pretty and looks wayy cute next to my iPod and JBL saucer speakers. 

[flowerchile]

(It hurts me whenever someone mentions gutting an Alienware. I love mine to death, though it is just a poor inferior laptop.)

I used to feel like I knew what I wanted in my computer, and now the technology has advanced until I am waaay out of my league. Which is why I ask for advice here, 'cause I know no one here will tell me I can download a new video card if I just Google it. 

LOL, I remember reading that post on the BBS! That was before I discovered the forum that is Most Awesome.

COOL!!  Do you have a link? Sounds like an interesting site...

[gethane]

It was just on that most unawesome site, the official sims bbs! I was searching for a solution to the blue glowy pillows (before I found out on MTS2 that it was a driver issue) and ran across a thread that I skimmed through where someone actually said something about downloading a new video card. I thought about replying, but seriously, when something is that messed up, what do you say? I just shook my head, and kept on skimming.

[flowerchile]

It was just on that most unawesome site, the official sims bbs! I was searching for a solution to the blue glowy pillows (before I found out on MTS2 that it was a driver issue) and ran across a thread that I skimmed through where someone actually said something about downloading a new video card. I thought about replying, but seriously, when something is that messed up, what do you say? I just shook my head, and kept on skimming.

Hey, I went there (BBS) and stirred up some shit today, it was most awesome, I haven't been kicked out yet.  Poor Coolone. HAHAHA

[angelyne]

What do you guys think of this PC ?  Keep in mind the price is in Canadian $$$

http://configure.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=ca&CS=CADHS1&l=en&OC=OCDIM5150_FEAT_CH51WP3

My head is frigging swimming.  Should I go the easy route with the system described above or should I build my own system.  Of course it means I have to learn all this hardware gibberish.  <groan> I CAN understand it if I want, I am just not sure I am interested enough to do so. 

[miramis]

Instead of using 3.0 ghz, AMD refers to it as "3000"
3.2 ghz = 3200. Snazzy, huh?

It doesn't work like that, I still can't figure out how exactly it does work but I do know that the 2200 = 1.6/1.7ghz.  3200 = 2.2Ghz.  Don't confuse the numbers in the name with what the AMD processor actually puts out. 

[gjam]

Instead of using 3.0 ghz, AMD refers to it as "3000"
3.2 ghz = 3200. Snazzy, huh?

It doesn't work like that, I still can't figure out how exactly it does work but I do know that the 2200 = 1.6/1.7ghz.  3200 = 2.2Ghz.  Don't confuse the numbers in the name with what the AMD processor actually puts out. 

Yes, but... 

In theory, (I won't guarantee it's not partially AMD marketing hype) because the AMD chip works completely differently than the Intel chip does, a slower AMD chip gives the same performance as a faster Intel chip.  So they used the model numbers to point out what to compare.  In other words, even though the AMD 2200 is "only" 1.6 GHz, it should perform the same as an Intel 2.2 GHz.