Need lesson in CPU

[Verona]

Over the last few months with the Sims 2, I've determined from forums I've visited that CPU is as important or more so than RAM. They say the Sims 2 is a CPU driven game. Or uses a lot of "juice".

 I ran a DxDiag on my computer and do not see anything that resembles CPU in any way.  Don't know how to determine how much I have. Or, can I add more. Or can I throw this computer out the front door? It's Windows XP by the way.

I intend to be ready shortly to get a "gaming computer" and want to know how much CPU I need or will need for future expansions and is there a maximum of RAM available. I want it all.  I have 1024 RAM now and still can invite only 2 people. In a thread a while back, JM said anybody that could only invite 2 people didn't know what they were doing and he mentioned CPU as I remember. That means I'm lacking in CPU, and maybe other things, aside from the fact that I'm dumb and can't figure out even how to find things. My computer store guy doesn't play games so he is no help at all. He does make house calls so he has maxed my computer out in every way we can. I have 2 hard drives ( C drive has 72% free space, E drive has 58%)and I think updated graphics. Not sure there. In his last visit, he said there is nothing left to max out on this computer for whatever that means.  I have 2 Gigs and this computer is devoted only to the Sims 2 , Windows 20% for operating the system, and of course, the internet. Nothing else.

After reading hours of threads on Maty and other forums, I've completely determined that I don't know anything about computers at all. Started working with them in 1975 (really) but it would appear that all of my knowledge is antique now. I can just barely speak the language any more.

So, would one of you guys give me the specs that would be the best available for the Sims 2 for now, and the future. Money is not the problem here. I'm a retired old lady, and the Sims are my only vice. I do spend way too much time playing the game and downloading, etc. but it's a fun way to spend your retirement years. I'm just loving it.

You guys put together the main things I need to get and I'll have the list handy for my computer guy and he will be amazed I even know what to ask for.

Even though I don't post much at all, I feel that I know many of you personally and have some favorites. Zoltan's pictures just can't be beat. Always do enjoy them. BlueSoup is my idol and I admire her knowledge. Many of you are so much fun and I enjoy you all and visit on a daily basis.

I can give you some of my specs if that would be of any benefit. Be funny if I already had a couple of good parts and didn't even know it. Like maybe my CPU can be upgraded. That would be great right there.

I'm one of your newest and "oldest" Maty members. Maybe your first Senior Citizen. I am really old and really enjoying life. 'Course, I would die without my computer and the Sims.

Hope I have made sense here and really do appreciate any advice you can give me. Don't forget now, I don't know beans about computers any more. Think of this as CPU 101. Thanks guys.

[Emma]

I haven't a clue about CPU either, but I know you can get to see where it is on your PC by pressing alt-ctrl-delete (on windows XP anyway-don't know about anything else)
Welcome btw *waves* MATY is as addictive as the game 

[jrd]

CPU = Central Processing Unit. The processor (Intel or AMD).

If you use a modern Windows OS, press winkey+break. On the bottom of the window it lists 'Computer'. The first entry is your CPU (as detected by Windoze), the second entry the RAM.

You cannot add more CPU without replacing the processor, which usually means also replacing the motherboard.


As for the Sims 2, RAM is far more important than CPU. TS2 runs faster on slow CPUs with more RAM than on fast CPUs and little RAM. The videocard is also very important.

[Emma]

Oh-and I can only invite 2 sims over too...I use this cheat to get over it:

intProp maxNumOfVisitingSims 8

 

[flowerchile]

Oh-and I can only invite 2 sims over too...I use this cheat to get over it:

intProp maxNumOfVisitingSims 8

 

;DThanks for that Emma, I've been trying to find that cheat. 
P.S.  I went to have a look at Laverwinkle; what a friendly little Newsbox you have.  Nobody sux!

[Verona]

CPU = Central Processing Unit. The processor (Intel or AMD).

Okay, it says"

Processor:AMD Athlon(tm)XP2400+, MMX, 3dNow,~2.0GHz

So what does that tell you.  Okay amount, need more, What would be better?  Thanks for responding so quickly and I have to chuckle.....the letters have worn off my keyboard because I am a typist I don't need to see the letters....however, I don't know where a Winkey would be. Is it that symbol on one side of the shift key or is it Prt Scrn/Sys Req key maybe..

I got the information for you from my printout.

[jrd]

Winkey = Windows key, the one in between ctrl and alt.

You have an Athlon XP 2400 processor, which is more than good enough for TS2.
Check into your RAM: 512MB is the absolute minimum, anything over 1GB is okay.

Your most likely 'weak spot' is the videocard: you should have at least a Geforce4 (not MX!) or a comparable ATI card. (You need hardware-based T&L). 128MB RAM on the vidcard or more.

[Sagana]

You don't really need to be able to invite more than 2 people to a party. If you want more people there, invite the others first, then throw the party. They'll all attend and go home when the timer runs out.

Setting up the number of people you can invite to parties in the user start-ups cheats will give you more people on community lots if you want more there tho. I left mine which means I don't have that many on Uni lots, but I rarely go to Uni's lots anyway. I'm satisfied with the amount on downtown lots and don't want to slow things down with more unnecessary sims.

You can adjust the rest of the game settings. If your videocard isn't very good, you probably want to leave reflections off, can't turn smoothing on and don't see bumpmaps, but you can set everything else up. I turn sim and graphic details to high and I have all the fingers and everything.

Is your game slowing down or giving you trouble? Or are you just looking to be able to invite more sims?

PS: Hi! I'm getting on towards retirement (tho I'm never going to be able to afford it) and don't understand Windows computers :)

[Verona]

Winkey = Windows key, the one in between ctrl and alt.

You have an Athlon XP 2400 processor, which is more than good enough for TS2.
Check into your RAM: 512MB is the absolute minimum, anything over 1GB is okay.

Your most likely 'weak spot' is the videocard: you should have at least a Geforce4 (not MX!) or a comparable ATI card. (You need hardware-based T&L). 128MB RAM on the vidcard or more.

I have 1024 RAM and 2 GB  The Videocard (chipcard?) GeForce FX 5200 or how about this:

Card name: ASUS V9520-X V62.11     are either of those the videocard?

Funny that Winkey isn't worn off. All I ever used that for in past years was to start the computer in safe mode hitting that key and F8...don't know if that still works that way or not.

Sure am appreciating your information.

[Verona]

You don't really need to be able to invite more than 2 people to a party. If you want more people there, invite the others first, then throw the party. They'll all attend and go home when the timer runs out.

Setting up the number of people you can invite to parties in the user start-ups cheats will give you more people on community lots if you want more there tho. I left mine which means I don't have that many on Uni lots, but I rarely go to Uni's lots anyway. I'm satisfied with the amount on downtown lots and don't want to slow things down with more unnecessary sims.

You can adjust the rest of the game settings. If your videocard isn't very good, you probably want to leave reflections off, can't turn smoothing on and don't see bumpmaps, but you can set everything else up. I turn sim and graphic details to high and I have all the fingers and everything.

Is your game slowing down or giving you trouble? Or are you just looking to be able to invite more sims?

PS: Hi! I'm getting on towards retirement (tho I'm never going to be able to afford it) and don't understand Windows computers

I appreciate the tips on inviting people and then having the party and I will do that, but the deal is, I'm not as concerned about having 8 people at a time. I just want that capability because other people have it and I want my computer to maximize its power in every way. Nothing runs slow in my game at all really.  I've got all the graphic details jacked up as high as they will go and everything works fine. I've got the fingers and all which I didn't have until I jacked up the settings.

PS:  I never thought I would be able to retire. Work was a way of life but it can happen and you can afford it. That old saying "if I can do it, you can do it"...Believe me, we are not rich but we are comfortable..and we are retired.  And, as you can see, I know nothing about Windows computers after 30 some odd years..But I'm learning more about computers every minute at Maty.

[DrBeast]

Heh, seniors never cease to amaze me...at least those not living in Greece! Ask any senior in Greece what s/he's doing and you'll get one of these answers:
men: going to the cafe to play some cards or backgammon
        tending the garden
        discussing politics with other retired friends
women: tending the house
            looking after their grandchildren
            knitting
Playing sims?! Eh? They don't even know what a computer looks like, let alone play games on it! Keep it going Verona, you sure made my day when I read your post, and I'll be more than happy to answer

First of all, the CPU is the processor, and it's got nothing to do with DxDiag, an application that checks the graphics card. What mainly determines speed on a computer is its processor and RAM. The faster the processor, the better. Also, the more RAM you've got.
Now, you don't specify if you're playing the core Sims 2 game or any expansion. As of Nightlife, computer specs have gone up, and I remember various threads that discussed this issue of people who'd be playing the game with lots of eye-candy and half a battalion invited to each party before Nightlife, after installing said expansion had their graphics settings reset (by the game) to low and could only invite two people. Since you're knowledge on computers is fairly inadequate (as you claim), I wouldn't recommend you tampering with any game files that alter these numbers, as some people did and got their batttalion of party-members back. If any of those could be kind enough to send you one such altered file it'd be nice indeed. Unfortunately, I haven't played the game for quite some time, and I don't have it installed on this computer (I'm at work right now, the game sits idly in my hard drive at my home computer which lacks internet connection), so I can't send you any such file.

Having said that, here's the "gaming computer" I'd buy if I could afford it (we PhD students aren't rolling in riches you see, even if it's a PhD on Veterinary Science  ):
For starters, your computer's heart, the CPU. Though I've been using exclusievly Intel processors until now, my next computer will definitely have an AMD processor. Way better for gaming, and much more efficient than the Intel "mini-barbeques". I'd go for an Athlon64 3700+ San Diego. For $233 (newegg price), you can't get anything better!
RAM: 1 GB is good, 2 GB is better! Computer games have a bad habit of demanding more and more, and though 1 GB is more than adequate today, 2 GB will have you prepared for tomorrow!
Graphics card (or graphics processor unit, GPU): hmm, tricky. Things are a bit cloudy right now, as new models spring up every day! I'll give you two options: 1) ATi Radeon X800GTO2 256MB (mind you, GTO2),costing around $190, or 2)GeForce 6600GT 256MB for maybe $10-$20 less. Both should be PCI-E cards, as the AGP interface is slowly fading away (yah, maybe this sounds like tech mumbo-jumbo, but it's essentially how your graphics card is connected to the motherboard. AGP used to be the norm up until recently, but it's being superceded by PCI-E, which to me is just the computing industry's "cough up your money for upgrades, sucker!" attitude...).
Hard drive: a Western Digital (never owned any other brand!) with 320GB capacity has more storage room than you'll ever need!
All these compotents (and others such as DVD-ROM and/or burner etc, parts which I'll not dwell on) need to be connected to each other in some way, yes? That's what the motherboard is doing. All these parts are connected to the motherboard and "communicate" with each other via this piece of hardware. So picking a good motherboard is crucial. My two favorite ones are the Asus A8N-SLI and the MSI K8N SLI. You might have noticed the SLI suffix on both boards. This means they can take two Geforce PCI-E graphics cards which work simultaneously! May be another trick of the computer industry, but running two graphic cards simultaneously seems to be the latest gimmick (read: trick to make us cough up more money). This SLI technology is utilized by only a few Geforce cards, and they have to be indentical to work like this (i.e. same manufacturer, same card model). The 6600GT I suggested is SLI capable, so if you're feeling really adventurous you could get two of those hooked up on any of the motherbards I mentioned!

This does not come cheap though. Add up the cost for the case, the power supply unit, and other paraphernalia (monitor, keyboard, DVD-ROM and/or burner), and the price for this system is close to $1400! But it's well worth it if you're REALLY into gaming!

Man, this must be the longest post I've ever written! It seems my 2-month absence from this forum has accumulated into one giant post! Hope this has been of help! Glad to have you here on MATY!

Edit: wow! 8 replies until I got the post written! I'm getting slow! 

[DrBeast]

Sorry for the double post, but I'm afraid this'll get lost in the mess of my first one. The graphics card you mentioned is the ASUS V9520-X, which carries the Geforce FX5200 chipset. This card is mediocre at best (used to have it on my computer, I rued the day I bought it!). A single switch to a better graphics card is all you need to enjoy the game. In other words, take my previous post and trash it! A GeForce 6600GT AGP is all you need! An 128MB model costs about $140-$150, a 256MB model is about $50 extra. I'd go for 256MB!

[Emma]

P.S.  I went to have a look at Laverwinkle; what a friendly little Newsbox you have.  Nobody sux!

Yep, that's cos Reg is in luuurve *grins*

[ZiggyDoodle]

The following article might help:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6133243/index.html?type=tech&page=1

[angelyne]

I agree that Verona probably only need a better graphic card, but your post did not go to waste Dr Beast, as I am looking for a new computer at the moment.  Even though I'm a tech support person, I am just not geeky enough to keep abreast of the latest and shinest stuff.  Every time I ugprade (which isn't often) I need to go and re-learn all that stuff.  I was procrastinating doing that

Or Verona, this is a little nickpicky and out of topic, but when you want to reply to a comment someone made and you want that reply to be quoted, just click on the quote button above the post.  It will start a reply with the text all nicely quoted and formated.  You can also edit the text that is between the quote and the /quote to take out the irrelevant bits.  If you are replying to several posts, like you did above, you can highlight the relevant text and click on the little symbol that looks like a talk bubble,  it format the text into a quote. Makes everything easier to read   Oh and there are a lot of formatting options there to play with , bold, italics, underline,  color and lots more

[DrBeast]

I agree that Verona probably only need a better graphic card, but your post did not go to waste Dr Beast, as I am looking for a new computer at the moment.  Even though I'm a tech support person, I am just not geeky enough to keep abreast of the latest and shinest stuff.  Every time I ugprade (which isn't often) I need to go and re-learn all that stuff.  I was procrastinating doing that

Yah, it's getting annoying. I stay away from computer-related magazines for a couple of months, and next time I get one my head starts to hurt from all the changes that are upon us! SLI, Crossfire, dual-core CPUs, DVD successors...give us a break already! Then I read about the forthcoming Vista specs and that just adds insult to injury!

[gjam]

I'm also trying to determine the specs for the new system I plan to get Real Soon Now.  It will be designed around Sims 2, because everything else I do runs just fine on my 4 year old, 1.2GHz, 256MB Celeron.  I know about the GeForce 6600GT.  I know about the PCI-E interface.  I know I want at least 1GB RAM.

As for the Sims 2, RAM is far more important than CPU. TS2 runs faster on slow CPUs with more RAM than on fast CPUs and little RAM. The videocard is also very important.

I'm confused about this.  There's a hardware review for Sims 2 at http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST--2558-x-x-x&body_pagenum=1 that says (if I'm understanding it correctly) once you have 512MB, a faster processor makes more difference than more RAM.  On the other hand, their chart only lists perfomance for Pentium, and unless someone can give me a pretty convincing argument otherwise, I prefer Athlon.

Is there any chance that the advice that RAM matters more (as quoted above and also seen on a number of other forums) really relates to improving performance on an existing system?  Because adding RAM is a lot cheaper than upgrading a processor.  But when you're going for a complete new system, you're buying a motherboard and a processor anyway, so all you need to look at is the difference in price for the faster processor.  Or am I missing something?

[Gwill]

2GHz is fine for a gaming PC, and more than you need for Sims 2.
Buy more RAM if your computer can take it.  You might have to take out the RAM you have and replace it with larger ones.  If you have two 256MB chips, get rid of them and buy one 1GB chip in stead (or two if you feel the need to spoil yourself). Motherboards only have so many RAM slots, espeically on the kind of pre-assembled PCs they sell in most electronics stores.

RAM is relatively cheap and easy to install, so it's a good first step.
If you still want more juce; get a good graphics card.

[eamethyst]

This thread couldn't have been posted at a more convenient time for me.  I have a year old computer with a Pentium 4 processor and am planning to upgrade my RAM in the next couple of weeks.  I know that currently I have 512 MB ram in 2 sticks(?) with 2 empty slots available for upgrade. 

A few months ago TwoJeffs posted a link to a site that would scan your system and tell you what you have, but I am going to need to find the site again so that I know the speed of my current RAM. 

My question after all of that is do those of you who are more knowledgeable about these things, think I will notice a difference in how my game runs if I upgrade to 1 or 2 GB of RAM?  (If I am remembering correctly my system will allow up to 4 GB of RAM).  Currently my game only lags slightly on large lots with a lot of stuff on them.

[BlueSoup]

I know that when I upgraded from 256MB to 768MB, the difference was amazing.  Of course, it's no longer good enough, but that's because I am a download whore and the rest of my specs also suck.     You will definitely notice a difference if you double your RAM.

[dawnkeeper]

Hmmmm.... Well I am not sure that upgrading from 1 GB to 2 GB you would notice that much of a difference. Can't be sure though.

I started with 1 GB RAM and I decided one day to add 2 more. Personally I did not notice much of a difference. I still use 3 GB of RAM and things run real smooth but I am not sure that I see a great big difference between then and now.

Of course in the past when I changed from 512 to 1 GB of RAM I noticed a much bigger difference. I think after a certain point, fast is fast?

[eamethyst]

How I put that was unclear.  I have a total of 512 MB RAM split between 2 sticks or cards.  There are a total of 4 RAM slots on my motherboard, and my understanding is that I need to use at least 2 of the 4 slots and the RAM will run at the speed of the slowest card so I need to be sure that I match the speed of the current RAM that I have.

[diamonde]

I'm also trying to determine the specs for the new system I plan to get Real Soon Now.  It will be designed around Sims 2, because everything else I do runs just fine on my 4 year old, 1.2GHz, 256MB Celeron.  I know about the GeForce 6600GT.  I know about the PCI-E interface.  I know I want at least 1GB RAM.

As for the Sims 2, RAM is far more important than CPU. TS2 runs faster on slow CPUs with more RAM than on fast CPUs and little RAM. The videocard is also very important.

I'm confused about this.  There's a hardware review for Sims 2 at http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST--2558-x-x-x&body_pagenum=1 that says (if I'm understanding it correctly) once you have 512MB, a faster processor makes more difference than more RAM.  On the other hand, their chart only lists perfomance for Pentium, and unless someone can give me a pretty convincing argument otherwise, I prefer Athlon.

Is there any chance that the advice that RAM matters more (as quoted above and also seen on a number of other forums) really relates to improving performance on an existing system?  Because adding RAM is a lot cheaper than upgrading a processor.  But when you're going for a complete new system, you're buying a motherboard and a processor anyway, so all you need to look at is the difference in price for the faster processor.  Or am I missing something?

I'm suspicious of that review, since they didn't actually play the game to test it, just moved around the house while it was running.  Maybe it's just me, but if I'm hunting through the entire house then I've probably got the game paused anyway because I've lost something/someone.  Playing a five-person family for six hours without saving and then the birth of twins, now that would be a test.  Or seeing what reduced the loading time, or how many people you could get onto an object-heavy lot before it started to really lag.  Framerate is not the be-all and end-all of gaming, for heaven's sake.

Myself, I've only really played on my desktop which has a 3.0GHz P4 processor and handles Nightlife quite easily.  The computer next to mine also plays Uni for someone else without any apparent problems, and it's a 3 year-old Athlon.  Upgrading her graphics card made it prettier, but it always played fine as far as I could see and I never heard her swear about loading or lag.  What made a difference for me was when I blew part of my tax refund on upgrading the RAM from 512MB to 1GB.  Loading time halved or more, lag on lots with a lot of objects and/or people almost disappeared.  And I've never had a problem with restricted party guests or people on community lots.  (ATI Radeon 9600, 256MB graphics if you wondered.)

So, yeah, I think you can safely ignore the review since more than 512MB RAM makes a big difference to actual gameplay.  I may buy another stick this August, just to see if it still gets better and I can have even more things running in the background as I play than I do now.  (Not only do I not turn everything off, I queue up a bunch of downloads as well.)  The nice thing about RAM is it's easy to keep upgrading it, and as long as you have the right type for your motherboard it's pretty straightforward to put it in yourself whenever you can afford it.  I would suggest staying away from Celeron processors in future, though.  The shop where I bought my computer has stopped selling them completely, apparently they make the owner want to hurt people.  The hand gestures he made were very convincing.

[angelyne]

Personally I think that you can have too much memory. Not that it would hurt performance, but it's just a waste of money, because it goes unused. 

If you go ctr-alt-del and click on the performance tab, you will see a little graphic that shows you how much memory you are using.  If you load up sims and your programs in a setup that is typical of your playing style and look at that number: if it's below your total memory then you are fine.  If it's above your total that means your system must use virtual memory on your disk. Your system starts doing something that is referred to as swapping. As it's running out of room in memory it caches some of that information on the drive and starts swapping chunk of info back and forth from memory to disk.  That process slooooooooooows down performances greatly.  That's why, if you ever had the experience of running a computer with less than an optimal amount of memory, adding extra ram is nothing short of a miracle.  But once you have plenty of ram, adding more will not really do much for you except make you poorer.  So if you are buying a new computer, by all means, buy all the memory you can afford.  You will "grown into it".  But if you are simply upgrading now, it's a little pointless to get a huge amount of ram, because by the time your system requires 2 GB of ram, it will be probably be hopelessly outdated and hardware will have changed again, so that you won't even be able to transfer your memory to your new system.

Don't forget that a computer system is just that... a system.  A series of interconnected parts that all work together.  You might buy a ton of ram for your older system, and that will improve performances up to a point, but only up to a point. Then if you buy a new video card  you might still be bottlenecked by a slow hard drive.   If you install a new hard drive, your CPU might be the bottleneck (Not you Verona you're fine ).  But the time you finished upgrading all that, you have spent the money for a new system, without the pleasure of getting something shiny and new.  Not to mention you probably had to restrict yourself to hardware compatible to your old clunker, and so missed out on the newest and shiniest technology.

blah blah blah.  I am droning on and on aren't I.  Bottom line: 1 GB should be plenty for the sims. A modern video card is a must.  A hard drive slower than 7200 RPM will affect your performances, especially loading time. And last but not least a fast CPU.  If you need all of the above, give your computer to your little brother and buy something shiny and new. 


PS.  I agree with your assement of that review.   They wanted to keep the conditions of the test the same, so there was no risk of introducing a variance.  If you don't test exactly the same scenario each time how can you be sure that your results are due to a different video card.  But the method they used has little to do with real play.  Lots are far from static.  They grow with each addition you graft unto the house, each new object your purchase and each new sims that gets added to the family. That's without mentioning parties, neighbours and the rest.

But still it was interesting nevertheless, if for no other reason that it reminded me of the importance of defragmenting my drive and the impact of a fast disk drive on performance (it's really amazing).


 

[MissDoh]

Ok here is my little computer update story to fit Sims 2.

When I started to play my computer had those specs:
Pentium 4, 2.0mghz
Videocard:  NVidia GeForce4 MX440
DDR Ram:  512meg

My updated computer is like this now:
Pentium 4, 2.0mghz
Videocard:  ATI 9800 pro 128mb (very good card but you cannot find it anymore)
DDR Ram:  1.0gig
Power supply of 350watts

Now when I did my update it was prior having Nightlife.  With University when I added the new videocard I was able to have 8 guests and see cut scenes, I was really happy.  I added 512 meg of Ram later to make it a total of 1.0gig and it ran even smoother, I was in heaven
.
I install Nightlife and was drop to 2 guests!!! but I still have the cut scenes and can put the settings as high as I want (though I mostly set my game at medium settings).  I don't understand how the game calculates the capacity of visitors you can have but I wonder how come I was not set to 4 or 5, why drop from 8 to 2???  I use the intprop maxnumofivisitingsims 8 cheat and see no problem, the game runs smooths with no problem.  I use it mostly so I can have 8 Sims on community lots.  There is always a way around when you throw a party at home but you need to use the cheat if you want more sims on community lots.