Harder finances hack?

[Sagana]

That strikes me as manifestly unfair.

<is rather amused that while you deny your sims what I consider necessities, like, oh say, bathrooms and food, you build hacks based on treating them all poorly equally> ;)

I'd love taxes and increased wages for maids and all and private school costs. This all sounds great to me.

So you're saying you lived in a jeep until such a time as you could afford to buy a house outright, not a downpayment, but the entire amount out of pocket? Either you're making a lot of money or that was a rough several decades ;) The mind boggles.

[syberspunk]

That strikes me as manifestly unfair.

Well... that's kind of the point. Have you seen "Sophie's Choice" or at least heard of it? I only saw parts of it, but I know the general story and what ultimately she had to make a choice about. A bit morbid, but hey, life is unfair... then you get raped by wild boars... and then you fall asleep in your food, wake up, piss yourself, pass out in your own pee, wake up again, and starve to death.

Isn't that sort of the point? How do you *HAVE* that many teens anyway? 6 teens seems to be about a stretch of 18 days if you spawn them back to back, slightly less for twins, but twins are only 10%, so figure statistically there won't be more than one set, still 15 days.

I get the point, but I wish it wasn't an "all or nothing" situation like it was with the taxis. Plus, parents tend to roll up individual wants for individual children to get into private school. So if I did have a choice, I could send them off one by one to actually satisfy those individual wants when they actually roll up.

And this was a CAS borne family, that initially started with two teens, two children, and two toddler twins. This family was created to reflect the actual family of one of my IRL friends. Unfortunately, since I couldn't have his three older sibs be adults, because the game is stupid and doesn't let adults be siblings to younger sims in CAS, and I didn't want to have to bother futzing around with SimPE, I decided to start off the family with all the children at younger ages. Since I can't really stagger the ages any more than the 3 available stages in CAS, I was forced to do it this way. I figured I would just use the Elixir to try and properly stagger the ages in-game.

Not all of the children went to private school anyways. I suppose I could wait and move out the older sibs to Uni before doing the private school thingie. 

Eh, you could just wait until they get kicked out from non-payment. What exactly are you spending all this money on anyway?

Ahh... well that brings up a few questions, because I forgot to ask about this:

So, sims can get kicked out of private school? How would this normally happen in game? By failing out? How low does the grade have to get? Is D sufficient or it has to get down to an F?

What happens when a sim gets kicked out of private school? Do they automatically get "demoted" to public school? Can you have those kids re-enroll by doing the headmaster scenario again?

Can a sim get kicked out of public school? If so, what happens? Do they just not have school at all? Is there a way to re-enroll?

Will the private school expenses be a separate bill that you can theoretically "forget" to pay, and thus have your sim children get kicked out? Or will it be lumped in together with the everyday bills? If so, then will expulsion be automatic or random? How many missed billing cycles would it take for expulsion to occur? The same amount as it does for the repoman to come?

I guess what I want to know is, if the bills are not separate, then are the consequences twofold: repoman And private school expulsion? Or will it be randomly selected between the two? In "real life" I'd be able to make a choice whether I wanted to pay my housebills or keep my kid in school, but if the bills are lumped together, I was just curious how the game (or how the potential hack) would handle the consequences of being late or remiss altogether.



On an related tangent I saw something really weird the other day in my sister's game:

The repo man came to her house, and appeared to be reposessing stuff with his repo-vacuum thingamjig, but he actually didn't take anything. He was running around, aiming it at blank walls. It didn't look like she lost anything, and there was no option to Macro.../Pay Bills or Kill Stuck Bills on the Lot Debugger. Is this one of the apocalyptic foreboding harbingers of an approaching BFBVFS?  Or just some Maxian random bug? It was kind of funny to see, the fact that the repo man didn't actually take anything. And I don't mean anything of value, like he normally does (like kitchen sinks, empty counters, and college diplomas when I have perfectly expensive stereos, TVs, and telescopes). He literally took nothing unless blank space is valuable for some reason. *shrugs*

And actually not all age eligible sims are automatically accepted into private school. They to have at least a C in school.

Ahh... see, once again, it is just way too easy for sims to get good grades in school. But I guess that's alright, since children barely go to school for one week, and teens barely two weeks. It still is kind of super easy to get A+'s in school. I think there should be a dependency on skill as well. Maybe logic? The max grade that a sim can get should depend on this.

Ste

[J. M. Pescado]

So you're saying you lived in a jeep until such a time as you could afford to buy a house outright, not a downpayment, but the entire amount out of pocket? Either you're making a lot of money or that was a rough several decades The mind boggles.

I didn't actually spend that much time in the country. Most of the time I was overseas on business.

And yeah, you could say it was a rough several decades. But hey, that's a small price to pay for seeing the world, meeting new and interesting people, and then killing them.

Well... that's kind of the point. Have you seen "Sophie's Choice" or at least heard of it?

Nope.

So, sims can get kicked out of private school? How would this normally happen in game? By failing out? How low does the grade have to get? Is D sufficient or it has to get down to an F?

D, I think.

What happens when a sim gets kicked out of private school? Do they automatically get "demoted" to public school? Can you have those kids re-enroll by doing the headmaster scenario again?

Yes, and presumably so, although I've never tried it.

Can a sim get kicked out of public school? If so, what happens? Do they just not have school at all? Is there a way to re-enroll?

A child that fails school gets taken by the SS, along with all the other spawn regardless of their grades. If you have things like the SS Hack (children will not be taken unless good kids are outnumbered by bad ones), or they are teens, then they just have an F. You can't actually drop out of school. If only it were that easy.

Will the private school expenses be a separate bill that you can theoretically "forget" to pay, and thus have your sim children get kicked out? Or will it be lumped in together with the everyday bills? If so, then will expulsion be automatic or random? How many missed billing cycles would it take for expulsion to occur? The same amount as it does for the repoman to come?

It appears to operate much in the way paying the maid works, when I reconnected and enabled that function. If you cannot pay, the kid whose turn it is to pay is booted out with a dialog.

On an related tangent I saw something really weird the other day in my sister's game:

The repo man came to her house, and appeared to be reposessing stuff with his repo-vacuum thingamjig, but he actually didn't take anything. He was running around, aiming it at blank walls. It didn't look like she lost anything, and there was no option to Macro.../Pay Bills or Kill Stuck Bills on the Lot Debugger. Is this one of the apocalyptic foreboding harbingers of an approaching BFBVFS?  Or just some Maxian random bug? It was kind of funny to see, the fact that the repo man didn't actually take anything. And I don't mean anything of value, like he normally does (like kitchen sinks, empty counters, and college diplomas when I have perfectly expensive stereos, TVs, and telescopes). He literally took nothing unless blank space is valuable for some reason. *shrugs*

Maybe he was stealing your wall lights?

[jrd]

The repo man came to her house, and appeared to be reposessing stuff with his repo-vacuum thingamjig, but he actually didn't take anything. He was running around, aiming it at blank walls. It didn't look like she lost anything, and there was no option to Macro.../Pay Bills or Kill Stuck Bills on the Lot Debugger. Is this one of the apocalyptic foreboding harbingers of an approaching BFBVFS?  Or just some Maxian random bug? It was kind of funny to see, the fact that the repo man didn't actually take anything. And I don't mean anything of value, like he normally does (like kitchen sinks, empty counters, and college diplomas when I have perfectly expensive stereos, TVs, and telescopes). He literally took nothing unless blank space is valuable for some reason. *shrugs*

Did your sister recently delete some meshes? Sounds like some paintings were stolen, which the game couldn't draw anymore.

[Sagana]

I didn't actually spend that much time in the country. Most of the time I was overseas on business.

I take it while you were overseas you had actual accommodations of some sort? Presumably that the business paid for?

Actually maybe this explains the no bathroom/starvation thing. You're just recreating your young adulthood, cleaning up in gas station bathroom sinks and stealing leftovers from people's plates in restaurants?

If I didn't have to go to work, I'd spend some time trying to figure out how long it'd take (disregarding the business-supplied overseas food and decent beds and showers) to live in a jeep long enough to earn enough. Say you make 20K a year (to make it easy, round numbers - I don't get along with numbers) but that's before taxes and you still have to buy gas and some food and clothes (if you've a decent job) and repairs for the vehicle and... what else?

Maybe that should be the next challenge - sims can sit in cars. Can they sleep in the car? They could sleep on the sidewalk tho, or on the floor for YAs. 'Cept you'd need some way to save them and you can't save on community lots or park a car in front of someone else's house in a residential lot. And it'd have to be a reasonable cost house - none of this "make sims life easy" stuff.

And yeah, you could say it was a rough several decades. But hey, that's a small price to pay for seeing the world, meeting new and interesting people, and then killing them.

<laugh> that's one way of doing it. Me, I took a cue from English nobility, skipped the hard decades stuff, and inherited a house. You just have to choose the right family. And then kill them.

Tho I got less of the traveling the world stuff that way.

[Renatus]

Ahh... see, once again, it is just way too easy for sims to get good grades in school. But I guess that's alright, since children barely go to school for one week, and teens barely two weeks. It still is kind of super easy to get A+'s in school. I think there should be a dependency on skill as well. Maybe logic? The max grade that a sim can get should depend on this.

Why? It is not guaranteed that a child will have good grades - send them to school in neutral to bad moods and/or don't have them do their homework and their grades stay the same or fall. If a child is sick and has to stay home from school, they lose a grade. Sounds perfectly reasonable and realistic to me, considering the game does not emulate any sort of disability and all children can be considered base normal. It's kind of our own fault if we micromanage them to the point they always get good grades, as not a lot of real children are nose to the grindstone types and always do all of their assignments or are always in a good mood.

[J. M. Pescado]

Why? It is not guaranteed that a child will have good grades - send them to school in neutral to bad moods and/or don't have them do their homework and their grades stay the same or fall. If a child is sick and has to stay home from school, they lose a grade.

Why would you have them stay home merely because they're sick? If anything, you should send them to school so they don't sit around  whining and moaning at you. They can't do all that tiresome and annoying coughing and sneezing if you kick them off to school anyway. Plus food costs extra, but school gruel is free.

Sounds perfectly reasonable and realistic to me, considering the game does not emulate any sort of disability and all children can be considered base normal.

I dunno about THAT. There's still the effects of mental retardation from lack of smart milk.

It's kind of our own fault if we micromanage them to the point they always get good grades, as not a lot of real children are nose to the grindstone types and always do all of their assignments or are always in a good mood.

What else would they do? I suppose you could intentionally ignore your assignments and not go to school, but then they still have to do SOMETHING. Standing around in silent misery isn't exactly an interesting activity.

[syberspunk]

Well... that's kind of the point. Have you seen "Sophie's Choice" or at least heard of it?

Nope.

The basic gist, and don't read this if you haven't seen it, but you want to, and don't want the movie spoiled for you:

It's a movie set during WWII, where Sophie I believe is Jewish, and sent to a concentration camp. She has an affair with one of the Nazi officials, who pulls many strings for her and does favors for her. However, one of his favors is to give her a choice. She has two children, and she gets to save only one from being executed. Obviously kind of a hard choice, for someone with a heart and compassion. Not that you are lacking in either... but the tendency to kill new and interesting people that you meet kind of speaks for itself. lol. Then again... you did keep the hugging in your hugging hack... so I suspect, underneath that cold, harsh, ruthless killer exterior lies a big ole softy assassin.

A child that fails school gets taken by the SS, along with all the other spawn regardless of their grades. If you have things like the SS Hack (children will not be taken unless good kids are outnumbered by bad ones), or they are teens, then they just have an F. You can't actually drop out of school. If only it were that easy.

Ahh... forgot about the SS worker, what with having your sshack and all, and it barely being hard at all to fail out of school or even get average grades. Too bad you can't just have kids that fail and suck at school, without necessarily being taken away. Does an F automatically get your teens taken away, if the good kids still outnumber the bad ones?

Let's say, in my household of 6 kids, if I have one teen that I want to have an F average, for role-playing purposes, do they automatically get taken away? Or is there a couple of days leeway before the SS worker shows up?

It appears to operate much in the way paying the maid works, when I reconnected and enabled that function. If you cannot pay, the kid whose turn it is to pay is booted out with a dialog.

Wait... doesn't the maid get paid at the end of her shift? So... for private school, will you have it just auto-deduct for each kid, as they arrive home, but only on the billing cycle days (i.e. Tues and Thurs only)?

Maybe he was stealing your wall lights?

Hrm... maybe it was the wall lights. lol. She might have had the house set to show no walls or only exterior walls, and maybe that's why we didn't notice. Still, it was pretty dumb of the repoman to forego the car and go after the wall lights in the garage instead.

Did your sister recently delete some meshes? Sounds like some paintings were stolen, which the game couldn't draw anymore.

I don't think so... but I'll check and ask her. She really didn't have any paintings in her game, as far as I knew. The only ones she did have were the recolours that I did a long time ago. And I didn't use any new meshes, only the Maxis ones. It's probably the wall lights. She probably didn't notice either because it was a lot she downloaded rather than made herself, so she probably didn't even know that there were wall lights to begin with.

Why? It is not guaranteed that a child will have good grades - send them to school in neutral to bad moods and/or don't have them do their homework and their grades stay the same or fall. If a child is sick and has to stay home from school, they lose a grade.

Why would you have them stay home merely because they're sick? If anything, you should send them to school so they don't sit around  whining and moaning at you. They can't do all that tiresome and annoying coughing and sneezing if you kick them off to school anyway. Plus food costs extra, but school gruel is free.

Wait... so can you still send sims to school/work sick and they won't die when they come home?

Sounds perfectly reasonable and realistic to me, considering the game does not emulate any sort of disability and all children can be considered base normal.

I dunno about THAT. There's still the effects of mental retardation from lack of smart milk.

Wait again... are there long-term visible/noticeable beneficial effects of using smart milk??? Will sims who have used smart milk actually act smarter? Or do you just mean they had/have an advantage because they probably managed to build up all their skills faster, but there is no significant change in behaviour?

It's kind of our own fault if we micromanage them to the point they always get good grades, as not a lot of real children are nose to the grindstone types and always do all of their assignments or are always in a good mood.

What else would they do? I suppose you could intentionally ignore your assignments and not go to school, but then they still have to do SOMETHING. Standing around in silent misery isn't exactly an interesting activity.

Yeah, children especially can be annoying when they don't have anything else to do. I suppose you could constantly skill build. But I still think there should be a cap on the grade you can get based on something like logic, which theoretically passes for sim intelligence. Not everyone gets A+'s in school. That's why there are nerd schools like the one I went to, and regular ole schools for the rest of the average schmoes. Your grade shouldn't necessarily depend on the mood you go to school in. I knew plenty of dumbasses and average schmoes who happily enjoyed being at school, but didn't exactly care about their grades. At best, the cap should be at A. Maybe sims with no logic can only get a C/C+. Sims with higher logic can get a B up to an A at max. Sims with a lot more logic can get an A+. If I have time, maybe I'll toy with this myself.

Ste

[Ancient Sim]

The amount of money you make is unchanged, but you can no longer skip the first 8 levels of a career track, nor are you always guaranteed to reach the top, because some jobs have a limited number of vacancies, in some cases a very HARD limit set by cold hard facts, and if a sim already occupies that job (Mayor, for instance), YOU CANNOT HAVE IT UNTIL THE OTHER PERSON RETIRES!

Although this makes perfect sense in real terms (I was surprised the first time I got my second mayor), it might prove a problem where townies are concerned.  I recently moved in YOUR true love, a downtownie, and she turned-out to be the mayor, and as she was literally only just at the start of adult, being a downtownie, it will be a long time before she retires.  For those with SimPE or other facilities to analyse townie files, this is no problem, but those without such advantages won't know who the mayor is in this sort of scenario.  Does the mod actually take townies and so on into account when deciding there is already a mayor or whatever?

I also noticed that a test mod for higher NPC's has sneaked in.  Exactly how much are they going to be costing with this in the game?  Will it vary depending on the financial status of the family or be higher for everyone?

[Renatus]

What else would they do? I suppose you could intentionally ignore your assignments and not go to school, but then they still have to do SOMETHING. Standing around in silent misery isn't exactly an interesting activity.

I play them... like they are real children. SURPRISE! Other people play the game differently than you because they would find your method dead boring!

[Kyna]

The amount of money you make is unchanged, but you can no longer skip the first 8 levels of a career track, nor are you always guaranteed to reach the top, because some jobs have a limited number of vacancies, in some cases a very HARD limit set by cold hard facts, and if a sim already occupies that job (Mayor, for instance), YOU CANNOT HAVE IT UNTIL THE OTHER PERSON RETIRES!

When I play a new hood I usually wait until the 2nd generation have LTWs before I stick the LTW Variety Mod in my game, so that there's a family history to draw on.

I don't like a lot of the family sim LTWs, so I usually reroll them.

These two factors combined mean that I end up with most of my 1st and 2nd generation family sims wanting to be Captain Hero.  In the harderjobs mod, is Captain Hero one of the jobs that can only be achieved if all other Captain Heroes have retired or resigned?

[J. M. Pescado]

I play them... like they are real children. SURPRISE! Other people play the game differently than you because they would find your method dead boring!

And....what exactly does that entail? Don't real children spend most of their time attempting to learn something that they will use in their adult lives? Although in most cases, nowadays that seems to entail building their "Video-Game-Playing" skills. But there's no such skill in TS2, which is why sim-video-games are immensely uninteresting. I mean, what else would they do? If it's not something you can get better at, isn't it immensely boring? Thus, like real children, sim-children are happiest and most productive when working on their skills.

[J. M. Pescado]

These two factors combined mean that I end up with most of my 1st and 2nd generation family sims wanting to be Captain Hero.  In the harderjobs mod, is Captain Hero one of the jobs that can only be achieved if all other Captain Heroes have retired or resigned?

Captain Hero is not a singular position, but there are practical limitations on how many superheroes occur. You can, however, achieve it via chance card from a lower-level position, so it's possible to sneak and create your own opening. But then, family sims are ungodly awful like that, given that most of their wants tend to involve destructive levels of spawn.

[Renatus]

Stories are more important me than getting OMG 100%, so I play kids - all sims, actually - like real people with personalities deeper than what the game can give them. They interact with other people, play with them, act out things appropriate for the story I'm building. It's like role-playing - and no, I don't mean the sort where one rule-lawyers as much as they can to get a munchkined character and argues over all bad dice rolls.

Not that I'd expect you to know what real people do, Pescado.

I'm definitely going to argue the point when someone complains about an aspect of the game not being realistic when it is realistic when one plays sims like people and not maxiumum efficiency automatons.

[J. M. Pescado]

Stories are more important me than getting OMG 100%, so I play kids - all sims, actually - like real people with personalities deeper than what the game can give them. They interact with other people, play with them, act out things appropriate for the story I'm building. It's like role-playing - and no, I don't mean the sort where one rule-lawyers as much as they can to get a munchkined character and argues over all bad dice rolls.

Hey, my sims do that, too. Observe all the cool things they do in my More Awesome Than Yours Neighborhood. Like fighting. Fighting is a very important activity because it builds up the all-important fighting skill. And this is why, even though it may seem to others that fighting is a purely pointless and destructive activity, to me, fighting practices an important skill. You've got your Cooking, Mechanical, Logic, Body, Charisma, Creativity Cleaning, and, of course, Fighting.

Not that I'd expect you to know what real people do, Pescado.

For some reason, you keep mentioning all these things I never do, then can't actually come up with a good reason why you bother to do these things or why they benefit you. I strongly suspect your lot in life would be better if you simply did what I told you to do, just like the sims do. Because I am more awesome than you.

I'm definitely going to argue the point when someone complains about an aspect of the game not being realistic when it is realistic when one plays sims like people and not maxiumum efficiency automatons.

My sims are not automatons, they just have highly effective leadership.

[jrd]

This is how I usually play:
-Babies I grow up immediately to toddlers: pregnancy lasts so long I've decided it includes this lifestage.
-Toddlers get assigned to the FFS eye in the sky.
-Children learn to know their relatives, make initial friends, and by letting them play autonomously some I find out what personality they're like. This lets me decide at teen age what aspiration to give them.
-The teen stage is the major skillbuilder, whenever there's time left. Teen age lasts forever anyway. At four days left, if a teen has rolled the want to go to college, the parents have the want, or I have just decided they will, the teen goes to college. If they aren't college material, I play out the remaining four days, thus the YA lifestage is taken from the teen lifecycle.
-Adults are the main gameplay.

The only lifestage I have little use for are elders. Unless the elders life with children, in which case they bring in income for the young parents or act as babysitters.


As fpr fighting: you're kidding when you say it's a skill, right? AFAIK only dance and pool are actual hidden skills. (And #of paintings is a counter, which makes me wonder why there is no "sell 100 masterpieces" LTW in the game.)

[J. M. Pescado]

-Children learn to know their relatives, make initial friends, and by letting them play autonomously some I find out what personality they're like. This lets me decide at teen age what aspiration to give them.

I just read their personaliy panel. There's not exactly a lot of things for kids to be doing anyway, and making initial friends as children is actually ineffective, because children are seriously lacking in any effective interactions and have difficulty conversing with anyone else. It is much more effective to attack the problem by phone from another lot to avoid using up your child's time, since the relatives probably have all the time in the world.

Also, there's the "smart milk effect" to consider: That 300% learn rate doesn't stay forever, and may be lost at anytime, and you'd best make as much use of it as you can before it fades for some reason.

Plus, children are the only stage where there's actually any pressure. Maximizing all skills as early as possible is the name of the game.

The only lifestage I have little use for are elders. Unless the elders life with children, in which case they bring in income for the young parents or act as babysitters.

That's largely because they've accomplished just about everything there is that's worth doing. They're extremely boring living there alone, so I always stuff them in so they can support the grandchildren. There's just not enough amusing elder-specific things to do, like complaining about those damn kids, the "In my day..." speech, and soforth.

As fpr fighting: you're kidding when you say it's a skill, right? AFAIK only dance and pool are actual hidden skills. (And #of paintings is a counter, which makes me wonder why there is no "sell 100 masterpieces" LTW in the game.)

The Fight Club uses the sim's record of fights to determine his combat experience bonus. Otherwise, no, it's not a skill by default, and thus was equally pointless, pretty much completely random, so there was no definitive measure of success, and thus before the Fight Club, I never actually had any fighting, although I certainly wanted to. However, my sense of practicality is amongst my more dominant traits, and you can be sure anything I undertake has a purpose to it.

[Renatus]

For some reason, you keep mentioning all these things I never do, then can't actually come up with a good reason why you bother to do these things or why they benefit you. I strongly suspect your lot in life would be better if you simply did what I told you to do, just like the sims do. Because I am more awesome than you.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you needed it spelled out in short words. I do these things (like have kids not always do their homework or not always be in a good mood or stay home when they are sick) because I think it is more realistic and that is more fun for me.

[J. M. Pescado]

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you needed it spelled out in short words. I do these things (like have kids not always do their homework or not always be in a good mood or stay home when they are sick) because I think it is more realistic and that is more fun for me.

Your parents just let you stay home when sick? Why, did the school make you do it, or did they dock your grades anyway? Because if I were you, I'd show up until they decide to grant you an exemption. You'd lose points for it otherwise. As for not doing the homeworks, remember that if you pile up more than 2, you start losing points for it. You have to consider whether the loss of points for doing so is worth the benefits you gain from the time you free up by doing this. In most cases, not really, because you tend to end up having to do them anyway...or have they stopped teaching people that procrastination is not a virtue and may be punishable by death?

[nectere]

So what is the purpose of building up a nonexistent fighting skill? What is its primary function and why? What is the end goal other than just for your personal amusement of watching girls beat the crap out of each other?

I feel like I am missing something. Then again, maybe I am not. Not that I am knocking the fight club or anything, I just don't understand the notion of developing a "skill" that serves no useful function or beneficial gain in a society such as the sims, other than to make enemies, which is fraught with more annoyances than amusements as I do not find enemies to be of any useful benefit.

[J. M. Pescado]

So what is the purpose of building up a nonexistent fighting skill? What is its primary function and why? What is the end goal other than just for your personal amusement of watching girls beat the crap out of each other?

The primary function of the fighting skill is to make the fighters more likely to win the fights. And also because fights make great screenshots. And it amuses me. But I am still efficient about it! There remains benefits to this course of action. As opposed to what Renatus is doing, which, as far as I can tell, amounts to doing nothing in the name of "realism", and I for one, am at a loss to comprehend how it is realistic or logical for a someone to simply deliberately choose to remain upset because he's hungry, needs to pee, stinky, etc., when the answer to the problem is right in front of him. It boggles the mind.

I feel like I am missing something. Then again, maybe I am not. Not that I am knocking the fight club or anything, I just don't understand the notion of developing a "skill" that serves no useful function or beneficial gain in a society such as the sims, other than to make enemies, which is fraught with more annoyances than amusements as I do not find enemies to be of any useful benefit.

There are annoyances to making enemies? I thought it was hilarious. Plus it's not even happening on company time most of the time. BlueSoup doesn't actually have that many fights while I'm playing, all the fights only happen when I'm not playing and she just visits.

And there *IS* a benefit to making enemies: Being enemies suppresses several behaviors, including the "drag home from work" action. If your sim hates that other sim, he's considerably less likely to befriend another pesky townie, which in turn becomes a maintenance drag weight. And is not at all entertaining, to boot.

[nectere]

I understand the fight club's intention to build the skill; I mean I don't understand the point of fighting in the first place. But now that you have explained that it's simply for your enjoyment, that simply enjoy watching sims fight over and over for no apparent gain benefit or reason…

And, I don't have townies so, not bringing them home is not an issue for me. All of my sims are created by me because I want them there.

We each have our own playing style and while I don't understand your continued enthusiasm at watching sims fight, as in turn you dont understand someone else's playing style because its not your own, there really isn't any difference, you have your way and others have theirs, it doesn't make it right or wrong. Whether you or I understand it or not.

[J. M. Pescado]

And, I don't have townies so, not bringing them home is not an issue for me. All of my sims are created by me because I want them there.

Yes, whereas my neighborhood dates from a time before we could reliably delete anyone, and has accumulated the bulk of all the added people Maxis feels we absolutely must have. Thus, I'm sort of stuck with them, and indeed, they provide a function: An outlet for my sims to be abusive when I am not playing them at the moment.

We each have our own playing style and while I don't understand your continued enthusiasm at watching sims fight, as in turn you dont understand someone else's playing style because its not your own, there really isn't any difference, you have your way and others have theirs, it doesn't make it right or wrong. Whether you or I understand it or not.

Well, not quite. See: My style has my sims engaging in some kind of action which is not harmful to their being, except when I intentionally torture sims, but when I torture sims, I still torture them efficiently, to extract the maximum amount of torture value from them. Renatus, on the other hand, seems to sit there and do absolutely nothing....and I honestly cannot grasp how this is entertaining, given that they don't *DO* anything. I guess some people have an interest in watching paint dry, I suppose.

[Renatus]

Pescado, I obviously haven't been using short enough words for you. It doesn't seem anyone else is having nearly so much trouble with reading comprehension (although do speak up if you are). I click, sims do things. This happens many times a minute. The isntructions often are not maximum efficiency behaviours, but are certainly what I want them to do at the time.


Pescado, were you born this dense or did you have to take lessons to acquire the skill?

[nectere]

You know what; I just realized I am in a highly argumentative mood today.

If a person wants to have their sims interact nicely with other sims or do some other role playing to full fill the players story line then so be it, it is not akin to watching paint dry simply because you see no value in their ideas or storyline.

I see no value in your fighting all your sims simply to make enemies so you don't have to bring some townie home, when generally that townie will now plague you with stolen newspapers (not that that matters much), kicked over trashcans, and interrupted outings etc. Whereas other people may have a storyline in mind and are developing a plot or character for that storyline, it doesn't make their ideas of game play any less valid simply because it's not the way you do things. Face it, you have your style that you enjoy and others have theirs.

Besides I thought you killed all the townies off by now with the cow plant. And…by the way, aren't you creating a lot of useless memories with all the peeing etc?