marriage and last names.

[Liss]

It used to be that when I had sims get married, the sim that proposed engagement and marriage kept their last name, whether they were male or female.  Now apparently my game has decided to be cheauvenistic.  The woman always takes the man's last name.  Anybody have a clue of a hack I may have that I don't know about that does this? Thanks.

[Katze]

You probably have J M Pescado's marriage-traditional hack installed they always take the males name.

[gali]

What's the problem? If the female propose marriage - the male gets her last name; if the male propose - the female gets his last name.
If the female clicks on the wedding arch ("get married") - the male gets her last name; if the male clicks on it - the female gets his last name.

JM hack causes that no matter who proposes the marriage - the female always will get the male's last name. Sometimes it's unconvenient to me, because some family has only daughters, and I need to keep  their legacy.

[Liss]

aha! That must be it.  I did want to keep female's last names for legacy purposes as well.  I will hunt that one down and take it out. Thanks for the help!

[LK]

WHAT?  Someone is temporarily unsatisfied with one of JM's hacks?  I would change your name, move to a new city, and dye your hair blue.  And don't EVER go to Montana.

[Liss]

ack! shhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[gali]

Oh my, Oh my - LOL...  - "mum" is the word....

[ZephyrZodiac]

What's wrong with the tradition in many Asian countries of both parties keeping their last name?  I believe in some cultures, female children take the mother's last name, male children take the father's.

Or also, there's the Spanish tradition of keeping both names.  Perhaps what's needed is an alternative hack which allows the player to choose the name, after all, the household name is already determined and may well be different from either party.

[witch]

For example, in Sikh culture, the male's lastname is Singh, the female's lastname is Kaur.

PS, offtopic; does anyone know whether there are any sim turbans around?

[J. M. Pescado]

Or also, there's the Spanish tradition of keeping both names.  Perhaps what's needed is an alternative hack which allows the player to choose the name, after all, the household name is already determined and may well be different from either party.

I recall that as a result, Spanish names get incredibly unwieldy until they're finally truncated for usability. The same problem obviously manifests itself with the new practice of hyphenated names (which I consider to be an abomination!).

Unfortunately, the marriage naming thing is buried sufficiently deeply that it's not practically feasible to go about making a dialog for it. Furthermore, when it comes to determining baby last names, this always defaults to the mother's last name, and messing with that will probably stomp on some more toes. All in all, it's either the inconsistency of it always being the controllable sim's name, the playing the move-in/move-out game (generating a ton of garbage memories and breaking "marry a rich sim"), or the consistency imposed by installing this hack. Up to you.

[gali]

Exuse me, be all of you are out of the point....

The point is - if I play a family which has only daughters, with JM hack I actually DELETE this family name and can't continue the legacy of it, because the girl will get her husband's last name. Only if I have a boy - I can keep the legacy. And if I don't? What I have to do then? Perish the family?

It has nothing to do with the real world (traditional or not). If I choose to play a family, I want at least one of it's kids to continue the legacy.

I want to have the option to decide which will be the last name.

For instance - Lilith and Angela are the only daughters of Pleasant family. If they marry (doesn't matter whom) and get their husband's name (usual Dreamer and Broke) - I perished the Pleasant family legacy, period!

So, as Brandi Broke has many sons, I give Angela to marry Dustin, and he will be Dustin Pleasant - and Beau can marry some other girl, and give her his family name (Broke).
Thus I keep both families' legacy.

The JM hack needs an option of exception, and it hasn't - that's why it's not convenient for me sometimes. "Nothing personal - strictly business"....

[J. M. Pescado]

The point is - if I play a family which has only daughters, with JM hack I actually DELETE this family name and can't continue the legacy of it, because the girl will get her husband's last name. Only if I have a boy - I can keep the legacy. And if I don't? What I have to do then? Perish the family?

I think you're confusing the continuation of the name with the bloodline. Like in the real world, this happens. When people become very concerned about this, there's a certain bias towards a male heir.

For instance - Lilith and Angela are the only daughters of Pleasant family. If they marry (doesn't matter whom) and get their husband's name (usual Dreamer and Broke) - I perished the Pleasant family legacy, period!

That depends on how you define "perished the Pleasant family legacy". Unless the house is abandoned entirely, there's still going to be a "Pleasant Family" listed, even if nobody shares that name anymore. For instance, in my neighborhood, there's still a Pleasant family, even though there are now no living sims by that name. The legacy continues.

So, as Brandi Broke has many sons, I give Angela to marry Dustin, and he will be Dustin Pleasant - and Beau can marry some other girl, and give her his family name (Broke).
Thus I keep both families' legacy.

Ironically and sadistically, in the next geenration, there isn't going to be an actual "Broke" family name either, since none of Brandi's 3 boys has managed to produce any male heir. Oh, the luck and the irony.

And actually, there *IS* a way to preserve a name with the aforementioned hack in place: As I mentioned before, babies always take the mother's last name at time of birth. If the baby is born BEFORE they are married, the child will then carry the name. For instance, in the above case: if Dustin pollinates Angela, who gives birth before the actual marriage, or one never occurs, you'll have a new baby with the Pleasant name.

[ZephyrZodiac]

Ironically and sadistically, in the next geenration, there isn't going to be an actual "Broke" family name either, since none of Brandi's 3 boys has managed to produce any male heir. Oh, the luck and the irony.

That may be so in your game, but both Dustin and Beau always manage to produce sons in mine - but they don't usually marry Maxis sims.  On the one occasion when Dustin married a Pleasant, he married Lilith, not Angela, and they had a son.

The only Broke in my game who consistently has daughters is the youngest, Keanu, and he has never married an existing Maxis sim, but frequently ends up in a gay relationship.

[gali]

"And actually, there *IS* a way to preserve a name with the aforementioned hack in place: As I mentioned before, babies always take the mother's last name at time of birth. If the baby is born BEFORE they are married, the child will then carry the name. For instance, in the above case: if Dustin pollinates Angela, who gives birth before the actual marriage, or one never occurs, you'll have a new baby with the Pleasant name." (JM)

Lol, now I AM the traditional one.... I don't permit any couple of mine to woohoo,  if they are not engaged first, not to speak about having a baby before marriage....
 
I permit it only to Romance males,  without having any other alternative for them - but I have never had a baby if the parents are not married, even the Romance sims - I just force them to marry, even if they pay a lot of aspiration points.

Well, I am on your side now - traditional?....

[ZephyrZodiac]

Why not the romance females - they have the same LTWs and Wants - not just traditional but mysogynist to boot!

[witch]

Until I started following this thread I didn't even realise I played matrilineal n'hoods. I've never understood why people keep getting concerned over their sims names, my kids are named after their mother, end of story. Sometimes sims will get married in my game, but very rarely.

In real life I think the practice of hyphenating names is idiotic, you've only got to look one generation down to see what happens when two hyphenated names get together. I don't believe my last name was a holy gift from God, in fact I changed both my names, first and last, by deedpoll a dozen years ago purely because I didn't like my original names.

Sidenote: My son was about 11 when I changed my name. I asked him if he would like to change his last name to his father's one, or my new one or did he have any other ideas. He said he'd think about it. A couple of days later he said he'd decided. I asked what he would like to be named. 'Darth Vader' he said.   

[ZephyrZodiac]

Original!

[Liss]

hehehe....sounds like something my son would do.

I wasn't really distressed when I started this thread, was just wondering what was going on.  In one of my hoods I recreated the Mayfair witches (Anne Rice) and they always keep their own last name or they don't inherit anything.  I think the traditional marriage hack is actually a neat idea, at least more realistic.  I just didn't know it existed.  I just put my trust in JMP and installed the whole MATY zip.  I have since taken that particular mod out though  

I am just happy that my game works now, even with my monster, character-crowded hoods.

[SimsHost]

Or also, there's the Spanish tradition of keeping both names.  Perhaps what's needed is an alternative hack which allows the player to choose the name, after all, the household name is already determined and may well be different from either party.

I recall that as a result, Spanish names get incredibly unwieldy until they're finally truncated for usability. The same problem obviously manifests itself with the new practice of hyphenated names (which I consider to be an abomination!).
...

Spanish children's names are built using fathers_surname y mothers_surname.  For instance, Juan de Gomez y Andara would have a father named Gomez and a mother named Andara.  Never call him Mr. Andara unless you want a black eye, because that implies he doesn't know who his father is.  It's perfectly OK to call him Mr. Gomez.

Now, when Juan de Gomez y Andara marries Carlita de Pratz y Edda, their son's name takes each of the parents' father's surnames, such as Paco de Gomez y Pratz.  So even in Spanish names, the patrilineal heritage is maintained.


And yeah, what you said about hyphens.

[ZephyrZodiac]

It actually makes sense even today to use the father's surname for the child.  After all, the child has to have one of it's parent's last names and using the father's shows, in a sense, that the father has recognised his obligations to the child!  And the child of unmarried parents needs this acknowledgement even more since there is no other way a father can show to the world that the child is his if the parents choose not to marry for whatever reason.  Incidentally, by registering the birth in the father's name shows that, if the relationship breaks down, the mother has also accepted that the father is the fathre, which then gives the father some rights too. 

Hey, I'm getting caught up here in a tangle of probably very dodgy reasoning.  I'll shut up!

[dizzy]

In Japan, IIRC, it's traditional to take the family name that has more prestige. Male/female is unimportant.

[J. M. Pescado]

In Japan, IIRC, it's traditional to take the family name that has more prestige. Male/female is unimportant.

Great, now there's a possibility. Now if you can just find a systematic way that defines the prestige of a family, we're all set.

[ZephyrZodiac]

I suppose you could choose whichever parent is furthest up their career ladder?

[J. M. Pescado]

I suppose you could choose whichever parent is furthest up their career ladder?

There's a thought: Cumulate all of the ancestral parents' current and retired career levels on a weighted scale. The family with the most points is thus the most prestigious.

[Ness]

would different careers need to be weighted differently?  I don't have many sims that die (or even have children for that matter) before they reach the top of their career ladder...

Ness