Lotpackager

[cwykes]

Is it possible to make a new or hacked version of lotpackager that allows you to export clean lots with sims? 
We've always known that lotpackager is responsible for "pirated" content and hacks included in lots on the exchange and more of us now realise it is actually responsible for exploding neighbourhoods.  How hard is it for Maxis or any awesome person to fix?

In my ideal world, lotpackager should:
1. only take the exact version of an item that is actually used in the lot - not all of the unused recolours

2. include all the meshes etc of Sims included in the package

3. delete the sims' relationships to all sims not on the lot so they don't take an extra character file for every sim they know
(relationships to dead sims should probably stay especially if they have a grave on the lot)

4. lobotomise the sims' memories so they don't remember anything or anyone from the old hood. Partially would be ideal, but completely would be OK.  Ideally keep the memories of skill gain, careers etc etc plus memories of relationships with sims on the same lot, but delete all gossip and all memories of unknown or about to become unknown sims.

5. take the wants and fears history into the new hood so that sims still roll appropriate wants e.g. forune sims still want to paint that 6th masterpiece rather than gain a skill point

6. exclude all hacks.

7. give you a dialog showing what is in the package with options to uncheck stuff before finalising.

When you move a lot with sims into the lots bin - is that lotpackager creating dummy sims? Anyway that needs fixing too!

[virgali]

Uhm..I'm not sure about this... Since they already came up with the clean installer and the content manager, I doubt anybody would be interested into fixing the packager???

Well I guess we'll have to sit back and wait...

[ZephyrZodiac]

Simply package your lot in the normal way to a file, then install it with the clean Installer.  If you want to send it to the exchange and this is your problem, then install it in a vanilla game and with the Clean Installer and package it to the Exchange from there.

[cwykes]

Cleaninstaller doesn't clean the files out properly.  You can delete the extra character files easily enough, but that means you are exporting sims with memories of unknown sims as well as all the gossip owned by unknown sims that they picked up in the old hood.  So yes cleaninstaller can delete the extra character files, but it still leaves a mess in memories.  And yes you can clear out the unused custom content, but it's tedious when you have as much as I have - how do you remember which recolour you used on the counters - never mind work out which file name it has.  It's tedious and you shouldn't have to do it!

I've been cleaning up families for the MATY 'hood so I think I know what I'm doing with this now.  The other problem I had was lotpackager not picking up the all the mesh files.  That meant I couldn't send several families because I didn't remember what I'd used and I couldn't face an exhaustive search for them on top of the memory cleanup.

The other point in there is about the wants and fears being reset so they don't match the memories and previous life of the sim.  I got really ticked off when my fortune masterpiece painting sim didn't roll any more masterpiece wants and my romance couple stopped rolling wants for each other after the move.  It's the mismatch that is a real pain!  If they forgot everything, then the 0 wants and fears would be OK...

If it's not hard to do, Maxis ought to damn well fix the package.  I couldn't tell you how many simmers I've explained to that they got the phone hack on the exchange and that they are "pirating" other people's content when they put a lot up there.  Actually I think they should do it anyway!  It causes so much trouble!

[Myth]

You can do most all the things you asked for on your own with just a little work.  Instead of taking your whole downloads folder out of the Sims 2 folder you can:

1.  Disable object recolors, objects and hacks with the Clean Installer

2. & 3.  From CAS get the Sims that you want in the house and move them in (if the money is an issue move them to a blank lot long enough to adjust their funds and then move them back to the Sim bin)  Doing it this way will be assured that they have no broken memories.  If you want them to have certain jobs etc. you can edit those with debug mode.

4. Would require editting memories with SimPE before uploading.

5.  Same as #4

6.  Same as #1

7.  Not necessary if you have made a clean lot from the beginning.

[angelyne]

Myth, There is no easy way to do what cwykes is asking.  Importing an existing family amounts to dropping a time-delay nuke in your neighbourhood. 

The cleanest way to import a family is to create a copy of your sims through Sims surgery and then recreate them with CAS and modifying them with SimPE.  Even then it won't be exactly the same character as Cwykes mentioned, like a clone of a person. Looks the same but isn't the same.

What I did in the past, and gave up because it was just too long, was to export the family to a new blank neighbourhood.  Delete all relationships and memories of other sims manually and then repackage the file until there are no other "extra" character included.

What I am doing now is before I actually play a family, I put them on a empty lot and then package them.  This way if I ever want to use them in a different neighbourhood, I'll be able to.  It's rather limited, as it won't include the children born in the game or all the things the sims have accomplished but until this problem is fixed, it's the best I can do.

[ZephyrZodiac]

Editing in SimPE could be used to remove all non-family related memories, and all non family relationships.

Or, having cloned your sims, you can copy every bit of their personality, interests etc. into the clone's data, change the voice to the original, and there will be little or no difference to your original sim.  Maxis sims tend to change a bit, I think because they have hidden "extras", for example, put the cloned Pleasant family into a new neighbourhood and let them start from scratch, there will be no sibling rivalry between the girls, they'll start off with a few plus points like any other CAS siblings, and with a bit of effort you can soon make them friends.

[Kristalrose]

I agree that it should be easier.  Yes, if someone has plenty of time on their hands, they can fire up the clean installer or SimsPE and do everything that has been suggested her.  Or, if they have a good computer with plenty of memory and RAM, they can create a new log-in with XP, create a "Vanillia" neighborhood, and package the lot from there.  Or, if they have enough computer knowledge, they can take the download folder out of the Sims 2 Folder, run the game, create their lot with new sims, and then package the lot and send to the Exchange. 

But, to be fair, not everyone has Windows XP, plenty of RAM, the computer knowledge to move files around, or the time to do all of that.  My problem is time.  I have the computer, I have the knowledge.  But, I get to play TS2 about three nights a week, and only about 2 hours at a time.  I just don't have that luxury.

It is sad that the lot packager does not just function as advertised.  You build a lot, create a family, package JUST THE FILES THAT YOU INTEND TO PACKAGE, and send it on it's way to the Exchange.  I understand that this is not something that the average person here on this board would value.  Everyone here seems to be highly intelligent, have plenty of time to invest in creating custom content, and higher-end comptuers.  But there are many of us who would would value this fix very much.  And I think that Maxis would be happier with it as well.  I'm sure that they would not have to micro-manage the Exchange and cull the lots so often if every lot was uploaded with only the files intended. 

[qvcatullus]

I agree that the lotpackager is really, really dumb. I think we all agree that the lotpackager is really, really dumb. That's why things like cleaninstaller exist, and even then, we can all agree, as, ironically, one of the disagree-ers above did, that you're still putting a time bomb in the neighborhood when you import a family. So instead, we mess around with cleaninstaller and simPE (both of which, of course, are user-made products), and even then it's time-consuming and dangerous for those who aren't really sure what they're doing. All of this to do something that is SUPPOSED TO BE A FEATURE OF THE GAME. As advertised, we are supposed to be able to move our sims between neighborhoods via lots or the exchange, and we can't, because the packaging tool was poorly designed. And not everyone who plays the Sims knows this, as a quick trip to the 'Hacks are the devil' threads on the BBS will make clear.
I think that the proposed changes to the lotpackager would fix a great deal with the game. I certainly can't begin to imagine how to make them; I don't even trust myself to prune memories etc. with simPE. I wish I didn't have to. I am disappointed that Maxis has not already made these suggested (and might I even say COMPLETELY OBVIOUS to anyone who is, say, working on improving this game so that they could, oh, charge us for another expansion pack?) changes to an important part of the game. Certainly not surprised, but still disappointed.

[angelyne]

I didn't realize I was dis-agreeing lol.

Anyway, just how widespread is this knowledge about the dangers of importing family lots? I know that I learned it from one of Pescado's post.  I suspect that the majority of players have no clue of this, as it looks like it works.  And unless you actually load up SimPE and take a look at the result chaos, or notice that your character files have suddenly tripled in size, you'll never know or suspect.

Maybe we ought to make more noise about this, create big scary threads on the exchange so that Maxis sits up and notice.  I don't even know if they are working on this problem.

[Sagana]

Maybe we ought to make more noise about this, create big scary threads on the exchange so that Maxis sits up and notice.  I don't even know if they are working on this problem.

Not likely. I mean, people here directly and specifically told Maxoid Tom that terrain paints are broke (and the work of the devil). Notice what fix *didn't* make it? Yeah, terrain paints are still broke and the work of the devil incarnate. I very much suspect they're not at all likely to fix the sim/lot packager. :p

[ZephyrZodiac]

Sagana, i couldn't agree more!  The answer for anyone who doesn't know what they're doing with Clean Installer and simPE is simple, don't upload anything until you've learned.  Uploading empty lots is straightforward, CleanInstaller will remove everything and leave the lot segment alone.  Uploading inhabited lots poses a threat to the game of everyone who downloads it.

As to the problems of running a vanilla game, Inge's solution works fine for me. 

1. Rename you Game folder to The Sims 2 Play

2. Load your game and let it generate a new Sims 2 folder

3. Create a new neighbourhood.  I call mine "Building Site"

4. If you wish, when you've closed your game you can delete the 3 Maxis hoods.

5. Rename this Folder to TheSims2 Build

6. Now Rename the play folder to it's original name.

7. Go into your game and package any lots you want.

8. Later, move the packages from Packaged Lots in the  Play folder to Packaged
    Lots in the Build folder (you may have to make your own.

9. Rename the Play folder to *** Play

10 Rename your Build folder to The Sims 2

11.Use Clean Installer to install your lots.

12. Since you have no Downloads folder in this Folder, you won't get any
      downloads when you load your game.

It really isn't time-consuming once you've set it up, renaming the files is a matter of a minute, two at most. 

This method, since it only includes Maxis content, is far better to my mind as there is no risk of using custom content which the creator has specifically said they don't want distributed via the Exchange.  If your house is unusual, or well-made enough, that should satisfy people, and they should be able to see the potential for using their own custom content anyway.

[angelyne]

Or for people who are scared about fiddling with files and happen to use XP, they can create a new user and call it something like "vanilla houses" and use that to build their houses.  It's fool proof.  Although I suspect this advice is better suited for the exchange, as everyone here seems computer savy.

I'm very disappointed with Maxis, maybe not surprised but disappointed.  Makes me ever so thankful for the modders here and elsewhere.  Imagine if we had to reply on Maxis for correcting all the bugs the Modders have corrected.  We would probably have given up on the game long ago.

[ZephyrZodiac]

What really bugs me most is, when I played sims 1 and my game crashed, it was almost always an ID conflict with downloads that caused the crash, and not the game itself!  Now, it's rare to get a problem of that sort with Downloads but common to get the crashes etc. with things that are supposed to work as part of the game!  And let's face it, custom terrains, as an example, were intended to be made by simmers, they even gave us a programme to make them with!

[cwykes]

Thankyou for understanding my point - we shouldn't have to do all this work if we want to move sims around and newbies shouldn't get timebombs when they download lots or move sims on lots to another 'hood.  The simplest thing maxis could do to fix that would be to lobotomise sims moving - they know how to do that because they lobotomise townies when you ask them to move in.  Yes you'd lose a lot of the Sim personality, but you wouldn't get the timebomb.  How do you all feel about the lobotomy idea? - want a poll?

You can do most all the things you asked for on your own with just a little work.  Instead of taking your whole downloads folder out of the Sims 2 folder you can:

1.  Disable object recolors, objects and hacks with the Clean Installer

If you don't have them all enabled at the moment and want to get back to exactly where you were, moving the folder out is better.  Also you have to kick off cleaninstaller and load up all the downloads to disable them.  When you have a lot of them, that takes ages, so moving the whole folder is quicker.
Re my original desire - If you disable everything, you don't get the recolours you actually used in the house that should be in the file.

2. & 3.  From CAS get the Sims that you want in the house and move them in (if the money is an issue move them to a blank lot long enough to adjust their funds and then move them back to the Sim bin)  Doing it this way will be assured that they have no broken memories.  If you want them to have certain jobs etc. you can edit those with debug mode.

How does this help you find the meshes you used in CAS to create these sims? (my point 2).  I don't know what mesh I used to make these sims a month or 2 ago.  When I put a family in a package, I expect them to have everything they need to come out of the package looking just the way they did when they went in.  They don't because lotpackager doesn't find all the files - I read somewhere here that it misses the meshes.

Uhm..I'm not sure about this... Since they already came up with the clean installer and the content manager, I doubt anybody would be interested into fixing the packager???

Maxis didn't come up with cleaninstaller - that's made by users.  Both of these help you fix things that shouldn't be wrong in the first place!

Is there another patch coming with OFB?- how do we ask or agitate for one.  Apart from terrain paints, there's homecrafter not working without Uni and ... well, your list is probably longer than mine....

[ZephyrZodiac]

I suppose what is needed is a petition where we all inform Maxis that we will only buy OFB if these issues are dealt with!  If it was sent officially from MATY with hundreds of signatures, perhaps they'd take a bit of notice?

[qvcatullus]

I suppose what is needed is a petition where we all inform Maxis that we will only buy OFB if these issues are dealt with!  If it was sent officially from MATY with hundreds of signatures, perhaps they'd take a bit of notice?

Eh, I don't have much faith in Maxis, but if there's someone who has dealt with them who thinks such a petition would work, I'd be happy to join in. Fight the power!

[Sagana]

weeelll... I guess it'd require a lot of customers that want a working lot packager more than OFB and... to be honest... for me, it's the other way around. OFB is the EP that appeals to me the most.

Now if you get a time traveler working and wanna boycott Uni I'm with you all the way (I hate that EP and didn't even like the sound of it before it showed).

[cwykes]

It depends how easy it is to fix lotpackager doesn't it.  I guess the custom content bits are hard because Maxis have known about the problems this causes on the exchange for a long time and surely would have fixed this aspect if it was easy.  On the other hand Maxis may not even realise there is a timebomb with the character files and memories.   I would rather have OFB than a new lot packager - but I'd swap it for Uni any day (I hated the Uni idea so much I didn't buy it at all!)  I'd vote for lobotomising sims rather than exporting trouble.   I'm guessing a complete lobotomy would be pretty easy. If it is then some sort of poll or petition has a point.  If MaxoidTom comes back here again we put it to him.

[cwykes]

I now think more things are being reset to zero than I had realised and it's a pain in the neck.  I already noted that the wants history has all been reset to zero in the new hood, but yesterday I noticed that the kids were all younger than I thought they should be!  That means if you package a lot with a baby just about to become a toddler, you get another 3 days of babyhood!  It also means your kids turn into fraternal twins and age on the same day!

  I'm wondering what else has got reset to zero that I missed. 

[Ellatrue]

Uhm..I'm not sure about this... Since they already came up with the clean installer and the content manager, I doubt anybody would be interested into fixing the packager???

Well I guess we'll have to sit back and wait...

Yes, but if you upload to the exchange instead of packaging to a file, then there is no way to clean it before it goes to the website- and then you are responsible for destroying people's games, not to mention all of the creators that will suddenly hate you for accidentally uploading their stuff, because the exchange only keeps track of who uploaded something to the exchange site first (not who created it, or anything else). Not to mention the fact that the file size is huge.

I really wish they would fix the packager, too, so that it supports objects, recolors, and hacks- and doesn't upload those that you aren't using, as it does with clothing and bodyshop items, which are properly supported.


I wouldn't mind all the age data getting reset, etc, because people who download a family aren't going to care anyway. I don't think we need to say that we won't buy OFB, because if you ask me, it sounds really whiny- I think getting hundreds of signatures from non-retardolanders would be enough. They are a business, and they do want to keep their customers happy, if they know what is important to them. Based on the fact that they seem to have made some sort of attempt to fix the terrain paint issues in the most recent patch, they do actually listen.

[ZephyrZodiac]

If you want to upload a file to the exchange via the clean installer and then lotpackager, it's worth creating a vanilla hood to install your lot to.

Package your lot to a file. Exit your game.

Rename your Sims2 folder to Sims2 Play.

Restart your game and a new set of game folders will be created, with no custom content whatsoever.

Make a custom hood for building only, then close your game.

Use Clean Installer to install your lot to the game, and then start your game again.  Place your house in the hood and enter it.  Redecorate where necessary, remove and replace any originally non-maxis objects that show the wrong info when you click on them.

When you're completely satisfied that the lot is clean, move it to the bin.  Place it back in the hood again, just to be certain it isn't going to crash, and then you can upload it without any more problems.

If you want to keep some custom content, then you can always put stuff that is file-share-friendly into that installation and use that.

When you want to return to your original game, just rename the Sims2 folder to Sims2 Build, and then the Sims2Play folder to Sims2.  (Credit to Inge for this trick.)