Maxis agrees with Laurenke

[Oddysey]

Dunno about eyes, but I know that in many parts of the world young children have lighter skin and hair than they do as adults. It's a signal for youthfulness. Interestingly, there's a theory that the oft-remarked upon preference towards blondes in Europe and North America is actual a preference towards lighter, and thus more youthful, skin. And in women, skin color varies with one's fertility cycle, with (I think) the lightest skin color corresponding to peak fertility, the darkest skin color corresponding to one's period.

Also, "Western" beauty preferences seem to be shifting towards somewhat darker skin and hair, and more African/Asian mixed features, reflecting new demographic norms. Check out beauty magazines and models. I don't think the research is definitive yet, but it's an interesting possibility.

Ah, the science of beauty, and sexual selection. A most fascinating topic.

[J. M. Pescado]

Dunno about eyes, but I know that in many parts of the world young children have lighter skin and hair than they do as adults. It's a signal for youthfulness. Interestingly, there's a theory that the oft-remarked upon preference towards blondes in Europe and North America is actual a preference towards lighter, and thus more youthful, skin. And in women, skin color varies with one's fertility cycle, with (I think) the lightest skin color corresponding to peak fertility, the darkest skin color corresponding to one's period.

Also, "Western" beauty preferences seem to be shifting towards somewhat darker skin and hair, and more African/Asian mixed features, reflecting new demographic norms. Check out beauty magazines and models. I don't think the research is definitive yet, but it's an interesting possibility.

Ah, the science of beauty, and sexual selection. A most fascinating topic.

Yes. Then there's the project where they amalgamated poll results to produce what was supposedly the "ideal" face.

Predictably, the resulting face was really quite bland and not at all appealing, like a pizza ordered by too many people.

As for the preferences shift, I theorize that it's actually a built-in thing for the "exotic". Whatever is "exotic" is in. This may partly be a defensive mechanism to prevent inbreeding.

[Oddysey]

I haven't heard about the poll results--at least specifically, as I can think of something that might fit it, but I haven't been able to find it, since all the links are dead--but I do know that when you blend a group of faces into one faces, the result is usually surprisingly attractive, since the various flaws even each other out. However, conscious selection often produces sub-desirable results, since there tends to be a gap between what people think they want and what they actually want, especially in the case of something like beauty.

Truly *beautiful* faces, however, almost always vary from the standard norm in some way or another, which is why extremely good looking people usually have rather exotic or striking features.

EDIT: If anyone's really interested in this stuff, I recommend "Why Is Sex Fun?" by Jared Diamond, and any books he references. It's all about sexual selection, specifically, what sexually selective forces have drive the human sex life to be so weird in comparison to other animals, including our closest genetic relatives. Gender roles, beauty, it's all in there. Very good book.

[ZephyrZodiac]

And pure, classical beauty (as defined by 19th C artists etc.) so often lacks character!

[J. M. Pescado]

However, conscious selection often produces sub-desirable results, since there tends to be a gap between what people think they want and what they actually want, especially in the case of something like beauty.

I've noticed people seem very conflicted in this regard. I, myself, lack this dichotomy, being that I am incapable of perceiving beauty without thought. Things don't jump out at me as "pretty" unless I think about it. Unless that something is pyrotechnical in nature. That's one of the few things that jumps out at me as "OOOH!".

Truly *beautiful* faces, however, almost always vary from the standard norm in some way or another, which is why extremely good looking people usually have rather exotic or striking features.

I can definitely agree with that one. People who look like can and will punch you in the face are definitely very striking, and even more so if they actually do it. I personally favor things like angry eyebrows and sharp teeth. Because those are always very striking.

[Oddysey]

That's because you're a guy, Pescado.

And ZZ: That's another thing. The classical definition of beauty, with the emphasis on proportions and mathematical perfection, really has very little basis in reality. The main reason that the golden ration shows up so much in the human face is because there are so many ratios in the human face to begin with. Although there is an instinctual definition of beauty, (day old infants watch pictures of "attractive" faces longer than they do pictures of "unnattractive" faces) it's not nearly so hardcoded and definite as was once believed.

[ZephyrZodiac]

I'd certainly agree that physical perfection and Sex Appeal have very little in common!  While on person may be born lucky and have both, there are endless examples of people who have one and not the other.  Very few male rock stars, for example, are what would fall into classical definitions of male beauty, but thousands of women would give their eye teeth to get them into their knickers!

[J. M. Pescado]

That's because you're a guy, Pescado.

That is totally not an adequate explanation, especially since most of the other "guys" think that because I can look upon a picture of some female they deem to be "hot" and be utterly unmoved and unimpressed, I must be gay.

And ZZ: That's another thing. The classical definition of beauty, with the emphasis on proportions and mathematical perfection, really has very little basis in reality.

I'm not entirely sure that's true. I think that proportions and mathematical perfection are important factors, but that they're using the wrong numbers, and assuming that numbers which are actually individually specific variables are constants.

The main reason that the golden ration shows up so much in the human face is because there are so many ratios in the human face to begin with.

I think the "golden ratio" is just some arbitrary thing people made up, anyway. It has very little to do with faces. Clearly, an attractive face is one that displays a prominent cranium, and an alert, focussed expression indicative of intelligence and awareness. Preferrably an ANGRY expression, as anyone who appears to be happy is obviously severely deluding themselves about something, and while delusional perceptions of reality are amusing in friends, they are unsuitable in a mate.

Although there is an instinctual definition of beauty, (day old infants watch pictures of "attractive" faces longer than they do pictures of "unnattractive" faces) it's not nearly so hardcoded and definite as was once believed.

I'm wondering if this is due to the "Exotic" factor. After all, "exotic" is "beautiful", and when an infant sees something strange and foreign to it, it may simply fixate on the strangeness. I mean, day old infants will also watch fires longer than they watch ANY face. Is this because fire is pretty and an infant which does this is destinated to be a pyromaniac like me, or is it because fires are new and different?

[reggikko]

I'm wondering if this is due to the "Exotic" factor. After all, "exotic" is "beautiful", and when an infant sees something strange and foreign to it, it may simply fixate on the strangeness. I mean, day old infants will also watch fires longer than they watch ANY face. Is this because fire is pretty and an infant which does this is destinated to be a pyromaniac like me, or is it because fires are new and different?

Infants and children are also apparently drawn to symmetrical faces. I think you see more symmetry in "exotic" faces than you do in the Ango-Saxon variety. I had never thought too much about my innate ability to attract infants and toddlers. They always stare at me for a bit and then innevitably they smile or otherwise try their baby 'flirting'. A fussy baby almost always settles down when I talk to it. I always thought I was just some natural-born baby whisperer. My son the artist mentioned in passing the other day that I have a very symmetrical face. That would be one explanation for my baby magic, I suppose.

[Sandilou]

J. M. Pescado

As for the preferences shift, I theorize that it's actually a built-in thing for the "exotic". Whatever is "exotic" is in. This may partly be a defensive mechanism to prevent inbreeding.

I had this explained to me as an example of 'survival of the fittest'  Theoretically, the wider the gene pool, the stronger the species. 

ZZ

Although there is an instinctual definition of beauty, (day old infants watch pictures of "attractive" faces longer than they do pictures of "unnattractive" faces) it's not nearly so hardcoded and definite as was once believed.

I learn so much from Sky News...there was a feature on babies being instinctively drawn to symmetrical faces.  The question raised was 'Is it a true definition of beauty?'  Turned on its head, it means asymetrical faces (twisted, warped and crooked) are ugly.  I wonder how much they were paid to come up with those findings.

J. M. Pescado

Clearly, an attractive face is one that displays a prominent cranium, and an alert, focussed expression indicative of intelligence and awareness.

That's what all the less than beautiful people would have us believe. 

J. M. Pescado

I can look upon a picture of some female they deem to be "hot" and be utterly unmoved and unimpressed, I must be gay.

You mucho too macho to be gay.

Reggikko

Infants and children are also apparently drawn to symmetrical faces. I think you see more symmetry in "exotic" faces than you do in the Ango-Saxon variety. I had never thought too much about my innate ability to attract infants and toddlers.

I have the same impact on babies, toddlers, children and animals.  Even the wildest animals seem to calm down in my presence.  On my recent visit to Wales the sheep came over to talk to me - and I wasn't over at the BBS, the horses and cows sought eye contact too! 

[J. M. Pescado]

Infants and children are also apparently drawn to symmetrical faces. I think you see more symmetry in "exotic" faces than you do in the Ango-Saxon variety. I had never thought too much about my innate ability to attract infants and toddlers. They always stare at me for a bit and then innevitably they smile or otherwise try their baby 'flirting'. A fussy baby almost always settles down when I talk to it. I always thought I was just some natural-born baby whisperer. My son the artist mentioned in passing the other day that I have a very symmetrical face. That would be one explanation for my baby magic, I suppose.

Sucks to be you. Me, I also *HAD* a very symmetrical face, but it has since sustained a great deal of battle damage. However, after I was about 12, babies never reacted positively to me. If I so much as looked at it, it would scream, and if I glared at it, it would soil itself. Except my cousins. They'd react with excitement and try to pull my nose, bite my ankles, and then try to rip my leg off unless I clubbed them with something repeatedly, which, while successful in repelling them from my person, generally caused them to switch to bombardment with thrown objects. I'm told I was the same way. It seems to be a family thing.

In any case, now I produce the same effect on children. They are first drawn closer for some bizarre reason, and when they get close enough to be irritating and I glare at them, they scream, soil themselves, and flee in terror.

[ZephyrZodiac]

I always find babies and toddlers are fascinated by people who wear glasses!

[SimsHost]

Then there's the project where they amalgamated poll results to produce what was supposedly the "ideal" face.

I saw that one.  My impression was that her eyes were too wide-set, her face was vertically squished, and her chin was too small.

So, who would you think of as extremely attractive women among celebrities we might know about?  (Personalities and abilities don't count here, just appearance.)

Off hand, I'd say, at their peak of youth and beauty: Maureen O'Sullivan, Grace Kelly, Catherine Deneuve, and Rose McGowan rank right up there.

[gali]

I think Aristotle was the first one who made the definition that *symmetry*  is the sign of beauty and order, and *assymetry*  is the sign of disorder and uglyness....

...Now check yoursef who are you....

 

[J. M. Pescado]

So, who would you think of as extremely attractive women among celebrities we might know about?  (Personalities and abilities don't count here, just appearance.)

Nobody, really. I don't know of many celebrities, and the ones people show to me don't really attract me. I'm known for consistently handing out ratings no higher than "Meh". As a result, I'm occasionally accused of being gay. They all look too plasticky for my tastes.

[reggikko]

So, who would you think of as extremely attractive women among celebrities we might know about?  (Personalities and abilities don't count here, just appearance.)

Off hand, I'd say, at their peak of youth and beauty: Maureen O'Sullivan, Grace Kelly, Catherine Deneuve, and Rose McGowan rank right up there.

I'll agree with those and add Vivien Leigh. Also, of more recent candidates, Angelina Jolie, Salma Hayak, Isabella Rosselini, Uma Thurman, and Reese Witherspoon.

[veilchen]

Nobody, really. I don't know of many celebrities, and the ones people show to me don't really attract me. I'm known for consistently handing out ratings no higher than "Meh". As a result, I'm occasionally accused of being gay. They all look too plasticky for my tastes.

I agree, and that goes for most of the celebrity males as well. I always get the feeling I'm dealing with empty packages there, and who wants an empty package?

My favorite actress is Myrna Loy, by the way. I think she is (was?) funny, witty, warm, and intelligent. She was (I don't know if she's still alive, I don't watch many movies or television, nor do I read any entertainment rags) also very pretty in my opinion.

G.

[ZephyrZodiac]

I always felt Judy Garland had more personality per square inch than almost everyone else!

[cwieberdink]

So, who would you think of as extremely attractive women among celebrities we might know about?  (Personalities and abilities don't count here, just appearance.)

Off hand, I'd say, at their peak of youth and beauty: Maureen O'Sullivan, Grace Kelly, Catherine Deneuve, and Rose McGowan rank right up there.

Angelina Jolie is my secret crush ("hey" to everyone from the beaches of Lake Michigan) and I had a nice dream about Vin Diesel last night.   

[DuckSpeak]

So, who would you think of as extremely attractive women among celebrities we might know about?  (Personalities and abilities don't count here, just appearance.)

Nobody, really. I don't know of many celebrities, and the ones people show to me don't really attract me. I'm known for consistently handing out ratings no higher than "Meh". As a result, I'm occasionally accused of being gay. They all look too plasticky for my tastes.

Most celebrities look so "unnatural" to me, just like the dark side.
Fashion is a form of uglyliness so intolerable we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde 

[Oddysey]

Yeah. I'm rarely very attracted by male celebrities. They just don't look very interesting. Or something.

The exception, of course, is Viggo Mortenson. (I think that's his last name.) And that's as much the characters he plays as anything else. Aragorn rocks.

[SimsHost]

My favorite actress is Myrna Loy, by the way. I think she is (was?) funny, witty, warm, and intelligent. She was (I don't know if she's still alive, I don't watch many movies or television, nor do I read any entertainment rags) also very pretty in my opinion.

G.

Oh, I agree with you about Myrna Loy, but she has one little problem that keeps me from getting excited about her--she looks just like my mother!

[baratron]

On the notion that all babies are born with blue eyes and brown hair: That's probably mostly true of Anglo-Saxon descent; however I can attest from personal experience that it's not true of people from just about anywhere in the world outside the UK, Scandinavia, and Germany.

If anyone would like to be freaked out, I was born with navy blue irises, and pastel blue scleras (sclerae? the "white" of the eye). My irises went dark brown within a few months, but the blue in the scleras took a bit longer to fade - there's a photo of me aged six months where I still have noticeably blue "whites".

My eyes nowadays look like this.

[J. M. Pescado]

You look fine to me. Mine can look much worse than you. I'm consistently bloodshot and if I rupture something, it will turn entirely purple. Combined with the network of large throbbing veins on my head, and, well, you get the idea.

[kim]

Off hand, I'd say, at their peak of youth and beauty:

those rarely coincide.  or did you mean,"youth and marketability"? sorry, major personal annoyance issue.