Bathroom Controller: In Soviet Russia, Bathroom Uses You!

[J. M. Pescado]

I've had this happen too.  It may be that you don't see it because you don't have free will enabled.  When sims autonomously go into the bathroom for any reason, whether it is to wash a plate or clean the bathtub, they either get used or thrown out.

Autonomous behavior is not permitted in the bathroom. That's precisely what causes pileups. Anyone trying to perform an autonomous behavior must be processed and then thrown out, or else the bathroom invariably becomes jammed. You may wish to go as far as forbidding autonomous entry into the bathroom via APO. Alternatively, I recommend not including dishwashing equipment in bathrooms, especially near dish production areas.

As well as picking up babies that are born in the bathroom.  I've had to use moveobjects to move babies out of the bathroom who were born there because even when I've manually told them to pick up the baby or click on the crib for them to put them in, they get thrown out.

The baby issue is presently under investigation. Improved handling of babies should occur in an upcoming version.

[RainbowTigress]

Alternatively, I recommend not including dishwashing equipment in bathrooms, especially near dish production areas.

It doesn't matter how far away the bathroom is, if someone is using or blocking the sink or dishwasher in the kitchen, then they will trek all the way to the bathroom, even if it's on another floor.

[FreakyRufus]

I play with autonomous behavior on, and I haven't seen this problem with the version of the bathroom contoller I have (posted on 1/14/06).  I've seen sims go into the bathroom and wash dishes successfully on residential lots.  I've also seen sims wander into the bathroom when they don't need to use it, and then be thrown out by the controller (they just run out of it )

[RainbowTigress]

If you look at what the icon says when they run out of the bathroom, the one with the footprints, it says "Be thrown out." 

[FreakyRufus]

If you look at what the icon says when they run out of the bathroom, the one with the footprints, it says "Be thrown out." 

Yes, I know.  I was just being too verbose, as usual.

[RainbowTigress]

If you look at what the icon says when they run out of the bathroom, the one with the footprints, it says "Be thrown out." 

Yes, I know.  I was just being too verbose, as usual.

That's ok, I do that too sometimes.

[J. M. Pescado]

=
It doesn't matter how far away the bathroom is, if someone is using or blocking the sink or dishwasher in the kitchen, then they wiill treik all the way to the bathroom, even if it's on another floor.

It actually does matter: They'll attempt to use closer objects before further objects. HOWEVER, "closer" is determined by "ethereal crow" distance, not height-adjusted distance, so if your bathroom is above the kitchen, that can cause this behavior. Preference is also given towards dishwashers over sinks, and redundant dishwashers can help a lot.

[Swiftgold]

Oh yes, something else - Inge's shower kit you can stick anywhere is also enabled for visitor use. I have a house where, despite the controller, some visiting Sims (kids I think) can use it without a problem. Mostly, however, visitors will get stuck where they are stinky and want to use that shower, but unless I control them and let them use it, the bathroom controller keeps kicking them out. They won't go off and do something else, though, they just stand by the bathroom and continually try to run in again.

[J. M. Pescado]

Most showers are not visitor-allowed unless the visitor has a certain flag which is set at some unknown time. Making the sim selectable will bypass that. The Bathroom Controller checks for this flag and does not perform the showering thing for visitors unless it is set. Variant showers may confuse your visitors as a result. No loitering is permitted in the bathroom, so anyone trying to enter, such as aforementioned visitors, will be ejected to keep the docking port free.

[RainbowTigress]

I don't use custom showers, but I have had visitors get stuck in the bathroom when they are too stinky.  They try to use the shower but can't, and if they are tired enough, they will fall asleep standing up because they are trying to use the shower and can't.  Like Swiftgold, though, making them selectable allows them to go ahead and shower so they will then free up the bathroom.

Another funny thing happens on dates at home that is rather annoying.  If the sim initiating the date uses the bathroom, the date controller keeps directing the sim to follow them, so it makes them go into the bathroom with them, but then the bathroom controller throws them out.  This happens constantly, over and over, until the sim finishes everything, which can take awhile sometimes.

[J. M. Pescado]

I don't use custom showers, but I have had visitors get stuck in the bathroom when they are too stinky.  They try to use the shower but can't, and if they are tired enough, they will fall asleep standing up because they are trying to use the shower and can't.  Like Swiftgold, though, making them selectable allows them to go ahead and shower so they will then free up the bathroom.

That bug should be fixed, possibly in the current version, definitely in the test build.

Another funny thing happens on dates at home that is rather annoying.  If the sim initiating the date uses the bathroom, the date controller keeps directing the sim to follow them, so it makes them go into the bathroom with them, but then the bathroom controller throws them out.  This happens constantly, over and over, until the sim finishes everything, which can take awhile sometimes.

Well, what would you propose as an alternative? For your date to jam up the bathroom indefinitely, probably stopping your sim from getting in and out of the terlet and shower? I think that's more a date controller issue which makes your date STALK YOUR SIM INTO THE BATHROOM IN A HIGHLY DISTURBING AND CREEPY MANNER. And it's right and proper that the bathroom controller tosses her back out. Over and over again.

[RainbowTigress]

That bug should be fixed, possibly in the current version, definitely in the test build.

Awesome!

Well, what would you propose as an alternative? For your date to jam up the bathroom indefinitely, probably stopping your sim from getting in and out of the terlet and shower? I think that's more a date controller issue which makes your date STALK YOUR SIM INTO THE BATHROOM IN A HIGHLY DISTURBING AND CREEPY MANNER. And it's right and proper that the bathroom controller tosses her back out. Over and over again.

Yes, it is creepy, although funny in a way.  I would rather prefer the date to sit outside quietly and wait like someone with some upbringing.  Maybe that's their problem, no home training?  Why don't bathroom doors have locks on them??  That's what I always do.

[J. M. Pescado]

Yes, it is creepy, although funny in a way.  I would rather prefer the date to sit outside quietly and wait like someone with some upbringing.  Maybe that's their problem, no home training?  Why don't bathroom doors have locks on them??  That's what I always do.

The kicker being that the bathroom "privacy lock" does not function if A: The other sim enters before the throne is claimed, or B: The sims are in love with each other, which bypasses the privacy shoo. Thus, that sim will continue to stalk into the bathroom, and, of course, be thrown out by the bathroom controller because the bathroom is in use and the other sim doesn't need it.

[LFox]

I just tried this out for the first time and wow I just can't believe i was such an IDIOT as to not use it.  Now my question i have my bathroom built with 8 toilets and 8 communal showers.  The showers are all along the wall in the main room and the toilets are each in their own 2x1 room with a archway on their doorway.  How many bathroom controllers should i install?

My houses consist of normally 4-6+ people if that matters (due to kids, parents and grandparents).  I did a brief test with a controller for each toilet set to radius 10 using 3 sims in the bathroom at the one time and it seemed to work okay.  There was a slight thing with the toilet but immediately after finding it occupied they were designated to a free one.

[RainbowTigress]

You need a controller for each toilet.  For communal type bathrooms, the stall toilets work best because if you wall them off, each one is considered a different room.  If the toilets, sinks, and showers are in the same room, you don't need to use the radius, just leave it set for Room Only, which is the default.  You'd only need to set the radius if you have the toilet and shower in separate room.  I try to avoid doing this, especially in college dorms, because it can cause problems with sending the females to the male toilets and vice versa.

[LFox]

You need a controller for each toilet.  For communal type bathrooms, the stall toilets work best because if you wall them off, each one is considered a different room.  If the toilets, sinks, and showers are in the same room, you don't need to use the radius, just leave it set for Room Only, which is the default.  You'd only need to set the radius if you have the toilet and shower in separate room.  I try to avoid doing this, especially in college dorms, because it can cause problems with sending the females to the male toilets and vice versa.

Ahh i see well i have mixed gender so it's no problem.  If the seperate toilet rooms show problems i'll switch to all stall toilets to solve it.

[Thraxwhirl]

JMP, I've read through the opening post, in an effort to try and ascertain something, but can't, so I hope you don't mind if I ask direct.

Does this NEW version take into account toilets/showers/tubs that are in rooms Inaccassible to the sim? In other words, if a sim is near a bathroom with a locked door - be it a simlogical one or a Maxis Gender specific one, or even one programmed with your Security Alarm - will the toilet roll still try to summon them in...?

And if it does, will it still freeze them for the rest of their lives, as the old version did?

I've had this happen with my sims. They've walked past a bathroom and been summoned to go and pee, but due to the door barring them, they just stand there forever with the hammer and sickle permanently stuck in their action queue... and it CAN'T be cancelled out.

To free them up again, one has to MoveObjects and delete the loo roll.

Does the new version cater for this, and summon only those sims who CAN enter said bathroom?

[J. M. Pescado]

Does this NEW version take into account toilets/showers/tubs that are in rooms Inaccassible to the sim? In other words, if a sim is near a bathroom with a locked door - be it a simlogical one or a Maxis Gender specific one, or even one programmed with your Security Alarm - will the toilet roll still try to summon them in...?

No, pathfinding is not a tenable exercise to perform in advance, and there's simply no way to pre-check these things. Gender-specific bathrooms can be preprogrammed into the TP itself, so a sim will never be summoned into an improperly gendered bathroom if configured as such, but if you're locking the bathroom, you should not install Bathroom Uses You on locked bathrooms.

I've had this happen with my sims. They've walked past a bathroom and been summoned to go and pee, but due to the door barring them, they just stand there forever with the hammer and sickle permanently stuck in their action queue... and it CAN'T be cancelled out.

To free them up again, one has to MoveObjects and delete the loo roll.

You should be able to cancel it out just fine, but if Seek Mode is on, or any macro is attempting to use it, it will keep reappearing on the queue. You may wish to pause while cancelling it, and cancel whatever root interactions will respawn the command.

Does the new version cater for this, and summon only those sims who CAN enter said bathroom?

There is no feasible way to detect all cases of non-enterability. The gender-specific case is common and can be configured for. Anything else is not advised. Bathroom-autoservice is meant to eliminate the need for locking bathrooms at all.

[RainbowTigress]

Pausing and canceling almost always works for me.  I don't use the locking doors for this reason.  The controller has problems with non-Maxis doors.  And setting the seek option for the appropriate gender takes care of the gender specific doors in dorms.  The only thing I've had to do is remove doors and arches from within the bathrooms so that it's all one room, and the controller can easily find the showers in the same room instead of trying to set the radius. 

[Thraxwhirl]

Bathroom-autoservice is meant to eliminate the need for locking bathrooms at all.

I would totally agree, JMP. I never lock bathroom doors, only front doors to properties. Unfortunately the problem I have is with neighbours being summoned to a toilet inside a locked apartment.

I'm interested to read that you say the Use Toilet Action CAN be cancelled. I've not found that to be the case. And even if it were, that's still a problem for visitors and NPCs, unless you use other hacks/hacked objects to take control of them.

However, IF the action were not Permanently queued, a solution to sims trying to break into their neighbour's toilets would theoretically be possible, and depend NOT on the specific traits of the sim him/herself and how the TP identifies them, 'cos that would be impossible. Rather the notion of TIME.

In other words, IF the action were to disappear from the target sim's queue AUTONOMOUSLY in the event of failure... just as surely a sim will give up waiting to "Chat" if the intented Chatee is busy, and the action disappear after about 5 sim minutes, so too could the "Use Toilet" action vanish if the sim failed to get there within that time. He/she would then be free to wander off elsewhere. This would mean that unselectable sims like visitors won't get pinned to the spot permanently; after a few moments of "failed route", they'd give up trying to reach the bathroom and find something else to do.

Then, to prevent perpetual RE-summoning, it would be cool if the FREQUENCY with which the loo roll issued its summons were far less - like once per 30 sim minutes, instead of constantly - or at least configurable.

This way, sims that are trying to use someone else's toilet in an apartment they can't enter would at least have a chance for 30 minutes of freedom, hopefully to find the toilet in their OWN flat, before being summoned again.

Just my thought. Less a case of the controller being able to recognise doors and THEIR configuration(which is of course impossible), and more a case of toning down the eagerness of the thing and reducing its ability to jam an action queue permanently.

Very handy for apartment blocks... and I am told that Twojeffs is interested in creating a hack or hacks to further the cause of Apartment Living and make it work realistically. If the TP were able to be modified a little, it would be an invaluable asset in that area.

Just a suggestion.

[jsalemi]

I didn't realize that Inge's lockable doors would cause a problem with the bathroom controller until I had a child with high active points freeze in mid-air as he was running to the bathroom, and stay there for a couple of minutes, just floating off the ground.  There wasn't anyone in the bathroom, and I couldn't figure out what the problem was until I clicked on the bathroom door and saw it locked behind the last person who left quickly.  Unlocking it freed the kid from his freeze, and when he was done I removed the lockable bathroom doors from all my lots...

[Thraxwhirl]

I didn't realize that Inge's lockable doors would cause a problem with the bathroom controller until I had a child with high active points freeze in mid-air as he was running to the bathroom, and stay there for a couple of minutes, just floating off the ground.  There wasn't anyone in the bathroom, and I couldn't figure out what the problem was until I clicked on the bathroom door and saw it locked behind the last person who left quickly.  Unlocking it freed the kid from his freeze, and when he was done I removed the lockable bathroom doors from all my lots...

I'm interested to note that in someone else's game too the sim froze when he couldn't reach the toilet.

This clarifies my thinking on the problem. It has effectively nothing to do with doors and their configuration, or whether or not the TP can recognise them, it's all to do with the Action Queue.

You see, IF I were to place a bookcase in a corner, and then stick a potted plant imediately in front of it, then click on the bookcase and tell a sim to "Read Book", it would fail, because the bookcase cannot be reached. The action would be dropped. If I did the same thing with a toilet and a potted plant, and tried to tell a sim to use the toilet, the same thing would happen. The action would fail, it would be dropped from the queue, and the sim would go and do something else. Now this has nothing to do with hacked objects or the configuration of any of them and their abilities to "co-operate" with each other, it's simply that a "route failure" SHOULD result in the action being dropped - whether that route failure is due to a locked door or a plant pot in front of the clicked object shouldn't matter... the object is inaccessible, the sim fails to reach it - the action is dropped.

Yet, in my experience, and that of jsalemi, this does not seem to happen with the summons of the TP. The action never drops when the sim can't get to the object.

Now, I MAY be wrong, but I don't THINK it's the doors which are at fault. I've placed objects like bookcases in rooms which are locked, and clicked on them with the selected sim(who had no access), and he she would simply turn, look at the door, and fail to enter. The action would be dropped from the queue with no fuss, and he/she would wander off and look for something else to do. A simple case of Inaccessible Object(for whater reason) = Failed Route = Drop Action and do something else.

The doors, in all cases that I've tested, seem fine with this. And furthermore, Inge Jones says, I BELIEVE, that sims SHOULDN'T AUTONOMUSLY try to reach/interact with objects and other sims that are the other side of the locked door(s).

My play-testing of her doors would seem to support this. I've NOT had instances of sims trying to get into each others apartments to chat to their neighbours behind a locked door, nor read each others books nor play each others pinball machines etc. They don't EVEN try to serve food for their Neighbours if there are insufficent places available in their own Apartments/Accessible Areas. And that really IS a breakthrough. Out of sight really does seem to be out of mind.

Yet they'll still try to enter each other's locked apartments to use their neighbours' toilets if and when summoned by the toilet roll.

Now this WOULDN'T be a problem IF the the Action would drop from the Queue upon Route Failure, but unfortunately that is not the case.

If the Action would drop, the problem would be solved, and it would seem that Locking Configuration is(or at least would be) irrelevant.

[RainbowTigress]

I've had the same thing happen with the sleep clock.  Sims would start to run and freeze in midair if they could not reach them, due to diagonal walls and doors in my case.  The sim would turn his head and look when someone walked by, but he was just frozen in a running position in midair.  It would be funny if it weren't so frustrating.

[Ness]

Using the version from 6/3/06, 12:41PM, I am getting errors - several on entering a lot for the first time, which are only solved by deleting.

I have placed new TP rolls, and now get "Illegal owner field in data reference" errors when configured to seek - reproduced many times.

Example error report attached.

[J. M. Pescado]

You see, IF I were to place a bookcase in a corner, and then stick a potted plant imediately in front of it, then click on the bookcase and tell a sim to "Read Book", it would fail, because the bookcase cannot be reached. The action would be dropped. If I did the same thing with a toilet and a potted plant, and tried to tell a sim to use the toilet, the same thing would happen. The action would fail, it would be dropped from the queue, and the sim would go and do something else. Now this has nothing to do with hacked objects or the configuration of any of them and their abilities to "co-operate" with each other, it's simply that a "route failure" SHOULD result in the action being dropped - whether that route failure is due to a locked door or a plant pot in front of the clicked object shouldn't matter... the object is inaccessible, the sim fails to reach it - the action is dropped.

The "route failure, drop action" behavior tends to be rather irritating when sims drop actions because of some temporary obstacle in their path, such as someone else's fat ass. Some of the more forceful objects are thus programmed to retry the action immediately until it succeeds. Failure is not an option! DAMN THE TORPEDOES! FULL SPEED AHEAD!

The bottom line: Bathroom Uses You is meant to supplant the necessity of locking bathrooms at all, since any casual pest wandering into the bathroom is forcibly commanded to sod off and punted to an alternate docking port or the waiting queue.

Except you people insist on running these silly "apartment blocks" which the game architecture is simply not designed for. There is simply no really good way to reliably recognize mutilated house configurations like this.