"Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)

[dmchess]

Inspired by Damion Cormier's SSU career I thought I'd draft a related Challenge (I've never tried to write a Challenge before). This is just a draft; suggestions for improvement welcome. This is a short challenge, that could probably be played through in a sitting or two (or six), rather than an enormous long challenge like Legacy. It's also probably incredibly wuss by Certain People's standards;  but I'm okay with that.  *8)

"Sleeping Through College" Challenge

The basic aim of the Sleeping Through College Challenge is to graduate from college as well as possible while doing as little academic work as possible. The Challenge involves just a single main Sim, and the rules apply from the moment that Sim enters college to the moment e graduates (or the moment the challenge is failed, whichever comes first). The main Sim may be male or female, and of any aspiration (although certain aspirations may lend themselves more naturally to it), and may come from Create A Student, from moving in a previously-uncontrollable dormie, or from a neighborhood (if the main Sim comes from a neighborhood, the incoming Skills should not have been too egregiously elevated by mods or cheats; use your own judgement). The main Sim may live in any type of college housing, and there may be other controllable Sims living on the same lot subject to the rules below.

Basic rules: No cheats. Specifically, no typing anything on the cheat command line, or using any mods that change the game behavior, with these exceptions: moveObjects may be used to move or delete glitched objects; mods that are solely to prevent or fix nasty obvious game bugs / glitches may be used as required (but if they have other features, those other features may not be used); cheats and mods that have only a visual effect (blur removal, improved lighting models, etc) may be used at will.  Aspiration rewards may be used at will, but hacked rewards (buyable, hacked collections, etc) are forbidden.  (i.e. pretty much Legacy cheat/mod rules.)  Unlike Legacy, you may exit the lot without saving (life is too short), with scoring consequences as described below.

Academic rules: No assignments or term papers or tutoring or research. The main Sim may not work on an assignment at any time (the College / Do Assignment verb may be used, but must be cancelled as soon as the Sim has put down the little assignment book), nor on a thesis, nor do research nor join group research. No other controllable Sim may ever work on an assignment or thesis for the main Sim, or Influence any other Sim to do so. (The main Sim may influence non-controllable Sims to do so at any time without penalty.) No other controllable Sim may Introduce the main Sim to any professor. The main Sim may not ask any professor for tutoring at any time. The main Sim may attend up to three classes (in the entire course of the Challenge, not per term or per year), and any number of final exams, with scoring consequences as described below.

Scoring:

Number of classes attended (entire college career):
none: +1000 points
one: +500 points
two: +0 points
three: -250 points
four or more: FAILURE

Number of assignments or theses worked on:
none: +0 points
one or more: FAILURE

(Other grounds for immediate FAILURE include the main Sim doing research of any kind, having other controllables do assignments for the main Sim, and so on; see "Academic rules" above.)

Main Sim from CAS (no incoming skills): +100 points

+100 points for each final exam skipped.

+100 points for each semester (each half of a year) in which the main Sim uses neither "Influence... to do my assignment" nor "Influence... to write my thesis".

Drama bonus: graduate without majoring in anything but Drama: +100 points

Dorm bonus: graduate never having lived in any non-dorm college lot: +100 points

Loner bonus: graduate never having lived in a college lot with another controllable: +100 points

Academic probation: -500 points per incident.

Kicked out of college: FAILURE

Exiting the lot without saving: -100 points per incident, and you must appropriately annotate your score (e. g. "450 points, including a 100 point penalty for exiting without saving that time the dorm burned down").

Graduation:
Summa C Laude: +1500 points
Magna C Laude: +1000 points
C Laude: +750 points
Other: +500 points

(Note that Damion's college career would have failed on several counts, but that knowing what I know now I think I could score 500 or 1000 at least...)

Comments and playtesting most welcome! I'm sure the points aren't perfectly balanced (I don't actually know what skipping a final does to one's grades, for instance, never having done it...).  And there may well be some trivial loopholes that I've forgotten to close.

Have at it!
DC

[Ancient Sim]

So basically they have to get through the entire thing on influencing dormies to write their term papers and assignments?  It probably wouldn't be all that difficult, I had a Romance Sim who basically did that, although he did go to more than 3 classes and I think he was forced to do one term paper himself.  That's about all he did do, though.  As for what happens if you don't go to your final, you get put on academic probation and if you don't make it next time you're slung out.

[dmchess]

So basically they have to get through the entire thing on influencing dormies to write their term papers and assignments?

Well, that'd be one approach.  It wasn't Damion's main strategy, though; see his story for alternate methods...   *8)

As for what happens if you don't go to your final, you get put on academic probation and if you don't make it next time you're slung out.

Really?  You get automatic probation for missing a final?  I thought it was just some lowering of grade points (so if you had a full grade bar but missed a final you could still pass the semester).  Heh...

Tx,
DC

[nikita]

So basically they have to get through the entire thing on influencing dormies to write their term papers and assignments?

Well, that'd be one approach.  It wasn't Damion's main strategy, though; see his story for alternate methods...   *

As for what happens if you don't go to your final, you get put on academic probation and if you don't make it next time you're slung out.

Really?  You get automatic probation for missing a final?  I thought it was just some lowering of grade points (so if you had a full grade bar but missed a final you could still pass the semester).  Heh...

Tx,
DC

You're right, you're not automatically put on academic probation.  If your academic bar is completely filled, the worst you get for missing your final is a C for the semester.   I would imagine if your bar is low enough, you could be put on probation.  So graduating Summa or even Magna cum without attending finals would be impossible.

(without the penalty for skipping finals) I could easily do well in this challenge.  I had a Romance Sim a while back who only attended one class her entire 8 semesters and graduated Summa cum Laude.  No hacks, no cheats, just a lot of influence points and woohooing with professors.  By her junior year, I had it down to such a science, her bar was full within the first 15 hours and I had her on the roof smoking the blower for the rest of the semester.

[dmchess]

You're right, you're not automatically put on academic probation.  If your academic bar is completely filled, the worst you get for missing your final is a C for the semester.   I would imagine if your bar is low enough, you could be put on probation.  So graduating Summa or even Magna cum without attending finals would be impossible.

Yeah, that sounds more like what the Prima guide says (not that it's always reliable!).  It says that you lose 350 out of a possible 1000 points if you miss a final; so if you started out full you end up with 650 points, which is like a C+.  You'd only go on probation if your bar was low enough that 350 points got you down to a D or whatever.

(without the penalty for skipping finals) I could easily do well in this challenge.  I had a Romance Sim a while back who only attended one class her entire 8 semesters and graduated Summa cum Laude.  No hacks, no cheats, just a lot of influence points and woohooing with professors.  By her junior year, I had it down to such a science, her bar was full within the first 15 hours and I had her on the roof smoking the blower for the rest of the semester.

Great stuff!  *8)  Just the sort of thing I had in mind.  Did you run into the problem that once your Professors are all in love with you, you stop getting grade points by interacting with them?  That was the effect that made Damion's story interesting.  (That and the special feature of Drama profs.)

DC

[Kyna]

The main Sim may be male or female, and of any aspiration (although certain aspirations may lend themselves more naturally to it), and may come from Create A Student, from moving in a previously-uncontrollable dormie, or from a neighborhood (if the main Sim comes from a neighborhood, the incoming Skills should not have been too egregiously elevated by mods or cheats; use your own judgement).

Probably better not to allow a sim that was a playable teen in the neighbourhood.  One dose of smart milk as a toddler, and it's incredibly easy to have at least 8 points in each skill by the teen years - 8 in each skill is probably what you mean by 'egregiously elevated'.  As an example I was just playing a lot a few minutes ago, the teen in the family had all skills to 8 (some to 9) before transitioning to teen (Dad is in the athletics career, so there was a body reward on the lot).  As well as that, with the friendships he's made already, he has more influence than a starting-out sim.  Moved in dormies also have at least one friendship (with the sim that moved them in) so they'd have a head start on influence too.

I'm one of those people - and there are quite a few - who is offended by the idea of sleeping with professors to get grades.  As a part-time mature age student at uni in RL, I can tell you it rarely happens, and when it does happen it's classed as sexual harrassment and the professor/lecturer/tutor can get in VERY big trouble for it, up to and including job loss and prosecution.  So if I were to play this challenge I'd be influencing dormies or pledges to do the coursework.

Not getting the 100 points per semester for getting others to do coursework (800 per entire course) is outweighed by the +1000 for not attending classes.  If you really want to make this an offensively distasteful 'sleep with the professor' challenge, you should make it a penalty for influencing others, and make it higher in point value.

When I played that Micky Dosser sim (in one of the male frats I think?) who starts on probation, the first semester I played him his GPA went to 4.0.  The bad grades from previous semesters weren't taken into account in the GPA.  So it would be possible to coast through this challenge on C grades as has been outlined above by others (max out bar, then miss exam), then go for the summa cum laude in the final semester.  That's +700 points for skipping 7 exams and you get the summa cum laude bonus.  Might be better to adjust it so there's negative points for each exam you attend, and make the penalty higher than 100.

[dmchess]

Thanks much for the suggestions!  I'm playtesting it through right now (with a CAS sim; Suzette Somnius just A+d her first semester, although her aspiration dipped awfully low at some points; maybe there should be a penalty for aspiration failure), and it's fun.  Not sure how challenging it is yet. 

I'll probably need to add some restrictions on the lot(s) where the main Sim lives, also, and/or on the use of aspiration rewards.  Could just make a "main Sim may only use rewards e earned and bought emself" rule (to avoid salting the place with hordes of Energizers and stuff in advance), but I'm waiting to see if I can think of anything that allows for more creativity.  Don't know if I want to ban other lot enhancements (more comfy chairs, etc); given how short this challenge is, I want to make it flexible enough that people can play it in their existing neighborhoods, and not have to like create a special neighborhood or unenhanced dorm for it.

I'd like to allow people to use Neighborhood-raised teens if they want to (for similar reasons).  Maybe there could just be a larger bonus for a CAS sim, a smaller one for a moved-in dormie, and none for a Neighborhood-raised kid?  Something like that.

I find professors sleeping with students for grades pretty offensive in real life, too, but this is just a fantasy!  *8)  Maybe there could be a "no woohoos with profs this term" bonus to counterbalance the "no academic Influences this term" bonus?  I'd like to allow people to play it in Influence style or Romance style, or whatever mixture they want, without having either style obviously higher-scoring.

So it would be possible to coast through this challenge on C grades as has been outlined above by others (max out bar, then miss exam), then go for the summa cum laude in the final semester.

Really?  You can get C's for seven terms and still graduate cum laude?  That'd be weird, even for Maxis!  *8)  I'll have to look into that, and definitely adjust that part of the scoring if it's true.  (Although if people know enough about the game to do that, they probably deserve a bit of a bonus...)

Tx again,
DC

[J. M. Pescado]

This is too easy.

Consider the following
+100 CAS
+100 Dorm
+100 Solo
+100 Drama
+800 No Influence
+1000 No Classes
+1500 SCL (better than +800 skip all finals and +500 basic graduation)

Max Score Possible: 3700.

All too easy. Just get all your GPA from research, which is not penalized at all. Is this supposed to be a challenge? Your powers are weak, little man.

[dmchess]

All too easy. Just get all your GPA from research, which is not penalized at all.

Research is absolutely forbidden.  That's mentioned in the narrative, but not in the tables; I should make it more explicit.

Is this supposed to be a challenge? Your powers are weak, little man.

Only compared to yours, your awesomeness.   *8)

[J. M. Pescado]

I find professors sleeping with students for grades pretty offensive in real life, too, but this is just a fantasy!  *  Maybe there could be a "no woohoos with profs this term" bonus to counterbalance the "no academic Influences this term" bonus?  I'd like to allow people to play it in Influence style or Romance style, or whatever mixture they want, without having either style obviously higher-scoring.

So....why not then not have a penalty for either one? If you obviously wish to encourage one or the other style, why penalize either one?

[dmchess]

I find professors sleeping with students for grades pretty offensive in real life, too, but this is just a fantasy!  *8)  Maybe there could be a "no woohoos with profs this term" bonus to counterbalance the "no academic Influences this term" bonus?  I'd like to allow people to play it in Influence style or Romance style, or whatever mixture they want, without having either style obviously higher-scoring.

So....why not then not have a penalty for either one? If you obviously wish to encourage one or the other style, why penalize either one?

I think the idea underlying my intuition there is to reward either Pure style (since a Mixed style is in general easier to play in this kind of thing).  So sure it's not too hard to pass the semester using both Romance and Influence; using just one or the other (not both) might be a little harder, and so deserve a bonus.

Or maybe I just like giving out bonuses.  *8)

omg, JMP replied twice!  I'll never wash this thread again...

[BlueSoup]

omg, JMP replied twice!  I'll never wash this thread again...

Uhh, you really should wash...JM is really dirty and digusting. 

[dmchess]

Hm, okay, so what's the proper Romance-style equivalent for the "no academic influences this term" bonus?  Just "no woohoos with Profs this term" seems too easy.  Would "no non-autonomous romantic interactions with profs this term" be too comparatively demanding?

Candidate updates:

Main Sim may only use Aspiration Rewards e bought with eir own points (penalty for violation immediate FAILURE).

Raise CAS-main-Sim bonus to +200, impose a -200 penalty for using a Neighborhood-raised Sim.  (That doesn't feel quite right somehow, but it'll do as a strawman.)

+100 points for each semester (each half of a year) in which the main Sim has no non-autonomous romantic interactions with a Professor.

Maybe something about not having the main Sim live in housing that's been too wildly buid/buy enhanced, although I'm not sure just how to set that bar.  Maybe a "use your own judgement" thing...

(In case it's not obvious, this is intended as a challenge where the hard part is getting a high score, not simply surviving at all (like Some We Could Name), or enduring the endlessness (like Legacy).)

[Liss]

omg, JMP replied twice!  I'll never wash this thread again...

Uhh, you really should wash...JM is really dirty and digusting. 

I concur.  You never know when he's been elbow-deep in blood. Or deeper.  He prefers to bathe in it.

[dmchess]

omg, JMP replied twice!  I'll never wash this thread again...

Uhh, you really should wash...JM is really dirty and digusting.  ;)

I concur.  You never know when he's been elbow-deep in blood. Or deeper.  He prefers to bathe in it.

And this is a problem how?  *8)

But to return to the nominal subject, a fascinating oddity has come up in playtesting. Suzette Somnius just had her second A+ semester (and with the No Academic Influences bonus for both of them), and when she got back from her final there were popups telling me that she's met two more professors! What's up with that? I don't remember that happening before. Sims don't get new professors every year, do they? And they aren't supposed to meet profs at finals anyway, are they? Are these professors in her department, that she can butter up for grades? Or what? They aren't professors that any of my other college Sims have encountered, so I suspect the game just newly spun them up. Why? If the game keeps spinning up new profs for Suzette to fall in love with, this isn't going to be much of a challenge at all! *8)  And on the other hand my game's going to have far too many Philosophy profs.

Guesses and pointings-out that I'm missing something obvious most welcome,
DC

[Kyna]

Did she declare a major this semester?

When my sims were still meeting professors* if they declared a major (or switched majors) they would meet new professors at the next class and if they didn't attend any more classes that semester they'd meet the professors at the exam. 

There might be an idea for a purity bonus - never made friends with any professors (i.e. relationship at 0/0 or lower with every professor for duration of challenge).  And for the other way would be never used influence for any study-related reason.

*My sims no longer meet professors thanks to one of TwoJeffs hacks.

[dmchess]

Did she declare a major this semester?

No, she declared Philosophy within the first ten minutes after arriving at the dorm, immediately went to her first (and, touch wood, only) class and met her Philosophy professors, and hasn't switched majors since.

Maybe not having been to a single class her entire second Freshman term has somehow confused the game.

There might be an idea for a purity bonus - never made friends with any professors (i.e. relationship at 0/0 or lower with every professor for duration of challenge).  And for the other way would be never used influence for any study-related reason.

Yeah, there's already a small per-term bonus for not using academic Influence, and I'm considering a corresponding one for the other obvious style.  I was thinking of just "no romantic interactions with Profs", but maybe a 0/0 relationship score would be more equitable.  Decisions, decisions...   *8)

[Sagana]

I'm pretty sure you do meet new profs every year. My sims have 8 they know in their relationship panel when they're done. And if you hadn't meet them in class before, I guess it makes sense you'd meet them at the final, tho I've not actually tried that as I usually send mine to class.

[J. M. Pescado]

Oooh. I think I know how I can get both the No Influence *AND* the No Romance dings now. Mwahahaha.

[dmchess]

I'm pretty sure you do meet new profs every year. My sims have 8 they know in their relationship panel when they're done.

How bizarre!  I know mine haven't in the past; my very first college student Gina Raptor came home knowing only four Profs: the two General Studies profs and the two Philosophy profs (at least I'm about 92% sure of that).  Maybe some glitch prevented the game from generating more for her?  Or something?

And if you hadn't meet them in class before, I guess it makes sense you'd meet them at the final, tho I've not actually tried that as I usually send mine to class.

Yeah, that part would make sense.

I went into SimPE and verified that these two profs Suzette just met were indeed freshly spun up (or at least their instance numbers very strongly suggest that), and a couple of quick phone calls verify that they are indeed Phil profs (I don't know how to figure out a professor's department from SimPE).

Man, if you really get a pair of fresh Professors every year, the Romance style of this challenge is going to be 'way to easy.  Thinking Caps on!  *8)

[dmchess]

Oooh. I think I know how I can get both the No Influence *AND* the No Romance dings now. Mwahahaha.

Very gratifyin'!  The mark of a good challenge is that it gets the player thinking. 

(Or that it produces funny stories.)

[Sagana]

The mark of a good challenge is that it gets the player thinking.

I hafta admit, mean as it is the Ethiopian challenge does that. You can't help but try to think of ways to accomplish it. If I could feed the kids somehow, I might even really try it instead of just playing around trying to see what is doable

Same with this one. It's interesting. I hate Uni tho - I don't think I'd have the stamina to try, mess up, start over (which seems to be the way I do everything).

Goddess, I'm picky :p I want a challenge you have to think about that is just what I want to do Hm, maybe next lifetime.

[nikita]

I don't think you meet new professors very year, or at least it's never happened in my game.  The only time that you meet professors is the first time you go to class and then the first time you go to a class of your chosen major.  I've never seen professors other than those met from those two times in my Sims' directory.

If you want to set living standards (I agree, some dorms are like palaces), just make a list of what you can have in the dorm.  Like they all have to be Maxis objects under 1000 simoleons to ensure they're low to midrange.

Damn, the new rules just completely changed my score as I can't woohoo with professors or use the double-credit term paper trick anymore.

[nectere]

I am not quite sure why you would ever have to sleep with a professor to get class points, the phone works just as well. And as far as introducing, I am not sure what you mean, do you mean the actual menu item Introduce to or any kind of interaction with a professor in person? I mean can one sim invite his/her professors over to the house, or call them on the phone and the challenge sim jsut happen to talk to them, or join the conversation on the phone?

I have already played college like this a lot before I got JMPs college clock, my sims spent all their time learning any skills they hadnt already, making friends and making money (since I had no 20k), thee only time they went to class was for finals. It might be a little harder if the Challenge sim had to live on his/her own made from Cas. That way you would have the element of hardship to live on a small lot and try to make money to build a home and get through college. He/she could still go to community lots to meet and influence people to do his/her bidding.

[dmchess]

The mark of a good challenge is that it gets the player thinking.

I hafta admit, mean as it is the Ethiopian challenge does that. You can't help but try to think of ways to accomplish it. If I could feed the kids somehow, I might even really try it instead of just playing around trying to see what is doable

Yeah, it's great fun to read stories about other people struggling to accomplish challenges like Email and Ethiopian.  I'm not nearly bored enough with more mainline gameplay to bash my head against them myself though (i.e. I'm still content with my wussiness).

Same with this one. It's interesting. I hate Uni tho - I don't think I'd have the stamina to try, mess up, start over (which seems to be the way I do everything).

I have the advantage here that I love Uni; dunno why.  Some personality flaw no doubt.