Sims 3: Integrated Economy

[CharmingFirewaller]

Just for nostalgia's sake, I went and visited some of my favorite Sims 2 sites and came across tutorials by a player named Jade Elliott (who probably hasn't even purchased the Sims 3 since she up and left long before its release). For those who are familiar with her old blog you'd probably know how fond she was of the integrated economy in her game. Transactions were made between sims, residents paid taxes and a mayor was even elected (based on relationship points and other factors, if I remember correctly). It made the town/hood come to life.

I personally enjoyed that style of play and have been trying to do something similar in the Sims 3 but without an Open For Business-type expansion, it almost seems impossible to implement. We've got a City Hall, Hospital, etc. and different jobs have different features now (instead of simply disappearing from the lot for a few sim hours like in the Sims 2, sims can now hold meetings, get emergency calls from the hospital and sign autographs if they're famous).

Yet somehow they still seem disconnected. I guess that's what you get for riding EA's cash cow. One step forward, two steps back...

EDIT: Attached JadeElliot's Tutorial for the Sims 2.

[Trystiane]

Expansions may better integrate the pieces, but I'm sure EA will still manage to take more steps back.

[LauraW]

I used Jade's model in my game play and I miss it terribly. I am still hoping for an OFB type pack but I have a feeling they are moving away from strategy in this game and more toward rpg-like features.

[CharmingFirewaller]

Yeah, me too. When they announced World Adventures I had a feeling they were headed in that direction and I wasn't pleased. Speaking of which, I don't have the EP yet but I've been hearing a lot about a cash register. Does it only show up in travel destinations or can our sims actually use them at home (or community lots) to sell items? It would be neat if they could. We could set up home businesses, have yard sales, etc.

I really REALLY miss the OFB ticket machine. I mean, it didn't function the way I'd have wanted it to but considering the things we lack in the Sims 3, I'd definitely settle for it. I wish someone would create a mod (*wink* Inge *wink) that would allow players to charge sims for walking through doors and using items like the buffet table. I remember downloading objects like that for the Sims 2 even before OFB was released.

On a happier note, we do have certain content available that could make this system work. The "Give" interaction mod by treeag from MTS2 allows transactions so we could, for example, transfer items from our sims' inventories to the mayor's when paying taxes. Of course, that would take forever but it's all I can think of for now. A better alternative would be something similar to Monique's Automatic Payment Mod for the Sims 2. God, I miss those days...

Any other ideas?

[Klinn]

I've been hearing a lot about a cash register. Does it only show up in travel destinations or can our sims actually use them at home (or community lots) to sell items? It would be neat if they could. We could set up home businesses, have yard sales, etc.

From what I recall when looking at the cash registers while in Town Edit mode, they were labelled something like "Bookstore Cash Register", "Food Cash Register", etc. So I believe they are linked to specific types of inventories, you can't use them to sell arbitrary items. Think of them as a different way to browse a shop's inventory. Instead of the sim disappearing into the bookstore and a list popping up, you use the "Buy Items" command attached to the register (or clerk) to bring up the menu of items for sale.
 
But it would be interesting to see if a cash register could be modded to work with one's own list of items. Dunno where the current lists are defined, and they do change somewhat from time to time.
 

[CharmingFirewaller]

Oh, I see. So the cash registers are pretty much just tiny rabbit holes accompanied by NPCs? I hope they get modded too. Right now, even with "owned" community lots, it still doesn't feel like the sim actually owns them. It would be nice if we could decide what food to serve at the Bistro or pick out the uniforms at the Hospital. These are little things but they can make a huge difference when customizing our towns.

[chann]

On a happier note, we do have certain content available that could make this system work. The "Give" interaction mod by treeag from MTS2 allows transactions so we could, for example, transfer items from our sims' inventories to the mayor's when paying taxes. Of course, that would take forever but it's all I can think of for now. A better alternative would be something similar to Monique's Automatic Payment Mod for the Sims 2. God, I miss those days...

twallan's Supercomputer has a Money Transfer feature, though I don't know if it's automatic.

By the way, JadeElliott's site is still available (partially) on the Wayback Machine.

[J. M. Pescado]

Oh, I see. So the cash registers are pretty much just tiny rabbit holes accompanied by NPCs? I hope they get modded too. Right now, even with "owned" community lots, it still doesn't feel like the sim actually owns them. It would be nice if we could decide what food to serve at the Bistro or pick out the uniforms at the Hospital. These are little things but they can make a huge difference when customizing our towns.

This is possible, but would involve procedures that could break compatibility should you ever remove the mod that enabled it. Do you WANT a vendor lock-in scenario?

[Heinel]

I used Jade's model in my game play and I miss it terribly. I am still hoping for an OFB type pack but I have a feeling they are moving away from strategy in this game and more toward rpg-like features.

Well, gardening and nectar making is sort of like a strategy game.  And it would make sense that if they continue to add stuff like this they should also have an OFB type expansion.  It's pretty underwhelming seeing your well-aged nectar just go poof when you sell them...

[CharmingFirewaller]

On a happier note, we do have certain content available that could make this system work. The "Give" interaction mod by treeag from MTS2 allows transactions so we could, for example, transfer items from our sims' inventories to the mayor's when paying taxes. Of course, that would take forever but it's all I can think of for now. A better alternative would be something similar to Monique's Automatic Payment Mod for the Sims 2. God, I miss those days...

twallan's Supercomputer has a Money Transfer feature, though I don't know if it's automatic.

By the way, JadeElliott's site is still available (partially) on the Wayback Machine.

Thanks, I thought twallan's Supercomputer only dealt with town events and aging. Now that I know it has a money transfer feature, I'm trying it out.

And Pescado, by breaking compatibility do you mean that the hood would no longer work if the mod were to be taken out or would the entire game cease to function properly? If it's the latter then I guess we can forget about it then. Better safe than sorry, right?

I used Jade's model in my game play and I miss it terribly. I am still hoping for an OFB type pack but I have a feeling they are moving away from strategy in this game and more toward rpg-like features.

Well, gardening and nectar making is sort of like a strategy game.  And it would make sense that if they continue to add stuff like this they should also have an OFB type expansion.  It's pretty underwhelming seeing your well-aged nectar just go poof when you sell them...

That's a good point.They really should expand on that and give our sims more to do. I can hardly wait for the restaurant podium to return. And I've always wondered...why are there rabbit holes for police officers and doctors but firefighters and pizza delivery people come out of nowhere? They could have simply added a fire station and pizzeria (or used the Diner instead of giving it the same function as the Bistro).

[LauraW]

The problem with the cash registers is that they randomly assign sims. So if I want Mitch Becker to run the little shop I made, I can't assign him to the register. A simple mod to assign folks to a register would be nice. Also, a way to pay sims that are working that register. While it would be nice if the pay check comes from the shop owner, its not necessary I suppose.

I know people have made unemployed careers. Maybe a self-employed career with some income so that our sims that work in shops actually get money. Yes, we can do this individually but that means they starve if we are not playing them or worse, they get a rabbit hole job.

I would like to make a world where the economy is a somewhat closed system. I don't mind so much if some folks, such as the doctors, teachers, etc. work at rabbit holes where the money comes from nowhere. But if Buck Winthrop owns the local arcade and hires Mitch to work there, I would prefer the money to come from Buck rather than from nowhere. But since that might be too much, some sort of 'cash register assigned job with a salary' would be better than nothing. Also, a method for Buck to own his shop without locating it on his residential property would be nice as well.

Gardening and wine making is strategy but more a micro strategy than world strategy. Now, if one could make wine, sell it to Buck's shop and then Buck could resell it to Sims, that would be much better.

[CharmingFirewaller]

It's a shame that the cash registers pick random sims. Does this mean anyone on the lot could get picked or is a new NPC generated for the job? Either way, it's always better to have the option to choose, like you said. And at the moment, even if a sim owns the Grocery Store, the items being sold and money being made seem to come out of nowhere too.

In a closed system the items available at the store should come from the sims themselves (farmers, fishermen, etc.) and purchased by other sims (buyers) whose money would end up in the producers' accounts. At the moment the stores never seem to run out of stock and this makes gameplay not only easy but unrealistic. What the farmers grow should affect the rest of the community because if the Riverview farm suffers, where is the Grocery Store getting all those vegetables from?

Right now, farming and fishing only benefit the sims involved. They can either eat what they grow/catch or sell, but this has no effect on the rest of the town.

[J. M. Pescado]

What the farmers grow should affect the rest of the community because if the Riverview farm suffers, where is the Grocery Store getting all those vegetables from? Right now, farming and fishing only benefits the sims involved. They can either eat what they grow/catch or sell, but this has no effect on the rest of the town.

Presumably, stuff is imported from the World, because all the items in the store are of very bad quality, suggesting that they've been left on the truck way past their sell-by dates.

[MrMugg]

Just for nostalgia's sake, I went and visited some of my favorite Sims 2 sites and came across tutorials by a player named Jade Elliott (who probably hasn't even purchased the Sims 3 since she up and left long before its release). For those who are familiar with her old blog you'd probably know how fond she was of the integrated economy in her game. Transactions were made between sims, residents paid taxes and a mayor was even elected (based on relationship points and other factors, if I remember correctly). It made the town/hood come to life.

This caught my interest.  I had started a legacy town awhile ago in Sims 2 with only one sim, and my goal was to build the neighborhood up and only have businesses that were run by citizens there.  The election of mayor and taxes are really interesting, though.  I would like to learn more about that, but the Wayback Machine link doesn't come up with the site.

I would like to see something like this in Sims 3, but I'm finding it harder to believe to be possible.  It seems like EA is forcing us to play "their way", and their way certainly isn't the "awesome" way.

[LauraW]

It's a shame that the cash registers pick random sims. Does this mean anyone on the lot could get picked or is a new NPC generated for the job?

It randomly chooses an unemployed Sim in the town..and sadly, that Sim doesn't even get a paycheck!

[Zazazu]

Just for nostalgia's sake, I went and visited some of my favorite Sims 2 sites and came across tutorials by a player named Jade Elliott (who probably hasn't even purchased the Sims 3 since she up and left long before its release). For those who are familiar with her old blog you'd probably know how fond she was of the integrated economy in her game. Transactions were made between sims, residents paid taxes and a mayor was even elected (based on relationship points and other factors, if I remember correctly). It made the town/hood come to life.

This caught my interest.  I had started a legacy town awhile ago in Sims 2 with only one sim, and my goal was to build the neighborhood up and only have businesses that were run by citizens there.  The election of mayor and taxes are really interesting, though.  I would like to learn more about that, but the Wayback Machine link doesn't come up with the site.

AFAIK, I think JadeElliott used the tax level that's become the standard in most whole-hood challenges: 10%. As someone who has run several 'hoods in TS2 based off my own formulas and odd rules, I can tell you that 5% is barely felt and 20% will make it so that spawn will have to live on an empty lot with a tent until they are halfway through adulthood. Monique's computer (maintained by Chaavik over at Insim) can help handle the finances.

Not sure what she did about elections. My next Mayor was a resident in the Political career line. The closest to Mayor was pegged for the next one and moved into the mayoral mansion on the previous mayor's death day. If no sim was in the Political line, any townie who already had the job of Mayor was jerked over. Otherwise, it was a random roll among the residents.

In my two matriarchal caste 'hoods, the eldest female child of the eldest female child in the Orange/Government caste was always the next mayor and she and her compatriots from the other three castes wore tiaras in addition to their caste rings to show their status.

[CharmingFirewaller]

You're probably right, MrMugg. An integrated economy system in the Sims 3 may be too difficult to implement right now. I guess we're going to have to wait for a later EP to make it all possible. By the way, I've attached a copy of Jade Elliot's tutorial if you're interested. All credit goes to her as I haven't made any changes to it.

It's a shame that the cash registers pick random sims. Does this mean anyone on the lot could get picked or is a new NPC generated for the job?

It randomly chooses an unemployed Sim in the town..and sadly, that Sim doesn't even get a paycheck!

That does suck. A fixed salary would have been better than nothing. That way when a sim purchases an item we could at least pretend that the person behind the counter benefits from it. But no. EA would rather just let the money go "POOF!"

In my two matriarchal caste 'hoods, the eldest female child of the eldest female child in the Orange/Government caste was always the next mayor and she and her compatriots from the other three castes wore tiaras in addition to their caste rings to show their status.

That sounds like a good alternative instead of having elections and calculating skills and relationship points. And ooh, tiaras...nice touch. Got pictures? Would love to see them.

[pbox]

There is a bit of discussion on sim economy and open vs. closed systems and how the existing rabbitholes could be used etc on pages 18 and 19 of AwesomeMod requests: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,17396.450.html . JMP also comments on the doability of some aspects there.

Regarding work uniforms / food at the bistro: some things can be customised already, by way of tweaking the appropriate XML. In my own game I have overrides for all the EA careers I am using, including different uniforms, wages, work hours, performance metrics, matching opening times for the rabbitholes and so on. It does require a lot of testing but other than that it's pretty straightforward since most of it is pretty plain English and well commented. There's also a few threads in the Intestines of Trogdor on work metrics and such.

In my previous game (before I realised that the EA careers could be entirely overridden) I had no rabbitholes at all, it was purely a farming/fising community. You can already trade between sims with AM alone, no need for the "Give" interaction (although that may be nicer, I haven't tested it yet in-game). Just drag and drop stuff on the other sim, done.

[CharmingFirewaller]

There is a bit of discussion on sim economy and open vs. closed systems and how the existing rabbitholes could be used etc on pages 18 and 19 of AwesomeMod requests: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,17396.450.html . JMP also comments on the doability of some aspects there.

Regarding work uniforms / food at the bistro: some things can be customised already, by way of tweaking the appropriate XML. In my own game I have overrides for all the EA careers I am using, including different uniforms, wages, work hours, performance metrics, matching opening times for the rabbitholes and so on. It does require a lot of testing but other than that it's pretty straightforward since most of it is pretty plain English and well commented. There's also a few threads in the Intestines of Trogdor on work metrics and such.

Thanks, pbox. I'm no modder but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to read up on stuff and find out what can and can't be done. I'm gonna go check those threads out.