How to fix conflicting mods?

[tomomi]

I am sure you guys read enough of the Error 12/13 on save over the other thread in this forum.  I am starting this thread so I know I won't hi-jack that topic.

I recently came through with bombardment of error 12/13 to 90% of my saves.  TS3 is unplayable if I can not even save my games.  After a few days of diagnosis, I conclude that this is a mod conflict problem.

This is what I have for computer:
- Intel Quad Core CPU 9450
- 8Gb RAM
- ATI 4890 video card with 1Gb RAM
- Vista 64 bit.

Despite most of MTS moderators trying to convince that my computer is not fast enough for TS3 or my CPU/GPU is overheating, my computer is fine with very stable temperature and fan speed, etc... 

TS3: version 1.46 (latest update as I am writing this)
- Lots from MTS
- Most (if not all) objects and clothings from MTS (hacks, cars, hairs, etc....)
- Hairs also from peggysims, Rosa, Stylistsims, etc...
- A few mods from Stylistsims, simcave, mangosims (a french site), simlogical (just Ignes Jones windows and doors)
- Latest Awesomemod (updated whenever there is a message popping up in TS3)

Despite many people telling me certain mods are "bad" and not compatible with latest updates, I beg to differ.  I used the 50% method (as my last resort) to test all mods.  After 20+ hours of testing with about 40 different save games and 3 page long of note, I find out that no mod is "incompatible" with TS3.  They simply don't like each other.

1) First I remove all mods, TS3 could run for 24 hours straight (I left it on all night) and next day or two it can save perfectly (5 saves in a roll)
2) I added mods in slowly, starting with Hacks (things I can't live without): No censor, no intro, floor thickness, no jealousy, better shadow/less blue night, faster learning, etc.... TS3 saves perfectly.

That is how I approached it.  To get the story short, I tried different combinations of mods and test them.  All mods work VERY WELL with TS3, just not with other mods.  Example: my "cars" group doesn't like my "Hairs" group, and my "Hairs" group likes my "Clothings" group 50% of the time (50% to save without error 12/13).  But these groups work perfectly alone.  I  tried playing for 30 minutes and saved about 5 times in a roll, no complaint.  What more funny is mods of the same types dont seem to conflict with each other.  "Hairs" consists of all possible hairs from MTS, Peggyzone, Rosa, Linnanet, Stylistsims, etc... and they like each other just fine.  Same with "Objects" group where I get any buyable objects from all over: they work well with each other. 

I opt Awesome mod in and out and it doesn't seem to affect the outcome at all: if each test means to save, it saves with or without Awesome mod.  If it is meant to have error 13, Awesome mod doesn't help nor make it worse.  With my loves for 1000+ mods I got, I really don't like to live without them.  "Hacks" are important to keep, but I also don't want to be stuck with EA default hairs, clothings, objects, or cars.  So I am thinking about fixing them.
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What I find interesting is the object or CAS mods that conflict, not the hack mods (hack mods, including Awesome mod, work perfectly with any given group of mods I test).  I am attempting to rebuild these mods, maybe put them through CTU, s3pe, etc... and resave them (or save to another file names).

What I don't know is what exactly causing them to conflict?  Duplicate resourcekey?  Bad/missing components when the mod was put together?  Thing about these mods is they don't even have an XML file attached to edit or check for error.

Please discuss.  The key to revelation and freedom is near: freedom to play TS3 without fear of Error 13.

[nanacake]

If there was already a thread of this topic you probably were better to post there.

The word mod shouldn't be really applied to all your downloads-objects, meshes, xml mods or otherwise? It is too confusing to say that. Most of the kind of object you mentioned, isn't fully tested to begin with. Some of the creators names you also posted are using beta tools created by others freely (that are still being developed) sometimes without even fully testing their work, they release items that error your game. You can not expect to run 1000+ downloads from multiple creators (some who don't care but to only take money from fools) and not have errors. (Really, a thousand?) You already answered your own topic question, to sort this items manually to find the conflicting package.

Downloading all ''mods'' you could find from just anyone, you insist on keeping them is asking for conflicts. Modding had gone quickly for TS3, but it will never be supported to the full extent you could expect to have in TS2, for the most part working together harmoniously(if it did not have a global modification conflict).

Remove the tight pants or hold your breath trying to keep your drainpipes on?

Download for quality and know your game's/computer limit, just not understanding how people want so much crap in their game that it renders unplayable, then to ask why this happened to them.

[tomomi]

The word mod shouldn't be really applied to all your downloads-objects, meshes, xml mods or otherwise? It is too confusing to say that. Most of the kind of object you mentioned, isn't fully tested to begin with. Some of the creators names you also posted are using beta tools created by others freely (that are still being developed) sometimes without even fully testing their work, they release items that error your game. You can not expect to run 1000+ downloads from multiple creators (some who don't care but to only take money from fools) and not have errors. (Really, a thousand?) You already answered your own topic question, to sort this items manually to find the conflicting package.

The word "mod" is somewhat a generic term, it describes anything that is not made by EA.  Let me know if a better word to use if you disagree with me calling them "mods".  You made it sound more serious than it should.  I am sure most MTS designers tested before they uploaded.  But more importantly, most serious TS3 players would play with more than just 2 mods in their folders, don't you agree?   

Downloading all ''mods'' you could find from just anyone, you insist on keeping them is asking for conflicts. Modding had gone quickly for TS3, but it will never be supported to the full extent you could expect to have in TS2, for the most part working together harmoniously(if it did not have a global modification conflict).

Download for quality and know your game's/computer limit, just not understanding how people want so much crap in their game that it renders unplayable, then to ask why this happened to them.

I honestly just don't download ... just about anything I find.  Actually, there is a different between having 10,000 mods and game performance.  It does affect initial load time, but once the game is running, its performance more or less contributed by what you put on the lot.  I have tried a few 60x60 lots, they look amazing but totally unplayable.  On the contrary to your belief, not all mods are in conflicts with each other.  The ones that I think would conflict (hack/core mod, aka global mods in TS2) don't seem to do so.  Yet, some simple objects/clothing/hair mods conflict with each other.  At this point there is no guarantee any given 2 mods would not conflict with each other no matter how "quality" your mods are.

Yet again, I am starting this thread not to show off how many million mods I have, nor to complain when I overdose my computer.  Rather, I am on a quest to figure out why mods conflict.  Most modders I know on MTS tested their mods before they uploaded.  So I am very sure they don't just casually put something together and ship away without even seeing how it would look in game.  But now we ask why it works on their games but not on ours?  This is the point of this thread to discuss about the possible causes as we go along in progress with the TS3 modding community.  Seriously, if anyone is on here, you must be playing TS3 with more than 2 mods.

[zepherine]

I felt compelled to reply to this thread, as I also have just under nine hundred files in my "Mods" folder.  This does not include items in the "My Documents/Downloads folder. 

My game runs smoothly, with no conflicts of any kind.  Only once have I encountered an issue with a downloaded item rendering my game unplayable.  A pattern (of all things) caused my game to balk at loading.  It simply never loaded at all.  When I removed the offending pattern, the problem disappeared. 

My downloads run the usual gamut of mods, hairs, patterns, and game objects.  My computer has only two Gigs of RAM, and my CPU is an Intel Pentium IV, 3.2 GHz. 

I use AwesomeMod, nearly all of Twallan's great mods, and a host of lesser tweaks.  I cannot help but suspect that some issue other than mutual compatibility is at work on your system. 

[tomomi]

@jordi:  Yes, that is what I have been thinking too, right?  I mean some very simple object mods should not conflict right?  The hack mods should be the culprit right?  But after a few tests, I am unable to explain the following: I put all hack mods in, and switch out certain groups of object mods (hairs, cars, deco objects, clothings) and guess what?  Each group of these mods work fine with hacks.  Hairs, Clothing, etc... work fine with hacks.  YET Hairs dont like cars, cars dont like clothings, etc... error 13 on saves non stop, in fact, non of the games can save with any of these "non-hacks" mods you describe.  I am just as surprised as you are.  But what can we do?  I gotta accept and fact and work on it.

@zepherine: Actually I lied, I don't think at this stage I possible have 1000 mods.  But it's just plenty.  I don't think any patterns cause me trouble yet, maybe its the fact I don't like patterns that much that I only downloaded 10 sets of patterns (all from MTS) and they are part of my "stable" mods.  But I know what you mean: at this point I am certain any mod is possible of causing trouble.  Your computer is way weaker than mine, yet your "900" mods can run smoothly, I am so envious.  Can we trade computer?

Now I am working on placing different mods in numerous of priority.  Like 400, 401, 440, 450, 460 .... hope this will iron out some of the Resourcekey conflicts if that is the case.  I also plan to run the hairs thru CTU or DABOOBS (yes it s a program name) and reconstruct as brand new hairs.  These programs are from MTS.

[forbiddenjoy]

I seem to be having a manic moment and don't mind sticking my neck out on the chopping block tonight.  I rarely respond to posts anymore because the last time I did so was hours from having surgery and I did not have the time to search through a bunch of details that did me no good.  However as it was pointed out to me that was my own stupidity.

I decided to add my details in case they help you with what you are searching for.  I also feel the need to respond because I am one of those idiots with over 1000 downloads, and yet my system basically runs smoothly.  I am not going to make major changes until the next expansion comes out.  It has been my experience that with each expansion EA causes a lot more turmoil with all their mistakes, so I have decided to deal with any problems at that time all at once instead of tearing out my hair a little at a time trying to fix every little problem daily.

Even though I have many downloads - I only download from certain sources.  I don't download just any file - I download for quality work. I am a detail fanatic, and each of my SIMs have a personality of their own. I don't like using the same files over and over again. I have collected many files to feed my desire for having unique SIMs.

I am running Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 3 and will do so until my software will no longer run on it.  Maybe by then all the kinks will be worked out of the newer systems.  My processor is a AMD Phenom II Quad Core - 3.00 gigahertz speed. My graphics card is a Radeon 4890 with 1 GB RAM.  I have 4.00 GB of system RAM, I just noticed I have two empty slots for more ram but my husband is telling me I will have to upgrade my operating system to use it.  I guess I know what I want for Christmas in the future at some point.

I have 860 files in my Mods folder and 1,495 files in my downloads folder.  I have a few hacks - one changes the lighting and adds shadows that look more realistic. One makes the baby bottle a normal color and of course I have gotten rid of the censor blur and I have default skins.  It bothers me more to see body parts that should be there that have been cut off; I have never been offended by realistic bodies. 

Most of my downloads are patterns, clothing, hair, a few lots that I feel were exceptionally done.  I do have a NoCD crack because I hate having to switch out my CD all the time.  I prefer to keep it put away safely so it stays in good condition.  I would love to know why EA has such a problem with that.  I have also found that my system runs much more smoothly running the game in this manner. I just recently added a mod to get rid of the intro but as of yet I have not played the game to see if it works yet.

My husband built this system for me in April so I am still getting used to it.  I had awesomemod on my previous system and it ran smoothly.  However when I switched to this system I could not get awesomemod to work.  My game crashes after seeing the SIMs 3 logo.  I spent an entire day trying to fix the problem with no results so I gave up.  I tried to add awesomemod to the game after installing it with nothing added and it still crashed. The only conclusion I came up with is that the mod must not like something in my new system.  My game runs smoothly - it never lags even on huge lots.  When I play it is for long periods of time, sometimes I will leave it on two full days and still no lagging.  The only time I have had a little lag is when I make major changes building and that's after spending hours doing so.  I have no lag on busy lots, I have parties with the maximum amount of guests with no problems. I'm very happy with how my system performs.

Problems I have had have been minor and as you have noticed in your own game seem to be from custom content and not the hacks.  I downloaded a hair file that causes some trouble when the SIM ages.  The hair sticks out of their stomach until I can get to a mirror and reset it.  I decided to just live with resetting it because it's a hair that I really like.  The other problem began just recently.  It seems that a bathing suit that I added to the game has taken over the EA whole bathing suit.  If the SIM has that in their collection of clothing it makes them nude when they wear it.  It's not one of my favorite pieces of clothing, however it is a bit of a problem for my insane SIMs.  I use the insane trait as the trait passed down for my legacy family.  Some of those have this suit in their collection and because an insane SIM will wear whatever they want - whenever they want even if it's inappropriate this makes life for my SIMs rather interesting.  My insane SIM will stroll around stark naked in some of the most inappropriate times.  Again I decided to just deal with it because I don't feel like rummaging through my files to find out which one is guilty.

I'm not sure my experiences will be any help, but there it is.

[tomomi]

Hi forbiddenjoy, thanks for replying.

I am sad to hear you can not run awesome mod on your new computer.  I am not a huge fan of awesome mod because it is "too powerful".  That is right, too powerful.  It does so much for TS3 and it even pops up a little message asking me to update at TS3 loading screen.  While I have nothing but admiration to those programmers who made Awesome mod and the like, I feel such core mod just messes too much with TS3, while TS3 itself is not anywhere close to being a stable game.  However, awesome mod is truly awesome, it helps so much when I need it, especially loading with no CD, nuke inventory, Nuke in general (especially reserved for Repoman).

Your system can not even use up to 4Gb RAM because Windows XP can only see 3Gb RAM.  Although in my mind it should be adequate for TS3.  You said you run big lots smoothly, by that you mean how big?  If you have a spare time, would you be able to choose a few "castles" from MTS at 60x60 size and put 2-3 sims in there, is it going to be smooth for you?  For my system, 40x40 is all I can handle.  My only real big lot is the EA default central park.  Nothing else is bearable as it is a slideshow instead of a game.  True I refuse to lower the graphic details on sims, objects, but I feel with my computer spec, I should not have to yield to TS3.  Besides, switching graphic setting in and out all the time is quite a hassle.  So I just don't play 60x60 altogether.  Ack, sorry, went off topic.

Regarding cosmic problem like hair sticking out from stomach like you describe, I can totally deal with that.  Although, I have similar issues: sometimes objects, or even sims, start to lose texture but instead replaced with 1 color mesh.  Example: a sim with all blue skin (except the head).  It is an indication that the object is corrupted, I have to get rid of it somehow before saving, or even a save will result in Error 13.  But it usually happens during long time play and I can fault it with corrupted memory issues.

Forbiddenjoy, thanks for the input.   I am envious of your ability to play smoothly.  Let me know if you are just as smooth on 60x60 lots as well.  And for awesome mod, I suggest, beside updating with latest mod, you should try the awesome config and eliminate some "junk" settings in there.  For starter, disable autosave.  Then, use Indie Compatibility program to search out other "Core" mods and remove it.  Indie Checker gives a lot of false alarm.  Don't get freaked out if you have 2000 conflicts.  I just use it to find Core and Tuning mods. 

[forbiddenjoy]

Your system can not even use up to 4Gb RAM because Windows XP can only see 3Gb RAM.  Although in my mind it should be adequate for TS3.

When I told my husband I see two empty slots in here, he said, "It will hold more RAM but it will be just be sitting there doing nothing."  What I meant by future Christmas present is when I'm ready to upgrade to a newer operating system I want a BIG FAT RAM to go with it.

About trying out the 60 x 60 lot - I will check and see what I have loaded already.  If I don't have something that size I will hunt one down and try it out.  My preference is the medium sized lots.  I have been playing on the huge lot for my legacy family and the house has gotten rather huge.  Bigger than I really like, not because it plays badly but because by the time the SIM walks from one edge of the lot to the other they are hungry and have to shower and pee again and then after they shower they want to go to bed.  It just seems like the big lots are more work than they are worth. If they are pregnant you might as well forget it.  I sometimes feel like building a pregnancy room with just bathroom plumbing, a bed and a fridge and letting her live in there until she has the baby.

I'm not certain when I will get to this because I have had a lot going on in my family at the moment.  Two deaths in the family in one week and one of them was my 16 year old niece.  She has fought Cystic Fibrosis all her life.  It's just been a rough time right now.

I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly about the hair file.  Do you think my file may have gotten corrupted?  If that's the case I might try to download the file again and replace it, but as I said I can fix the problem.  Although it's annoying I can deal with that.  As for awesomemod - I tried using the method to cut out the things I don't need but still it crashed on me. The other program the Indie one - I see no difference when I have it in my game so I left it out.  I did use the tool to check for conflicts.  The few that it listed didn't cause any problems so I just ignored them because I wanted both files. 

I will get back to you when I get a chance to play the 60 x 60 lot unless my legacy lot counts.  Right now there are 8 people living on it and two ghosts. They have parties all the time with the maximum number of guests.  I get a very small amount of lag if several things happen at once - such as the maid showing up as the husband gets a raise while his wife is giving birth to triplets and the school bus just showed up to take the older kids to school.  But the amount of lag is just a few moments - it doesn't bother me.  The game loads up and shuts down quickly and the CAS screen comes up quickly when I want to plan their clothing or change their appearance.  I'm basically a happy camper.

I was curious about why the game seems to not like to get along with certain files myself.  It seems like every computer handles the game differently.

[forbiddenjoy]

I did find a few 60x60 lots that I liked this morning - when I get a chance I will play them and let you know how they worked.

[nanacake]

The word "mod" is somewhat a generic term, it describes anything that is not made by EA.  Let me know if a better word to use if you disagree with me calling them "mods".  You made it sound more serious than it should.  I am sure most MTS designers tested before they uploaded.  But more importantly, most serious TS3 players would play with more than just 2 mods in their folders, don't you agree?   

Yes, and no for MTS downloads. Do not assume because it comes from MTS that it has been tested thoroughly; it varies from creator. I have downloaded things completely broken from MTS and had to go back to report to the creator. Then a creator had told me they did not intend on fixing their download right away so they removed it to abstain any effort. This creator continued to post new sets that also had the same texture, or broken meshes without taking any advice. This is very frustrating so I would not download from creators like this. But there are some amazing creators who constantly put quality work from MTS. I do frequently visit their page. It's a great site for keeping free content and help guides. The moderation process is not perfect. The use of the word mods as all in one was confusing in your questions, I don't understand how I made anything sound serious but it is irrelevant.

It does affect initial load time, but once the game is running, its performance more or less contributed by what you put on the lot.

This is not always true for patterns. Custom patterns can worsen the memory leak problems in CAST mode on some systems.
Opening CAST and trying to change category/pattern colors becomes incredibly unresponsive and slow. Question marked tiles may show as a replace for broken or not loading patterns, errors in graphics can occur in CAS (skin/eye textures plastering to a body) and a system restart will be needed to fix the problem. Corrupted LOD files from hair meshes on sims within zoomed out camera view can crash the client, or hurt performance with incredibly bloated meshes see this thread about that.

[tomomi]

@nanacake:  Do you want to point out the good and bad creators in MTS, I just want to avoid the bad ones ^^.  I do agree, custom patterns take longer to load on CAS.  I have quite a bunch of wood patterns, and it would freeze about 3 seconds before I can move each time I load in Wood.  I only have "?" tiles in legacy lots, how weird is that?  It does annoy me but not to the point I want to break my computer.  I took a few days off testing my mods (since TS3 is still unplayable for me).  But I am going to resume.

@forbiddenjoy:  I am more envious of you.  Even on EA 60x60 lots I have problem.  It is not so much of a huge lag, it is just there, like your screen is wearing a 20lbs chain, feeling a little jerky when playing.  Well, originally I wanted a huge house for my virtual self.  But yes, I do realize my sims get lost in there.  So 60x60 is definitely NOT for me.  However, when play Sims, we are playing other sims too.  So in a way I am hoping to be able to play a mansion of a very rich family.  Or I plan to convert some of the 60x60 lots into some nice community lots that have more to offer than Central Park.  Let me know how those custom 60x60 work for you.  Oh, you didn't mention the graphic settings on your computer.  Regarding your problem with hair ... does it happen all the time? If it only happens once a full moon, dont worry about it.  Its just probably error in memory compression, which has a chance to happen to anything.  But if the hair problem bothers you that much, I suggest redownload it or just avoid it altogether.

[forbiddenjoy]

I finally got a chance to play a lot today - it says it's a 64x64. If you were already envious of how my computer runs you're going to hate me after reading the next sentence.  I realized last night I forgot to mention my graphic settings - I run everything on high, even the edge smoothing (I think that's what it's called). My husband said that is what causes the most lag in most games, so I set it lower for about 2 hours and I couldn't stand it.  I moved it back to high to see if it caused lag and it hasn't so I left it there.  The graphics just look so much nicer with the smooth edges.  My husband built this system for my birthday with the SIMs 3 in mind because he knows how much I love the game and I get very upset when it doesn't run right.  So far I have my Sim moved into a huge house.  It's way too huge for my liking - it even has a partial kitchen upstairs.  I like the house, but I don't know my way around it yet and I keep having to hunt for bathrooms.  It has room for 4 cars.  There has been no lag whatsoever.  I didn't turn the game off it's sitting on my toolbar and ready to play when I get a chance again.  My 2 year old granddaughter is with me and will be with me all day.  She loves to sit in my lap and watch - when she hears the SIM music and sees the SIM icon loading she runs through the rooms singing, "Grandma's making babies!"  I'm sure I will get a chance to play it some more later in the day when she is up.  I will try to get my SIM pregnant and get some children on the lot and see how it runs.  Then I have a custom house of the "Lake House" I'm dying to play.  I am really surprised I have no lag, I really expected a little.  I might get some lag if I leave it running for several hours (several meaning a whole day) and play - sometimes I do that and I don't turn the game off for two or three days.  I'm going to have to tell my husband he did real good.  I have been wanting a version of his gaming computer he advertises for years - and I was so shocked when he surprised me with it this year.

I only wish I knew why it doesn't want to play nice with the awesomemod. I really liked features of that mod and it doesn't make sense to me that my old system would run it and this one doesn't.  I've learned that the SIMs games can be very fickle.

As for that hair file.  It only does that when they age up after a birthday, otherwise it is just fine.  I have to change the hair and change it back to that file after they age up. I usually make changes to their appearance and clothing at that time anyway.  It's a little annoying but not really bothersome enough to drive me too crazy. It does do it every time they age up - it always has so it has to be a problem with that file.  I don't think any other file or mod is causing it to happen.