How are my offenders suppose to eat?

[Sigmund]

I suspect you misinterpreted my use of the word power. Regardless, my original point still stands: if you live in a community in which it is common for employers and teachers to abuse their positions and flirt with someone who, by definition, is incapable of rejecting their advances without fear of repercussion-- well, you should should consider moving. Two of the examples you provided didn't support the point you were trying to make, which seems to be that flirting is a daily and harmless occurrence. In both of these situations, it's neither acceptable nor harmless.

I have absolutely no idea what a senator or a garbageman has to do with anything, since it seems unlikely that either one of them would be flirting with the other to begin with.

Edited because it is late, and my typing skills are failing.

[Anonym]

As to Liz...with saying that that option isn't in the game...did you read what I wrote?  I am talking about REAL LIFE, not the game.  I'm refering to real people, not the 12 or 6 in the game.  Real world.

Any number of reasonable, intelligent people would read your post as "It's no big deal for adults to flirt with kids." The examples you then chose to illustrate this "flirting", however, are ridiculously low on actual flirtation. Teacher pays attention to his unexpected guest? That's not flirting. Guy wants to hire the more attractive applicant? Certainly rooted in sexual attraction, but it has nothing to do with adults flirting with minors. It's irrelevant.

Now, did you read what I wrote? Because I'm well aware that there's a big difference between the game and REAL LIFE. And part of that difference is that where REAL LIFE might have a slightly flirtatious interaction between an adult and a minor that isn't cause for alerting the authorities, in the game, there is no such thing. IN THE GAME, all flirtation is by definition romantic/sexual in nature. So I find it perfectly "realistical" that a REAL LIFE adult would be labeled a pedo for attempting to interact with a minor in the ways the game recognizes as flirting.

The game recognizes "compliment personality" as flirting.  So if I, a straight YA male, told a 16 year old girl, "You are one of the most fun people I've ever talked to!  You're smart, personable, and have a great sense of humor!  I'd love to spend more time with you!" then I'd be labeled a pedo?  For one thing, if  even if I were specifically attracted to 16 year old girls, I'd have ephebophilia rather than pedophilia in the clinical sense, and psychiatrists don't even consider ephebophilia a disorder (that's in the article I linked to), while they obviously consider pedophilia one.

The big issue is whether TS3 teens are more "12" or 16.  If they're 12, then even my example "compliment personality" would seem very creepy from an adult (though still not criminal unless you replace "spend more time" with "have sex").  Given that they look 16ish, go to high school, act with as much maturity as real-life 16 year olds, and drive cars, I consider them 16.

And if they looked and acted 12 in the game, then no one who isn't a pedo would find them attractive.  As it is and I quoted, even many normal (non-ephebophilia) adults find teens in late puberty somewhat arousing-- and they're too old for real pedos.  Real pedos, as sick as this is, will find the child models in the game more arousing than the young adults or the teens.

[blackninja]

Regardless, my original point still stands: if you live in a community in which it is common for employers and teachers to abuse their positions and flirt with someone who, by definition, is incapable of rejecting their advances without fear of repercussion-- well, you should should consider moving. Two of the examples you provided didn't support the point you were trying to make, which seems to be that flirting is a daily and harmless occurrence. In both of these situations, it's neither acceptable nor harmless.

I was in no way, shapy, or form trying to make a point that it is a harmless occurence, but yes I am trying to state that it is a fairly common.  And what you are defining is much different than what I am. I am not talking about people abusing their positions to make advancements on someone who is afraid to do anything because they are of a lower standing than the other person.  I do not know how you came to this conclusion either...and in your definition if any physical contact would be made that would be technically classified as rape...I'm not talking about that in any sense.  I believe that you have gravely misinturpretted the point I was trying to convey...

[Sigmund]

I am not talking about people abusing their positions to make advancements on someone who is afraid to do anything because they are of a lower standing than the other person.

Have you ever seen how many older men flirt with young girls?  Teachers, employeers, neighbors, everyone. 

I think you can see the contradictory quality of your two statements for yourself. Additionally, I'm unclear what "definition" you're referring to, as I never provided one.

[J. M. Pescado]

The game recognizes "compliment personality" as flirting.  So if I, a straight YA male, told a 16 year old girl, "You are one of the most fun people I've ever talked to!  You're smart, personable, and have a great sense of humor!  I'd love to spend more time with you!" then I'd be labeled a pedo?

HELL YES. Just the fact that you INITIATED CONTACT with a *12* outside of a professional context is CREEPY.

[Liz]

...I find it perfectly "realistical" that a REAL LIFE adult would be labeled a pedo for attempting to interact with a minor in the ways the game recognizes as flirting.

The game recognizes "compliment personality" as flirting.  So if I, a straight YA male, told a 16 year old girl, "You are one of the most fun people I've ever talked to!  You're smart, personable, and have a great sense of humor!  I'd love to spend more time with you!" then I'd be labeled a pedo?

If you're exporting sim scenarios to the real world, yes, you would because "compliment personality" is fixed to the FLIRT branch of the tree. You do not find it in any sort of "casual conversation" options; for a sim, it is only available as a flirtation. Yes, "compliment appearance" is also a flirt. It is not "RL pedo" to tell your nephew he looks adorable in his Halloween costume. But the game does not have a "say something nice to nephew about his costume" option. To get to "compliment appearance/personality" you must first go to flirt.

Completely separate from TS3, if you in RL said the above to a teen, it would sound creepy as hell. But the original point was about whether an action that was labeled pedo in the game would also be construed as such in RL. I maintain that it would, given that to reach "compliment appearance" the speaker has already chosen "flirt" as a means of communication. The speaker has determined to flirt and then chosen what might otherwise be an "innocent enough" comment from those available, but the fact of the matter is that if she's complimenting a 12's personality or appearance, she has already, by definition, chosen to flirt with this kid. How she does it isn't really irrelevant from that moment on because she's already standing in pedotown.

[blackninja]

I am not talking about people abusing their positions to make advancements on someone who is afraid to do anything because they are of a lower standing than the other person.

Have you ever seen how many older men flirt with young girls?  Teachers, employeers, neighbors, everyone. 

I think you can see the contradictory quality of your two statements for yourself. Additionally, I'm unclear what "definition" you're referring to, as I never provided one.

No, I cannot see the contradictoy quality of my statements, because there is none besides the one that you yourself are making through your own interpretation, which is very, very wrong.  I am saying that it is an occurance that happens through a multitude of platforms.  Just because I say teachers, doesn't mean I'm implying that they are abusing their power to make advances in the way you are thinking.  Honestly, wtf, how can you tell me what I am saying when I am the one saying it.  The point I am trying to convey is clear in my head and I am putting it down in words on this forum, the problem is that with putting down in text one's ideas, comes to fact that that text cannot hold to ability to convey one's emotions, tone,  and the full depth of one's inner reasonings.  Those things are left for the reader of the text to define as they see fit through their understanding of the text.  And you, ma'dam, are wrongfully identifing the text to an extreme.

[Liz]

I think you can see the contradictory quality of your two statements for yourself.

Honestly, wtf, how can you tell me what I am saying when I am the one saying it.  The point I am trying to convey is clear in my head and I am putting it down in words on this forum, the problem is that with putting down in text one's ideas, comes to fact that that text cannot hold to ability to convey one's emotions, tone,  and the full depth of one's inner reasonings.  Those things are left for the reader of the text to define as they see fit through their understanding of the text.  And you, ma'dam, are wrongfully identifing the text to an extreme.

Given your inability to express yourself clearly, there can often be a wide margin between what you mean to say and what you do say. When you give multiple examples containing teachers, bosses, etc., flirting with minors, students, employes... those over whom they have authority... there is an unmistakable inequality between the parties in your scenarios. Your hypothetical teacher and boss might not be purposefully exploiting their power over their "target" flirtees, but where such a discrepancy exists there is by definition an abuse of that position's authority. Just as your intent doesn't necessarily come across in what you're trying to say, what they mean by their flirtation isn't the whole of what their action means, as that inequality is an inherent part of any interaction between the parties involved.

[blackninja]

The point I was making in describing different types of people was that it occurs in nearly every part of our society.  I can clearly represent myself, but all you intellectual long time members just like to hold your chin above everyone else and try to make your point the only valid point.  THE POINT I WAS MAKING IS THAT FLIRTY SUCH OF THAT IS A COMMON, YET NOT CONDONABLE ACTION THAT HAPPENS IN NEARLY EVERY LEVEL OF OUR SOCIETY TODAY!

Go fuck yourselfs, shit.  And while your at it, try being fucking wrong for once, it might make you a little more human.  Jackasses.

[Jelenedra]

Just because it happens doesn't make it any less pedo.

[Liz]

So your point, blackninja, is that it's not acceptable for adults to flirt with minors? Then why did you call it "unrealistical" for a sim to be labeled a pedo for doing so? And why did you say (I think, anyway - your sentence was a bit hard to understand) that only in extreme cases would people find anything wrong with it?

We know perfectly well that it happens all the time in real life. Was that the entire point of all your ill-conceived examples? To show that it happens? Dude, we know it does. Thank you, Captain Obvious.

Are you trying to say that more RL people should be labeled pedos for all this inappropriate flirting they're doing? If so, why all the talk about how not a big deal it is? You say you can clearly represent yourself, but you seem to be having trouble doing just that.

[Anonym]

The game recognizes "compliment personality" as flirting.  So if I, a straight YA male, told a 16 year old girl, "You are one of the most fun people I've ever talked to!  You're smart, personable, and have a great sense of humor!  I'd love to spend more time with you!" then I'd be labeled a pedo?

HELL YES. Just the fact that you INITIATED CONTACT with a *12* outside of a professional context is CREEPY.

Well, (a) I didn't; that was hypothetical, (b) At my current age, it might be creepy with a 16 year old, but it wouldn't be at 18 or 20 or 22, and at around 20 I knew a girl who was 16 who was pretty important to me (although we never did anything sexual), and if you look at the article I linked it isn't abnormal.  I think it's kind of nutty to take the "12" definition into real life (even more so than applying it in TS3 to teens that look 16ish).

I will say, though, that to the extent I can be aroused by a group of pixels, I can just as easily be aroused by TS3 teens I create as TS3 YA's I create, and anyone who claims they are aroused by some TS3 adults but never by TS3 teens, I don't believe.  I'd believe someone who said they weren't ever at all aroused by a TS3 character as they're cartoons, but not by someone who said they were aroused by TS3 YA's but not TS3 teens.

[Mootilda]

I will say, though, that to the extent I can be aroused by a group of pixels, I can just as easily be aroused by TS3 teens I create as TS3 YA's I create, and anyone who claims they are aroused by some TS3 adults but never by TS3 teens, I don't believe.  I'd believe someone who said they weren't ever at all aroused by a TS3 character as they're cartoons, but not by someone who said they were aroused by TS3 YA's but not TS3 teens.

I think that it's time for AwesomeMod to give Anonym the pedobear trait.

[Anonym]

I will say, though, that to the extent I can be aroused by a group of pixels, I can just as easily be aroused by TS3 teens I create as TS3 YA's I create, and anyone who claims they are aroused by some TS3 adults but never by TS3 teens, I don't believe.  I'd believe someone who said they weren't ever at all aroused by a TS3 character as they're cartoons, but not by someone who said they were aroused by TS3 YA's but not TS3 teens.

I think that it's time for AwesomeMod to give Anonym the pedobear trait.

"Because most late adolescents have physical characteristics near (or in other cases, identical) to that of full-grown adults, some level of sexual attraction to persons in the age group is common among adults of all sexual orientations." (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia)

So, if you're telling me that you can be turned on by TS3 pixels but only the ones that look 20+ and never the ones that look 16, I don't believe you.  Pedos would aroused by "child" models, something we'd likely both find sick and creepy, and that's why they are seen in the way they are.

[Tingeling]

I must be blind. I don't see anything in Mootilda's post that indicates him/her being attracted to pixels. Why are you assuming that everyone else must be?

And even if the physical body of a teen is similar to a young adults, the brain isn't done cooking yet, so to speak. That means they're full of hormones and not thinking straight (not all of them, mind you) plus not having a fully functional frontal lobe to logically interpret situations with makes some girls and boys prone to get into difficult situations, such as letting themselves being lured into a relationship with an older partner that is not necessarily good for them.

Again, why are you trying so hard? It is a bunch of pixels. If you get off to that, then fine. I still think TS3 teens look like 12's, no matter how hard I squint at them. In the real world there are people who are only attracted to older women. Are they lying about that too, since it is not within your scope of imagination that a player be attracted to a certain age group within the game?

[Anonym]

Again, why are you trying so hard? It is a bunch of pixels. If you get off to that, then fine. I still think TS3 teens look like 12's, no matter how hard I squint at them. In the real world there are people who are only attracted to older women. Are they lying about that too, since it is not within your scope of imagination that a player be attracted to a certain age group within the game?

I only came to try so hard because I was accused of being a pedo, and got involved mostly because others get so labeled as well, when people don't even know what they're talking about.  I really have no illusions that anything would change Pescado's mind about the mod's treatment of the issue, but unlike most here I'm not going to watch people get dismembered for disagreeing and say nothing.

I'll admit you have a good point about some people only being attracted to older women, and I already said that I accepted that many people don't find anyone in TS3 attractive as they are just pixels.

[Tingeling]

This place is riddled with people who has been given schticks for seemingly no reason and with no regard to reality or off-site activity. Start a claim that in-game 12's are so cute and that you are attracted to them and people will soon label you a pedo. How do you avoid such an occasion? Read more of previous forum posts. If you already have been given a schtick or a nickname, try not to show any reaction toward anyone calling you it. If you react to a poke, you will be poked again. And again. That's just how MATY works. Check out Retardoland and you'll see what I mean.

And btw, on MATY there is a rule of 6. We all are considered to be 6 until we turn 12, then we are considered to be 12 until we are 18 and so on. I think that is why people are so squicked out by the fawning over 12's. All I have to say is, if you continue ranting about this, expect to feel a sharp stick up your behind.

[wizard_merlin]

The point I was making in describing different types of people was that it occurs in nearly every part of our society.  I can clearly represent myself, but all you intellectual long time members just like to hold your chin above everyone else and try to make your point the only valid point.  THE POINT I WAS MAKING IS THAT FLIRTY SUCH OF THAT IS A COMMON, YET NOT CONDONABLE ACTION THAT HAPPENS IN NEARLY EVERY LEVEL OF OUR SOCIETY TODAY!

The type of behaviour you have described doesn't happen in the way you have suggested, at least not in my part of the world.  In fact, that type of behaviour would see the adult arrested and charged with "Grooming", I am making a wild assumption that you in fact know what that means.

Also, the types of comments mentioned can, and will be treated differently, depending on how they are delivered.  

Comparing in-game and RL.  Next time you tell your sim to "complement appearance", look at the way they move and react when delivering the compliment, there is nothing innocent about it, it is clearly a sexually charged comment.  If you told a young girl that she looked nice in that same manner, you would be looked at strangely, and probably reported for inappropriate behaviour.  

If I tell my daughter and her girl friends that they look nice as they head out the door, there is nothing wrong with it, and no one would interpret it a anything but a nice, friendly, polite comment about their appearance.  However, if I sidled up beside my daughter's friend and lent in, put my head next to hers and commented/whispered how beautiful she looked, it would be viewed entirely differently and as inappropriate and creepy.  The same comment, two different methods of delivery, two different reactions.

Whether something is accepted or not is as much about the way it is delivered as opposed to what is actually said.  One delivery method is accepted and welcomed, the same comment delivered in a different way, becomes unacceptable, and wrong, and will lead you into trouble.