Any information on core mod compatability?

[misterK]

I've looked everywhere I can think of, and I can't find any information about this. I know that AwesomeMod is a core mod, and that it's incompatable with other core mods. I've heard that there is a mod in the works that will allow multiple core mods to coexist peacefully, but I can't find any information on it. Am I looking for the wrong term, is there no information as of yet, or is there no planned mod for this at all?

[JBoat]

In my opinion, it would be a far better use of your time (and of the core programmer's time for all mods concerned), if you simply suggested the features you feel are missing for addition to one or the other core mods.  Getting two complicated pieces of code that modify very deep game elements, is like trying to get two elephants to tango.  It'd be easier and more productive to get the monkies to cha-cha, and simply improve the core mods by adding new stuff.

Besides, the makers of core mods like AwesomeMod have far too many bug fixes and feature additions on their hands right now to worry about interoperability, imo.

[shannong]

In my opinion, it would be a far better use of your time (and of the core programmer's time for all mods concerned), if you simply suggested the features you feel are missing for addition to one or the other core mods.  Getting two complicated pieces of code that modify very deep game elements, is like trying to get two elephants to tango.  It'd be easier and more productive to get the monkies to cha-cha, and simply improve the core mods by adding new stuff.

Besides, the makers of core mods like AwesomeMod have far too many bug fixes and feature additions on their hands right now to worry about interoperability, imo.

Well except that Pescado is in fact working with the Indie Stone guys to see if there's a way to make AwesomeMod and the Indie Stone Story Progression Rewrite mod play nice together.  Hit the link and scroll down to see what Pescado says about it.  No promises!

http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=2685311#post2685311

[shannong]

To answer the OP's main question, they're talking about it over on Mod The Sims in the Modding Discussion forum, but I don't see how such a thing could really be accomplished other than by careful coordination between two core modders ala the comment I posted up above. Pescado explains behind the link why it's even possible to consider that AwesomeMod and ISM might be adapted to play nice together. This possibility won't exist with every core mod.

[misterK]

I see what you mean, JBoat. actually, Indie Stone's mod was exactly the one I was thinking of. i hope Pescado and Indie wil be able to pull it off.

[JBoat]

I had not heard that there was a possible mix in the works, that's an interesting bit of info.  Wouldn't count on it anytime soon however, due to the amount of work on Pes' plate at the moment. 

[J. M. Pescado]

It's not the work on my plate that's the holdup, it's the fact that they seem to be preoccupied and not quite as industrious, and therefore have not gotten back to me on it.

[moondance]

I hope it'll work out in the end.  Indie Mod is actually a lot of fun to play with, and it does keep the town moving along without clone-babies, and without it needing me to run around from house to house marrying people off. That's a huge plus.  Playing without the features from AwesomeMod that I'm accustomed to is a huge minus.  So for now, I play with one mod for a while, and then with the other--with two separate neighborhoods. 

[J. M. Pescado]

I'm contemplating a foray into Story Action Generation sometime next-week. As for the Indie-Mod thing, they haven't gotten back to me. Apparently most people are not as workaholic as I am.

[LVRugger]

I'm contemplating a foray into Story Action Generation sometime next-week. As for the Indie-Mod thing, they haven't gotten back to me. Apparently most people are not as workaholic as I am.

I haven't tried Indie Stone yet, I'm too hooked on my Supreme Commander to go elsewhere. I read their thread on MTS and I like some of how they work. If you could include something that combines Awesome's sacred families with features like "Encourage romance/marry/bear children/work/study/paint/write/fulfill ltw" with "reverse above for sacred" I would be over the moon.

[moondance]

While it would be great if the two mods could be made to work together, now that you've mentioned the possibility of another solution, I honestly think that your time might be better spent working out your own version of it.  I can already guess which things you'd do differently, and which things you wouldn't bother to do at all.  Not that there is anything wrong with how the creators chose to do the thing, but I think their approach to the game itself is somewhat different from yours, and Story Progression can certainly reflect that in a big way.

[edalbformat]

I suppose that on all I've been reading around and the constant need to evaluate this and that alternative or this or that started idea, there will be no other chance than big separated Core Modders developping exclusively a local strategy. If Core Modders cannot cooperate with each other it will take a very long time to get those separated developments to reach a size where it will start to appear common points to be merged together. I mean, players will have to choose one Core Modder and bombard with request for small adjustments when in the reality they are much more concerned with a specific line of action. We are millions of players with totally different wishes. One thing that is perfect for one player can disgust another. I recall a very simple fact that was common in TS2 where people wanted at any price to decide the gender of a baby. TS3 included this opportunity by introducing apples and watermelons user decided. I've heard already many claims of users that are absolutely against and want to wipe out this opportunity. I want to wipe those users out because it is exactly what I need to reconstruct families that are the base for my game-play. By now it seems that it won't be any casual modder other than the xml constants changers. If this situation doesn't change, there will be no other alternative than log-in every 15 minutes to make a new request. Sincerely meant, it would be much more useful to open the damned source of this game and allow several different lines of gaming. It will be what will be reached anyway if you have to learn how to program self in order to move a bunch of electronic idiots. If you get to be good enough, why not make your own game.

Maybe it is good enough if all you want out of this game is to chat online and fullfill your own social needs. I'm a lone wolf and the probability that I'll be just "one more request" doesn't please me at all. It is bad enough that I have to force me over my brain capacity and learn a lot of new complications that will be obsolete maybe by next EP or whatever crap on build. Sounds like the beginning of a new religion sekt or similar crap - "follow the mighty, no matter if you don't even know where this is gonna lead to". I'm not religious man, I want to lead my own way.

[J. M. Pescado]

[asciident]

edalbformat, that wall-o-text boiled down to whining about things that can already be changed in xml tuning (e.g. there is already a mod for apples/watermelons not affecting gender for those of us who want it) and saying you want to mod the game the way you want it.  If that's the case, learn to program. None of us can do EXACTLY what we want with the game unless we learn to mod it ourselves, and it's been that way since TS1.

[edalbformat]

Really? I'm not talking about an exclusive elite but about the majority of game players that sure didn't buy the game to learn programing. I've been modding myself since TS1 and had followed all the initial claims about stealing mental properties or something alike. Though it has become less by obvious reasons, every mod posted cause almost a war. Besides the fact that EA stated in the game that whatever it is produced belongs to them, so you cannot steal each other. It is going really to be the maximum of pain when besides having to worry about compatibility with EA you have to worry about being compatible with everyone that produces Core Mod or not. Every release will cause you to have to check several different places and we all know that modders get angry on each other and move out with all their work in the wallet. Create a new site for own releases and close it some months later. Even programs that seem to be very clever can disappear by reason of no compatibility or the creator just got fed-up of it. When you mention one specific case is just to give an example. I give a damn on if there was a mod or not. It was just an example.

[Zazazu]

We've always had to check several different sites for updates after EP. This is why you bookmark sites, and annotate sources for hacks. How is this different?

The truth is that modding for the end user is actually easier with TS3. I can easily read and edit most of the XML, though there are a few things I still haven't found. I'm not a coder. I'm not a modder. I'm a dabbler who used to code in Basic when I was 8 and who has done some visual environment coding for a very specific situation (oh, and some random defunct database coding).

There were always cases with TS2 where mods would be incompatible. In TS3, with XML mods, it's very easy to identify which mods aren't compatible. It's also easy to take two mods out there that address the same XML, analyze them, and merge them on your own.

[Kiirkas]

I'm not talking about an exclusive elite but about the majority of game players that sure didn't buy the game to learn programing.

Those who can, do.  Those who can't, download.  It's not rocket science.  No one has to learn anything to play the game, and fortunately there are any number of talented (and no-so-talented) people out there sharing their mods with the community.  Besides, it's a hell of a lot easier to mod TS3 than TS2.

It is going really to be the maximum of pain when besides having to worry about compatibility with EA you have to worry about being compatible with everyone that produces Core Mod or not. Every release will cause you to have to check several different places and we all know that modders get angry on each other and move out with all their work in the wallet. Create a new site for own releases and close it some months later. Even programs that seem to be very clever can disappear by reason of no compatibility or the creator just got fed-up of it. When you mention one specific case is just to give an example. I give a damn on if there was a mod or not. It was just an example.

Do you by any chance know anything about the Elder Scrolls community?  Especially with the Oblivion game, the modders and mod users face these problems constantly, and have for several years.  Mods always had to be checked for patch compatibility, new mods (by modders with any sense) were designed to not conflict with other major or popular mods as much as possible.  Much like TS3, when it came to overhaul mods, it used to be that THERE COULD BE ONLY ONE!  Now, in the last year, the designers and teams behind the major overhaul mods got together and created a way for all four of the major overhaul mods to work together.  And in that process they took the game experience to a whole new level.  They also managed to incorporate at least a dozen other mods into their Convergence beta.

The Elder Scrolls games have been marked by their success at making modding possible by just about anyone who wants to learn the basics.  TS2 is more difficult to mod than Oblivion, in my opinion.  Now with the release of TS3, I'd have to say that EA just jumped way ahead of Bethsoft in that department.

The problems you use as examples have always been a part of community modding, they've even been a part of the Sims modding community in the past.  When the time and interest are both there, the Sims 3 overhaul modders will likely embrace the challenge of merging their mods in various ways.  Only six weeks have passed since release day.  Modders just need MOAR TIME to familiarize themselves with the game code before we go jumping off bridges.

[JBoat]

The Elder Scrolls games have been marked by their success at making modding possible by just about anyone who wants to learn the basics.  TS2 is more difficult to mod than Oblivion, in my opinion.  Now with the release of TS3, I'd have to say that EA just jumped way ahead of Bethsoft in that department.

Gonna have to disagree with this statement, given that I modded for Elder Scrolls games for nigh on six years.  TS3 is way behind ES modding, in all regards (community, tools, world/quest creation, etc), and even after they release their neighborhood builder, they'll still be behind.  Doing a decent job of trying they are, but bugs need to be fixed much faster.  Right now I think the post-release Sims3 team is probably focusing too much on addon packs/expansions, and not enough where they need to be.

[tryguy]

What about this latest development?

http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=354748

The Core Mod Merger. Apparently, the core mods need to be written in a certain way to be usable in this way. But, like Wyre Bash for Oblivion, I really hope some kind of powersharing scheme can be worked out. I love awesome mod, and that's the one I go for at this stage, but there are other mods that I'd love to have too, but are butting heads with each other... Anyway, it just came out today, so maybe it could lead to something?

[DuchessOfKvetch]

Bethseda/Elder Scrolls games were designed with modding in mind, and the company released toolkits as well as their own scripting language to create new content/locations/objects/characters etc. On the other hand, EA has locked down TS3 big time, it seems - I remember reading somewhere else on this forum that they had encrypted much of their code. There is a *limited* avenue for creating custom content, but EA does not really want folks modding The Sims at all, it seems. Ergo the hoops the actual hardcore modders have to go through - it's not so simple as just not writing over each other's XML/config file changes, or coordinating override folders full of LUA scripts and custom objects.

[Motoki]

I'm contemplating a foray into Story Action Generation sometime next-week. As for the Indie-Mod thing, they haven't gotten back to me. Apparently most people are not as workaholic as I am.

Well hell, if they aren't getting back to you on a way to run the two together, then maybe look at borrowing some of their code/tweaks (with permissions and all that because lord knows the Sims community loves their drama). They borrowed some of yours for their mod.

On the whole I like their way their mod runs the neighborhood. Also I've noticed sim families moving into a house in the daytime like normal people should with it on. And the moves are fairly infrequent, which is good.

[Motoki]

I'm contemplating a foray into Story Action Generation sometime next-week. As for the Indie-Mod thing, they haven't gotten back to me. Apparently most people are not as workaholic as I am.

Well hell, if they aren't getting back to you on a way to run the two together, then maybe look at borrowing some of their code/tweaks (with permissions and all that because lord knows the Sims community loves their drama). They borrowed some of yours for their mod.

On the whole I like their way their mod runs the neighborhood. Also I've noticed sim families moving into a house in the daytime like normal people should with it on. And the moves are fairly infrequent, which is good.

Bethseda/Elder Scrolls games were designed with modding in mind, and the company released toolkits as well as their own scripting language to create new content/locations/objects/characters etc. On the other hand, EA has locked down TS3 big time, it seems - I remember reading somewhere else on this forum that they had encrypted much of their code. There is a *limited* avenue for creating custom content, but EA does not really want folks modding The Sims at all, it seems. Ergo the hoops the actual hardcore modders have to go through - it's not so simple as just not writing over each other's XML/config file changes, or coordinating override folders full of LUA scripts and custom objects.

Oh the whole I agree, but Bethesda did some dumb things here and there too like having the only plugin that will export their NetImmerse mesh format be for 3D Studio Max, which obviously means the vast majority of modders would need to get a arr'ed version. But that community is very anti-pay, which is good imo. Only now Bethesda started charging for their own mods. Not that they aren't really anything special anyway.

Still, they put out a hell or a lot more in the way of tools and information than EA does. Bethesda is a holdout of the days of smaller gaming studios before they all got swallowed up by EA. EA is the evil empire.

[BobDob]

Well hell, if they aren't getting back to you on a way to run the two together, then maybe look at borrowing some of their code/tweaks (with permissions and all that because lord knows the Sims community loves their drama). They borrowed some of yours for their mod.

They've already publicly said that he's welcome to borrow whatever he'd like.  I think the response he's waiting for is about structuring a more collaborative effort where both sides would continue to independently develop their areas.

[Wolfeyes]

While it would be great if the two mods could be made to work together, now that you've mentioned the possibility of another solution, I honestly think that your time might be better spent working out your own version of it.  I can already guess which things you'd do differently, and which things you wouldn't bother to do at all.  Not that there is anything wrong with how the creators chose to do the thing, but I think their approach to the game itself is somewhat different from yours, and Story Progression can certainly reflect that in a big way.

In agreement 100% here... as I too carefully analyzed the Indie Stone info and still am so smitten by AM that will just wait for more developments in it and roll along w/the changes and play, play, play...         

[Solmyr]

I really hope AM can incorporate some kind of story progression soon. I am not into running the entire neighborhood myself, I like to play only one specific family and let the NPCs take care of their own procreation, so having the entire town statically age and die off is a major put-off.