Moodlets + Six Bars vs. Eight Bars

[Mire Krisma]

What do you think of the moodlet hybrid system in TS3, compared to the old need bars from previous games?

After a week of playing with TS3's moodlets + bars, I have to say I hate it. The moodlets are extremely overpowered, IMO. Joe Sim here can be smelly and socially neglected, but still be happy as a clam because he ate a tasty breakfast! There also seems to be a huge amount of good moodlets vs. bad moodlets ( or perhaps I'm not seeing them ), which throws off the balance even more. Perhaps my biggest rant is the absolutely retarded art style in the moodlet thumbnails. Any moodlets involving the emoticon-esque face are cheesy ( the "It's Dark" moodlet takes the cake ), and there's a few more that make me shudder.

I'm not saying that moodlets themselves are horrible, I would just like to see a facelift of points-weighting and perhaps some replacement thumbnails.

[Bass Junkie]

Joe Sim here can be smelly and socially neglected, but still be happy as a clam because he ate a tasty breakfast!

Sounds like real life, I can be overwhelmed with depression but feel great after a really good meal.

[J. M. Pescado]

What do you think of the moodlet hybrid system in TS3, compared to the old need bars from previous games?

I'm in favor of it...in concept. The "mood fluctuating wildly depending on microscopic states of irrelevance" in TS1/2 were pretty much why perma-plat became the desirable state in TS2. As for the motives themselves, TS3 eliminates only 2 motives, both of them the least interesting ones of TS2. The TS2 "environment" motive wasn't really a MOTIVE anway, and TS3 removed it and replaced it with simply the "decorated" moodlet", which is basically exactly the same. Besides, the environment motive was STUPID. The comfort motive? Well, it was removed for being boring as well, although technically, it still exists in the form of a moodlet for comfy chairs, and the "Fatigue" hidden motive.

After a week of playing with TS3's moodlets + bars, I have to say I hate it. The moodlets are extremely overpowered, IMO. Joe Sim here can be smelly and socially neglected, but still be happy as a clam because he ate a tasty breakfast!

Well, being smelly and socially neglected both have negative moodlets attached. You clearly weren't that smelly or neglected, because the neglected moodlet is like -50, way more than the food moodlet.

There also seems to be a huge amount of good moodlets vs. bad moodlets ( or perhaps I'm not seeing them ), which throws off the balance even more.

There definitely are more "good" than "bad" moodlets. Also, you're a veteran player of the previous games. You're not likely to trip most of the bad moodlets because you don't suck enough.

Perhaps my biggest rant is the absolutely retarded art style in the moodlet thumbnails. Any moodlets involving the emoticon-esque face are cheesy ( the "It's Dark" moodlet takes the cake ), and there's a few more that make me shudder.

Agree about the art style, TS2 art > TS3 art. Replacement art is very easy to do, though.

I'm not saying that moodlets themselves are horrible, I would just like to see a facelift of points-weighting and perhaps some replacement thumbnails.

The points-weighting isn't really WRONG, it's just that there aren't really too many occasions for negative moodlets that exist in the game. I mean, what would you propose? Replacement thumbnails? Go right ahead. They're very easy to find and override.

[Jackathyn]

Joe Sim here can be smelly and socially neglected, but still be happy as a clam because he ate a tasty breakfast!

Sounds like real life, I can be overwhelmed with depression but feel great after a really good meal.

As someone who has to deal with a rather crippling-at-times state of depression, that sort of thing can help but not quite to the degree the game believes. What would have been a better moodlet for that if they were going for realism, imo, would have been something like 'talked to an old friend'. I don't see that one in there, I see moodlets for making a new friend but not maintaining a high link with one they've already got. The moodlets probably shouldn't be so strong though... if it's meant to simulate a sort of depression, perhaps the 'over emotional' ones should be the only ones getting the super high boosts? ... I'm pretty damn sure not everyone on earth has depression to battle against.

[Mire Krisma]

The points-weighting isn't really WRONG, it's just that there aren't really too many occasions for negative moodlets that exist in the game. I mean, what would you propose? Replacement thumbnails? Go right ahead. They're very easy to find and override.

I have been messing with some thumbnails and decals from TS2 and TS3 to see if I can make a different UI myself, but I'll be damned if I can find where that information is stored. I'll probably just upload the images and let someone else do the real work.

[Zazazu]

There also seems to be a huge amount of good moodlets vs. bad moodlets ( or perhaps I'm not seeing them ), which throws off the balance even more.

There definitely are more "good" than "bad" moodlets. Also, you're a veteran player of the previous games. You're not likely to trip most of the bad moodlets because you don't suck enough.

Fill a household with pissy sims. While Gen 2 was growing up and in the extremely early stages of Gen 3 in my legacy household, most of the sims were grumpy, insane, overreactive, or mean-spirited, if not two of those traits. They would alternate chatting and hugging with making fun of traits and general insults. At one memorable point, every single resident was in orange-to-red mood despite having almost perfect motives.

[misterK]

i haven't had much of a problem with balancing in the motives, although it's true--there are some important ones that should have been added, that weren't. injuries, anyone?

if it's meant to simulate a sort of depression, perhaps the 'over emotional' ones should be the only ones getting the super high boosts?

that makes a lot of sense; the sims, or the sims 2 at least, is a depression simulator. the social bunny, the crying and irritability (awesomemod's lesswhiny option comes to mind), and the constant fighting (i had one family spend two sim days, with motive cheats on, doing nothing but getting into fights. the husband lost his job) all seem like symptoms of depression.

[J. M. Pescado]

If you give your sims the "Grumpy" trait, they become rather depressed. It's a rather peculiar implementation of grumpiness, really. I'd be a grumpy person, except that I'm not at all like the description: I am more about RAEG than sadness. Grumpy seems to mean "Emo" in the world of the Sims.

[caterpillar]

I was surprised when I had a grumpy Sim interacting with a hot-headed Sim, and the grumpy and hot-headed traits came up as being incompatible.

[Chocolate Milk]

I kind of like the system, but the only time I've ever had to worry about negative moodlets was when a Sim died in the house; then everyone feels pretty heavily down for the next couple of days. I'd like to see more negative moodlets, and some of the current ones make no sense: why is my Sim who doesn't like children over the moon that he's just had triplets?

As someone who has to deal with a rather crippling-at-times state of depression, that sort of thing can help but not quite to the degree the game believes.

I don't think Sims are supposed to be clinically depressed. I think the unhappiness is just regular feeling down, which can be alleviated more easily.

[J. M. Pescado]

I was surprised when I had a grumpy Sim interacting with a hot-headed Sim, and the grumpy and hot-headed traits came up as being incompatible.

Yes, when you realize it really means "depressio", "emo", and not cranky, you'll see why. Grumpy in TS3 is like Strong Sad.

[Robowolf]

If you give your sims the "Grumpy" trait, they become rather depressed. It's a rather peculiar implementation of grumpiness, really. I'd be a grumpy person, except that I'm not at all like the description: I am more about RAEG than sadness. Grumpy seems to mean "Emo" in the world of the Sims.

Like how "Neurotic" is really more of "Paranoid". Love the trait, but it wasn't what I was expecting with "Neurotic".

[Regina]

In TS2 keeping Sims happy was all about fulfilling wants and keeping their motive bars in good shape.

In TS3 keeping Sims happy is all about either having them do things that make them happy or putting them in comfortable surroundings AND keeping their motive bars in good shape.

I still pay more attention to motives than anything else, although I did learn that in TS3 motives can and should go much lower than they do in TS2 before worrying about them.

I absolutely love the moodlets.  Yes, some of them seem fairly over-powered, but I know I'd be as happy as most of my Sims are if I was able to live outside on a huge lot with a lovely view too! LOL

[J. M. Pescado]

TS3 sims are not affected by minor fluctuations in mood, so a sim does not become gradually more upset merely as his motive bars drop, even though they are all still in decent shape. TS2 essentially had a "mega-moodlet", in the form of platinum ASP, that made the mood bar totally decoupled from the motive bar, similar to how it is by default in TS3. All in all, TS3's system is mostly what I was moving towards anyway in the Undiscovered Shinies.

[misterK]

I still pay more attention to motives than anything else, although I did learn that in TS3 motives can and should go much lower than they do in TS2 before worrying about them.

If this is the case, then why does SupCom have them fill motives when they're half-full? If I remember correctly, it a problem in TS2 when that happened; why is it suddenly a problem now?

[Liz]

I think the moodlets are a great idea, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they evolve. Having a great time in a beautiful setting with your love? Damn right that's going to more than offset that fact that you're a little hungry.

Right now the bar that's pissing me off is hygiene. Yes, daily bathing is good and good for you. But say my sim has a bath before bed. Then she gets up to sit at her desk job all day, comes home to eat a salad, and sits around reading for a while. Her hygiene should not be ready to tank like she's been filth farming the English countryside ("Ooh, Dennis, there's some lovely filth over here!"). Yes, it's been 24 hours since she took her bath. Certainly another one wouldn't be a bad idea. But a calm, easy, sedentary day should not lead to "ZOMG, I need a bath NAO!"

[J. M. Pescado]

If this is the case, then why does SupCom have them fill motives when they're half-full? If I remember correctly, it a problem in TS2 when that happened; why is it suddenly a problem now?

Because I like to be proactive and anticipate and counter problems before they actually occur, and therefore, my AI reflects this.

[PirateFaafy]

I may be wrong about this, and I know that the game in general is counter to this idea, but it seems as though the moodlet system also leaves things a bit open-ended, i.e. perhaps some mods could make interesting use of it.

[Frick]

If this is the case, then why does SupCom have them fill motives when they're half-full? If I remember correctly, it a problem in TS2 when that happened; why is it suddenly a problem now?

Because I like to be proactive and anticipate and counter problems before they actually occur, and therefore, my AI reflects this.

This gets annoying when I activate SupCom on a sim to have it perform some task and it decides that it would rather sleep for the rest of the afternoon instead of doing anything productive. Perhaps your AI could treat the energy motive differently than the others since it takes so much longer to drain and refill, and a 40% full energy bar is not something that needs to be attended to immediately at 4pm?

[J. M. Pescado]

Actually, the calculation for energy is special. What it's doing is that it is determining the sims's "Wake Up Time", then sending them to sleep at the point where Expected Recharge Time intersects "Time To WakeUp", which should result in the Fully Rested moodlet at full power right before work. The machine is smarter than you are.

[chaos]

The only thing that bothers me about the moodlets and having only six bars is that comfort is no longer a factor, when it comes to furniture selection. Depending on where I place a bookcase, the sims will choose a cheap and uncomfortable-looking patio/dining chair over a comfy sofa, which is illogical. At least in TS2, furniture had a comfort rating, and sims would choose the most comfortable item over what happened to be nearest the bookcase. I just make sure that I place bookcases close to the better furniture, but it's silly that I have to do that in the first place.

[J. M. Pescado]

The only thing that bothers me about the moodlets and having only six bars is that comfort is no longer a factor, when it comes to furniture selection. Depending on where I place a bookcase, the sims will choose a cheap and uncomfortable-looking patio/dining chair over a comfy sofa, which is illogical. At least in TS2, furniture had a comfort rating, and sims would choose the most comfortable item over what happened to be nearest the bookcase. I just make sure that I place bookcases close to the better furniture, but it's silly that I have to do that in the first place.

I wish that were really true. The chair selection algorithm in TS3 is maddening compared to the TS2 one: In TS3, a sim will aggravatingly like 3 hours across the lot to reach that ONE chair, which is intended for some OTHER purpose and block it for everyone else. AwesomeMod actually had to take steps to CORRECT it to prevent them from obsessing over distant chairs in other rooms!

[Zazazu]

Right now the bar that's pissing me off is hygiene. Yes, daily bathing is good and good for you. But say my sim has a bath before bed. Then she gets up to sit at her desk job all day, comes home to eat a salad, and sits around reading for a while. Her hygiene should not be ready to tank like she's been filth farming the English countryside ("Ooh, Dennis, there's some lovely filth over here!"). Yes, it's been 24 hours since she took her bath. Certainly another one wouldn't be a bad idea. But a calm, easy, sedentary day should not lead to "ZOMG, I need a bath NAO!"

I could see neat and perfectionist sims needing a daily shower. Others, more like every other day. Apparently, this is how frequently most of my friends bathe. I do so at least once daily, often twice. I'm half German and I hate being oily.

[J. M. Pescado]

Constant bathing is unhealthy and oil is good. The oil is what protects your skin from nasty things, and removing all the oil is hard on your skin. In the absence of doing anything particularly grimy, you should bathe maybe once a month, certainly no more than once a week, tops.

[Kyna]

Actually, the calculation for energy is special. What it's doing is that it is determining the sims's "Wake Up Time", then sending them to sleep at the point where Expected Recharge Time intersects "Time To WakeUp", which should result in the Fully Rested moodlet at full power right before work. The machine is smarter than you are.

My sims are waking up at 6am, heading down to the library to do some skilling before work under SupCom, then when they get to the library they turn around and go home so that they can go back to bed for one more hour.  Then the car pool arrives, and they've wasted that extra hour - they didn't get any skilling done, nor did they make it back home to their bed to charge up the "fully rested" moodlet. 

Can you please stop them going back to bed if they just got up and it's only a couple of hours before work time?