Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.

[Steele]

On normal gameplay, it should not have any problems with the ownership breaks. In the case of The Sims, there is no such thing as normal gameplay generally since there's always custom content and the freeform method of the game anything is possible. It's also the same case as other freeform games like Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout3.

I don't see how you are going to possibly get to the root of a problem unless you remove all of the unknown variables. In other words, I don't see how you are possibly going to find out what is causing these errors in your game whilst you are installing, removing and changing your savegame with custom content. In Sims 2 it was not uncommon for a mod or CC which was once thought acceptable to later be found to be damaging. For the case with the Mac, this was with a person knowledgeable in computing, who used two different computers and multiple installs to attempt to troubleshoot a persistent issue. This is one of only two cases I've seen where custom content was definitely not involved. It is frustrating to watch so many people on so many threads experiencing the same issues over and over, when the whole troubleshooting process could be expedited by eliminating some possible causes. The first and easiest to eliminate is custom content.

I agree removing custom content should be the first and easiest way to determine if that is causing you problems. And it has been stated over and over again before in this thread and the other threads. Sad part is only a few really did reply saying "they still have it without CCs" and most of them are from this site. The rest still whine ,complain and ignore the suggestion as if was blasphemous.

The next step is to re-install your game and try playing it vanilla. Because, there are many instances I spotted where in there are some bad installs reported. Most of them are the objectcache file which is basically the cache for Sunset Valley. Somebody's hosting a fixed objectcache file in torrents for those who have problems with the bad installed objectcache file. This is also stated in the previous replies over and over...

If both does not work, try reducing what is not needed in your game. Again, also being repeated.

What you have suggested has been suggested in the past. However, I find there are not enough responses and feedback in which I can really establish anything. So the next best thing I did was to emulate what others did based on what little background they shared and try to guess what other things they refuse to tell that caused the problem.

Also tried analyzing some saves from other players, so far their saves are clean with only duplicate townies over bloating the hood. The common mod they have is IS. I just confirmed tinkering around the save file that these townies aren't all purged and just moving them around from lot to lot will create duplicate sims. Really bloating your game very fast. With a new town and moving Don Lothario's house from one location to another caused 2 Don Lotharios recorded in the Genealogy record. Haven't really tried seeing what happens after a time, does the game purge the clone or it is left behind. So far the cleanest purge I found was done by the EAxian Default Story emmigration purges (all my sims that were affected by this purge was nowhere seen in the save)

So far I have no more ideas on how to help with little feedback or background to work on. So I'm just tinker around the save file to find if there is some way to respawn some deleted urns that I did a few months ago.

I appreciate your concerns to other players. Thanks.

[Anonym]

I always try to sidestep it, and made it through months of gameplay without failing to sidestep an Error 13.  I had also recently sidestepped a number of Error 12's (although I always had periods where Error 12's meant "this game isn't going to save no matter what you do" as well).

That's crucial to saving one's progress, and it's crucial to game enjoyment to be able to save your progress, IMO.

Something I learned was the only way to be okay after sidestepping an error was that, once it saved, I had to quit the game (by the in-game quit button) and clearing out the caches.  I swear if there were a mod that allowed caches to be cleared from inside the game it would fix a lot of the save error problem.  If I kept playing after that, then I'd get an error I couldn't sidestep.

Just recently I'm getting errors that won't let me sidestep them and that will even crash while saving if I try too hard, and it's becoming infuriating, but that's in a cluster.  I've also had nice clusters where I'd go a couple weeks without any errors I couldn't sidestep; so I don't think sidestepping errors is a bad thing.

[Simsample]

One thing that some people have found to help is to go to 'edit town' before saving; the game seems to purge caches or memory or some darned thing when you do that.

[Steele]

After poking so much inside the save game (backup game before I started messing around, this is the save after fixing my error 12 and 13 problem). I just found how screwed up my save file is.

1. With duplicate sims, I found that duplicates created by the game during move out / move in functions can be deleted by "nukeimpostors", but duplicates created by moving out -> deleting family on clipboard -> re-instituting same family back into town from bin will have no effect with "nukeimpostors" (dead duplicate sims does count as not affected)

2. Somehow, all my default dead sims of Sunset Valley graveyard has became NPC status and keep on becoming townies. Funny thing is with the NRaas supercomputer, their skin tones has become reaper black skin tone. Which could relate to my ghost bug I have been experiencing months ago.

3. There's also a genealogy loop bug in some of my dead sims. In game, the sim genealogy connectors loops to itself. But inside the save file, other relatives connect to this sim but the said sim itself has no connections. Which is really weird.

4. Another thing I noted that one of the 250+ written books is connected to the Awesomemod. I'm not sure which one since I delete them in bulk. A Flargrant System Error appears and refuses the merge family function in edit town. I forgot where I saved the screen capture. Will post it as soon as I find it.

5. One thing I found is that there's a hidden unimplemented photography skill in the game as well as a toddler block skill. I'm not sure if this old news since it is not mentioned in the wiki. Right now I'm too lazy to do a site search and reach every related entry.

6. One final thing I also found, transferring paintings from one neighborhood to another will work without becoming riddler tiles if it is displayed in a lot. If stored in a sim or family inventory it will lose the picture. For fishes and certificates, whatever I do with them they still lose ownership tags when moving them into a new neighborhood. Well, you could be one of the few who has a store bought Deathfish.

I'm retiring this current game since it takes me now 3 minutes to save and a lot more time to correct the bugs found.

Just posting these findings in case you may encounter the same incidents in your game. Hopefully not. At least there are some solutions that can work.

One thing that some people have found to help is to go to 'edit town' before saving; the game seems to purge caches or memory or some darned thing when you do that.

In my experience, it does not always work. If your cache gets over bloated, whatever you do won't work. And sometimes, when error 13 pops out, there is a small percentage it can work, I'd say around 20-40%. I may be wrong but I think it still depends on the cache.

[Malapietra]

I just got an error 12 message for the first time after months of playing the game.  It happened after I finished editing a character in CAS using the Super Computer mod.  I noticed a few things that may or may not be helpful in trying to find a solution to this.  One was a "Null Key" in the Lifetime traits rewards that I fixed using the Clean Traits feature of Super Computer.  The other was the GUI of Buy/Sell Catalog was colored black.  The game crashed to the desktop after I tried to go to Edit Town without saving.

I've browsed some of the posts on this thread so I'll be trying some of the voodoo solutions here but what can I expect from this neighborhood or any future neighborhoods that I start up now that I've been inflicted with this?  Is the problem going to get worse from here on out?  Is it recommended to start a new save file?  How are people coping with this?

[Steele]

I just got an error 12 message for the first time after months of playing the game.  It happened after I finished editing a character in CAS using the Super Computer mod.  I noticed a few things that may or may not be helpful in trying to find a solution to this.  One was a "Null Key" in the Lifetime traits rewards that I fixed using the Clean Traits feature of Super Computer.  The other was the GUI of Buy/Sell Catalog was colored black.  The game crashed to the desktop after I tried to go to Edit Town without saving.

I've browsed some of the posts on this thread so I'll be trying some of the voodoo solutions here but what can I expect from this neighborhood or any future neighborhoods that I start up now that I've been inflicted with this?  Is the problem going to get worse from here on out?  Is it recommended to start a new save file?  How are people coping with this?

What I know is if an incorrect value is introduced to sim description, the GUI sometimes becomes invisible or the build buy mode will be empty as well in your case it becomes black.

It's better to load a previous save if it's still available. In my experience, It will really depend on what other mods are present in your game and what you do with it is what will determine if it'll become worse or not.

[Malapietra]

In my experience, It will really depend on what other mods are present in your game and what you do with it is what will determine if it'll become worse or not.

Could you elaborate a little more on this?  Do we know what mods cause the error 12 to appear more often than others just by merely having them installed?  Is there something about doing certain things on a particular mod that will cause the E12 to appear with greater frequency?  Do we know what those certain things are?

I was under the impression that the problem was still a mystery and there was no known solution or cause as the problem appears to be spread across all sorts of users: from those who play with mods to those who play without them, pirated and legit copies of the game, and those with custom content versus those without.

[Steele]

There is no known solution to the E12. Yes, it is still a mystery since the problem seems to evolve, what works today may not work tomorrow likewise, what works for others does not work to some.

So far, there are incompatible mods I've been having some suspicion upon. As example, I have been noticing the E12 are developing faster with Chaavik's Faster Writing mod and the More Opportunity Mod together. This is just what I noticed but not confirmed. There are many other mods out there and there are many combinations that will happen. So far there is no list of conflicting mods, but it will be best to start reading the readme/updates/comments/forums where the mod came from sometimes they will site what mods does not go well with it.

As for my experience, once you start getting E12s it's not a good sign, better reload and earlier game.

These are the signs I see that may lead to an E12:
1. Saving a 50Mb save game for 1.75 minutes. My normal save is 45 seconds for 129 Mb
2. Pathing errors on visiting other households. Visiting sims will go directly to the mailbox instead of the door. If Sim manages to get to the door. Inside sims will ignore the doorbell.
3. Over populated, multiple cloned townie sims.
4. Forcing opportunities through cheats. Will damage sim descriptions if done incorrectly.
These are the repeating signs I see as few sim days before I get the E12. There are more signs to look out for that I might not have encountered yet.

[Lorea]

I haven't been played for 3 weeks with the game.. I didn't want to start the game because the error 12 makes me sad and angry.
Maybe I'll return to the Sims 2..

[GnatGoSplat]

D'OH!!!  Error Code 13 is now popping up for me at LEAST once an hour!  This started over the weekend.  For months, I had no problems.  I have no idea what's causing it.  I usually run with Delphy's boob slider mod and nothing else, but I've had it for a couple weeks now.  The only other change is I've filled a house to capacity with 8 sims.  My wife's computer gets Error Code 12, she also has the boob slider mod and 8-sims in a house.  She was able to side-step it by going to Edit Town one time it happened, the other time it crashed to desktop on a subsequent save attempt.  I once had an Error Code 12 that turned to an Error Code 13 on a subsequent save attempt.

I can side-step it sometimes, by going to Edit Town, going into CAS, exiting back to Edit Town, and doing that whole dance.  I've tried build/modifying lots, adding/removing lots, etc.  However, lately, NOTHING I try works.  I've taken to saving every 15-minutes just so when Code 13 occurs, I haven't lost too much time.  Whenever I get an Error Code 13 that no matter what I do won't let it save, I'll do suicide by burning hotdogs.  8 sims.  8 grilles.  8 fires.  Burn, burn burn!  Interesting thing is I guess the game is so unstable by the time Error Code 13 pops up that no sim ever dies in the massive resulting fire because I get crash to desktop before that happens.

There seems to be no rhyme or reason why this error occurs.  Only thing I observed is that IF side-stepping the error works, it saves a 49MB file whereas the normal save file is 40MB.  It will still open correctly, but if I re-save it, it makes a 40MB file again.  Seems like some kind of memory leak.

[tizerist]

Just to say that I haven't given up on my side of the experiments, its just I have to be gradual and inspect how the town reacts to things being re-inserted.
I can say at least that the landslide of CC over the last couple weeks has not made things worse, I'm still 95% error free here but with a very low population.

[Steele]

Right now I don't have any ideas on how to fix E12s and E13s but I have a theory. With World Adventures, I'm sure there'll be a new cache for each locations. I'm assuming that it'll be less than 1Mb from the specs provided. But I think, there might be a work around if we force travel to another neighborhood to save and use the destination cache instead.

Possible drawbacks will be that the game will try to save upon leaving the neighborhood or the main neighborhood cache would not be refreshed while traveling and the save game will still access the main hood's cache.

[GnatGoSplat]

I have only found one solution to elminating E12/E13 which so far has worked the past two days, and that is to close out the game after about an hour and restart it.  I landed on the hour figure because I've been saving every 15-minutes or so, and it seemed the 5th or 6th save (approx 1-1/2hrs) is the one that would get E13.

[aspinL]

I've posted here before, and my crashing and E12's and E13's have gotten to where I have to time my saves to under an hour. It seems as the previous person said they have to save and relaunch every hour or so. This works for me so far. As starting two days ago I would save every 30 minutes and after two or three saves I would get an E12 and then I'd save again and it'd crash.
I'm guessing that all these E12's and E13's are from custom content mainly? Because my grandmother who plays for days on end by just closing her laptop lid and leaving the game running hasn't had any of these errors or save problems. She doesn't have much custom content either. Maybe 10 or 20 things... and no awesome mod.
World Adventures comes out in two days... I don't know what to expect with it. I guess the same as what went on with Bon Voyage, which was a lot of major problems.

By the way, if someone's mentioned this before, I'm mentioning it again, but this thread has been extremely helpful to me. I just wanted to thank all the people who take the time to come up with theories and share them on here

[Slymenstra]

I posted in this thread before too and I am finding I get error 12s when my resident population reaches somewhere in the high 70s.  If I keep the population lower than 75 I can play for hours and save every 15 minutes and not error once.  I have a ton of CC and use a few hacks (Awesome, Twallan's computer and story progression).

I don't know what you guys have for populations, but this is what I am finding at the moment.  However my current neighborhood has not had anyone die yet, and I know ghosts can get errors.  It's really frustrating not knowing what causes the errors.  I just want to enjoy my neighborhood and watch it grow and evolve.  Every time it gets going I get errors.  So this time I am keep watch of the population.

[Steele]

I believe that Error 12s and long saves has something to do with the population. At a certain point, with the latest Awesomemod build, the population in my town stopped expanding. Forced adding 3 sims and the game started to lag and Error 12s kept poping up every 2 hours. Forced adding 2 more sims and the Error 12 now appears every hour. My save game takes 3 minutes to save.

But one thing I noticed with the long save game, is that 80% of the waiting time during saves, there is no saving that actually takes place. Somehow the game may be accessing something from the memory or cache during those times. Even saves without the error messages will turn out as a bad file when checking the saves folder in explorer.

The only change I made to correct this problem is changing the aging timescale from epic to short, after a few deaths the game normalized and no errors or bad files for 4+ hours. My save game is back to 15 to 20 secs.

It is possible that overpopulation might be a cause and playing with an epic scale or non-aging would cause these errors. I think that the random family move out of town (or purging) by the game is a failsafe made by EA to reduce errors caused by overpopulating. I also think there is a limit population cap somewhere in the codes that tells the game to make these purges.

[nanacake]

I would not group the long saves with it being overpopulation only. There could be other reasons for them. My neighborhood has a population no greater than 20 sims and the save time takes 5 to 6 minutes. I believe it is bad custom content causing this. Attempting to removing it and reloading several times with a backup and saving the cc free hood resulted in the same amount of save time (5 minutes) as well with an incredibly long client load time (Almost 8 minutes from desktop to sunset valley). This leads me to believe a theory for once you have inserted some bad CC (or maybe even ANY cc/mods the game was not made to accept outside of the launcher installations of store items -such as default replacements) encounter this problem it may not be fixed without a fresh start of the hood, or even an entire reinstall of TS3. Unless someone else has produced a 10 minute client load and a 5 to 6 minute (or longer) save without any cc ever having been installed with a computer that is over or beyond the recommended system requisite.

[bzrburns]

I was having a lot of problem with Error Code 12 and 13 complete with crashes. It happened with and without custom content and mods. It happened with and without aging and story progression running.  I tried deleting all the caches and still it happened. It seemed to happen during weeks 14-16 of Sim play regardless of all my effots. I read on the Forum to delete the files in WorldCaches. I did so and the Error Codes 12, 13 and the random crashes stopped. I've been able to play through Sim Week 60 with no problem.  But the files in the WorldCaches folder didn't automatically regenerate. Is this a problem?

[aspinL]

I strongly envy you, Steele. My game takes around 2 and a half minutes to save, and I have my aging scale on normal. You say you fixed your save time from three minutes to 15 seconds by taking the aging scale off epic?
I also don't have any idea what my population is, how do you find that out?Actually, my population is at 52. Lately I have been having a lot of deaths though, as my previous generation all start to die off. Maybe I should go and just kill off the elders, because there's at least two or three in every household. Matter of fact, elders are the dominant age. I went on a killing spree though and terminated about 5, and oddly enough my game went from 2 and a half minutes to save; to just 2 minutes flat.

I also believe E12's must have something to do with the population. From what everyone else is reporting and from the fact that almost right after my household had another kid was when the errors starting showing up and my game started crashing a lot. It seemed like she tipped the population over.

[bigpooh]

so i havent played for months thanks to error 13 but i was just wondering if the new patch or the World adventures has corrected the cache issues which have been causing the errors, does anyone who has the expansion or patched their game know?

[Steele]

So far, it seems possible to save without having Error 12s or 13s with WA. But it's hard to tell as of now since there are now 10 files instead of 1 save file for each save.

My first attempt did not result in errors but it crashed to desktop during a save and no save game folder was made.

Saving is now 4x longer since each town has it's own save file.

The game does not save during loading from hood to hood but so far saving from the foreign country accesses the cache of that country during save which somehow bypasses some error 12/13 occurrence. So far this is still in theory and still needs verification.

[chann]

So far, it seems possible to save without having Error 12s or 13s with WA. But it's hard to tell as of now since there are now 10 files instead of 1 save file for each save.

My first attempt did not result in errors but it crashed to desktop during a save and no save game folder was made.

Saving is now 4x longer since each town has it's own save file.

The game does not save during loading from hood to hood but so far saving from the foreign country accesses the cache of that country during save which somehow bypasses some error 12/13 occurrence. So far this is still in theory and still needs verification.

That's interesting. I'm just curious, but do the new worlds in WA work like the sub-hoods in TS2 - they don't get added until you create them - or are they simply forced on you on the first load?

[Steele]

So far, it seems possible to save without having Error 12s or 13s with WA. But it's hard to tell as of now since there are now 10 files instead of 1 save file for each save.

My first attempt did not result in errors but it crashed to desktop during a save and no save game folder was made.

Saving is now 4x longer since each town has it's own save file.

The game does not save during loading from hood to hood but so far saving from the foreign country accesses the cache of that country during save which somehow bypasses some error 12/13 occurrence. So far this is still in theory and still needs verification.

That's interesting. I'm just curious, but do the new worlds in WA work like the sub-hoods in TS2 - they don't get added until you create them - or are they simply forced on you on the first load?

They are loaded when you visit those hoods. Same as TS2.

The difference is, they don't get created nor forced on the first load. They are already created once the game installs, the world file and cache is fixed in size. You just have to load them. Though the first loading will take a bit since they are updating all the stats of every sim in your hood.

I find that WA borked the charisma skill. It erased my comedian challenge back to zero. Though, fishes, gardening and collectibles seems correctly adjusted.

[GnatGoSplat]

I still get E12/E13 if I continuously play the game for >1hr without closing down and reopening it.  I've killed off a ton of sims in my neighborhood, and it didn't seem to make any difference.  I manage to recover about 3/4 times.
I have this problem even without mods, and the only CC I have is officially sanctioned stuff from the Sims Store.
It seems to me there's just a good old fashioned memory leak in the code, perhaps from poor or inefficient coding.

Yeah, it does seem as if an E12/E13 doesn't really save anything.  I can usually tell when I'm going to get one because saving takes an unusually long time, and there is much less disk activity going on than a good save.

[Lorea]

Now we have another saving error: Error 16! Yeeee!

Here's the official word regarding Error 16:

We have been made aware of an issue you may encounter while trying to save your game after installing The Sims 3 World Adventures or updating your game. The Sims 3 World Adventures and the Game Update have changed the way your save files are created, which can lead to an error during your gameplay when you save your game. If you encounter an error that says "Error Code 16," please use "Save As" to save your game instead. This will allow you to create a new save file and circumvent this error.

If you are beginning an entirely new game or starting in a new neighborhood, you will NOT encounter this issue.

We are working to address this and will update you as soon as possible.

Thanks,
-Big Guy-