The Legacy Challenge for TS3

[crunk]

Interested in posting a legacy story? Try livejournal.

[Marhis]

Oh yes, just what I was hoping for. Where's the teen raped and pregnant with twinz (angst optional)? I MISS HER SO MUCH!!!!!!!111EVIL!!!!!

[viewpoint]

I'm just curious. With all this ability to do with modding, why not just do a mod for the legacy challenge to install rules and restrictions? It's tough enough playing through 10 generations. Having to manually watch out not to accidentally violate any of the rules adds quite a burden.

Besides, it's no fun knowing that I might make an accidental mistake violating the rules once in a while throughout the long 10 generations.

[Zazazu]

What rules? What restrictions? I swear, all these little kiddies are whining about how TS3 Legacy is just like TS2 Apocalypse. Have you seen TS2 Legacy rules? They were ridiculous. This one has pretty much no rules past the initial setup, which is exactly the same as TS2 Legacy's rules. Pick a lot. Familyfund down to $1,300. Spawn sims. Don't cheat.

It's so damn hard, isn't it?

[asciident]

It seems to me a lot of people just heard the basic gist of TS2 legacy (spawn 10 generations, don't cheat, maybe a few other details) and didn't notice the enormous list of rules that were included...even in the base game. TS3 legacy is quite simplified in comparison, but I suppose if you only thought there were 2-5 details in the original it seems more complex.

[Shai Hulud]

This sounds pretty fun, actually.

I'm not sure if this was asked already, but is it allowed to make the life span longer than normal? I play with Very Long, I think it's called.
Pretty sure It's 180 days.

[viewpoint]

What rules? What restrictions? I swear, all these little kiddies are whining about how TS3 Legacy is just like TS2 Apocalypse. Have you seen TS2 Legacy rules? They were ridiculous. This one has pretty much no rules past the initial setup, which is exactly the same as TS2 Legacy's rules. Pick a lot. Familyfund down to $1,300. Spawn sims. Don't cheat.

It's so damn hard, isn't it?

Well, there's the life fruit, the ambrosia. Once we get access to those, sims live perpetual lives. Sort of like some "Actuarial Escape Velocity", where the rate of increase in life expectancy (from improvements in life sciences) outpace the time-cost (time taken) to bring about said rate of increase.

A simple mod that removes all those lifetime rewards would be great. There's no way to "sell away" a lifetime reward that we might accidentally buy!

I never play with life fruits or ambrosia. I think it makes the game terribly trivial.

[viewpoint]

This sounds pretty fun, actually.

I'm not sure if this was asked already, but is it allowed to make the life span longer than normal? I play with Very Long, I think it's called.
Pretty sure It's 180 days.

Given how a typical career path would take a sim from 20 years of age (young adult) to maybe about 50 (adult) under the "normal lifespan" setting, I'd say that's the thing to play for most realism. Of course, everyone wants more time to fulfill whatever lifetime wishes they have. Sticking to the normal lifespan setting makes the game more engaging. We need to carefully consider trade-offs in life.

Take the Martinez couple for example. As adults, they have just 21 days (less actually) to reach the top of their careers, and then have kids. If I run a real tight ship, I would JUST make it. The mid-life crisis reward is necessary. I'd say the Martinez couple decided they needed to give up some traits and become ambitious workaholics to get any chance at all at fulfilling their lifetime wishes. Fun. Maybe almost as fun as the legacy challenge.

Having kids early will put them out of work for about 6-8 days. Then they would have settle for gray hair when at the top of their careers.

[Zazazu]

Please don't double-post. You can insert another quote simply by scrolling down and clicking the "Insert Quote" button. Also, a quick gander through the FAQ might help you. You seem to be a decent one.

Well, there's the life fruit, the ambrosia. Once we get access to those, sims live perpetual lives. Sort of like some "Actuarial Escape Velocity", where the rate of increase in life expectancy (from improvements in life sciences) outpace the time-cost (time taken) to bring about said rate of increase.

A simple mod that removes all those lifetime rewards would be great. There's no way to "sell away" a lifetime reward that we might accidentally buy!

There aren't any lifetime rewards that are disallowed. Are you thinking that reward points used count against the 100k/200k reward point points? They don't. You can purchase whatever you'd like, whenever. By mousing over the chest in the LTR tab, you can see your earned total for the sim. That's what you count for points.

As for ambrosia and life fruit, I'm not sure that I like the rule against them, though I am playing with it. In TS2 legacy, you weren't restricted from using elixir. You could choose not to for an extra point, but you weren't kept from it. Life fruit and ambrosia are harder to obtain (much harder, in the case of ambrosia) than elixir in TS2. You pay more for the advantage. Yeah, sure, a sim can be immortal off of life fruit. They could off of elixir, too, and it wasn't hard to earn. It was ridiculously easy, actually, after NL introduced dating.

Given how a typical career path would take a sim from 20 years of age (young adult) to maybe about 50 (adult) under the "normal lifespan" setting, I'd say that's the thing to play for most realism. Of course, everyone wants more time to fulfill whatever lifetime wishes they have. Sticking to the normal lifespan setting makes the game more engaging. We need to carefully consider trade-offs in life.

I've heard that work performance grows more slowly under the longer lifespans. I don't intend to ever test that myself. The 90-day span is a bit longer than I'd like it as it is.

Take the Martinez couple for example. As adults, they have just 21 days (less actually) to reach the top of their careers, and then have kids. If I run a real tight ship, I would JUST make it. The mid-life crisis reward is necessary. I'd say the Martinez couple decided they needed to give up some traits and become ambitious workaholics to get any chance at all at fulfilling their lifetime wishes. Fun. Maybe almost as fun as the legacy challenge.

Having kids early will put them out of work for about 6-8 days. Then they would have settle for gray hair when at the top of their careers.

There is an exploit that many don't realize. You can get a female pregnant at any time before they become elder. So if you have one day, zero days left until age transition, they can still breed. Also, Awesomemod doesn't enforce maternity leave and Awesomemod is expressly allowed. Saish Test had her last three kids after she'd reached 2 days to elder (twins and a singleton). If you want to wait until the last possible second to breed, you can. The Tests did the opposite...Saish was pregnant on Day 2. Chuck didn't even move in until she was in her third pregnancy. They currently have eleven children, six living at home and five living next door.

Of course, Saish didn't work. She has a sizable garden with the standard harvestables (no flame fruit, life fruit, death flowers, etc), and she breeds. Chuck brought home the bacon (quite literally from Culinary career) and they both spent spare time rock collecting. Right now, I'm sitting on a fully-furnished five bedroom, five bathroom home with playground and pool valued at over $76k with $13k in the bank account.

[Shai Hulud]

Actually, now that I think about it this sounds stupid. I barely get by with one generation, because it's the same thing everyday. Go to work, raise motives, raise skill, raise motives, rinse and repeat.

Without expansions, there's hardly anything to do. Think about it, take away the skills and the jobs, what do you have? Loafing around your house, or running around town like a released schizophrenic picking up rocks. EA gave us sticks and expect us to build Rome with it. There is almost nothing to do, and this shows it. Try and make a ton of money, and follow guidelines? I don't know about anybody else, but that sounds exasperatingly boring.

[viewpoint]

Please don't double-post. You can insert another quote simply by scrolling down and clicking the "Insert Quote" button. Also, a quick gander through the FAQ might help you. You seem to be a decent one.

I was replying to 2 different posters. But I didn't realize the topic discussed may be similar. Where's the FAQ? Nice to be on a forum that's so neat. Why is the official Sims 3 forum so unpolished?

As for ambrosia and life fruit, I'm not sure that I like the rule against them, though I am playing with it. In TS2 legacy, you weren't restricted from using elixir. You could choose not to for an extra point, but you weren't kept from it. Life fruit and ambrosia are harder to obtain (much harder, in the case of ambrosia) than elixir in TS2. You pay more for the advantage. Yeah, sure, a sim can be immortal off of life fruit. They could off of elixir, too, and it wasn't hard to earn. It was ridiculously easy, actually, after NL introduced dating.

If ambrosia and life fruits are so difficult to get (so much that I haven't been able to get them at all!), then yeah, no point disabling them. I just thought that it might be nice to have Sims 3 actually mirror real life to some good extent. I like the legacy challenge for making me run through Sims 3 gameplay like I'm considering actual trade-offs for real life.

Aside from getting a kick out of realism in the game, gameplay balance and mechanics is another thing. Ambrosia and life fruit may have gameplay usefulness somehow.

As for lifetime rewards, I like the idea of upgrading cars for better speed, not the teleportation device.

I've heard that work performance grows more slowly under the longer lifespans. I don't intend to ever test that myself. The 90-day span is a bit longer than I'd like it as it is.

Oh, it does? Yeah, I don't intend to test it either. The 90-day span feels right, given how I actually have to rush hard to fulfill a career lifetime wish if I start at middle-age (Adult). And I don't have all that much real-life time to devote to Sims 3 too. I have lifetime wishes myself.

There is an exploit that many don't realize. You can get a female pregnant at any time before they become elder. So if you have one day, zero days left until age transition, they can still breed.

Yeah, I knew that. Hmm. I guess I was unconsciously hoping that my Martinez couple can play with their kids while still not elders yet. I hear that energy motive decays faster when in Elder life stage.

Also, Awesomemod doesn't enforce maternity leave and Awesomemod is expressly allowed.

That's realistic. It'll also be nice if we can call in to take leave or something. Then we have the option to turn up for work or not.

Maybe allow 1 sim-day leave per week? Assuming the YA and Adult life stages are 20 years each (20-40, 40-60), that would mean that 1 sim-day is about 1 year in real life. A 14-day leave package per year would give about 0.32 sim-days (7.84 sim-hours) of leave per sim-week. If we take more leave than that, then yeah sure, hit our work performance. To make it more realistic, maybe we need to call in to apply for leave, say, 6 sim-hours before work starts?

This keeps bugging me. Why is EA not adopting Awesomemod? If I were working on Sims 3, I wouldn't mind paying Pescado and company to improve Sims 3. It's not like EA can earn any extra from updates that ship these fixes in Awesomemod, right?? Awesomemod's very existence already means that area of revenue is already lost. Why not just let Pescado make Sims 3 better?

Updates that ship fixes should really not have to be paid for by customers.

[viewpoint]

Actually, now that I think about it this sounds stupid. I barely get by with one generation, because it's the same thing everyday. Go to work, raise motives, raise skill, raise motives, rinse and repeat.

Without expansions, there's hardly anything to do. Think about it, take away the skills and the jobs, what do you have? Loafing around your house, or running around town like a released schizophrenic picking up rocks. EA gave us sticks and expect us to build Rome with it. There is almost nothing to do, and this shows it. Try and make a ton of money, and follow guidelines? I don't know about anybody else, but that sounds exasperatingly boring.

That's why we stick with a time limit. Playing with normal lifespans, I actually had to choose which skills to improve. My sims do die of old age before they can master many skills. Often, I would take a high-logic sim off of work permanently, just so she can tutor the next generation well. Having a level 10 (career or logic skill, etc) sim die is a big blow, but a natural one.

In short, playing with normal lifespans, there almost always seems to be never enough time to get everything (that I wanna do) done before my life is over. Much like how busy you might have felt reading that gratuitously long last sentence I just wrote. Life's like that. Busy busy busy.

[viewpoint]

The Black Market restriction is going to be a pain to keep track of after a few generations. If a founder generation steals some small item, it has to stay on the lot for all 10 generations? I mean at that point, it will have lost so much value that selling it is pocket change, anyway. Could we get a time restriction on it? Like after the thief dies and the object is inherited, it is no longer considered stolen. If only to make bookkeeping a little easier.
...
I think I'll give it a try, though. I'll just put stolen goods in the Family Inventory or something. I don't want to fail just because generation 7 sold a generation 2 stolen fishbowl.

Which was precisely why I asked: why don't we just come up with a specific mod that automatically keeps track of those rules and restrictions for us?

[spaceface]

Because. there. are. hardly. any. rules.

As far as klepto's stealing stuff goes, EVERY time you click on the mailbox with the klepto sim selected, you get an option to send back the stolen stuff that is in your family inventory. The stolen stuff comes up in a little list if you do this, you don't have to even remember what it is. Not only is this free, but your sim gets a buff from doing it.

If you have sims in the criminal track who bring home decor items, put the items in a secret attic storeroom or something.

I don't know why people are rushing off and getting their sims jobs, anyway. There are so many easier ways of surviving in this game. I gave my founder the "raise 5 children" LTW, her spouse had the "earn royalties writing books" one, my 2nd gen heir rolled "max writing and painting" and his spouse had the "13 perfect fish". If they roll wants for careers, I tend to let my sims get jobs only when they are well on their way to achieving their LTWs. Because they have more skills by then, they get promotions much faster which makes it more worthwhile.

[GayJohnScarritt]

I don't know why people are rushing off and getting their sims jobs, anyway.

Because we're F's and we want those 32 little Gold Stars for getting all the Career LTW's. 

But seriously, it is true that the game was much easier if the Founder (and hopefully spouse) has a stay at home "NYAH NYAH NYAH" LTW to fulfill (for me, it was the Gardening one).  They had enough money to fulfill all their needs on the home-lot plus pay for a 100k home before the first sproglette hit teen.

[Zazazu]

The Black Market restriction is going to be a pain to keep track of after a few generations. If a founder generation steals some small item, it has to stay on the lot for all 10 generations? I mean at that point, it will have lost so much value that selling it is pocket change, anyway. Could we get a time restriction on it? Like after the thief dies and the object is inherited, it is no longer considered stolen. If only to make bookkeeping a little easier.
...
I think I'll give it a try, though. I'll just put stolen goods in the Family Inventory or something. I don't want to fail just because generation 7 sold a generation 2 stolen fishbowl.

Which was precisely why I asked: why don't we just come up with a specific mod that automatically keeps track of those rules and restrictions for us?

Okay, now you are triple-posting. I take back what I said.

STOP IT. Use the "Insert Quote" button. Double-and-triple posting is frowned upon on this forum. And before you get smart, quadruple-posting is just double-posting doubly.

Here is the fucking FAQ. Read it. Abide by it. The only reason no one else has jumped down your throat is because the hardcore ones here think the Legacy Challenge is for 12s.

I don't know why people are rushing off and getting their sims jobs, anyway.

Because we're F's and we want those 32 little Gold Stars for getting all the Career LTW's. 

But seriously, it is true that the game was much easier if the Founder (and hopefully spouse) has a stay at home "NYAH NYAH NYAH" LTW to fulfill (for me, it was the Gardening one).  They had enough money to fulfill all their needs on the home-lot plus pay for a 100k home before the first sproglette hit teen.

This has been my experience, yes, and it doesn't restrict you at all from getting all 33 (note: there are actually 33 LTW, not 32).

Of the Tests, founder had the "raise five sprogs" want. She had eleven (four boys, seven girls). Before I moved five out, one of them, Lela had rolled the want for a perfect aquarium in early childhood. I was able to get her to that LTW a couple of days before she became an adult. At that point, I moved her out with four of her siblings who had rolled nothing but career wants. It was important to me that they had eleven kids, as these are a remake of my TS2 Tests, who had eleven kids with elixir. Now there are six other kids in the house. The eldest is getting close to her LTW of topping the Medical career, at which point she'll be shipped off, and one half of the many sets of twins is also getting close to the Art/Music one. Her fellow twin shouldn't take too terribly long with Jack of All Trades. Unfortunately, I have a big age gap between them and the three youngest (a set of boy twins, Jay and Walter, and a singleton girl named Jana who will be heir). The founder's spouse did Culinary. In the first and second generations, I should have ten LTW taken care of (Chuck, Saish, Lela, Katie, Emma, Hadley, Jay, Walter, Jana, and unknown spouse).

I think it's more of a completionist thing than an F thing. I'm one of those who will play a game over and over to get all the medals, or one of every object in a MMORPG.

[viewpoint]

Okay, now you are triple-posting. I take back what I said.

STOP IT. Use the "Insert Quote" button. Double-and-triple posting is frowned upon on this forum. And before you get smart, quadruple-posting is just double-posting doubly.

Alright, I think I need to get this straight once and for all. The FAQ says:

"If you want to quote multiple people, you can use the "insert quote" function"

Ok, got it.

If we're responding to 2 different persons, we would expect 2 different replies, right? Bundling responses to multiple persons would certainly make it difficult for the multiple addressees to see which parts are addressed to them.

Socially speaking, I would rather people respond to my posts in a single response post dedicated to feedback to me. Would be tough finding replies to my posts within a bundle. On other forums, it's either a ban for bundling replies like that (because it's socially rude), or we at least risk our addressees not finding relevant feedback.

Personally, I like the space savings.

I don't know why people are rushing off and getting their sims jobs, anyway.

Because we're F's and we want those 32 little Gold Stars for getting all the Career LTW's.  

I think it's more of a completionist thing than an F thing. I'm one of those who will play a game over and over to get all the medals, or one of every object in a MMORPG.

Yeah, I can understand that. A perfectionist thing too, maybe. If I married a rich real person, and have more time, maybe I can still stick to my obssession with completing games.

I make do by trying for quick and intense challenges. I'm thinking how I can do this legacy challenge (or any challenge at all) within a short time.

I did create a simple short challenge by modding the GameplayData.package, if anyone is interested. Certainly removes all (or at least most) book-keeping required to keep score.

Or if any challenge designers are interested in doing away with book-keeping, we can work together.

What are "12s"? 12 year-olds and younger?

EDIT: No. 12-18. Thanks FAQ.

If challenges actually come with consistently and easily/automatically enforced rules, they might appeal to a much wider audience?

EDIT: Please do consider moving the FAQ to a more global location. It's currently nested at least 2 levels deep inside the "The Sims 2" forum.

[witch]

If we're responding to 2 different persons, we would expect 2 different replies, right? Bundling responses to multiple persons would certainly make it difficult for the multiple addressees to see which parts are addressed to them.

Nope. Multiple replies per post are preferred. You can see your name at the top of the quote. See, here's another:

Please don't double-post. You can insert another quote simply by scrolling down and clicking the "Insert Quote" button. Also, a quick gander through the FAQ might help you. You seem to be a decent one.

See?

[soozelwoozel]

Alright, I think I need to get this straight once and for all. The FAQ says:

"If you want to quote multiple people, you can use the "insert quote" function"

Ok, got it.

If we're responding to 2 different persons, we would expect 2 different replies, right? Bundling responses to multiple persons would certainly make it difficult for the multiple addressees to see which parts are addressed to them.

Socially speaking, I would rather people respond to my posts in a single response post dedicated to feedback to me. Would be tough finding replies to my posts within a bundle. On other forums, it's either a ban for bundling replies like that (because it's socially rude), or we at least risk our addressees not finding relevant feedback.

Personally, I like the space savings.

What forums do you frequent? I've never been on one which favours double posting. Bundling responses doesn't make it any harder for people to read feedback and replies, as long as they're not complete idiots. We all manage it, and so do all the other forums I've ever been on. Also, you clearly need to go back to the drawing board and LURK MOAR if you think MATY is going to avoid something because it's 'socially rude'.

Zazazu politely told you to stop double posting and yet you proceeded to triple post straight away. You are swiftly plummeting from noob status to tard status. Congratulations. It's not as if MATY's rules on double posting are particularly difficult to comprehend. Just stop it.

[Nikki]

My third generation have now reached teenagers and my second generation heir has finally fulfilled her lifetime wish. Her husband's lifetime wish is golddigger so I was planning to kill her to fulfill his wish and then banish him from the household, but she won't die. I had her tinker with the TV at low handiness skill; once it just increased her skill and the second time it caught on fire. She won't die by fire because she keeps putting it out as she has the brave trait.

The dishwasher broke and I had her fix it but it only increased the skill and now she's at level 5. I don't want to drown her because it'll take too long and I'd rather it be more accidental. Should I just keep getting a technophobe to break things until she croaks? He's already an elder and I don't have much time until he dies.

[asmadasrabbits]

My third generation have now reached teenagers and my second generation heir has finally fulfilled her lifetime wish. Her husband's lifetime wish is golddigger so I was planning to kill her to fulfill his wish and then banish him from the household, but she won't die. I had her tinker with the TV at low handiness skill; once it just increased her skill and the second time it caught on fire. She won't die by fire because she keeps putting it out as she has the brave trait.

The dishwasher broke and I had her fix it but it only increased the skill and now she's at level 5. I don't want to drown her because it'll take too long and I'd rather it be more accidental. Should I just keep getting a technophobe to break things until she croaks? He's already an elder and I don't have much time until he dies.

I'd suggest having her repair something in a puddle of water, that seemed to make my sim get electrocuted easier.

[viewpoint]

What forums do you frequent? I've never been on one which favours double posting.

Subscribe to mailing lists like Qt-interest@trolltech.com .

Try dispensing with social niceties as simple as a "Hi everybody". Let me know how long you lasted.

Like I said. I personally prefer the space savings brought about by the MATY policies.

Things are tighter and more information-dense in other forums or lists, esp for hardcore coders like Linux lists.

But yes, we all have to learn different rules for different forums or communities. When in Rome... it's good to learn Roman (or Latin?).

[SolaceDevotio]

But yes, we all have to learn different rules for different forums or communities. When in Rome... it's good to learn Roman (or Latin?).

When in Rome it's good to learn Italian.

[rufio]

Subscribe to mailing lists like Qt-interest@trolltech.com .

Try dispensing with social niceties as simple as a "Hi everybody". Let me know how long you lasted.

Actually, I am subscribed to that list, and while I admit that I don't read it religiously (it's way to high volume for that), people seem perfectly happy to dispense with salutations and the like, and while they are reasonably polite and helpful, they aren't overly so.  Every time I've asked for help, I've just posted "Hey, I can't figure this out, does anyone else know how it works?" with no salutations or any extraneous politenesses, and everyone has been perfectly reasonable to me.

Also, double-posting doesn't really mean a whole lot in the context of an email list, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

[viewpoint]

Subscribe to mailing lists like Qt-interest@trolltech.com .

Try dispensing with social niceties as simple as a "Hi everybody". Let me know how long you lasted.

Actually, I am subscribed to that list, and while I admit that I don't read it religiously (it's way to high volume for that), people seem perfectly happy to dispense with salutations and the like, and while they are reasonably polite and helpful, they aren't overly so.  Every time I've asked for help, I've just posted "Hey, I can't figure this out, does anyone else know how it works?" with no salutations or any extraneous politenesses, and everyone has been perfectly reasonable to me.

Also, double-posting doesn't really mean a whole lot in the context of an email list, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

On hardcore technical lists, we don't even say "Hey". I got lambasted for omitting things like that. And yes, for bundling posts as well.

I even received a reprimand for top-posting. Usually, top-posting is required on other lists because people just wanna read the latest info, not the most recent history.