Motive bars outdated and restrictive?

[Angelo]

I think the addition of moodlets (buffs) makes gameplay more involved and adds meaning to previously meaningless actions (like washing teeth). But did they go far enough?

One of the annoyances of The Sims is that sometimes it feels like a "fill those bars before X!" race. But with the addition of moodlets, are bars necessary? Mood isn't directly tied to them, but through these moodlets which trigger when their percentage falls below or rises above certain levels (excluding moodlets which are tied to certain items, like the plasma tv moodlet).

Now I know that we have the option to switch to a different panel in order not to watch the bars, but still... its difficult to give up control that easily when it's only one click away . But what if bars where completely removed/hidden? What if satisfying the sims' needs was done only through the moodlets? No more bars to dictate us how to play, which of course isn't mandatory, but perfectionists as we are, we always want to see them bars on the green. But since the mood is affected only by the moodlets, it doesn't matter whether a bar is only half full, as long as its negative moodlet hasn't yet kicked in. You don't know if your sim wants a bath? Check the moodlets. If he doesn't stink then he doesn't need one. But you can still have one in order to become Sparkling Clean. Same with food, and sleep. Everything really.

Do you agree that this would make gameplay more interesting and fresh?

[LFox]

I gotta say that does sound like it'd make gameplay more interesting i'd never even thought of trying that.  It's entirely possible with the new moodlets.

Personally i don't think they added enough negative moodlets and the ones that are added give far less compared to the positive ones.  It's too easy to keep them happy.  In the morning my sims will have plus mood for, good sleep, good food, food prepared with best gear, squeeky clean, nice enviroment, comfy (chances are they'll be sitting down in some cushy chair).  Their mood bars are almost always maxed so their generating lifetime points.  One sim i managed to buy almost every single non object reward in her lifetime.

Even if their about to pee themselves and a tornado suddenly hits the house they still won't be low on mood with so many moodlets.

[Rothchild]

Motive bars still do affect a sims mood, it's just so easy to get jacked up on positive moodlets that it's hard to notice.  Infants are clear indicators of that, since they don't get moodlets.  I'd hate it if they hid the motives bar, because they'd still be functioning in the background, so they would just be taking away information we're shown.  I'm too much of a control freak to like that.  Imagine not knowing you had to use the bathroom until you got the two hour warning moodlet...  I foresee many wet pants that way.

[J. M. Pescado]

Now I know that we have the option to switch to a different panel in order not to watch the bars, but still... its difficult to give up control that easily when it's only one click away . But what if bars where completely removed/hidden? What if satisfying the sims' needs was done only through the moodlets?

This is a STUPID idea that came up during the early development, and we reacted by rioting against it.

No more bars to dictate us how to play, which of course isn't mandatory, but perfectionists as we are, we always want to see them bars on the green.

Of course we do. And I would accept nothing less! ACCEPT NO KEWIAN-BASED SUBSTITUTES! SEMPER FIDELIS TYRANNOSAURUS!

Do you agree that this would make gameplay more interesting and fresh?

No. DIAF. People like you are exactly what is ruining the game.

[MasterDinadan]

I don't think making the mood bars invisible would make it that much more difficult.  If you think it's too easy to get all of the rewards, shorten the lifespan.

[Zazazu]

As it is, moodlets expire. Ignoring needs is counterproductive, and will get you into a bind when you send a sim to work, positive moodlets expire, and you're bombarded by the effects of being stinky and stressed, which would have been avoided if you'd planned ahead to make sure that your sims were well set beforehand.

I don't really care for the moodlets that much. It's hard to make sims miserable without fears and with them getting buffs just from existing. If they aren't miserable, how will they learn?

[Angelo]

Now I know that we have the option to switch to a different panel in order not to watch the bars, but still... its difficult to give up control that easily when it's only one click away . But what if bars where completely removed/hidden? What if satisfying the sims' needs was done only through the moodlets?

This is a STUPID idea that came up during the early development, and we reacted by rioting against it.

No more bars to dictate us how to play, which of course isn't mandatory, but perfectionists as we are, we always want to see them bars on the green.

Of course we do. And I would accept nothing less! ACCEPT NO KEWIAN-BASED SUBSTITUTES! SEMPER FIDELIS TYRANNOSAURUS!

Do you agree that this would make gameplay more interesting and fresh?

No. DIAF. People like you are exactly what is ruining the game.

Well, I have no affiliation with other "people like me", nor with the EAxis development team, so I think the game is relatively safe, at least from me...

I agree that it's satisfying watching all the bars green at the same time, proving that you are a time management expert, or the feeling of accomplishment you get when after upgrading an item, a bed let's say, you watch the bar fill up faster than before. That was until Sims3. Now, there are moments where my needs are far from satisfied, yet my mood bar is ready to burst in green joy from all those positive situational moodlets like cozy fire, comfy, clean, amazing meal, amazing vista, decorations, etc. So I feel like filling the bars has no point any more. Are you satisfied with how this system turned out? Do you have other ideas for improvement? I'm interested to hear.

I gotta say that does sound like it'd make gameplay more interesting i'd never even thought of trying that.  It's entirely possible with the new moodlets.

Personally i don't think they added enough negative moodlets and the ones that are added give far less compared to the positive ones.  It's too easy to keep them happy.  In the morning my sims will have plus mood for, good sleep, good food, food prepared with best gear, squeeky clean, nice enviroment, comfy (chances are they'll be sitting down in some cushy chair).  Their mood bars are almost always maxed so their generating lifetime points.  One sim i managed to buy almost every single non object reward in her lifetime.

Even if their about to pee themselves and a tornado suddenly hits the house they still won't be low on mood with so many moodlets.

Yes, there are definitely not enough negative debuffs, or their duration is too small. Are moodlets moddable by the way?

I don't think making the mood bars invisible would make it that much more difficult.  If you think it's too easy to get all of the rewards, shorten the lifespan.

The point isn't to make it more difficult, but different.

As it is, moodlets expire. Ignoring needs is counterproductive, and will get you into a bind when you send a sim to work, positive moodlets expire, and you're bombarded by the effects of being stinky and stressed, which would have been avoided if you'd planned ahead to make sure that your sims were well set beforehand.

I don't really care for the moodlets that much. It's hard to make sims miserable without fears and with them getting buffs just from existing. If they aren't miserable, how will they learn?

Sure, it's easier to plan ahead using the bars. But perhaps it would be interesting to having to figure out ourselves what to do before work - one way would be by looking which moodlets are missing - instead of having it all dictated by the bars: "HAVE BATH!" "EAT!" "SHIT!". Don't moodlets have a "grace period" between their positive and negative version anyway? Except those like the coffee moodlet expiring while on red energy, of course.

Motive bars still do affect a sims mood, it's just so easy to get jacked up on positive moodlets that it's hard to notice.  Infants are clear indicators of that, since they don't get moodlets.  I'd hate it if they hid the motives bar, because they'd still be functioning in the background, so they would just be taking away information we're shown.  I'm too much of a control freak to like that.  Imagine not knowing you had to use the bathroom until you got the two hour warning moodlet...  I foresee many wet pants that way.

I'm not 100% sure... but the vibe I get is that mood is only affected by moodlets. Perhaps babies use the old algorithm for mood calculation. Also, at that point yes, it would be weird and unsettling to lose this control, but I try to imagine if motive bars where never in the game to begin with (and moodlets were always in), so long as to never resolve to actually missing them.

[Cheencheela]

Wow...

I'm... I'm actually enthralled about this topic.
Without bars, the game would be so much more 'fun' and less static.


If this feature could somehow... Be in the Awesome package as an (disabled by default) feature, I'd love it.


DO IT NAO! NAO!

[BastDawn]

There is a little arrow that will hide the motive bars.  Use a little self control and avoid peeking, and you'll never see a motive again.  Wanting a hack for the same function is incredibly stupid.

[Angelo]

Yeah it's not a matter of making a mod for it. The thread is meant for more of a theoretical game design discussion.

[Stitches]

Like BastDawn said, the retardness that you are proposing is already possible within game. Just never toggle that menu.

That said, I guess I never realized that there were so many players out there that SUCK SO BAD at playing the sims. The motives are the easy part and hardly tedious compared to the skill grinding.

[Sigmund]

I use a combination of ignoring the needs bars and cheating.  Maybe I'm just averse to change, but the moodlets seem pretty "meh" to me. I like the wants/fears set up in TS2, it seems truer to life. Plus, it makes it easier to have Sims sink into a deep depression.

[Angelo]

Like BastDawn said, the retardness that you are proposing is already possible within game. Just never toggle that menu.

That said, I guess I never realized that there were so many players out there that SUCK SO BAD at playing the sims. The motives are the easy part and hardly tedious compared to the skill grinding.

Is that directed to me? I never said motives are tedious, on the contrary, I said they're incredibly easy, and I'm not proposing that the needs be removed from the game via a hack, I just tried to start a discussion about what if motive bars where never in the game to begin with, how would the gameplay feel like if the only info we had were from the moodlets.

I guess the only thing I suck so bad at, is expecting people to read the whole thread before replying.

[Roflganger]

I've always been a perfection player, never able to get into the play style of deliberately making my Sims miserable. 

Anyway, my feeling about this topic is to not fix what I never considered broke.  Motive bars have been there from the beginning and I like them.  Taking them out would, IMO, be one more step towards making the game feel less related to its predecessors than it already does.

[GelatinousSubstance]

I use a combination of ignoring the needs bars and cheating.  Maybe I'm just averse to change, but the moodlets seem pretty "meh" to me. I like the wants/fears set up in TS2, it seems truer to life. Plus, it makes it easier to have Sims sink into a deep depression.

The moodlets are meh... They add nothing of real value... They suck!

I also like the wants/fears, at least ignoring them because they sucked had consequences, and they always made my sims more interesting and pathetic to play with.

I also like my little green bars just where they are - I like to tend to my Sim's needs.

Why even play the Sims and call it the sims if you're going to take everything that is the sims out of it?

[Jelenedra]

I do not feel like playing my Sims the way you raise babies.

"You're upset. Why? Are you hungry? Tired? Dirty? Lonely? TELL MEH!111"

I prefer to look at the bars and go, "Oh, you need a booty call. Coming right up."

[MasterDinadan]

I agree that it's satisfying watching all the bars green at the same time, proving that you are a time management expert, or the feeling of accomplishment you get when after upgrading an item, a bed let's say, you watch the bar fill up faster than before. That was until Sims3. Now, there are moments where my needs are far from satisfied, yet my mood bar is ready to burst in green joy from all those positive situational moodlets like cozy fire, comfy, clean, amazing meal, amazing vista, decorations, etc. So I feel like filling the bars has no point any more. Are you satisfied with how this system turned out? Do you have other ideas for improvement? I'm interested to hear.

Every single one of the needs bars has an associated moodlet when it gets too low.  "Filling the bars" is not at all pointless, as it will take them longer to drop into negative moodlet status.  It's completely intentional that your needs have no direct effect on your mood whatsoever, because they spawn moodlets that do.

The moodlets system is more interesting because you are rewarded for doing other things.  Instead of just eating, peeing, showering, and sleeping before work, you can now be rewarded for doing things like gussying up, brushing your teeth, or fulfilling a wish.  Then there are "memories" like weddings/babies/deaths that give longer lasting moodlets too.  It was kind of stupid that your best friend could die in TS2 and it would have no effect whatsoever on your sims mood (MAYBE on their aspiration, and only if they happened to have the fear.  not likely).  The aspiration system in TS2 was pretty flawed.  Moodlets are a vast improvement.

[maxon]

That said, I guess I never realized that there were so many players out there that SUCK SO BAD at playing the sims. The motives are the easy part and hardly tedious compared to the skill grinding.

I was going to say, it's not exactly that hard to get them in a good mood in the morning with or without the bars.  Make sure they sleep well, pee, wash, feed and off they go.  Not unlike me really. 

I use a combination of ignoring the needs bars and cheating.  Maybe I'm just averse to change, but the moodlets seem pretty "meh" to me. I like the wants/fears set up in TS2, it seems truer to life. Plus, it makes it easier to have Sims sink into a deep depression.

This - if we really want to persuade Pescado to do anything it's surely to give us the means to make the little gits more miserable.  I would find it hard to keep a Jack Thompson sim in the new game - in Sims 2 it was/is easy.

[EsotericPolarBear]

Sure, it's easier to plan ahead using the bars. But perhaps it would be interesting to having to figure out ourselves what to do before work - one way would be by looking which moodlets are missing - instead of having it all dictated by the bars: "HAVE BATH!" "EAT!" "SHIT!". Don't moodlets have a "grace period" between their positive and negative version anyway? Except those like the coffee moodlet expiring while on red energy, of course.

Considering that I'm a highly evolved human being capable of bathing, eating and shitting all in the hour or so before going to work in the morning and after getting a full night's rest of 6-8 hours, I'm not really sure that making a choice between the three in a game is all that compelling.

I use a combination of ignoring the needs bars and cheating.  Maybe I'm just averse to change, but the moodlets seem pretty "meh" to me. I like the wants/fears set up in TS2, it seems truer to life. Plus, it makes it easier to have Sims sink into a deep depression.

Actually, short of micromanaging the action bar, is pretty impossible to have sims sink into a deep depression in TS3.  Even with free will off, they take care of all their needs which pretty much results in a neutral mood state.

[Marq]

I think that the game play would be fresh but I don't think it would benefit anyone.  Yea, it'd be something new but it's not something most sim players want.  The big thing about the Sims is managing their needs, personal life, work life, family life, and social life.  Now, while I find the use of moodlets to be interesting I wish there were more negative ones.  Heck, I wish there was a way to truly make your sim angry at you enough to  curse you and wish a pox upon your family.  TS3, IMO, is too easy with the moodlets.  And while taking away the needs bars so that you don't know exactly what's wrong with your sim would make the game more challenging it would make you want to punch a baby every few minutes.  Have you ever taken care of a baby/toddler IRL?  That's what playing TS without need bars would be like.  You'll be constantly wondering if they're going to remain happy all the time.  Are they going to eat at work or should you make them eat now?  Are you going to over feed them if you feed them now?  But if you don't feed them what if they die on the job?  GAH!!!111!!one!

Yes, I must say I am happy to have the needs bars, slightly to have the moodlets, and unhappy with how long it takes to kill sims in TS3.

One thing that I wish EAxis had done was make the needs play into the mood bar and then have the moodlets be boosts to that.  Why the heck should my sim be insanely happy when they're starving, just pissed themselves from seeing a ghost, and in the red for fun?  Why?  I'll tell you why!  Because the day before they went to the movies, took a tour of a military base, had a great kiss, and I just so happened to fulfill a stupid "buy something worth $500" wish.  Yea...

[J. M. Pescado]

One thing that I wish EAxis had done was make the needs play into the mood bar and then have the moodlets be boosts to that.  Why the heck should my sim be insanely happy when they're starving,just pissed themselves from seeing a ghost, and in the red for fun?

That doesn't happen anymore, as far as I can tell. I can't see any code for ghosts making sims pee anymore.

[Marq]

Yea, they just faint or get scared (depending on their traits).  I was just exaggerating.