It's begun...

[MutantBunny]

Given the buggy/glitchy nature of Sims 2 and the EPs and now the pack, I blame the talent for that. But you're right, it could be that they are just too rushed. Nepotism explains a lot tho.

[Andygal]

I blame EA.

[baratron]

Wait a minute, let me see if I got that right. If you are a loyal, longstanding customer and bought the game early on (contending with all the idiocy, such as bugs, insults from their techs, etc..) you have to buy the add-on. If you are a new customer, and just bought the game, you're getting the add-on's for free? (Sorry for being dim, but I try to avoid the official site. I only go there through links posted from people here to get their lots, sims, read their stories etc.)

OK. The Sims 2 is more than a year old. It was released, when, October 2004? Or earlier?

OK, now go into Game / GameStop / Electronics Boutique / whatever the main gaming chain in your country is. Look at the PS2 games that are out on Platinum for half the price of the new games. Notice that the Platinum games are the ones that were the biggest sellers a mere 6 months ago. Yet now they're only £19.99 instead of £39.99.

OK. now go and look at the big PC RPGs and strategy games. Notice how many of them are now being sold with an expansion pack or extra missions tacked on - with the combined pack being the same price as other new games. Note that the expansion packs or extra mission packs are being sold separately for people who already have the game.

It is PERFECTLY NORMAL to re-release an OLD game at 1) half-price or 2) the same price but with new stuff added.

How would you feel if they'd dropped the price of Sims 2 instead? Would everyone then be standing around bitching that "I paid £40 for Sims 2, and now new people only have to pay £20 for it"? Or would you accept that the extra was the price you paid for buying the game when it was new, and that the £20 difference is well worth the months or years of fun that you've had out of the game?

I actually think the current compromise - of releasing half the stuff for free - is reasonable. People who are desperately desperately addicted can pay the extra money for some extra objects - or, more to the point, our friends & family members who are desperate for present ideas for us can buy it, and we'll go "uh, thanks". People who are not so addicted or who really cannot afford to buy the shopping pack won't get it, but won't really be missing out because they can download all the free stuff.

Remember what happened with Deluxe. Everyone bitched about that - but didn't the extra content eventually get released for free download?

[MutantBunny]

LOL! They HAVE dropped the price of the original game.  The original game was so buggy we could hardly play it, until Pescado came along. So for our loyalty, for wanting to play so bad we ran right out and got the game and the Eps the moment they were released, Maxis now is gouging us for the type of stuff they have historically given their fans for free. Why: cuz they are greedy is the only answer there. Oh yeah, seems fair...

[Bangelnuts]

LOL! They HAVE dropped the price of the original game.  The original game was so buggy we could hardly play it, until Pescado came along. So for our loyalty, for wanting to play so bad we ran right out and got the game and the Eps the moment they were released, Maxis now is gouging us for the type of stuff they have historically given their fans for free. Why: cuz they are greedy is the only answer there. Oh yeah, seems fair...

I paid 49.95 for the base  game now it sells for 39.95 so its still a chunk of change a year  after its release.most games after a year have dropped 50% Sims 2 hasnt so it must still be super popular .I paid 27.94 for Uni. and 29.84 for night life and 14.99 for the holiday pack so I have quite a bit of money tied up in this game.Im not complaining though after a trip to the local videogame store  I hate to say this but the Sims 2 and EP 's are reasonable in their prices .I saw games with a lot less content  at the  Game store selling for 75.00 and up.I talked with the manager at length and he said for the Money the Sims2 and EP's were a far better buy than games that cost more and have far more bugginess in them.  he showed me a war game  that costs a hundred bucks and you could barely play it with all the nasty bugs in it.I asked him about mods and fixes for that game and after he quit laughing he explained that the maker of the game  had made it impossible to make fixes by deleting files and codes in the game that are necessary to make fixes.while Im not a fan of corporate greed it did make me feel better about my investment in the  Sims2 and Ep's.
     at least with this game there are enough codes and files left in the game for Modders to read and make fixes .Im not a creator or a Modder but my hats off to them after talking with the manager tonight about buggy games.

[RainbowTigress]

At Amazon.com, you can get The Sims 2 for $34.99.  The price fluctuates from time to time, but it's been at this price for maybe a week.  This is for the CDROM version.  The DVD Special Edition still costs $49.99.  It doesn't look like that one will be coming down anytime soon.  By the way, you can't get the TS2 Holiday Edition on DVD.  So if you want the DVD version, you're going to have to pay even more if you want the holiday stuff.

[Hook]

He showed me a war game  that costs a hundred bucks and you could barely play it with all the nasty bugs in it.

What game is that?  I'm a wargamer and I don't know of anything currently on the market at that price.  But I haven't kept up recently.  I'd like to know what it was so I can avoid it.

I agree that Sims has been pretty darn cheap for the amount of fun I've gotten out of it.

Hook

[Motoki]

It is PERFECTLY NORMAL to re-release an OLD game at 1) half-price or 2) the same price but with new stuff added.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but I think it would have felt like far less of a slap in the face if they re-released it with University and just gave the holiday stuff free to everyone. I think pretty much everyone who wants University has it by now. And if I were a new buyer getting the game plus the expansion pack would tempt me into buying the game a whole lot more than the game plus a few items I would maybe use one month out of the year if that.

It's not so much then releasing the game with extras as it is them making the most loyal customers have to pay for those extras, and at a pretty high price considering how little you get as it costs 1/2 the cost of an expansion pack and 1/3 the cost of the game but you don't get anywhere near as much content.

[Bangelnuts]

It is PERFECTLY NORMAL to re-release an OLD game at 1) half-price or 2) the same price but with new stuff added.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but I think it would have felt like far less of a slap in the face if they re-released it with University and just gave the holiday stuff free to everyone. I think pretty much everyone who wants University has it by now. And if I were a new buyer getting the game plus the expansion pack would tempt me into buying the game a whole lot more than the game plus a few items I would maybe use one month out of the year if that.

It's not so much then releasing the game with extras as it is them making the most loyal customers have to pay for those extras, and at a pretty high price considering how little you get as it costs 1/2 the cost of an expansion pack and 1/3 the cost of the game but you don't get anywhere near as much content.

I admit the price of the holiday pack did irk me  nightlife cost me 29.84 and the holiday pack 14.99 50% of the EP prices. I am upset with ea  for that one and I complained to them about it not that it will do a bit of good

[veilchen]

I most certainly 'bitch' about being impatient to buy something and then it comes down in price by a margin that makes me look like a fool. With TS2, I don't have too much to bitch about now, do I? Their prices come down in drips and dabs, unlike many other games. At least in this area.

If ea/maxis decides to tack on Uni or NL to the core game and sell both at a reduced price (a la Simcity 4 and Rush-hour) that will save the customer a bit of change, I would most likely sigh and shake my head at my impatience. But oh well, that's something we are certainly all used too. Clearance sales, fall sales, groundhog day sales, all those are times when I go into a store, see merchandise greatly reduced and I'm a tad bit upset if I see something half-price that I paid full price for. Oh well, again, it's not new. You want to get rid of the shelf-sitters? Sell more of the core game? Well, then tack Uni onto it, reduce it in price so that new customers will pay $10.00 or maybe even $15.00 less if they get the game. Would I bitch about that? Perhaps a little, but I would not really be greatly upset, again, that's the way it is all around.

However, this one is different. They offer brand new items, items that are in neither the original core or the ep's. Not only that, they change the core game by adding a feature, even though form what I heard from people, that feature is practically worthless (for now). They also propose to make frequent add-ons at exorbitant prices. Excuse me, but $20.00 for add-ons? Please, don't make me laugh. But that is exactly what they were thinking about, because that's what they had in their survey. Do they offer the add-ons at a price that is comparable with the 'new' core game plus add-ons? I don't think so, although I must admit that I haven't been to a gaming store in a while.

TS2 is popular because of the modding, hacking, and creative possibilities. This new practice will make it harder for creators and customers.  If another game company whose merchandise I purchase gets into the practice of doing that, I will complain about that as well. And I would also cease to purchase their products. I am not limiting myself to ea/maxis, I would do that all around, I hate being exploited. It is, in my opinion, cheating the loyal customers, people who have been playing a long time, and most likely had a great hand in spreading the game's fame around, thereby creating new customers.

TS1 did what I described above. The offered the core game with one, two, or even 3 ep attached for a greatly reduced price. I'm quite ok with that, you do what you have to to get rid of the merchandise. However, the practice of offering stand alone add-ons for a riduculous price while tacking them onto the core game is cheating and punishing your loyal customers. 40 not so new and ridiculously cheap looking items that are buggy for $15 - $18 if purchased separately? Please.

They want to make that a 'regular feature', meaning they want to release add-ons on a monthly, or bi-monthly basis. And I know that because I took the survey, and that was exactly what was mentioned in several of their survey questions. There is a reason I don't ever join/visit pay-sites. I don't want to spend money for items that I can get for free elsewhere, and most of the time in better condition so to speak. Maxis' newest release is full of bugs, and I do believe the other add-on's will be too. That is just the way they have been doing things all the way around. They and their customers would be better off if they put new items and features into the new legitimate ep's. But let's do the math: $15 - $20 add-ons every month = $90 - $100 per customer, based on a six month time span that it usually takes ea/maxis to crank out their buggy regular ep's. Compared to $25 - $34 in six month. Hmm, I don't think you have to be a mathematical genius to figure that one out. So, with their new non pay-site pay-site feature, they stand to make appr. $115 - $134 in six month per customer. An nice chunk of change, I would say.

[baratron]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but I think it would have felt like far less of a slap in the face if they re-released it with University and just gave the holiday stuff free to everyone. I think pretty much everyone who wants University has it by now. And if I were a new buyer getting the game plus the expansion pack would tempt me into buying the game a whole lot more than the game plus a few items I would maybe use one month out of the year if that.

It seems that several people have this idea. By the way, something I love about this site is that I could play Devil's advocate, and no one insulted me. Yet. There's still time .

Seriously, it's interesting that re-releasing TS2+Uni would be less offensive to people than releasing (not very impressive) new stuff. I'm surprised, because most of us bitch & moan about Maxis-made content anyway - none of it matches. Did I really hear some vague mumblling from a Maxoid that they deliberately make it non-matching, 'cos they know the fans will just match the set anyway, and doing that gives us "more choice"? Maybe I hallucinated that while high on prescription painkillers . But yeah - the possible exception to the near-universal moaning is hairstyles, as Maxis are, at least, able to create new animations to make the hair "bounce" properly. Which none of the modders can do, because we don't have access to their tools.

However, this one is different. They offer brand new items, items that are in neither the original core or the ep's. Not only that, they change the core game by adding a feature, even though form what I heard from people, that feature is practically worthless (for now). They also propose to make frequent add-ons at exorbitant prices. Excuse me, but $20.00 for add-ons?

Yeah, assuming you mean US dollars, $20 is a lot for ~40 items. I haven't really bothered to do the research to find out whether the Holiday extras have been released at a comparable price in all countries. I've seen US $15 quoted, which agrees fairly well with the UKP £7.99 (we get ripped off a bit, but we're used to it - notice how many games consoles come out at US $199, 199 Euros, and UKP £199 ).

I must admit that I have a slightly different approach on this than most people because I'm a Pokemon fan. In case you don't know, the Pokemon GameBoy games have always been released in two versions: Red/Blue, Silver/Gold, Ruby/Sapphire. These games are identical in terms of plot, but there are 6-11 Pokemon that are exclusive to each edition. To catch all of them, you either have to find a friend with the other copy of the game and trade, or you have to be rich and buy both. The idea is that you trade.

Buy 2 copies of a game at £35? You have to be joking! Or at least, you had to be joking before I got addicted. When I found out that Ruby & Sapphire were exactly the same game from reading GameFAQs, I was horrified! But, 100 hours into Sapphire with a still nowhere near filled Pokedex, and as an adult with disposable income and without a handy supply of kids to trade with (I could trade with my students, but that seems wrong somehow), I cracked. I bought a second-hand Ruby cartridge from my local Computer Exchange (video game part-exchange shop thingy), which was a mere £15. And now I routinely buy the game I like the box of most new, and then pick up the second one second-hand a few weeks later. Moreover, bizarre though it may sound, I play my way through both. The first one is the test where I learn what I'm supposed to do, and the second one I do as a speed-run, to see how quickly I can "beat" the game once I know what I'm doing.

When you have already bought the same game twice for a small percentage of additional content (~an extra 10 out of 200 Pokemon), EA re-releasing TS2 with 40 extra items seems like nothing  .

TS2 is popular because of the modding, hacking, and creative possibilities. This new practice will make it harder for creators and customers.

Good point. I'd like to hope that Maxis would license the decent custom content that's out there and legitimise it. This could well be the only way for good content to come out on the Shopping Packs, as the actual Maxoids should be busy with the next Expansion Pack. Hell, why not give people limited access to Edith/Simantics? (Well, yeah, we know why not. EA is evil, etc.)

I agree with the sentiment I saw elsewhere on this site today that "they" need to learn that the Sims/Sims 2 community does not consist only of the people who hang out at the "Official BBS". There are a lot of intelligent and creative people around, and we're not all spoilt little kids. I do think they need to look at the demographic across Sims sites in general, not just their Sims site, which is particularly difficult to read for anyone with a grain of common sense. But then we're back with the initial reason for MATY having Retardo Land, and everything's gone full circle.

[Motoki]

By the way, something I love about this site is that I could play Devil's advocate, and no one insulted me. Yet. There's still time .

You suck!

Just kidding.

And Nintendo is great for gimmicks. Some of them work, some of them don't (remember that damned robot?).

I admit to going out and buying the Gameboy advance so I could hook it up to my Gamecube and be able to sail to a tropical island it unlocks on Animal Crossing so even I fall for the marketing BS sometimes. 

[Hairfish]

I confess. I have two Furbies.

[Pegasys]

As an adult where money is not as much of an issue I honestly am not bothered by the price of these games or expansion packs. Because I used to be (pre-kids) an avid movie-goer, I compare games and other entertainment to the price of a movie. A movie plus popcorn and soda can easily top $20, and that's for about 2 hours of entertainment. The Sims 2? Well I got the base game in June, I believe it was. I played for two solid months before even buying University. Then Uni, then Nightlife. I have no idea how many hours of entertainment that is, but it's probably in the hundreds. Egads. AND, I still feel like I've barely scratched the surface. For example, I've barely gotten into the building aspect, nor do I have much custom content. Yet. This game is, IMHO, incredibly deep. No other game that I've played has such depth. I might get bored with it for awhile, but I know I can come back to it and explore a whole different angle. 

[J. M. Pescado]

As an adult where money is not as much of an issue I honestly am not bothered by the price of these games or expansion packs. Because I used to be (pre-kids) an avid movie-goer, I compare games and other entertainment to the price of a movie.

That's kind of a lousy metric. Maybe you should also compare every experience to being anally raped by wild boars. That'll certainly give you a more cheerful outlook on life.

A movie plus popcorn and soda can easily top $20, and that's for about 2 hours of entertainment.

THAT is a RIPOFF. I would not pay more than $1.50 for the tickets to ANY movie, and popcorn alone is worth maybe $0.50. No wonder you have a skewed view of pricing.

[BlueSoup]

Well, JM, the prices of movies has gone up since 1965, and so you may not be used to that, what with basically being a hermit in a bunker in the middle of bumf*ck, Montana.   

[Hairfish]

Damn movie tickets are $8 now, unless you go to a matinee, which is a lot like flying a cheap airline except you won't be sucked into oblivion if you open the emergency exit to escape the screaming babies and babbling toddlers.

That's why Blockbuster Online and Netflix are so popular. They're relatively cheap. Plus the popcorn is better, and the floor isn't quite so sticky.

I don't suppose either of those by-mail movie rental programs would work so well if you have your mail drop-shipped through 14 countries and then trucked to your compound, though.

[Motoki]

Well that's why you sneak food into the theater duh.

Seriously, whether I have the money or not, I don't pay for something that is so obviously a rip off. That's why I don't buy snacks at movie theaters and that's why I didn't buy the holiday pack.

It's not a matter of if I can afford or it not, or gee let me find some other rip off thing people waste money on and compare. It's a matter of are we being taken for a ride? Loyal customers bought the game when it came out and have to pay $15 for a small pack of very seasonal items, yet people buying the game for the first time get it for free. They didn't even give people a discount for not having to pay for CD and packaging etc when they do the direct download, they still charged the same damned $15 price even though the people who bought hard copies got free shipping which EA presumably ate. Hell, even Prima gives a discount if you download an E version of their guide.

I think the replay value on this pack stinks. Except possibly for the long beards (and there were already custom versions of long beards out anyway), at most I see myself using this stuff to have one Santa visit or one New Year's Party and then not using it for another whole friggin year.

Is the holiday pack better than a poke in the eye? Yes. Does that mean we should be praising EA for giving us no real new interactions or features worth a damn and maybe 2-3% of the items at 33% of the price of the full game and 50% of the price of the expansion? No. Not in my book anyhow.

[Bangelnuts]

Well that's why you sneak food into the theater duh.

Seriously, whether I have the money or not, I don't pay for something that is so obviously a rip off. That's why I don't buy snacks at movie theaters and that's why I didn't buy the holiday pack.

It's not a matter of if I can afford or it not, or gee let me find some other rip off thing people waste money on and compare. It's a matter of are we being taken for a ride? Loyal customers bought the game when it came out and have to pay $15 for a small pack of very seasonal items, yet people buying the game for the first time get it for free. They didn't even give people a discount for not having to pay for CD and packaging etc when they do the direct download, they still charged the same damned $15 price even though the people who bought hard copies got free shipping which EA presumably ate. Hell, even Prima gives a discount if you download an E version of their guide.

I think the replay value on this pack stinks. Except possibly for the long beards (and there were already custom versions of long beards out anyway), at most I see myself using this stuff to have one Santa visit or one New Year's Party and then not using it for another whole friggin year.

Is the holiday pack better than a poke in the eye? Yes. Does that mean we should be praising EA for giving us no real new interactions or features worth a damn and maybe 2-3% of the items at 33% of the price of the full game and 50% of the price of the expansion? No. Not in my book anyhow.

not all of us got free shipping either .I ordered it just before that offer was made from EA so I had to pay $5.99 S&H plus the 14.99 and a $1.62 sales tax bringing the total for a $2.00 add on pack to $22.10 and yes Im majorly irked about it.its not the money per se its the whole principle of being ripped off that Im pissed off about

[Motoki]

Well that's yet again another example of how they punish their most loyal customers, the early adopters. When they decided to do that free shipping offer they really should have made it retroactive.

[Hook]

It's worse than it looks.

There's a list of all the 40 items in the holiday pack on the BBS.  If you take away the items we've already gotten, factor in the three strings of lights as being a recolor of the same string, and assuming we are getting more than just factoids and blooper pics for free on the Maxis site, there are about 20 new items not available anywhere else.

This does not include the new clothes (Santa suits, etc) and holiday themed wall and floor coverings (which we can probably make ourselves without much skill or effort).

Check out the list at http://bbs.thesims2.ea.com/community/bbs/messages.php?&openItemID=&threadID=4706ce21c6ef2085b783bba822e35b65&directoryID=2&startRow=1#5fd966d346918d01cff8f29f9e26b2da and decide for yourself.

Hook

[Motoki]

I wouldn't count the paintings either personally. They are pathetically easy to make. I could have made a similar set of Christmas paintings myself in 5 minutes.

[syberspunk]

@Bagelnuts: Could you have cancelled your original order and then re-ordered with the free shipping in effect? Just wondering. I know you probably would have gotten your game slightly later, but at least you woulda saved the extra 7$ that EA screwed you for.

Anyone still get the EA Store e-mail newsletters? Remember when they used to have monthly online discount coupons for 15$? They don't seem to do that anymore... but if you email customer service, you can usually get one still if you *ahem* know how. It's stupid and lame, but hey it works, and it's about the only reason why I can still justify pre-ordering these games. At least I can get the game fairly early, and get a 15$ discount so I end up only paying 25ish overall. Before, I was able to get it even cheaper when they actually let you have free shipping and handling together with the discount. But they got "smart" and disabled that. Still, it's better and cheaper than buying it at a regular ole' store. Plus, I don't feel so bad about it or want to kick myself in the pants when a few months later, I see it at Costco or Best Buy at a slightly reduced price.

Plus... I'm finding that overall, us "early adopters" as Motoki puts it are getting royally screwed with the whole double dipping. Now... normally I enjoy a double dipping   but when it comes to shelling money out of my pocket for it, money that I actually really don't have nowadays, it definately feels comparable to getting "raped by wild boars." It's not just in the game industry, but in all forms of entertainment, including cds and dvds. I absolutely hate it when super extra special extended platinum editions of CDs and DVDs are released much later of my favorite albums and movies. It's really hard to resist buying then when the originals are first released, especially when you feel like you might be missing out on "savings" at say Best Buy, which generally has discounts on the first day/week of release. But then you get screwed when you later find out a better, more "special" edition comes out with extra music tracks or extra specials in dvds for pretty much a nominal additional charge, or even worse, the exact same price!

Especially so for these new CD/DVD DualDiscs that are being released nowadays. I'd rather have bought these versions in the beginning with the neat extras they've added, but its a bitch when they aren't released the same day as the original. I've noticed that more and more, they are usually released at the same time, but in a few cases they aren't. I don't know why some albums aren't released at the same time, or why some albums don't have a DualDisc to begin with. But I really feel that, as a fan of these artists, I get screwed by buying the album earlier.  

The same goes for movies as well; sometimes they are released fairly early on dvd, with hardly a spits worth of extras. You feel like you want to get the dvd because you really love the movie, only later you find out that a "special" edition gets released after you've already bought the "not-so-special" original one. What's worse is that this trend is also happening with TV shows. This infuriates me to no end because in many cases, the more loyal fans who purchased the dvds from the get go are getting royally screwed!!! For example, the full boxed set of Sex and the City and Buffy the Vampire Slayer both have these neat boxes/cases with additional content at an overall much cheaper price than if you had bought all the seasons individually! Friends also comes at a much cheaper price with a really cool looking box (but no additional extras from what I can tell). You can order the box for 10$ with an additional 10$ for shipping and handling which, sucker that I am, will still do because I want the neat little case to display for my dvd shelf. X-Files is another show where the seasons originally were insanely overpriced (retailing up to $100+ each) and are now discounted to $50ish.  It just doesn't seem fair. If it weren't for the loyal "early adopters" these shows probably wouldn't have made so much money to begin, and dvd sales wouldn't have been so successful. Now, I realized that the dvd sets in general would have gone down in price over time, but it just seems to add insult to injury when they make complete sets available, at a much cheaper price with additional content!

So, I can totally understand and sympathize with Motoki's point of view. It's not just the fact that it's being offered period, but that it's completely "new" content and that early adopters have to pay for it! On top of that, the content is mostly if not all crap! I think that companies should offer these "upgrades" or new, "special" content for either free or at least at some discounted price, to early adopters. They should offer mail-in rebates for these items and we should be able to send in "proofs of purchase(s)" or whatever, so that we get the same content as everyone else. I've sort of gotten better about this and nowadays, I try to google/search for any "special" editions that are scheduled for release much later. And if a DVD I want doesn't have any "special" content, then I hold off on purchasing it, just in case a "special" edition is released later. But in the case where you don't know if it will be released later, it kinda sucks to have to wait. Oh well, what can you do?  

Ste

[MutantBunny]

Well, because you, and many more, go ahead and give in to that 'want' for buying the case at an extra cost, or repurchasing to get the extras etc is WHY THEY DO IT! And if one industry makes a profit, dvds, then of course the others have to jump on board, games, cds, etc. Duh. (Sorry--makes me crazy.)

HOw many have called the manufactor or even the distributor or even said something to a clerk 'this pisses me off. I feel ripped off. What a lousey practice." you get the idea.

If we all keep or mouths shut, 'be polite' and pay away then the corps are gonna carry on! Why shouldn't they? What have they got to lose?

[Pegasys]

As an adult where money is not as much of an issue I honestly am not bothered by the price of these games or expansion packs. Because I used to be (pre-kids) an avid movie-goer, I compare games and other entertainment to the price of a movie.

That's kind of a lousy metric. Maybe you should also compare every experience to being anally raped by wild boars. That'll certainly give you a more cheerful outlook on life.

Uh, no, I think not..  The movie comparison works fine enough to keep my outlook cheerful.

A movie plus popcorn and soda can easily top $20, and that's for about 2 hours of entertainment.

THAT is a RIPOFF. I would not pay more than $1.50 for the tickets to ANY movie, and popcorn alone is worth maybe $0.50. No wonder you have a skewed view of pricing.

Ahhh, JM is not a movie-goer. Nowadays for us it's about once a month, and yes, we make the most of it. Gotta have the popcorn, it's part of the experience.  (Where's that popcorn-eating smiley when you need it?)