Lest we forget: SPORE

[rohina]

Dude, define "easier". Have you hunted? Have you hunted with primitive weaponry? Have you farmed? Seems to me that this is an armchair theory with nothing to support it.

[rufio]

Eh, there have been studies that prove that hunter-gatherers spent less time working compared to farmers.  I don't think I read any of them online, though, so I guess you'll just have to take my word for it.  Obviously if you're used to doing one, the other is going to sound harder.

ETA: If you have any faith in a wikipedia article of disputed neutrality, there is some info about it here.  I'm not claiming it's necessarily accurate, but it's more or less what I would have said if I had more time and gave more of a shit.

[Faizah]

"Less time working" does not necessarily mean it was easier work.

[Zazazu]

Well, this is interesting. Every time I start a game on a new planet, yet another planet is added next time I fire up the game. I'm up to eight saved games and the last three times I've started one, I've had exactly six more possible planets to start on.


Hunter-gatherer societies just aren't feasible in the age we live in now. There isn't enough viable land to support current population. Now, if we were like the Goompahs in Jack McDevitt's Omega, this wouldn't be an issue. But I can't close my fallopian tubes at a whim. Can you?

[rohina]

ETA: If you have any faith in a wikipedia article of disputed neutrality, there is some info about it here.  I'm not claiming it's necessarily accurate, but it's more or less what I would have said if I had more time and gave more of a shit.

"Disputed neutrality:" so you are asking us to rely on something less reliable than regular wikipedia? And you don't give a shit? Dude, this is Retardo Land. If you don't want to back up your arguments with solid evidence, don't start with us.

[Paperbladder]

If you want HARD, instead of evolving, devolve. Play as a limbless, eyeless, mustachioed slug, and make it to the Civ stage (where it ceases to matter that you are a blind, limbless slug). On HARD, of course.

Damn, I forgot that you said the thing should be mustachioed.  Then again, I don't know exactly where a mustache would go on this thing.

This victim of ID is named Verma.  I had to put some spit and strike weaponry on him for to survive the creature stage though, I was not going to spend 2 hours using Siren Song to impress everyone.  As for the not having eyes issue, it only affects the first two stages, gives you less sight range, and makes everything dark.  Essentially, there is no real disadvantage to being eyeless.

Creature Stage

Tribal Stage

Civilization/Space Stage

All of the paths taken with this creature were green which gave the Shaman card as the final one.  Also, the right mouth doesn't seem to work during communications.  I wonder if this is because the developers didn't expect someone to finish the game using a split filter mouth.

In other news, it's pretty neat that you can find the planets in your other save games and communicate with them.  However, the fact that it saves them along with the empires near them really makes you think that the universe is probably already populated with all of the creatures you will visit ala Sim Townies.

[Gus Smedstad]

Human beings were hunter-gatherers for two million years, and it was originally employed by all humans, which cannot be said at all for agriculture.

Dude, that is an incredibly stupid argument.  You might as well say that the transition to larger brains was a bad, thing because for hundreds of millions of years our remote ancestors had brains the size of a walnut, and that can't be said at all for brains of our current size.

For someone without your weird love affair for hunting gatherer societies, this is actually an argument for agriculture, because it took only a few thousand years for a different method to completely replace something that had been in place for millions of years.

Have you forgotten how evolution works?

No, but you apparently have.  You think that evolution is about what you think is "easier," when in fact it's about having more babies.  Agricultural societies could support more people, and that's why they pushed out the hunter / gatherers.

And you know why that is?  Despite your assertion, made up out of thin air to support your predetermined conclusion, it takes far, far less land to feed a person with agriculture.  The "stupendous amounts of land" you complain about was only needed because there were a stupendous amount of people.  Well, not really stupendous by our standards, but compared to the hunter-gatherers with whom they were competing.

The main mystery is what made it seem like a good idea up to that point.

More food and more babies.  That's a basic drive in every animal on the planet.

And I think a small, self-contained hunter-gatherer culture would be more interesting to play than a space-age culture that goes flying around the galaxy blowing up planets.  I guess it's just me.

That's the statement that made it clear to me that I was dealing with yet another weird fanatic with a fetish for hunter-gatherers.  This sort of argument belongs in Retardo Land.  Is that your response to every game that involves the advance of civilization?

"When I play Age of Empires, I refuse to advance beyond the Stone Age."
"Civilization would be a lot more interesting if you could just play one as one of the tribal villages."
"Master of Orion doesn't interest me because it isn't about  a small, self-contained hunter-gatherer culture."

--------

Damn, I forgot that you said the thing should be mustachioed.  Then again, I don't know exactly where a mustache would go on this thing.

Well done!  When I read J.M.'s quote, I dismissed it as impossible, but I forgot to think in Email Challenge terms.  Limbless, eyeless, and mustachioed does not preclude weapons.
 
 - Gus

[J. M. Pescado]

Damn, I forgot that you said the thing should be mustachioed.  Then again, I don't know exactly where a mustache would go on this thing.

By "Musctachioed", I meant that it would have the basic herbivore mustache mouth, thus being incapable of defending itself during the cell stage.

This victim of ID is named Verma.  I had to put some spit and strike weaponry on him for to survive the creature stage though, I was not going to spend 2 hours using Siren Song to impress everyone.

But doing that defeats the point of the challenge! The point is that you weren't supposed to evolve, and, in fact, devolve. But you can still bite people with your mustache.

In other news, it's pretty neat that you can find the planets in your other save games and communicate with them.  However, the fact that it saves them along with the empires near them really makes you think that the universe is probably already populated with all of the creatures you will visit ala Sim Townies.

You can visit your other games? What happens, do you encounter the other Paperbladderian Empire you made? Does it break anything if you invade yourself?

[Gus Smedstad]

But doing that defeats the point of the challenge! The point is that you weren't supposed to evolve, and, in fact, devolve. But you can still bite people with your mustache.

OK, lay out the rules.  Basic herbivore mouth only, no creature stage parts.  What Cell stage parts are permitted?  Only the herbivore mouth, perhaps?

 - Gus

[J. M. Pescado]

OK, lay out the rules.  Basic herbivore mouth only, no creature stage parts.  What Cell stage parts are permitted?  Only the herbivore mouth, perhaps?

Only the herbivore mouth. You even lose the starting eye and tail, thus devolving. Expect to die a lot, as you are a defenseless mustachio-mouthed slug. When reaching the creature stage, remain as a blob! You may be any color or shape of blob, but you are a blob. Limbs are permitted to give your blob some flair if you wish, but no actual HANDS or FEET or any other part. If you install an arm or leg, you must remove the foot or hand and not replace it, to keep it as a nonfunctional part.

Of course, once you reach Tribal, if you reach Tribal, you are permitted to give your blob a hat.

[jsalemi]

I'm still confused as to how you download other people's creatures?

There is two ways.  At the Spore website in the Sporepedia you right click on what you want and save it to the creatures folder.  The other way is in the game if you are able to go online.  Go to the Sporepedia, and under creatures click Search Online.  There is a link under each creation for downloading.

So since I have an arr'ed game I probably shouldn't do the second one?

Right; if you're arr'ed, you can't register and go online.

[wes_h]

Of course, once you reach Tribal, if you reach Tribal

Shift-Ctrl-C brings up a console (deja vu all over again)

levels -unlock

will let you start a new game at any level you want.

[jsalemi]

Well, my current copy is seriously borked, so I'm sure I got a corrupted download.  Got a new creature on a new planet to tribal, and had the same problem with the tribal leader locking up.  Fortunately I got a new copy arr'ing, so I should get back to the game soon...

[Zazazu]

All of the paths taken with this creature were green which gave the Shaman card as the final one.  Also, the right mouth doesn't seem to work during communications.  I wonder if this is because the developers didn't expect someone to finish the game using a split filter mouth.

With the Morekin, who are two-headed wingless birds, only the right mouth (as I'm facing them) speaks in Space mode.

[Ellatrue]

I don't know of any hunter-gatherer societies that have moved beyond the tribal stage.

Agriculture, as I understand it, is what allowed society to become more highly organized with a greater division of labor among different trades. Producing food more efficiently meant that everyone didn't have to be involved in food production, thus paving the way for art/science/government/what-have-you. In other words, "a civilization." Something larger, more organized, and more complex than tribal society. When everyone is busy hunting/gathering, they don't have time to build a civilization--only for living from day to day. This is why there's a theory that agricultural societies are what drove the hunter-gatherers to extinction.  Note the distinction between "civilization" as a general term that encompasses things like culture and values, and "A civilization," which has a much more specific meaning in this discussion, especially in terms of Spore.

I think the real question here should be more along the lines of "why can't I stay in the tribal stage forever," instead of "why can't I have a hunter-gatherer civilization?" There IS something to be said for hunter-gatherer societies. It's a completely different way of life. However, Spore makes more sense the way it is now.

It would be cool if you could play as a tribal society and try to survive as the rest of the world moves past you to the civ stage, explores space, etc. Now that would be a real (if somewhat depressing) challenge! Basically, you'd have to find a place that's extremely abundant with life, very biodiverse, and difficult for the "civilized world" to reach. Either that, or a place so far on the fringes that no one wants it, with a climate so unsuitable to agriculture that specialized knowledge of hunting/gathering would give you a relative advantage.

[J. M. Pescado]

It would be cool if you could play as a tribal society and try to survive as the rest of the world moves past you to the civ stage, explores space, etc. Now that would be a real (if somewhat depressing) challenge! Basically, you'd have to find a place that's extremely abundant with life, very biodiverse, and difficult for the "civilized world" to reach. Either that, or a place so far on the fringes that no one wants it, with a climate so unsuitable to agriculture that specialized knowledge of hunting/gathering would give you a relative advantage.

Sim-Eskimo?

[syberspunk]

I'm still confused as to how you download other people's creatures?

There is two ways.  At the Spore website in the Sporepedia you right click on what you want and save it to the creatures folder.  The other way is in the game if you are able to go online.  Go to the Sporepedia, and under creatures click Search Online.  There is a link under each creation for downloading.

Just to clarify, when you go online, and go to the Sporepedia, can you browse random people?  Or do you have to specifically search for usernames?  Or, do you mean that this Search Online option does allow you to just browse random people's custom made content?

I vaguely recall having access to random stuff, when I very briefly played around the the creature creator.  But when I last went in (about a week ago), I could only see the 30 EAxis pre-mades and my one creature.  I couldn't see anything else, and I musta been totally blind or something, as I don't remember seeing this Search Online option, and I don't remember using it the last time. 

If you use the no-cd.exe and a keygened key, then you can't go online.  If you use it with a legitimate key, you can go online, but you're subject to the 3-installation restriction (I believe).  But you won't have suckrot on your machine.

However, the three-install thing seems (from what I hear) to be negated by the crack even if you have a legit number, because the cracked exe won't phone home to reduce your install count on their server.

Right; if you're arr'ed, you can't register and go online.

No, the cracked exe doesn't come with a pre-genned number; you still have to gen one (or get one) and enter it in during install.  Others in this tread have reported going online successfully with a legitimate game with the no-cd.exe to keep it from installing SecuROM.

BZZZT!!!  Conflicting info.  Does not compute.   HALP!  I R confused!!!111oneoneleventy 

So... which is it?  I has a legitimate copy and I has arr'd so I could play without suckrot.  Can I go online with my legit SN# without reducing the install count?

But I don't think there's any real advantage to going online -- you can search the Sporepedia on the website, and save the creatures/vehicles/whatever that interest you.  Just plop them in the proper sub-directory under 'My Spore Creations' and they'll show up in your game.  They don't always show up in your game's off-line Sporepedia, but I've seen them actually show up in the game itself. But at least that way you have complete control over your game, and aren't stuck with random crap it decides to download on its own.

Can someone again sum up any differences between online and offline play?

Are the only benefits of going online:

1) "direct" access to the Sporepedia... and thus you can download other people's custom made creatures by clicking (instead of saving .png files and "installing" them?

2) random content crap being downloaded to your game?

3) achievments/easter egg lists?


Is that it?

Also... if you want to "install" other creatures via .png files, what directory to you "install" them in?  Does it just go in:

C:\Documents and Settings\<User Name>\My Documents\My Spore Creations\Creatures

I just want to be certain.  Thanks.


Ste

[Solowren]

Just to clarify, when you go online, and go to the Sporepedia, can you browse random people?

Yessir.

Can someone again sum up any differences between online and offline play?

Are the only benefits of going online:

1) "direct" access to the Sporepedia... and thus you can download other people's custom made creatures by clicking (instead of saving .png files and "installing" them?

2) random content crap being downloaded to your game?

3) achievments/easter egg lists?


Is that it?

I believe so.

Also... if you want to "install" other creatures via .png files, what directory to you "install" them in?  Does it just go in:

C:\Documents and Settings\<User Name>\My Documents\My Spore Creations\Creatures

Yep, you just save them into that folder.

[jsalemi]

You can browse the Sporepedia pretty much anyway you like.  I've searched it on creator name and on a particular item name (or portion -- do a search on 'DRM' on the Sporepedia for lulz. ).

Suckrot and install count are two different issues, since the install count is stored on EA servers, and SecuROM is on your local machine.  
So no, you won't reduce the install count by using a no-cd.exe -- you just won't have SecuROM installed. (This is at least how I understand it -- do note that I arrr' playing strictly offline ).  However, using a no-cd.exe is not the same as being arr'ed -- you can have a purchased copy and use the no-cd.exe, but if you use a arr'ed copy, you don't have a legitimate key, and the EA servers will reject your fake key.

As for the difference between on and offline, you got it. And yes, you store the downloaded .png in the proper sub-directory of My Spore Creations.  So creatures go in \Creatures, vehicles (including spaceships, I believe, though they may go in \UFOs) go in \Vehicles, and so on.

[rufio]

ETA: If you have any faith in a wikipedia article of disputed neutrality, there is some info about it here.  I'm not claiming it's necessarily accurate, but it's more or less what I would have said if I had more time and gave more of a shit.

"Disputed neutrality:" so you are asking us to rely on something less reliable than regular wikipedia? And you don't give a shit? Dude, this is Retardo Land. If you don't want to back up your arguments with solid evidence, don't start with us.

I'm not asking you to rely on it.  Wikipedia should not be used as "proof" for anything anyway.  I am asking you to read it and assume that that is generally along the lines of what I would have said.  I don't doubt that as a scholarly reference I am probably less reliable than Wikipedia.

Dude, that is an incredibly stupid argument.  You might as well say that the transition to larger brains was a bad, thing because for hundreds of millions of years our remote ancestors had brains the size of a walnut, and that can't be said at all for brains of our current size.

For someone without your weird love affair for hunting gatherer societies, this is actually an argument for agriculture, because it took only a few thousand years for a different method to completely replace something that had been in place for millions of years.

Actually, that's precisely the point I was trying to make; farming cultures never fully replaced hunter-gatherer cultures.  Also, consider this: human beings were all hunter-gatherers for 2 million years.  After only 12 thousand years of farming, we have pretty much decimated the ecosystem.  How's that for natural selection?

No, but you apparently have.  You think that evolution is about what you think is "easier," when in fact it's about having more babies.

Evolution is about survival of the species.  Too many babies means that everyone dies from starvation.  Overpopulation is already becoming a problem in some places.

Agriculture would not have yielded more food than hunter-gathering until it had been in practice for some time.

That's the statement that made it clear to me that I was dealing with yet another weird fanatic with a fetish for hunter-gatherers.

Dude, I just think it's interesting to think about how cultures with a completely different way of life would live.  I already have plenty of city-building games if I decide I want to play another one of those.

This sort of argument belongs in Retardo Land.

Good thing that's where it is, then.

Is that your response to every game that involves the advance of civilization?

I actually don't own any.  Not because they offend my anthropological sensibilities, but because I never found the premise of building up a civilation just like ours and fighting wars very likely to be fun.  I thought Spore might be different.  I was wrong.

I don't know of any hunter-gatherer societies that have moved beyond the tribal stage.

Agriculture, as I understand it, is what allowed society to become more highly organized with a greater division of labor among different trades. Producing food more efficiently meant that everyone didn't have to be involved in food production, thus paving the way for art/science/government/what-have-you. In other words, "a civilization." Something larger, more organized, and more complex than tribal society.

Sure.  And the way of life we call civilization is also interesting too.  I'm not saying we should all go back and be hunter-gatherers, just that the hunter-gatherers have a way of life that I think would be fun to play around with, and that the neolithic revolution was a bit of a fluke at the time.

When everyone is busy hunting/gathering, they don't have time to build a civilization--only for living from day to day.

Actually, hunter-gathering societies actully had more free time.  What caused civilization as we know it to come into existence was the division of labor that you addressed before and the fact that there was an upper-crust that didn't have to do much of anything.  The hunter-gatherer societies were generally very egalitarian, so the complex social structures never developed.

This is why there's a theory that agricultural societies are what drove the hunter-gatherers to extinction.

They have not.  Read the thread.

It would be cool if you could play as a tribal society and try to survive as the rest of the world moves past you to the civ stage, explores space, etc. Now that would be a real (if somewhat depressing) challenge! Basically, you'd have to find a place that's extremely abundant with life, very biodiverse, and difficult for the "civilized world" to reach. Either that, or a place so far on the fringes that no one wants it, with a climate so unsuitable to agriculture that specialized knowledge of hunting/gathering would give you a relative advantage.

See, that's what I'm saying.  That would be fun.

[jsalemi]

On a different note, it looks like Spore hacks/mods are starting to appear -- saw something on xspore about a mod that removes the automatic symmetry when adding body parts.

(Edited to correct for brain fart...)

[Solowren]

we have pretty much decimated the ecosystem.

We've pretty much reduced it by one tenth, eh?

DECIMATE: I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Soggy Fox]

Yay for mods - maybe we can find one with a less masculine soundpack for tribal and beyond - my creatures are laying eggs and look like females....for crissakes.

[Gus Smedstad]

Actually, hunter-gathering societies actully had more free time.

OK, I'm done.  Arguing with weirdo fanatics who will Make Up Stuff to suit their beliefs is only interesting for a short time.

 - Gus

[rufio]

we have pretty much decimated the ecosystem.

We've pretty much reduced it by one tenth, eh?

DECIMATE: I don't think it means what you think it means.

"My knowledge of Latin Roots.  Let me show you it."

OK, I'm done.  Arguing with weirdo fanatics who will Make Up Stuff to suit their beliefs is only interesting for a short time.

Saying something that anyone can find out in first-semester anthro is fanatical?  Ok.