SimSheet (a sim-tracking program) [Now with Aspiration and LTW tracking!]

[Avalikia]

I'd really like to test this, but I'm apparently having a problem finding the right version of SimPe.  I have 0.72.01 and that is the newest version I can find anywhere, and I literally looked all over the place.

[Mootilda]

You probably need to sign up for the debug version of SimPE in the ambertation forum.  This version isn't available without a specific request to access the Development / QA forum at http://simpeforum.ambertation.de/forum/  Just follow the instructions.

[rufio]

Yes, what Mootilda said is correct.

Anyway, my break from this project was a little longer than I expected it to be, but it was good to spend a month or so doing actual modding, as it has given me some important perspective - even though C++ can be a pain sometimes, it is a breath of fresh air compared to the language that EA decided to write TS2 in!

I have returned bearing some minor but important bugfixes, and this really is the last time I am going to update before revamping the aging system.

Changelog:

Code:

2/6/09
Really really last 0.5 update.
- Fixed issue where clicking on sims with no set aspiration caused an infinite
loop.
- Changed simList storage back into indexed lists because iterators drive me
crazy.
- Fixed issue where adding babies by townies did not actually work anymore.
- Sim descriptions now wrap.

Please redownload from the original link in the first post.  I am leaving the "On day X" feature broken, because it will need to be redone when I redo aging anyway and it is not a show-stopping problem.

[Inge]

Avalikia, I have just approved you to the QA group.

[tabbs]

How do you install this program?

And how do you find sims? Do you have to manually put the information in?

[rufio]

How do you install this program?

Just download from the link that mentions the executable, and unzip the zipfile into a subfolder somewhere on your computer.  There will be a .exe file in there, which you just run like any other executable file.

And how do you find sims? Do you have to manually put the information in?

You'll need to install the latest SimPE QA (you can get it from the QA forum at http://simpeforum.ambertation.de/forum/ after requesting access there).  This will install in the same way as SimSheet.  All you have to do then is start SimSheet, enter the path to where you installed the SimPE QA in settings, and then go to Manage Sim Lists -> (select your neighborhood) -> Import Sims.

[CatOfEvilGenius]

Rufio, thank you for making the source for this project available, especially since it's in C++.  I know there are other sim package processing code tarballs out there, but most are in tcl or C# or something else I'm too lazy to port or learn.  I know, that's not how I should be making design decisions, but I do.   I am curious, now that you've spent much time on this project, what you think of the decision to write it in C++?  Would you go that route again, or would you try to use some existing tcl or C# libraries?  For apps such as this, that don't do lots of involved computations, does it matter much whether you make something that's compiled or interpreted?

This app is far preferable to my current system of covering my desk with scribbled sim geneologies, histories, plans, and rotation charts.  It also has the added bonus that it can't be eaten by my cats and dogs, or destroyed by spilled tea.  If I get through my RL and Sims2 projects and actually play the game again, I'll use this and let you know if I run into any problems.  However, I will probably hold out for the version that can handle variable life stage lengths (from platinum aspiration, elixir of life, etc.)  I've read the app description and several pages of discussion, and I don't think that's out yet.  If it is, clearly, I don't read carefully enough.

[rufio]

Well, first of all, this program does not actually read package files - that is why I had to have it run SimPE and generate an output file.

I wrote this in C++ because it was the first computer language I learned, and the one I was most familiar with.  I've also done a lot of work with Qt (which is a C++ API) and felt pretty comfortable working with it.  I really don't know much about C#, or the relative efficiency of interpreted vs. compiled languages when it comes to the kinds of things SimSheet does, which is largely array-based list management, with some more complicated recursive functions in the family tab.  A lot of it is actually GUI, which is taken care of by Qt classes, and I don't know the nitty gritty details of that.

The only variable life stage lengths SimSheet can't handle now are the ones induced by hacks - there are events for having sims drink elixer, cowplant milk, kibble of life, etc., and there is no set length for the Elder lifestage - the sim will just keep getting older until you tell the program that it has died.  You can also set ages manually if something gets messed up for some reason.

Thanks for testing this out.

[CatOfEvilGenius]

The only variable life stage lengths SimSheet can't handle now are the ones induced by hacks

Yay!  Bad Cat, read more carefully next time!  No biscuit!

Your app reads CSV spreadsheet data generated by the SimPE QA, if I understand correctly?  Had there been a C++ library that lets you read package files and spits out sim objects would that have been useful to you?  Something with a sim class with get* functions that give you age, lifetime want, etc?  Or do you prefer CSV data?  Would a standalone app that reads sim packages and spits out CSV been useful to you?  So that you wouldn't need to rely on SimPE?  You used Windows, but I'm thinking that might have been handy for Mac developers.  Not that I have anything like that, but I am curious if there's a need / desire for it.

You asked a while back if people want this just for PCs or for all sims, so if you still want input, I just care about PCs.  I have so many of them that they and their descendants usually take over most of the 'hood.

[rufio]

Your app reads CSV spreadsheet data generated by the SimPE QA, if I understand correctly?

Yes.

Had there been a C++ library that lets you read package files and spits out sim objects would that have been useful to you?

Yes; but if its only purpose was to read packages and create sim objects, then there wouldn't be much use for it outside of SimSheet, which means I would probably wind up writing it myself.  I'm going to be gutsy and say that I probably could do it, with the information online about the format of the character files packages and some experimenting, but it would be a lot of work and SimPE already exists.  You're right that not relying on SimPE would be better for Mac users, but I believe that jfade is also working on a cross-platform package editor in Java.  Making a complete package-editor that can open all kinds of packages and deal with all kinds of resources still seems to be a better option and designing a character-file-reading program that is only useful with SimSheet.

[talysman]

There's a C++ DBPF package library over in Bowels of Trogdor. Don't know if there are any package format changes since the last time this was updated. There's also a set of tools for command-line modders (dz utils) which will let you list or extract data from a package. Those might be useful for you.

[CatOfEvilGenius]

There's a C++ DBPF package library over in Bowels of Trogdor. Don't know if there are any package format changes since the last time this was updated. There's also a set of tools for command-line modders (dz utils) which will let you list or extract data from a package. Those might be useful for you.

I'm familiar with that C++ code, I should have linked to it.  I use the compress / decompress routines from it, they're full of win.  However, it does not do a lot of resource parsing.  For example, given a TXTR resource, it will not tell you the image format or size.  Given a TXMT, it will not tell you what properties are in it.  Given a sim, it won't tell you their name, age, gender, etc.  So if you're writing an app that needs such details (or an app that changes them), that library is not quite as useful as it could be.  It leaves byte soup level parsing up to the programmer.  The C# code that SimPE's made of does that kind of resource parsing, but it's C#, not C++.  (rufio - I have TXTR and TXMT resource parsing C++ code, but not anything that deals with sims.)

[rufio]

There's a C++ DBPF package library over in Bowels of Trogdor. Don't know if there are any package format changes since the last time this was updated. There's also a set of tools for command-line modders (dz utils) which will let you list or extract data from a package. Those might be useful for you.

Yes, I have used that first for compression/decompression, but like Cat said it is not very helpful for higher-level stuff.

(rufio - I have TXTR and TXMT resource parsing C++ code, but not anything that deals with sims.)

jfade may be interested in that, as he still seems to need handlers for those in his project.  It's Java, but Java is very similar to C++.

[uchuujin]

Baaaa!!  Thanks for this; I like to have huge, complicated(family-wise) neighborhoods and also like to keep track of everything.  You've no idea how much time I've wasted using outliner to organize my sims... nevermind family trees!!

I'm also horrible at programming....

I'll try it out on my PC.  Thanks again. 

[rufio]

Baaaa!!  Thanks for this; I like to have huge, complicated(family-wise) neighborhoods

No problem - could you post a picture of your family tab and let me know how accurate it is?

[uchuujin]

No problem - could you post a picture of your family tab and let me know how accurate it is?

I'll do that.    I'm only on the third generation, though.. but I have about to seven planned. 

[Gwenke]

I downloaded the two archives and extracted them to the same folder. When I try to start the exe, it says application cannot start because QtCore4.dll cannot be located. Where do I get that, or what else am I missing?

[rufio]

Yeah, a little bit ago I changed the way the zips were organized to save space.  If you're downloading for the first time, you also need the Qt Libraries zipfile, which is now a separate download so that people who are just updating don't have to redownload all the libraries.  In the first post it says:

Edit 3/21/09:  Because the dlls are fucking huge, I have moved them to a separate zipfile.  If you simply want to download the latest version, just get it from the above (now refreshingly smaller) links.  If you are downloading this program for the first time, you will also need the Qt Libraries:
Get them here (4.4 MB)
Put them in the same directory as the executable.

Click on the link that says "Get them here".

[Gwenke]

I should have said not only that I downloaded the TWO archives but also that I downloaded BOTH zips like three times. The QT libraries zip has 3 files (executablename.sh, libQtCore.so.4, libQtGui.so.4).  The program demands a QtCore4.dll from me.

[rufio]

Oops, I seem to have mixed up the Windows and Linux libraries.  Try this instead. 

[zceepy]

Tiny thing I came across: The 'new sim by ex townie feature' when you select an ex townie becoming a new sim by marriage to an old sim it doesn't actually marry the two sims. The new sim is created fine and in the right household but they don't show up as being related in the relationships tab

[rufio]

Thanks for reporting it - I'll check it out when I'm in the right OS again.

ETA:  You're right, I wrote that event a long time ago, before I actually implemented the family ties, so the "got married to" text is just decorative.  The program isn't really in a state where it can be compiled right now, though, so it'll have to wait until 0.6.

[nacharlotte]

will this work on mac? i have a pc which i play on and then a mac which i would prefer to use if possible and enter the data myself doe it have to use sim pe?? so many questions??


thanks charlotte

[Gwenke]

I have installed and tested and played with this now. Thank you for making it so far, as I read the thread, I could see it was not easy.
I understand you are working on a major upgrade.
Hopefully, it will move away from rotation-based updates to updating directly from SimPE's CSV file (especially showing age data without any user input).
This being the case, user-defined comment fields, which don't get updated automatically, seem really important. Maybe there could be more of them, and made more prominent. They could be used to jot down things like Day Born, Marriage on 2nd Sunday, etc.
It would also be nice if these notes, as well as other data (e.g. aspiration, LTW, highest traits, highest skills, OTH, job...) could be set to appear in the master list of sims in the first tab. A print-out of this tab would be the most useful reference during play.

On your specific plans:
"- Possibly add a Genetics tab, where you can keep track of sim genetics and calculate possible results from breeding two sims.  This would all have to be user-entered, since it doesn't seem possible to get this information out of SimPE."

It would be a shame if SimPE could not export sims' DNA information, which it certainly has. Have you asked? Of course it could still only export family numbers, not names like 'Enayla's dark skin'. But it would still be better to have that and to make our own lists of CC family numbers than having to type all genetic data for all sims. In the distant future, maybe users could even teach the program what each family number corresponds to?

Issues with the current version: 
Unchecking Townies in the filter table does not remove them from the list of sims.
Unchecking any option in the filter table sets the list of sims back to be alphabetically sorted by Sim name.
Clicking on Update adds a new entry to sims' Aspiration tab (but Update would be obsolete anyway).

And since you asked for requests... Well. It would be cool to include all the rest of sim data as well. That is, personality traits, skills, badges, interests, hobbies, hobby club memberships.

As a first-time user, I think the layout could be more intuitive, like grouping tabs according to whether they pertain to the sim selected in the first tab. Also, the Achievement+Update=Events tab could be pre-sorted to show only the selected sim's data.

Sorry for being long, and thank you all the work you did on this so far.

[rufio]

will this work on mac? i have a pc which i play on and then a mac which i would prefer to use if possible and enter the data myself doe it have to use sim pe?? so many questions??


thanks charlotte

There is currently no executable file for mac, but if you are willing to download and install a bunch more stuff and familiar with command lines and how to work stuff on macs, you could make one from the source code.  Are you interested in doing that?

Hopefully, it will move away from rotation-based updates to updating directly from SimPE's CSV file

I am not planning on getting rid of updates, but it is already possible to re-import from SimPE.  If something's not working with that, let me know and I'll fix it.

(especially showing age data without any user input).

What do you mean?  Importing should result in correct age data, except in the case of elders, but this is an issue with SimPE not providing all the information, and there is nothing I can do about it.

This being the case, user-defined comment fields, which don't get updated automatically, seem really important. Maybe there could be more of them, and made more prominent. They could be used to jot down things like Day Born, Marriage on 2nd Sunday, etc.

I think updating should update the comment fields from individual sims in-game to "notes" for the sims in the first tab, although I don't use the in-game comment fields, so it might be broken without my knowing it.  Are you saying you want more specific fields for Day Born, Date Married, etc.?  I could probably add something where you can specify what fields you want in Settings.

It would also be nice if these notes, as well as other data (e.g. aspiration, LTW, highest traits, highest skills, OTH, job...) could be set to appear in the master list of sims in the first tab. A print-out of this tab would be the most useful reference during play.

The problem is that it will start to get pretty cluttered if I try to add everything into the first tab.  If what you really want is a print-out, though, I can add a feature that will export a more detailed report to CSV, which can then be opened in excell and printed.

It would be a shame if SimPE could not export sims' DNA information, which it certainly has. Have you asked? Of course it could still only export family numbers, not names like 'Enayla's dark skin'. But it would still be better to have that and to make our own lists of CC family numbers than having to type all genetic data for all sims. In the distant future, maybe users could even teach the program what each family number corresponds to?

I have asked, and Inge has said it would not be possible.  Even if it did export the numbers, I don't think it would know if the genes were dominant or recessive, which means you would have to enter that information manually in order to correctly generate possible results.  I think this may be an issue of efficiency; you'll notice that SimPE also does not export paranormal flags, and that you have to enter them yourself on the import dialog - this is because (Inge says) it is way too much work for SimPE to delve into the individual tokens and get at that data, and it is simply much more efficient for the user to enter them.  I am probably paraphrasing this badly, since I don't know a lot about how character files are actually formatted.

Issues with the current version:

Thanks for letting me know.

Unchecking Townies in the filter table does not remove them from the list of sims.

Noted; will fix.

Unchecking any option in the filter table sets the list of sims back to be alphabetically sorted by Sim name.

This is because refiltering the list means that it has to be completely erased and recompiled, due to the fact that Qt apparently fails at making their (much nicer) filtering feature incompatible with Windoze.  I might be able to get the list to remember how it was sorted before it does that though.

Clicking on Update adds a new entry to sims' Aspiration tab (but Update would be obsolete anyway).

Yeah, I think the Aspiration tab is a little borked in 0.5, although I think it should only add extraneous aspiration entries when applying related updates (e.g. changing aspirations, moving in a sim and assigning them an aspiration, etc.)  I originally did this so that you could track a sim's aspiration over time, but I'm beginning to think that having multiple aspirations per sim is just introducing more borkage than it's worth, so it might just get axed.

And since you asked for requests... Well. It would be cool to include all the rest of sim data as well. That is, personality traits, skills, badges, interests, hobbies, hobby club memberships.

Personality traits was something I was thinking might go on the new Genetics tab, actually.  Skills and badges change frequently, though, and would be kind of a pain to track, at least if you were doing it manually, but SimPE does export skills at least, so it would be possible - I'll think about it.  I never really look at interests, to be honest (), but those could probably get recorded somewhere as well.  I don't have FT and don't know much about how hobbies work, but they would probably go with Aspirations.  What would you want to see in terms of hobby-tracking?

As a first-time user, I think the layout could be more intuitive, like grouping tabs according to whether they pertain to the sim selected in the first tab.

Well, I put them in an order that made sense to me - it might be possible to allow you to rearrange them, though.

Also, the Achievement+Update=Events tab could be pre-sorted to show only the selected sim's data.

Good idea, although there is still that bug where filtering that tab doesn't update the layout properly and there is a huge amount of blank space.

Sorry for being long, and thank you all the work you did on this so far.

No problem; thanks for the input.