You could meet Pescado in a dark alley with a suitcase full of cash, or...

[cwykes]

Am I really off track here?  I don't see how changing the mechanism for getting cash to Pes from paypal to Tshirts is going to solve the actual problem which is sending money from the US to Malaysia.  If the money ends up in the US by whatever means it's collected, you'll hit the same problem trying to transfer it to some random guy in Malaysia.

My suggestion ... talk to Paypal in advance i.e. NOW and ask how you can do it.  Taking the money and then trying to transfer it it is the wrong way round and you can see why it raises crime/terrorism flags.  If the US banking laws are tougher than elsewhere, then maybe you need someone in the UK/europe/Australia/wherever works to own the paypal account that receives the money.

As to paypal fees.........  You pay a onetime fee to convert your account to one that lets you receive payments from credit card.  Once you've done that.... what's the problem?  You could encourage people to use their bank accounts to pay, but I'd rather not put my bank details on paypal.  I'm use my credit card on paypal - better protection for me I reckon.

I might buy a Tshirt, but I can't see me wearing it in public, and someone is stuck making and dispatching the things which is all too much work surely?

[Hecubus]

Once we have the money in a bank account, it can be wired to Malaysia; this is what we did to pay for Cheezeserver in Decembe 2007. We set up that account in July of last year and got the last of the money PayPal owed us in December, in time for the bill. I figure, if we have multiple options, with money coming in a variety of ways, we won't have a large sum stuck with PayPal.

[FourCats]

Why doesn't Pescado just print his own cash?

[lemmiwinks]

A real life MATY Trogdor shirt. I would buy it in a heartbeat.

[Kazzandra]

I like the idea of MATY+PMBD merchandise as a side-effort, but I would also like to be able to send direct monies, as well. Once I know I've done my part, merchandise would be good. However, I don't want the price to be so padded that I can't buy but maybe one mug. It would take me back to being a child at the local book fair, surrounded by rich kids buying overpriced books that they'll never read, and me counting out change to buy an eraser 

[Mirelly]

I think you're confused about just who profits from a CP store, Mirelly, if you want to sell your own mugs to "profit" from them.

CP buys the imprintable products and mails and deals with customer service for you. The cost of the plain tees is still on a par with plain tees bought in most department stores. Some other items, like mousepads, are admittedly higher. So they absorb the product cost, printing materials and labor costs, and S&H costs for you, and every penny over the base price you mark the item up, you keep. CP, as a business, makes a fair profit from providing a service, and the storeholder makes a fair profit for basically designing an image, sticking it on a webpage, and then doing nothing else but collecting a check if it gets bought.

Your plan sounds like "Mirelly buys a mug, tries to compete with a huge company that can buy in bulk and do its own printing, ships stuff out, handles customer gripes, and earns a few pennies for the unnecessary effort." A joke, perhaps, but it implies that you think CP is ripping you off somehow.

I did "sell imprinted stuff" as a business pre-Internet, and it is a pain in the butt to do solo, and a hassle to deal with mailing and returns. I am thrilled to sell stuff where all I need to do is make a design people presumably want to buy, cash the checks, and then wander off to do more interesting creative projects while the accounting and business-related shit is handled by a team of hundreds and not just me.

I appreciate the response. But I do think CP is a rip off. This is an example of a bit of CP merchandise. Even at the most realistic of exchange rates (which recognises what the currency is actually worth in its local market place), a $16 mug ( £8 in my money) is outrageous. Hell's teeth. The standard (non-international) shipping is more than I would pay for a bog-standard, fired-clay mug. CP describes the mug as "ceramic" so we have no idea if it is high-quality, chip-resistant "stoneware" or the even higher quality "bone-chine" ... let alone porcelain! (and for £8 quid I could 4 plain white porcelain mugs in either my local Woolworth or my local Asda).

Pescado has described the CP "markup" as unattractive (I forget the exact adjective). I don't need to create a CP account to know that CP is reaping the lion's share of the profit on the merch. That's my definition of a rip-off (and a rip-off doesn't have to be criminal or malevolent to be labelled as such ... an inefficient business' high prices are as much worthy of the term as outright fraud). I am grateful that you acknowledged my comments were intended to be taken lightly, but I do not distance myself from their broad sentiment. Running an online retailing business is a serious operation. Companies like Cafe Press cannot afford to give their inestimable hidden benefits away.

As for teeshirts. I've never visited the US, but it is apocryphal in many parts of Europe that the US is fabulous wonderland of cheap clothing. With current exchange rates this applies more so as a friend recently returned from Ca confirmed. In the UK this high quality teeshirt is sold in every major city for a mere £5  (<$10). Do you seriously want to suggest that CPs $20+ teeshirts are economically priced to the advantage of the emptor? As always the fool is soonest parted from his money. I thought MATY had no room for fools.

I ask again. What the fuck is wrong is opening an international bank account?

[Nadine Blackstone]

It couldn't hurt to set up a PO box; less risky than meeting Pescado in the dark alley, anyway. Almost every penny goes to the cause.
Setting up a Cafe Press account couldn't hurt. Who doesn't love receiving a check without having to exert anything more than initial effort? Who isn't imagining their mom in  a MOAR FIGHT t-shirt? But as a primary source of funds? Too much cash diverted into the wrong pocket.

[Zazazu]

As for teeshirts. I've never visited the US, but it is apocryphal in many parts of Europe that the US is fabulous wonderland of cheap clothing. With current exchange rates this applies more so as a friend recently returned from Ca confirmed. In the UK this high quality teeshirt is sold in every major city for a mere £5  (<$10). Do you seriously want to suggest that CPs $20+ teeshirts are economically priced to the advantage of the emptor? As always the fool is soonest parted from his money. I thought MATY had no room for fools.

That is in no way indicative of standard t-shirt prices in the US, especially not of novelty tees. For an example, Old Navy is on the mid-to-low end of price for graphic tees, and theirs cost $15. This seems to jive with CafePress, where prices for tees I noticed ranged from $15-$22. Standard.

As for them taking a lot of the "profit" margin - Doi! They are doing the lion's share of the work.

Anyways, I would not send cash or checks physically anywhere. You're just asking for it to get intercepted. So no PO Box por moi.

[J. M. Pescado]

You realize standard t-shirt prices are ALREADY outrageously gouging, considering that a t-shirt costs less than a buck to make?

[Solowren]

You realize standard t-shirt prices are ALREADY outrageously gouging, considering that a t-shirt costs less than a buck to make?

This reminds me of something my manager said the other day:

"We sell a large sausage and olive pizza for, what, 19 bucks? Those things cost $3 to make. Tops."

[V]

Cafe Press seems like a fun idea, but I don't think it is very sensible for this project. We all want MATY merchandise so much that we aren't thinking of the actual goal.

The goal here is to raise $2500 as quickly and painlessly as possible. Since Paypal does not allow for anonymous accounts it is clearly not the answer. Since Cafe Press requires spending more money than necessary to reach the goal, thereby making the goal less attainable than more so, it does not sound like a good answer either.

I am sure that there must be some way to receive payments via the internet anonymously or even just under a pseudonym, but so far I haven't found it. Unless someone else has already found the definitive anonymous online payment system, I think that the best solution would be to send money orders to a P.O. Box. The tricky part here is deciding what name to put in the Pay To: section. For that matter we could leave that bit blank, but that is a whole new risk that would have to be weighed.

Once the money is gathered and digitalized it should be sendable from any location to Malaysia.



That is my strong opinion. Also I am tired of hearing about Cafe Press when Pescado has already and repeatedly shot the idea down.

[eevilcat]

Sorry V, but that is a totally US-centric view of how to pay. The cost of getting a US dollar money order in any country is prohibitive ($15+ in the UK) and then you have to add the cost of international postage. Paypal may not be ideal but at least they allow for relatively easy international money transfers and MATY regulars are based all over the world.

[jolrei]

Paypal is still looking like the front-runner option, just for convenience of payment.  I think this is important in a fundraising exercise, such as this.  Choosing a difficult method of payment, one with lots of extra steps, or one that costs extra to implement (i.e. money orders with foreign exchange charges) likely translates into loss of potential donors.

That leaves the getting-the-money-from-Paypal issue and the Malaysia-doesn't-like-Paypal issue.  Could MATY be set up as an entity to collect the money.  Unfortunately, the only way I can think right now to get the money to Malaysia would be to have a designated MATY person who would get the money from Paypal and transfer it by money order to Malaysia (if Malaysia really doesn't like Paypal).  Can it be done without having someone be "known"?

[Theo]

I ask again. What the fuck is wrong is opening an international bank account?

Perhaps because he'd be forced to reveal his identity? Then maybe he needs a figuredhead, perhaps bribing a local bum with MATY mugs, and then use his data.

[mildlydisguised]

I prefer the paypal route to the money order route.  Money orders penalise non-US people as we have to pay the exchange rate and increased postage.

I was happy with paypal last time although I ended up having to request my money back as Bluesoup neglected to tell me whether my payment had been stopped even after I'd asked her to check a number of times.

I agree with what Cwykes said about checking with paypal what we have to do to not get the transfer to Malaysia impounded.  The thing is if the money is being sent to a Malaysian email address that is easily traced to a company registered to provide server services then I can't see where the problem is.  Unless of course we are sending it to someterroristguy@malaysia.com in which case they are probably fairly justified. 

The only other option that I can see is that we pay into a MATY fund set up by the malaysian server itself.  Unless of course they are as dodgy as hell.

Which brings me to my last point, if we do have a designated MATYian to co-ordinate the paying, who will that be.  From the tone of the thread it sounds as though it is going to be Hecubus, is this right?

[Mirelly]

I ask again. What the fuck is wrong is opening an international bank account?

Perhaps because he'd be forced to reveal his identity? Then maybe he needs a figuredhead, perhaps bribing a local bum with MATY mugs, and then use his data.

I didn't say that Pescado has to open it.

[V]

Sorry V, but that is a totally US-centric view of how to pay. The cost of getting a US dollar money order in any country is prohibitive ($15+ in the UK) and then you have to add the cost of international postage. Paypal may not be ideal but at least they allow for relatively easy international money transfers and MATY regulars are based all over the world.

Actually, I was thinking that people in different countries could send money orders in their own currency and they can be converted after received by the collector of monies. Then any expense would be absorbed by the receiver of funds who would just take the money order to the local bank to get it converted. Or is that something that cannot be done?

I do agree that it is always better if fundraising is as simple as clicking a few buttons, but it is not going to be easy to find an online payment system that allows for anonymity from either side. For some reason they seem to think that "anonymous" = "doing something illegal"

[cassblonde]

I will cast my vote for money orders/checks but then I am only in Canada so the exchange isn't too horrid. When you have a box & name to send it to let me know.

Cass

[Assmitten]

This is starting to seem overly complicated.

[rohina]

Can we have a range of options? Because it seems like we need donations for a goal with reasonable rapidity, but over time the Zazzle/CP might make enough to cover a goodly proportion of the costs for the next payment cycle.

I'm in favour of the money order to the PO box, because PayPal sucks donkey balls.

[Assmitten]

Can we have a range of options? Because it seems like we need donations for a goal with reasonable rapidity, but over time the Zazzle/CP might make enough to cover a goodly proportion of the costs for the next payment cycle.

I'm in favour of the money order to the PO box, because PayPal sucks donkey balls.

It's hard to find the proof, but there are always claims on the internet that Paypal is/was run by right wing Christians. I hate to think of money being funneled off to any of their interest groups, especially considering MATY's satanic agenda.

Kind of like all those urban hipster kids shopping at Urban Outfitters while the profits go off to support Rick Santorium and anti-gay legislation. DO YOU NO WUT YOUR LADYFIT JEANS ARE FUNDING, emoboi?

/crazy internet rant

[rohina]

V, Queen of all that is sensible, suggested the over-the-counter prepaid Visa card, apparently readily available in the US. Do the Malaysians take Visa? If so, could we not implement the money orders to the PO box, and then have the recipient purchase one of these cards and make the payment?

[mistymage]

I already posted at PMBD but I'll reiterate here.  I prefer PayPal but would do money order.  Last time this came up it was almost unanimous that CP was icky and that no one would touch branded stuff so to see it 180 from that stance is amusing.

I did a quick google search on anonymous online payment system and the first 2 hits might have info to help Hecubus and Pescado figure out how to transfer the large sums of money more easily.

[lemmiwinks]

This is starting to sound like "How to finance a revolution".

Not that that is a bad thing.

[jolrei]

Can we have a range of options? Because it seems like we need donations for a goal with reasonable rapidity, but over time the Zazzle/CP might make enough to cover a goodly proportion of the costs for the next payment cycle.

I'm in favour of the money order to the PO box, because PayPal sucks donkey balls.

It's hard to find the proof, but there are always claims on the internet that Paypal is/was run by right wing Christians. I hate to think of money being funneled off to any of their interest groups, especially considering MATY's satanic agenda.

Look, I'm willing to concede on the whole Paypal thing, but refuse to get lumped in with the right-wing Christians.  Can I be a Christian with a satanic agenda?  I'll vote money-orders if it helps.