Cloning an in game sim (in looks, mainly.)

[simsfreq]

It's bugged me for ages that sims can't have identical twin children and the only way you can create them is in CAS. So I am trying to find out if there is any way I can clone a born in game sim. It's easy enough to change the personality etc in SimPE so I'm not bothered about that, I just want to know if there is any way I can clone a sim, if necessary age them down to infant (or toddler as a workaround and not let them age until the cloned sim has caught up) and make them related to the original "twin".

There is an older thread related to sim cloning here but it is quite old so I decided to make a new one, as new EPs etc may have changed things. I gather for example in the FT version of SimPE you can't change interests. (which is going to put a large spanner in the works of one of my 'hoods.)

From that thread I see two ways of cloning the particular sim.

1. I could export them (As a baby? Or would I have to wait for toddler stage?) in SimSurgery, clone them in bodyshop, create the clone as an adult in CAS, move them in with their "real family" and then age down and tidy up the relationships.

I imagine this method would mean the clone's DNA (by this I mean recessive traits) would not match the original sim's. To be honest that wouldn't be a hugely big deal but it would be slightly annoying. Could I access the original sim's recessive DNA information and copy or manually set it for the clone?

2. I could zoom in really far on the baby and see what colour eyes, hair and skin tone it has, then create an adult in CAS with these genetics, move it in, age down (to toddler, unless there is a way to age down to infant.) and then use SimPE to copy the facial data of the original sim across to the clone, edit the recessive genes and set the clone (if I have to use a toddler) to have a 7-day lifestage so that they are at the same stage as their "twin".

3. I could force twins on the pregnancy before the baby is born, then save just before she pops the babies out and keep reloading the lot until they both get the same eye colour, hair colour and skin tone, and then copy the facial template of one of the proglets onto the other, like in option 2. This would solve the toddler/age problem, and I wouldn't even have to make them look identical until they got to the toddler age stage. The only problem with this is if it's fairly far down the line and there are a lot of genetics involved, it might take ages to get two babies with the same traits. Or is it possible to change hair/eye/skin colour in SimPE as well?

Any ideas or suggestions? And I know this is the wrong place to ask but I find the SimPE forums hard to understand - am I right in thinking that post-FT we can't change interests in SimPE at all? The site just says you can't save it in SDS, but (helpfully)! doesn't explain what SDS stands for and I can't work it out. If you can't answer this one no worries.

[Kazzandra]

I gather for example in the FT version of SimPE you can't change interests. (which is going to put a large spanner in the works of one of my 'hoods.)

I don't know. I've never tried. I just click on interest points in debug mode while in-game. You did know that you could do this, right?

I'd choose method one, by the way.

ETA: I was totally not helpful, was I? 

[Zazazu]

Warning: My idea here is probably only 50% to helpful

My thought is to apply plastic surgery to one spawn, changing just one feature super-slightly. Then use the tutorial floating around about making plastic surgery genetic. Make Baby 1's changes genetic, then use SimSurgery on Baby 2 from Baby 1's looks.

Make Baby 2's changes genetic by replacing those files extracted in the tutorial, etc. That's if SimsSurgery changes aren't already made genetic. I'm not sure about that. 

[jolrei]

I've only ever cloned adult sims or teens, never toddlers or babies.  The tutorial in the thread you linked would still be valid.  I thought interests were adjustable in the FT version of SimPE.  If you can't, as long as you're in debug mode, you can tweak interests directly in the game (just pull the sliders up and down as required).

You should be able to make genetics identical in SimPE as well as part of the simsurgery steps.  

MTS2 had a tutorial on changing sim appearance that might be helpful.  I'll try to dig up the link.  Using that, you could conceivably (bad pun) get your sims to have twins, and then plug the appearance genetics of one twin onto the other twin resulting in identical looking twins with the same parental genetics.  This sounds like the easiest method to me.  Then you just adjust personality points and interests in game or in SimPE, whichever is easiest.  Aggie may also still have the link to the tutorial in question.

[wow! Ninja'd by Zazazu - I think that may be the tutorial there.]

[simsfreq]

Now I feel like a spoon for not knowing you could change interests in debug mode.

To be fair I seem to remember ages ago in the base game trying to drag motive bars while in debug mode and it not working for some reason, (I was probably DOIN IT RONG) and I think my brain connected dragging things while in debug mode with L&P.

The older thread linked to a tutorial on MTS2 which explained how to clone a sim's appearance onto another sim, and now I have both tutorials I should be set - think I will probably end up experimenting before I let any technique loose on a proper family.

Thanks for the suggestions, anyway. I am a bit confused by zazazu's suggestion - I didn't think you could use plastic surgery on toddlers. Or would you age the toddler up and then down again? I have never used the plastic surgery machine so I'm not sure.

[jolrei]

If you simsurgery a sim's appearance onto another sim, there should be instructions for making the appearance changes genetic as well (there were in the tutorial I'm thinking of).  It's fairly straightforward - just can't recall the steps off the top of my head.

[Zazazu]

Thanks for the suggestions, anyway. I am a bit confused by zazazu's suggestion - I didn't think you could use plastic surgery on toddlers. Or would you age the toddler up and then down again? I have never used the plastic surgery machine so I'm not sure.

Yes. I told you I was only being 50% helpful. Age it to adult or teen or somesuch, change, then age down.

[SnootCB]

To be fair I seem to remember ages ago in the base game trying to drag motive bars while in debug mode and it not working for some reason, (I was probably DOIN IT RONG) and I think my brain connected dragging things while in debug mode with L&P.

For that to work you have to turn debug mode on in neighborhood view.  You can't drag anything if you just turn it on in the lot.

[jolrei]

I just have it set up in my userstartup.cheat file.  Debug mode is always on.  I don't see the point in having it off.  If the game errors, I want to see it so I can potentially fix it.

[simsfreq]

For that to work you have to turn debug mode on in neighborhood view.  You can't drag anything if you just turn it on in the lot.

Oh, that makes sense. I hadn't tried it since, but then I didn't used to play with it on most of the time and I usually do now. I need to get around to sorting my userstartup.cheat file anyway.

Thanks zazazu, I did get the general idea then

[Skadi]

There used to be a simpe add on that allowed you to do simsurgery from a saved bodyshop sim.  You would use simpe to export the sim, as a toddler, open bodyshop, clone the exported sim, make the changes you wanted (optionally flicking between ages to see what the spawn will look like), save the sim and then use this plug in to save the body shop sim over the in game toddler(s).

That's what I always did, I didn't want to have clones running around my hood, and Deleted2 is to much of a pain in the arse fro me.

[Doc Doofus]

The trick for making plastic surgery changes genetically inheritable (mentioned above) should do the trick.

You might have to wait until the baby grows up to at least toddler, because I don't think infants have LXNR facial structure files.

Anyway, here goes on how you can do this. 

1. Find the Sim whose face you would like to clone in SimPe.  Then, in the plug-in view, click on Other, then Open File to open the Sim's personal file.

2. In the Sim's file, you should see in the resource list an item that says Facial Structure, then LxNR.  If there is more than one, use the one with instance number 2.  Right click on that Facial Structure, and choose Save to the desktop.

3. Reopen your neighborhood again in SimPe.

4.  Find a Sim you want to change so it will look like the one you were dealing with in step 1, above.  Click Other, then Open File, to open that Sim's file.

5. Go down the resource list looking for the item that says Facial Structure LxNR.  If you have never done plastic surgery on this Sim, then there should only be one.  (Otherwise, do the next step to both of them).

6. Right click on that Facial Structure, and choose Replace.  When it asks for the name of the file, choose from the file you saved on the desktop earlier.  There will be one file (with a long name) ending in .simpe, and another in .xml.  USE THE ONE THAT ENDS IN .SIMPE. 

--- Side note ---

You can also do this from males to females and vice versa.  The interesting difference being that you will see what those same face genetics would look like on a member of the opposite sex.  It won't give a male the face of a female, but it will let you see what your male Sim would have looked like if he had the same genetics.  I have done this many times to fugly Maxis-made townie males that were on the verge of becoming fathers, so his progeny would have a better chance of looking good.

[J. M. Pescado]

If the sim has 2 LXNRs, you should delete the second one. instance 1 is the "real" one.

[myskaal]

I'd like to interject that, at least in my game, identical sim twins born in game do in fact exist. Of the 2 sets of twins I've had born in my game (yes. 2 sets. in all these years) one of them *was* an identical pair. Two boys, exactly the same features/looks and exactly the same astrological sign and personality points. The only difference was in their interests. And they were born after rerandomizing with the lot debugger.

Unfortunately that set was born in a neighborhood I did not save when SP3 blew up my comp and forced me to reformat so I have no proof.


But it happened I swear!

[Zazazu]

Without pictures it is all lies!
I've had extremely near-identical twins before. They had just the slightest variation on the mouth, but everything else was the same. This was way back at basegame or basegame + NL, as it was on my laptop.

[maxon]

Without pictures it is all lies!
I've had extremely near-identical twins before. They had just the slightest variation on the mouth, but everything else was the same. This was way back at basegame or basegame + NL, as it was on my laptop.

Yeah - I've had that too.  Horace and Henry Vaughan, born in game 2005, about to get married.  I play really slowly - a big neighbourhood and a lot of sims really slowly.  I do have pictures.

[Roux]

Without pictures it is all lies!
I've had extremely near-identical twins before. They had just the slightest variation on the mouth, but everything else was the same. This was way back at basegame or basegame + NL, as it was on my laptop.

Yeah - I've had that too.  Horace and Henry Vaughan, born in game 2005, about to get married.  I play really slowly - a big neighbourhood and a lot of sims really slowly.  I do have pictures.

I do hope they're marrying other sims, and not each other. 

[Zazazu]

Without pictures it is all lies!
I've had extremely near-identical twins before. They had just the slightest variation on the mouth, but everything else was the same. This was way back at basegame or basegame + NL, as it was on my laptop.

Yeah - I've had that too.  Horace and Henry Vaughan, born in game 2005, about to get married.  I play really slowly - a big neighbourhood and a lot of sims really slowly.  I do have pictures.

Oddly, I'm pretty sure my near-identicals were Vaughans as well.

[maxon]

I do hope they're marrying other sims, and not each other. 

Smirk - wait, I hadn't thought of that .... brilliant

[Slymenstra]

I use Doc's SimPe method all the time.  I also have several of my favorite sims DNA saved in a folder so if the game makes a townie/NPC/club person I can change their DNA to something I know I like.

But remember like Pescado said, if there are 2 choices in the facial DNA the 1st instance is their DNA and the 2nd is their Facelift(not genetic).  Just export face 2 and replace face 1.

I couldn't live without this!

[Doc Doofus]

Yup, use face 2.  Pescado said that face 1 is "the real one," meaning that it is the one that particular Sim had before a face lift. But if you have done plastic surgery on your model sim, you probably didn't like the original face.  So export instance 2, if there is one.

[Lum]

I've also had a pair of naturally identical twins. Even the personalities and sign were nearly the same, if not identical, before I randomized them. I went out of my way to give them different haircuts too, and maybe different eyebrows.